Sala plane found

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:28 pm

http://news.sky.com/story/emiliano-sala ... d-11627529" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Claretuk · Post by **Claretuk** » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:30 pm

This morning apparently, both families have been informed..

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:40 pm

Looking at MarineTraffic.com it appears, based on the search path and current location of Geo Ocean III (Air Accident Investigation Ship that the media are naming as the ship on the scene), that the plane went down almost bang on the west to east channel shipping lane. More northerly than I expected. Surprising the crash wasn’t witnessed given how busy that shipping lane is.

Tragic but hopefully some closure can now come of it.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:52 am

I doubt there'll be much closure in the short term because, whilst there are the obvious physical reasons why the plane might have come down - weather, mechanical failure etc. - there are a lot of questions regarding the flight plan, pilot, and arrangements for the flight which may take a while to shift through.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:25 pm

latest news is that one occupant is visible in the wreckage. I hope the families of both involved can get closure.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47118340" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:53 pm

you'd hope maybe both are in there once the wreckage can be fully inspected.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:57 pm

I hope answers are found as to why it crashed and I hope (unfortunately) all passengers are found so their familes can lay them to rest.

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:10 pm

Two Southampton fans detained today for making aeroplane gestures at the Cardiff fans during the tribute. Club say they will come down hard on them. Lifetime ban would satisfy me. They could have started a riot.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:26 pm

Absolute ****.

Southampton fans are a proper nasty bunch. God knows why either.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:33 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Absolute ****.

Southampton fans are a proper nasty bunch. God knows why either.

Tricky Trevor wrote:Two Southampton fans

Aclaret · Post by **Aclaret** » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:49 pm

Very sad news about Sala and the pilot, RIP to both of them.
We will never know how good, or bad Sala would have been for Cardiff but his loss seems to have give them a boost as if they are playing for him.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:54 pm

[quote="taio"][/quote]
Theres more...

theyre partial to a bit of disorder.... and always have been.And to be fair so were cardiff fans but they seem to have cleaned their act up recently.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:28 am

Seems Cardiff want to know all the facts before paying Nantes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47213352" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If they don't end up paying how can they ever claim he was their player, and treat him as such?

"Confirming the Nantes action, Dalman said: "Of course, if we are contractually obliged to pay them then of course we will. We are an honourable club.

"But if we are not - and there are some anomalies in that - then surely you would expect me as the chairman and guardian of this club's interests to look into that and hold our position. That is what we are doing."

I suspect they'll lose all sympathy if they are able to wriggle out of this one.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:05 am

It isn't worth the aggro not paying the money.

Yeah they can claim most of it back through insurance, but even if they can't, the worst thing they can do is wiggle out of paying.

Walt · Post by **Walt** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:17 am

By all means correct me if I'm missing something but seems pretty simple. Nantes sold the player and want their cash, nothing to do with them in terms of the tragic event that followed a few days after the deal was complete.

How can he suggest Cardiff might not be contractually obliged? I don't get it.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:19 am

Sala went to Cardiff for the photo shoot etc.. and signed. Then Cardiff let him go back to say goodbye to his friends and players at Nantes.

Seems like he was Cardiff's player to me. How can they wriggle out of it?

jedi_master · Post by **jedi_master** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:24 am

Cardiff bought the player, if they had not, he would in all likelihood have not have died.

What I mean by that is I highly doubt that Sala would have been on said flight from Nantes to Cardiff but for having signed for Cardiff a few days prior.

As a result, they owe the money. It would be very poor form to not pay when Nantes lost their best player purely because they had sold him to Cardiff City. That is not, at all, saying it is Cardiff's fault that the lad died, but that he did die because of the fact he had signed for them. It's a simple case, in my eyes.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:29 am

Walt wrote:By all means correct me if I'm missing something but seems pretty simple. Nantes sold the player and want their cash, nothing to do with them in terms of the tragic event that followed a few days after the deal was complete.

How can he suggest Cardiff might not be contractually obliged? I don't get it.

I can only assume that there were finer points of the contract that hadn’t been concluded. Maybe they hadn’t completed the registration of Sala?

Sutton-Claret · Post by **Sutton-Claret** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:42 am

Does anybody else think the media are being a bit naughty and trying to make a story out of a non-story here - they have to sell newspapers so why not massage the truth or invent the truth.

Goddy · Post by **Goddy** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:44 am

As I understand it, there's quite a bit which might be in doubt, for example, whether Sala had been registered as a player with the PL (and the implications of that). There's also something about the role of the agents in all this and, I suspect, some debate about if they've carried out their responsibilities.....er......responsibly.

I don't think Cardiff are looking to escape from their financial obligations and equally, I think Nantes think they've done everything properly. Might well end up in the courts more to decide at what point (and what has to be done to ensure) a player has moved from one club to another as much as ensuring whether monies should be paid or not.

Just my speculation, though.....

