Brexit: The Naked Truth

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Juxtaposition
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Juxtaposition » Thu May 23, 2019 12:19 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Which of these 2 statements is factually incorrect?

2008 - Labour bailed out the banks and saves London based bankers jobs. Costing the nation billions. 

The EU did not block it

2019 - The tories want to save thousands of steel workers jobs in the industrial north. Costing the nation millions. 

The EU laws block it?

Which one?



Lacking credibility as you do it is impossible to trust your assertions, so please provide supporting information for your assertion that the EU prevent the UK from bailing out British Steel.

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martin_p
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Thu May 23, 2019 12:20 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Yes your right I hadn't! I thought he'd come to his senses ! :lol:


Just after Lancaster had accused you of not reading other people’s posts! :D
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 12:23 pm

Juxtaposition wrote:Does the EU actually block bailing out British Steel, or is that just what the right-wing is blaming? They've done it before. For decades they blamed the EU for immigration to the UK when they knew full well that the EU didn't stop them from stricter immigration and fools such as yourself gleefully accepted their lies.


Dr Ruth Bender, Associate Professor of Corporate Financial Strategy, was interviewed on Radio 5 Live Breakfast show on 31st March,

She said when asked

Do EU rules prevent state aid to save British Steel?

"Unfortunately, yes. T
he fact that all the economic factors go against the UK steel industry is not relevant, nor is the potentially devastating impact on the wider local economy were it to close. The EU has already ruled on this: in January 2016 the competition commissioner ruled that the Belgian government had illegally provided €211m to steel companies in one of its depressed regions, and ordered that the money be repaid. She also announced an investigation into €2bn of similar aid given by the Italian government to support its steel industry."

"The EU takes the view that State aid cannot be used if it distorts competition, and that EU regional funding is available to help with the social consequences of closing down industries that are uncompetitive."

I wasn't aware that Ruth Bender was a "right-winger". Nevertheless, she as an Associate Professor of Corporate Financial Strategy, confirms that state aid rules set by the EU has prevented the UK government from saving British Steel.


https://youtu.be/LKu43pLaItM

Greg Clark turned down the company's funding request on advice it would have broken state aid legislation

https://news.sky.com/video/clark-no-the ... l-11726187

Sky news confirming The EU does not allow state support of a business if it would distort competition in the single market.
Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Thu May 23, 2019 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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martin_p
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Thu May 23, 2019 12:25 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Which of these 2 statements is factually incorrect?

2008 - Labour bailed out the banks and saves London based bankers jobs. Costing the nation billions. 

The EU did not block it

2019 - The tories want to save thousands of steel workers jobs in the industrial north. Costing the nation millions. 

The EU laws block it?

Which one?


The second statement is the incorrect one, the EU haven’t blocked anything. It may be against EU law, but that doesn’t stop the government doing it and facing the consequences. Just like U.K. law doesn’t actually block me from nipping down to Tesco and stealing a sandwich for my lunch. I’d get into trouble for it but the only thing blocking me is my own moral code. And if the truth be told it’s the Tory ‘moral code’ that is blocking a rescue package here, not EU law.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 12:28 pm

martin_p wrote:Just after Lancaster had accused you of not reading other people’s posts! :D


Better to quickly admit I misread a post , than refusing to admit you're factually wrong. Surely!?

Given you previous track record I'm not sure you'll agree eh mutton head! :lol:

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 12:30 pm

martin_p wrote:The second statement is the incorrect one, the EU haven’t blocked anything. It may be against EU law, but that doesn’t stop the government doing it and facing the consequences. Just like U.K. law doesn’t actually block me from nipping down to Tesco and stealing a sandwich for my lunch. I’d get into trouble for it but the only thing blocking me is my own moral code. And if the truth be told it’s the Tory ‘moral code’ that is blocking a rescue package here, not EU law.


Is the first statement correct?

2008 - Labour bailed out the banks and saves London based bankers jobs. Costing the nation billions. 

The EU said , " that's fine."?


Yes




Or





No?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 12:31 pm

Juxtaposition wrote:Lacking credibility as you do it is impossible to trust your assertions, so please provide supporting information for your assertion that the EU prevent the UK from bailing out British Steel.



