Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Only a mug would base our strategic economic plan on a declining sector.
I’m all for trying to help the auto industry but it is fighting a losing battle, regardless of Brexit. Thus it cannot be the biggest consideration.
I’m all for trying to help the auto industry but it is fighting a losing battle, regardless of Brexit. Thus it cannot be the biggest consideration.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Exactly.Lancasterclaret wrote:When they leave and say its not because of Brexit, its not
When they leave and say its because of Brexit, its still not.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
So again, Brexiteer line will be its nothing to do with Brexit.CrosspoolClarets wrote:Only a mug would base our strategic economic plan on a declining sector.
I’m all for trying to help the auto industry but it is fighting a losing battle, regardless of Brexit. Thus it cannot be the biggest consideration.
Manufacturing and Agriculture is how a hell of a lot of people earn a living in this country, and their welfare and well being is a consideration for most normal people.
Last edited by Lancasterclaret on Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Why did they leave in 2006?Lancasterclaret wrote:When they leave and say its not because of Brexit, its not
When they leave and say its because of Brexit, its still not.
I've asked and no one's been arsed to answer, apart from me....
Vauxhall is/was sinking and needs a major overhaul of the business.
By using current PSA chassis and equipment there isn't actually any real reason to keep the plant in the UK open.
If Brexit wasn't happening , then they'd still look to close it because they don't really need it.
You're not interested when it's laid out for you, because it doesn't suit your remain agenda unsurprisingly.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
All I know is that I've read on what they have said today.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Why did they leave in 2006?
I've asked and no one's been arsed to answer, apart from me....
Vauxhall is/was sinking and needs a major overhaul of the business.
By using current PSA chassis and equipment there isn't actually any real reason to keep the plant in the UK open.
If Brexit wasn't happening , then they'd still look to close it because they don't really need it.
You're not interested when it's laid out for you, because it doesn't suit your remain agenda unsurprisingly.
They have said that they will build the new cars at the Ellesmere Port plant as long as we don't "No Deal"
I didn't see anything about 2006 in there. Probably because its 2019.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
They've got form for leaving the UK, PSA, the parent company.Lancasterclaret wrote:All I know is that I've read on what they have said today.
They have said that they will build the new cars at the Ellesmere Port plant as long as we don't "No Deal"
I didn't see anything about 2006 in there. Probably because its 2019.
They're using PSA chassis etc for next generation vauxhall models that aren't made in the UK.
You're a clever chap, you can join up the dots if you really wanted to.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Are you getting annoyed yet when someone who doesn't have a clue what he is talking about refuses to listen to you?GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Why did they leave in 2006?
I've asked and no one's been arsed to answer, apart from me....
Vauxhall is/was sinking and needs a major overhaul of the business.
By using current PSA chassis and equipment there isn't actually any real reason to keep the plant in the UK open.
If Brexit wasn't happening , then they'd still look to close it because they don't really need it.
You're not interested when it's laid out for you, because it doesn't suit your remain agenda unsurprisingly.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Nah, it's been going on for years on here, it goes over my head nowadays.Lancasterclaret wrote:Are you getting annoyed yet when someone who doesn't have a clue what he is talking about refuses to listen to you?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Is that the same mug who's basing our strategic economic plan on the mighty fishing industry?CrosspoolClarets wrote:Only a mug would base our strategic economic plan on a declining sector.
I’m all for trying to help the auto industry but it is fighting a losing battle, regardless of Brexit. Thus it cannot be the biggest consideration.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I'm clever enough to know my limitations.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:They've got form for leaving the UK, PSA, the parent company.
They're using PSA chassis etc for next generation vauxhall models that aren't made in the UK.
You're a clever chap, you can join up the dots if you really wanted to.
Its such a shame that not everyone on here isn't.
On this, I've got experts in trade telling me its because of Brexit, and I've got Mr I know everything telling me it isn't.
**** Sid, I just don't know who to believe. I mean, you've got such a good track record of being right.....
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
You are not kidding.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Nah, it's been going on for years on here, it goes over my head nowadays.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I forgot you're the expert on everything and nails it every time ...Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm clever enough to know my limitations.
Its such a shame that not everyone on here isn't.
On this, I've got experts in trade telling me its because of Brexit, and I've got Mr I know everything telling me it isn't.
**** Sid, I just don't know who to believe. I mean, you've got such a good track record of being right.....
You once told me to stick to the automotive industry, yet when I do and lay it all out for you, you're not interested.
You'll listen to all the alleged experts but until it happens brexit and it's outcome can't be predicted accurately.
You can keep banging your head on hear daily though, it appears to make you happy for some reason.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
You'll still be on here later and tomorrow banging the same tired drum though, you're on here more than I am amusingly.Lancasterclaret wrote:You are not kidding.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Yeah but don’t forget you’ve got two twitter accounts to run as well.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Only one account though, as I'm not a saddoGodIsADeeJay81 wrote:You'll still be on here later and tomorrow banging the same tired drum though, you're on here more than I am amusingly.
And I seriously doubt I'm on here more than you are.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
You see, I even admit what I do.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:I forgot you're the expert on everything and nails it every time ...
You once told me to stick to the automotive industry, yet when I do and lay it all out for you, you're not interested.
You'll listen to all the alleged experts but until it happens brexit and it's outcome can't be predicted accurately.
You can keep banging your head on hear daily though, it appears to make you happy for some reason.