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:03 am

There's always bits of a contract that seem innocuous but can have a big effect under specific circumstances. For example, the sale contract may say it is not final until international clearance has been received, or it may say it is voided if international clearance is not received. The clauses would have identical effect for normal transfers, but in this circumstance could make a huge difference.

Though Cardiff's plans to have a "shrine" with all the scarves and stuff that was left, would be pretty weird if Cardiff's position was that he was never a Cardiff player. Maybe they'd have to send all the stuff back to Nantes?

Sproggy · Post by **Sproggy** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:06 am

Emiliano Sala. Forever a Bluebird*

*unless we can find a legal loophole that means we don't have to pay the transfer fee.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:28 am

Perhaps both clubs could decide ethics plays it's part here and split the transfer fee. Nantes receive half the transfer fee but Cardiff still pay half the fee for a player who can't play for them.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:04 pm

Cardiff are perfectly entitled not to pay if something voided the agreement before it was complete. Sala's sad demise can't change that. But, they'd best be on solid ground contractually. Otherwise they'll look like ****s if they're just haggling or bringing in irrelevancies like who booked the plane or whether they'd got round to completing some paperwork at their end.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:38 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Perhaps both clubs could decide ethics plays it's part here and split the transfer fee. Nantes receive half the transfer fee but Cardiff still pay half the fee for a player who can't play for them.

No...I think Cardiff should have to pay the whole of the fee ..

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:19 pm

If they are entitled not to pay and refuse to do so, it won't go down well in future if they ever claim he was a Cardiff city player and treat him as much.

Such as keeping his name on the squad list, like it was on the programme for the Arsenal match.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:27 pm

Spijed wrote:Seems Cardiff want to know all the facts before paying Nantes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47213352" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If they don't end up paying how can they ever claim he was their player, and treat him as such?

"Confirming the Nantes action, Dalman said: "Of course, if we are contractually obliged to pay them then of course we will. We are an honourable club.

"But if we are not - and there are some anomalies in that - then surely you would expect me as the chairman and guardian of this club's interests to look into that and hold our position. That is what we are doing."

I suspect they'll lose all sympathy if they are able to wriggle out of this one.

Standing up and claiming honour for the club because they will pay the money they are legally bound to, and no more? It's a very lenient definition of "honour".

Goddy · Post by **Goddy** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:36 pm

The thing that does trouble me - and I think you're alluding to it, dsr - is the fact that Cardiff are acting like Sala was one of their own (and, dare I say, even using it to try and motivate the team/fans) yet appear unwilling to make any payments (or, at least, trying to confirm that they should make a payment).

It's all a little distasteful to me when the focus should be on the fact that this poor lad has lost his life (and the pain his friends and family must be suffering. Squabbling over ownership and payments (and tugging on heartstrings for the benefit of the team) seem completely inappropriate.

Maybe I'm just being bad-minded/cynical....

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:49 pm

Wrong I know, but as soon as the news broke the plane had gone missing. I immediately thought “This is gomna get messy”.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:07 pm

I read that Mbappe had donated 30k Euros to fund the 2nd search for the plane and the 2 missing men which found the plane and Sala's body. He has donated another 30k Euros on Monday so that the search team could continue looking for the body of Derek Ibbotson, the pilot

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:54 pm

[quote="taio"][/quote]
And?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:57 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:I can only assume that there were finer points of the contract that hadn’t been concluded. Maybe they hadn’t completed the registration of Sala?

In which case they shouldnt be acting how they are.

Ultimately they agreed to sign him. Unveiled him. And all the rest.

Ultimately cardiff owe the money. And the right thing to do is pay it.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:31 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:In which case they shouldnt be acting how they are.

Ultimately they agreed to sign him. Unveiled him. And all the rest.

Ultimately cardiff owe the money. And the right thing to do is pay it.

No. Not really. If it's shown the transfer really hadn't concluded, then Cardiff can't recoup that money from their insurers and Nantes presumably can recoup. It's horrible but while Sala's life as a person may not have been measurable in pound notes, his value as a footballer was. It would, of course, be more seemly if all this was carried out away from the pubic gaze but we don't live in that world any more.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:45 pm

thatdberight wrote:No. Not really. If it's shown the transfer really hadn't concluded, then Cardiff can't recoup that money from their insurers and Nantes presumably can recoup. It's horrible but while Sala's life as a person may not have been measurable in pound notes, his value as a footballer was. It would, of course, be more seemly if all this was carried out away from the pubic gaze but we don't live in that world any more.

And what about all the talk of a memorial to the player etc.?

If they won't pay Cardiff will look stupid in that respect as he won't be their player.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:29 am

thatdberight wrote:No. Not really. If it's shown the transfer really hadn't concluded, then Cardiff can't recoup that money from their insurers and Nantes presumably can recoup. It's horrible but while Sala's life as a person may not have been measurable in pound notes, his value as a footballer was. It would, of course, be more seemly if all this was carried out away from the pubic gaze but we don't live in that world any more.