Dr Ruth Bender, Associate Professor of Corporate Financial Strategy, was interviewed on Radio 5 Live Breakfast show on 31st March,

She said when asked 

Do EU rules prevent state aid to save British Steel?

"Unfortunately, yes. The fact that all the economic factors go against the UK steel industry is not relevant, nor is the potentially devastating impact on the wider local economy were it to close. The EU has already ruled on this: in January 2016 the competition commissioner ruled that the Belgian government had illegally provided €211m to steel companies in one of its depressed regions, and ordered that the money be repaid. She also announced an investigation into €2bn of similar aid given by the Italian government to support its steel industry."

"The EU takes the view that State aid cannot be used if it distorts competition, and that EU regional funding is available to help with the social consequences of closing down industries that are uncompetitive."

I wasn't aware that Ruth Bender was a "right-winger". Nevertheless, she as an Associate Professor of Corporate Financial Strategy, confirms that state aid rules set by the EU has prevented the UK government from saving British Steel.


https://youtu.be/LKu43pLaItM

Greg Clark turned down the company's funding request on advice it would have broken state aid legislation

https://news.sky.com/video/clark-no-the ... l-11726187

Sky news confirming The EU does not allow state support of a business if it would distort competition in the single market.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby aggi » Thu May 23, 2019 12:34 pm

martin_p wrote:You haven’t read the question he answered have you.


Shhhh, if he thinks he's won maybe he'll stop with his incredibly simplistic arguments and the debate can return to a slightly more adult level.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 12:35 pm

aggi wrote:Shhhh, if he thinks he's won maybe he'll stop with his incredibly simplistic arguments and the debate can return to a slightly more adult level.


Which of these 2 statements is factually incorrect?

2008 - Labour bailed out the banks and saves London based bankers jobs. Costing the nation billions. 

The EU did not block it

2019 - The tories want to save thousands of steel workers jobs in the industrial north. Costing the nation millions. 

The EU laws block it?

Give me a "simplistic" answer.

Which one?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Thu May 23, 2019 12:38 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Is the first statement correct?

2008 - Labour bailed out the banks and saves London based bankers jobs. Costing the nation billions. 

The EU said , " that's fine."?


Yes




Or





No?


I don’t remember the EU making a statement on it, so unless you can point me to one I can’t say either way.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby aggi » Thu May 23, 2019 12:38 pm

Guich wrote:I'm not sure it's that simple Nildesp.

My perception is that No Deal Brexiteers will mainly vote UKIP or Brexit, and some will vote Conservative and some Labour.
Brexit will also attract voters disgusted by the conduct of the two main parties.
Most Conservative votes will come from TM deal supporters.
Labour votes will come from 'dyed in the wool' Labour supporters, some leave voters, some remain.
The big remainers will vote Green and Libdem with a few for Change UK.
Ireland, Wales and Scotland have their nationalistic considerations to complicate matters further.

So I think the interesting measure will be Brexit/UKIP versus LibDem/Green/Change as the clearest measure of the strength of feeling on either side.

I genuinely don't know who to vote for- for the first time in my life :?

I have to say I'm more interested in how voting goes in France, Italy and Germany.


From polls we appear to be looking at a relatively even split between the strong leave and strong remain parties and the rest going to labour/conservative (the former are probably slightly more pro-remain, the latter pro-leave).

Basically not much has changed in the past three years.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 12:42 pm

martin_p wrote:I don’t remember the EU making a statement on it, so unless you can point me to one I can’t say either way.


It's like pulling, answer avoiding teeth. But I'm the dentist to do it.

Did the EU block the UK government from bailing out the banks?

If you don't "remember a statement" it's fair to assume the EU didn't and the bail outs went ahead

Yes



Or



No?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 12:43 pm

aggi wrote:From polls we appear to be looking at a relatively even split between the strong leave and strong remain parties and the rest going to labour/conservative (the former are probably slightly more pro-remain, the latter pro-leave).

Basically not much has changed in the past three years.



Which of these 2 statements is factually incorrect?

2008 - Labour bailed out the banks and saves London based bankers jobs. Costing the nation billions. 

The EU did not block it

2019 - The tories want to save thousands of steel workers jobs in the industrial north. Costing the nation millions. 

The EU laws block it?

Give me a "simplistic" answer. Go on lower yourself!!

Which one?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby TonbridgeClaret » Thu May 23, 2019 12:44 pm

aggi wrote:From polls we appear to be looking at a relatively even split between the strong leave and strong remain parties and the rest going to labour/conservative (the former are probably slightly more pro-remain, the latter pro-leave).

Basically not much has changed in the past three years.


Good post aggi. Looks very even from the polls.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby aggi » Thu May 23, 2019 12:44 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Which of these 2 statements is factually incorrect?

2008 - Labour bailed out the banks and saves London based bankers jobs. Costing the nation billions. 

The EU did not block it

2019 - The tories want to save thousands of steel workers jobs in the industrial north. Costing the nation millions. 

The EU laws block it?

Give me a "simplistic" answer. Go on lower yourself!!

Which one?


Why've you changed your original statement Ringo? Did you realise it wasn't true?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Thu May 23, 2019 12:47 pm

aggi wrote:Why've you changed your original statement Ringo? Did you realise it wasn't true?


Wrongo would make a great grounsman/woman, (s)he’s an expert at moving the goalposts.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Thu May 23, 2019 12:51 pm

aggi wrote:From polls we appear to be looking at a relatively even split between the strong leave and strong remain parties and the rest going to labour/conservative (the former are probably slightly more pro-remain, the latter pro-leave).

Basically not much has changed in the past three years.


It’s going to be impossible to get any real sense of where the general public are at with Brexit from the EU results. Parties explicitly supporting a Leave and Remain are going to be within 1 or 2 percent of each other and it won’t be possible in any meaningful way to attribute the 25-30% that vote for other parties to either side. Possibly the only thing we can assume is that anyone who wants a no deal Brexit will vote for the Brexit Party or UKIP and that is likely to be less than 50% of those of vote.
Last edited by martin_p on Thu May 23, 2019 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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CombatClaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby CombatClaret » Thu May 23, 2019 12:51 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Is the first statement correct?

2008 - Labour bailed out the banks and saves London based bankers jobs. Costing the nation billions. 


That could also read

2008 - Labour bailed out the banks, securing million of the public's current account, savings accounts and millions of businesses who bank with the likes of RBS, HBOS etc. And avoiding a potential further collapse of the global financial system.

Not EU related but worth putting a more realistic slant on it.
Last edited by CombatClaret on Thu May 23, 2019 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 12:52 pm

martin_p wrote:Wrongo would make a great grounsman/woman, (s)he’s an expert at moving the goalposts.


Given you can't give a straight forward answer to whether 2 statements are correct or not, I'm attempting to hold your hand and walk you through it and break it down it to nice bite size chunks.

So , once again,

Did the EU block the UK government from bailing out the banks in 2008?



Yes



Or




No?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 12:54 pm

CombatClaret wrote:That could also read

2008 - Labour bailed out the banks, securing million of the public's current account, savings accounts and millions of businesses who bank with the likes of RBS, HBOS etc. And avoiding a potential further collapse of the global financial system.

If you think a conservative Govt would not have done the same faced with a global financial meltdown you're kidding yourself.



I didn't ask what it could "also read as"

I simply asked

Did the EU block the UK government from bailing out the banks?


You have a go. Others seen to be unable to give a straight forward answer.


Yes



Or



No?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Thu May 23, 2019 12:56 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Given you can't give a straight forward answer to whether 2 statements are correct or not, I'm attempting to hold your hand and walk you through it and break it down it to nice bite size chunks.

So , once again,

Did the EU block the UK government from bailing out the banks in 2008?



Yes



Or




No?


I gave a straight answer to the question you asked but you’ve changed the question again! No, the EU did not block it because the bail out was structured to meet EU law.

I’m genuinely confused over what point you’re actually trying to make.
Last edited by martin_p on Thu May 23, 2019 1:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Thu May 23, 2019 12:56 pm

*throws a virtual milkshake all over Ringo*

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby AndrewJB » Thu May 23, 2019 12:57 pm

The conversation around state aid, and what is and isn't allowed under EU competition law is interesting, and one I don't know a lot about. I think perhaps it would be good to understand what state aid is defined as, and also it seems through the various cases linked here that countries routinely break the rules, so there would seem to be times when a member state perceives that doing so is in their best interest.