Would he have still been alive if he wasnt flying from nantes to cardiff? (This flight was AFTER this picture of course).

If we were in Cardiffs shoes I would want us to pay irrespective. Theyve earnt 100m plus this season alone.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:55 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Would he have still been alive if he wasnt flying from nantes to cardiff? (This flight was AFTER this picture of course).

If we were in Cardiffs shoes I would want us to pay irrespective. Theyve earnt 100m plus this season alone.

I'd want it done properly, calmly and accurately and not grandstanding to make some point against another club.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:12 pm

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/foo ... t-15843142" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cardiff are apparently miffed that they were conned into agreeing an inflated fee for Sala and are contacting other PL clubs to see if the reported interest was genuine.
They're trying to wrangle out of paying for him, but you'd think they would be aware of agents generating fake interest in players to get the moves they want...
Pogbas agent does it regularly.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:14 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/foo ... t-15843142

Cardiff are apparently miffed that they were conned into agreeing an inflated fee for Sala and are contacting other PL clubs to see if the reported interest was genuine.
They're trying to wrangle out of paying for him, but you'd think they would be aware of agents generating fake interest in players to get the moves they want...
Pogbas agent does it regularly.

Neil Warnock was on the news yesterday after attending the funeral. He said, "He's my player", before continuing to explain why he attended. So he thinks he was a Cardiff player.

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:46 pm

Cardiff Should do the honourable thing and pay up!

It got even more distasteful when the search wasn’t continued for the poor pilot

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:54 pm

If you ever needed to be convinced that Football is now a business not a sport - what follows this tragedy should do so , everyone looks for someone to blame and cover the cost

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... ala-crash/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:20 pm

Cardiff are being truly classless. Odious club. How can Warnock attend the funeral whilst the club saying he wasn’t really their player.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:28 pm

andyh wrote:Cardiff are being truly classless. Odious club. How can Warnock attend the funeral whilst the club saying he wasn’t really their player.

Colin W@nker stated that Sala was their player.. Now the club are trying their best to wrangle out of paying by any means possible..

An odious club with an even more odious manager .. The two blend together well..

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:10 pm

Cardiff really are determined not to pay the fee:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... iano-sala/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:02 pm

Quite possibly the only upside to this whole disaster is it sheds a bright light onto agents and the way they're screwing money out of the game.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:29 am

Considering the £1.5 million pounds agent fee has enough really been done to merit this. Asking someone else to sort a plane and pilot out doesn’t really cut it. Has some some dishonesty occurred in terms of ramping up the price ? Would you trust this person to be honest in the rest of the arrangements involved ? It looks like the family want this looking into and Cardiff are right to do so. Agents need squeezing out of the game.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:41 am

Blackrod wrote:Considering the £1.5 million pounds agent fee has enough really been done to merit this. Asking someone else to sort a plane and pilot out doesn’t really cut it. Has some some dishonesty occurred in terms of ramping up the price ? Would you trust this person to be honest in the rest of the arrangements involved ? It looks like the family want this looking into and Cardiff are right to do so. Agents need squeezing out of the game.

Ramping up the price goes on in every transfer.

I'll bet if we have to sell Pope the club will try and get the best price possible. Do people really believe that the Sala transfer is somehow different from every other transfer that's ever occurred in football?

Look at Che Adams and what Birmingham are doing.

Cardiff simply don't want to pay £15 million, that's all. If questions are asked about that transfer and how legal it is then I suspect the FA will have to look at every other transfer, including ours.

The article highlights as much.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -died.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Petersa · Post by **Petersa** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:53 am

What I am very curious about is the fact that the pilot is still missing. I am certainly not an expert on aeroplane recovery but the two occupants, Sala and Ibbotsen, were surely seatbelted in in the space of a small car. The pictures on TV of the plane show it damaged but basically in one piece surely both bodies not one would still be there in the cockpit.

Aclaret · Post by **Aclaret** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:48 am

Petersa wrote:What I am very curious about is the fact that the pilot is still missing. I am certainly not an expert on aeroplane recovery but the two occupants, Sala and Ibbotsen, were surely seatbelted in in the space of a small car. The pictures on TV of the plane show it damaged but basically in one piece surely both bodies not one would still be there in the cockpit.

Yes my thoughts too. I guess it's something we will never find out. Perhaps the pilot was trying to escape as it hit the water ? We just don't know. Sad that he wasn't recovered.

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:13 am

Aclaret wrote:Yes my thoughts too. I guess it's something we will never find out. Perhaps the pilot was trying to escape as it hit the water ? We just don't know. Sad that he wasn't recovered.

They have given up searching for him thats why . They have set up a go fund me page so the search can start again . Salas family have donated aswell as vincent tan its like there not bothered now they have found the footballer