There seems to me to be a lot of state aid going on in Britain. Corporate tax has been dropped through the floor, for example. A company I worked for eight years ago took on a lot of graduates, and I understand the government paid half their salaries. The train companies take in four times the subsidies that were paid out to British Rail. So would it be said that as these various incentives are available to all companies operating in the UK, then they aren't anti-competitive (and therefore not state aid)?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 1:01 pm

aggi wrote:Why've you changed your original statement Ringo? Did you realise it wasn't true?


OK, back to the original.

2008 - Labour bail out the banks and saves London based bankers jobs. Costing the nation billions. 

The EU says , " that's fine."

2019 - The tories want to save thousands of steel workers jobs in the industrial north. Costing the nation millions. 

The EU says, "No can do , UK"

Which one is incorrect ? ( and before you claim the tories don't want to save thousands of steel workers in the north. Given there current tanking in the polls. I'm sure there's nothing they'd like to do more. Its s matter of opinion and no doubt you'll say they dont) But concentrate on my claim that The EU says "No can do UK"

Which one is wrong?

Did the EU block the UK government from bailing out the banks?


Or



Does EU state aid law actually allow the UK government to save British Steel?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 1:03 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:*throws a virtual milkshake all over Ringo*




Thats what remoaners do when they're unable to engage in an adult debate and won't admit they're wrong.






#Rattled







Or should that be






#throws rattle out of the cot?!
Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Thu May 23, 2019 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby CombatClaret » Thu May 23, 2019 1:03 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:

Sorry I'm new to this odd line of questioning you're fixated on. Why are you comparing these two situations as equivalent?

- The potential fall of the global financial system, destroying all faith in fiat currency in a potentially apocalyptic scenario.
and
- A factory closing.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Thu May 23, 2019 1:04 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Thats what remoaners do when they're unable to engage in an adult debate and won't admit they're wrong.






#Rattled


Adult debate! :D :D :D

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Thu May 23, 2019 1:05 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Thats what remoaners do when they're unable to engage in an adult debate and won't admit they're wrong.






#Rattled


Er, and six pages of you repeating the same **** is perfectly normal?

Physician heal thyself

If I knew you, I'd be recommending you see a doctor. This isn't healthy and more than a little weird.
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aggi
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby aggi » Thu May 23, 2019 1:05 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:OK, back to the original.

2008 - Labour bail out the banks and saves London based bankers jobs. Costing the nation billions. 

The EU says , " that's fine."

2019 - The tories want to save thousands of steel workers jobs in the industrial north. Costing the nation millions. 

The EU says, "No can do , UK"

Which one is incorrect ?


Both.

I've already answered this multiple times. Why do you keep asking it?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Thu May 23, 2019 1:07 pm

aggi wrote:Both.

I've already answered this multiple times. Why do you keep asking it?


Because he doesn't read other peoples ****

He only reads his own ****, and ignores any **** that he disagrees with

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 1:08 pm

martin_p wrote:I gave a straight answer to the question you asked but you’ve changed the question again! No, the EU did not block it because the bail out was structured to meet EU law.

I’m genuinely confused over what point you’re actually trying to make.


Finally we're getting somewhere.


Part 2


Do current EU laws block the UK government from giving state aid to save British Steel?

I'm not asking if those rules can be broken, and you'd be prepared to break them.

I'm simply asking, do current EU laws block the UK government from giving state aid to save British Steel?


Yes





Or





No?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 1:15 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Er, and six pages of you repeating the same **** is perfectly normal?

Physician heal thyself

If I knew you, I'd be recommending you see a doctor. This isn't healthy and more than a little weird.


Come out of your bunker of denial.

The EU did not block the UK government from bailing out the banks.

EU law prevents state aid saving British Steel.


Lancaster Claret , I have 24 hour hot line number for people suffering from acute deep seated denial. I could let you have it.








You'd refuse to use it.............

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Tall Paul » Thu May 23, 2019 1:19 pm

lol Ringo

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 1:20 pm

aggi wrote:Both.

I've already answered this multiple times. Why do you keep asking it?



Both?



Why so?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Thu May 23, 2019 1:20 pm

I've stopped repeating my reply

There isn't a right lot of point because I remember talking to you about stuff

AND IF YOU DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT SOMETHING, YOU JUST IGNORE IT AND POST THE SAME **** OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND HOPE PEOPLE GIVE UP OR THE THREAD GETS PULLED.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby aggi » Thu May 23, 2019 1:20 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Because he doesn't read other peoples ****

He only reads his own ****, and ignores any **** that he disagrees with


That's not strictly true. Sometimes he reads the responses, realises he's wrong and asks a different question (whilst pretending it's the same question) in order to pretend he isn't wrong.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Tall Paul » Thu May 23, 2019 1:22 pm

aggi wrote:That's not strictly true. Sometimes he reads the responses, realises he's wrong and asks a different question (whilst pretending it's the same question) in order to pretend he isn't wrong.


You forgot the part where he accuses the people pointing out his mistakes of pedantry.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby aggi » Thu May 23, 2019 1:26 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Both?



Why so?


I've answered that as well. If you're not going to read my responses there's little point in this.

I know you want the world to be all simple where "EU bad, UK good" but that just isn't the case. Your frankly hilarious assertion that the EU was solely to blame for the UK job losses in the past 40 years but when other countries outside of the EU, such as the US, suffered the same level of job losses they were for entirely different reasons than the UK showed that your understanding of economics, politics and the world outside of your own dogma is minimal at best.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby SammyBoy » Thu May 23, 2019 1:28 pm

Image

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby aggi » Thu May 23, 2019 1:34 pm

Anyway, back to the adult chat.

I thought this was a decent article from Ian Dunt https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/0 ... e-next-one Obviously it's not going to win anyone over but I felt this bit was something that really hasn't been emphasised and is part of the reason where we are now:

The truth about Brexit - the plain and simple truth of it, which no-one can make go away - is that it can only be done to a long timetable and with a lot of pain. It is fiendishly complicated. It requires the full capacity of the British political system for about five to seven years.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 1:35 pm

If it be your will wrote:Ah, yes. But that's only half true. The big difference between anticompetitive rules of the EU, and those of the WTO is this:

The WTO only concerns itself when you are unfairly influencing exports. You can do whatever you like domestically. If you wanted to subsidies your ice-cream manufacturers and drench the whole country in free ice-cream, the WTO doesn't care. It only cares if you then start exporting said ice-cream to crush foreign ice cream makers.

Whereas the EU single market is exactly that: one big market. If you subsidise your own industries to supply your own country, you are distorting the whole market. You are removing the opportunity of another member state from selling their products in your country.

That's the fundamental difference between the rules of the EU and the rules of WTO.


Perhaps you would answer IWBYW.

In 2008 did the EU block the UK government from bailing out the banks.

And I'm not being facetious. In plain English, no caveats just a "simplistic" Yes or no. Did they?

Secondly,

Does current EU regulation mean that giving state aid to British Steel would distort the market. Consequently, the government is unable to give State aid to save British Steel due to EU law?

Again no attempt at belittling, just a concise yes or no?
Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Thu May 23, 2019 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Thu May 23, 2019 1:38 pm

aggi wrote:Anyway, back to the adult chat.

I thought this was a decent article from Ian Dunt https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/0 ... e-next-one Obviously it's not going to win anyone over but I felt this bit was something that really hasn't been emphasised and is part of the reason where we are now:

The truth about Brexit - the plain and simple truth of it, which no-one can make go away - is that it can only be done to a long timetable and with a lot of pain. It is fiendishly complicated. It requires the full capacity of the British political system for about five to seven years.


Again, not everybodies cup of tea but his Remaniacs podcast is an excellent listen.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 1:41 pm

aggi wrote:I've answered that as well. If you're not going to read my responses there's little point in this.

I know you want the world to be all simple where "EU bad, UK good" but that just isn't the case. Your frankly hilarious assertion that the EU was solely to blame for the UK job losses in the past 40 years but when other countries outside of the EU, such as the US, suffered the same level of job losses they were for entirely different reasons than the UK showed that your understanding of economics, politics and the world outside of your own dogma is minimal at best.


You can stop the superiority trip you're on.

Run the answers by again please.

You can cut n paste it for speed if you like.

But I really don't recall you explaining why my claim that

The EU didn't stop bank bail outs. Yet prevents state aid saving British Steel.

Were both "outright lies" as you said.

Just because you repeatedly claim you've answered it doesn't stop anybody perusing through these pages and realising you actually haven't. Yet.

Go on aggi. Quick cut n paste.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby aggi » Thu May 23, 2019 1:48 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:You can stop the superiority trip you're on.

Run the answers by again please.

You can cut n paste it for speed if you like.

But I really don't recall you explaining why my claim that

The EU didn't stop bank bail outs. Yet prevents state aid saving British Steel.

Were both "outright lies" as you said.

Just because you repeatedly claim you've answered it doesn't stop anybody perusing through these pages and realising you actually haven't. Yet.

Go on aggi. Quick cut n paste.


What's the point, you're saying different things again. Whatever answer you receive won't be good enough for you.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby RingoMcCartney » Thu May 23, 2019 1:55 pm

aggi wrote:What's the point, you're saying different things again. Whatever answer you receive won't be good enough for you.


Try me.

1 Did the EU block the UK government from bailing out the banks?

2 Does EU law prevent the current government from saving British Steel.


Cut n paste . Start a fresh. Whatever you like.

But stop avoiding. Surely proving somebody is an "outright liar" is something any right minded person would want to do.

Unless that person is an "outright liar" themselves of course, and can see they've painted themselves into a corner......

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Guich » Thu May 23, 2019 2:10 pm

aggi wrote:From polls we appear to be looking at a relatively even split between the strong leave and strong remain parties and the rest going to labour/conservative (the former are probably slightly more pro-remain, the latter pro-leave).

Basically not much has changed in the past three years.


I think the latest polls have the strong leave at 34 and strong remain at 28 - which would mean remain would need to pick up around 60 per cent of the rest to win a referendum.

That's a big ask and I'd guess you're probably right, nothing has changed in three years, apart from opinions hardening.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby aggi » Thu May 23, 2019 2:13 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Try me.

1 Did the EU block the UK government from bailing out the banks?

2 Does EU law prevent the current government from saving British Steel.


Cut n paste . Start a fresh. Whatever you like.

But stop avoiding. Surely proving somebody is an "outright liar" is something any right minded person would want to do.

Unless that person is an "outright liar" themselves of course, and can see they've painted themselves into a corner......


Neither of these things are what you originally said. Maybe you think they are because your viewpoint is very simplistic (why else would you keep changing your point) but in reality whilst you've been trying to prove your original point (which has already been answered) you've asked multiple, quite different questions.

There's no point in discussing it any further as any answer will result in the inevitable

Image

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby If it be your will » Thu May 23, 2019 2:14 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Perhaps you would answer IWBYW.

In 2008 did the EU block the UK government from bailing out the banks.

And I'm not being facetious. In plain English, no caveats just a "simplistic" Yes or no. Did they?

Secondly,

Does current EU regulation mean that giving state aid to British Steel would distort the market. Consequently, the government is unable to give State aid to save British Steel due to EU law?

Again no attempt at belittling, just a concise yes or no?

No;No.

The government is able to give state aid to British Steel just like it did with the banks. It would be challenged successfully by the EU just like it was with the banks. Does this finally end it?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Thu May 23, 2019 2:19 pm

Guich wrote:I think the latest polls have the strong leave at 34 and strong remain at 28 - which would mean remain would need to pick up around 60 per cent of the rest to win a referendum.

That's a big ask and I'd guess you're probably right, nothing has changed in three years, apart from opinions hardening.


Only if you discount Scotland, Wales and NI.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby martin_p » Thu May 23, 2019 2:21 pm

If it be your will wrote:No;No.

The government is able to give state aid to British Steel just like it did with the banks. It would be challenged successfully by the EU just like it was with the banks. Does this finally end it?


Of course it doesn’t end it, you haven’t given the answer he wants!
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