When I don't know something, or I'm not sure about it, I google it. Gives me some ideas, some books, some articles, some experts names.
I look at them, read them, quote them and find similar experts or books on the same subject, follow a lot of trade experts on twitter for example.
They have written books, are on TV, advise governments.
So I listen to what they say, and put it on here.
You are not alone Sid on here in then attacking that, but you don't make the connection.
Its not my work mate, its actually people who know what they are talking about. And I trust them more than I trust people on here.
You know a lot about cars, and you think you know a lot about everything else.
Thats entirely up to you, but when I'm out of my depth, you don't find me digging a bigger and bigger hole.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
The last sentence is fuckin hilariousLancasterclaret wrote:Only one account though, as I'm not a saddo
And I seriously doubt I'm on here more than you are.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I'm active on the political threads and that's it.taio wrote:The last sentence is fuckin hilarious
I might be active on the transfer speculation threads if we ever had any though!
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Yes Lancs, I agree, which is why (as a normal person) I said that I am up for helping the auto industry. But being up for it, and having it as the primary consideration, are two very different things.Lancasterclaret wrote:So again, Brexiteer line will be its nothing to do with Brexit.
Manufacturing and Agriculture is how a hell of a lot of people earn a living in this country, and their welfare and well being is a consideration for most normal people.
Micro businesses with less than 10 employees have 8,802,000 employees in the U.K. and turnover £808,000,000,000 annually (Source - Parliament Business Briefing).
How do those figures compare to Auto and Agriculture? Which will have the biggest impact on the future prosperity of the U.K.?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
But that is nothing to do with the auto or agricultural industries!CrosspoolClarets wrote:Yes Lancs, I agree, which is why (as a normal person) I said that I am up for helping the auto industry. But being up for it, and having it as the primary consideration, are two very different things.
Micro businesses with less than 10 employees have 8,802,000 employees in the U.K. and turnover £808,000,000,000 annually (Source - Parliament Business Briefing).
How do those figures compare to Auto and Agriculture? Which will have the biggest impact on the future prosperity of the U.K.?
I know your argument is that worldwide opportunities that Brexit offers us (we disagree, as the trade deals we already have through the EU will be very hard to beat) but we can't start stuff off with wholesale damage to a large sector of our economy.
Its not a reason to cancel Brexit, but it is very pressing reason to make sure we leave with a deal, and even more pressing evidence that we don't want to go down the "No Deal" route under any circumstances.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Help for the auto industry.... we already break several EU rules on incentivising manufacture. The car industry in Britain has been propped up since the 90’s when I worked in it.... even then Honda and Nissan had money thrown at them, whereas Rover and Austin were left to fend for themselves... and go bust.
It is certainly not anything to do with Brexit, it has been thirty years of “ encouraging” outside investment at the direct cost of British industry.
It is certainly not anything to do with Brexit, it has been thirty years of “ encouraging” outside investment at the direct cost of British industry.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
tariffs of 10% are 100% to do with Brexit and from what I can work out, 100% will take effect on Nov 1st if we leave on WTO terms.elwaclaret wrote:Help for the auto industry.... we already break several EU rules on incentivising manufacture. The car industry in Britain has been propped up since the 90’s when I worked in it.... even then Honda and Nissan had money thrown at them, whereas Rover and Austin were left to fend for themselves... and go bust.
It is certainly not anything to do with Brexit, it has been thirty years of “ encouraging” outside investment at the direct cost of British industry.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
If tariffs on improted cars are going to 100%, doubling the costs of imported cars bought in the UK, then I would very much doubt that car manufacturers in the UK would be shutting down just at the moment that they get a huge competitive boost. Are Vauxhall going to make cars in Germany to sell at twice the price they would if they made them in the UK?Lancasterclaret wrote:tariffs of 10% are 100% to do with Brexit and from what I can work out, 100% will take effect on Nov 1st if we leave on WTO terms.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Again, that is not what I said.dsr wrote:If tariffs on improted cars are going to 100%, doubling the costs of imported cars bought in the UK, then I would very much doubt that car manufacturers in the UK would be shutting down just at the moment that they get a huge competitive boost. Are Vauxhall going to make cars in Germany to sell at twice the price they would if they made them in the UK?
I'm just telling you what is reality. You can ignore it if you wish, or post something that is nothing to do with what I posted, but it doesn't change it.
You have to remember that are consequences to what you want. You may ignore them if you wish, but they will still be consequences.
Facing up to those consequences would have been a good idea in 2016, in 2017, in 2018 and would still be in 2019.
It would certainly help get more people to prepare to deal with them for starters.
Last edited by Lancasterclaret on Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I’d be amazed if we leave on WTO terms. The No Deal alternative is an inducement / threat to get a deal done. As you know any business negotiation has to has have a fall back position, that no one really wants. But it has to be there to get compromises and focus minds. It is all sabre rattling at the moment, as you’d expect with no one able to actually do anything... at least it makes a change from sabre rattling while negotiations are taking place.Lancasterclaret wrote:tariffs of 10% are 100% to do with Brexit and from what I can work out, 100% will take effect on Nov 1st if we leave on WTO terms.
WTO will not happen.
Last edited by elwaclaret on Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... of-brexit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As the link shows brexit is to blame for everything
As the link shows brexit is to blame for everything
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Yes, but if we do leave on WTO terms (which is what will happen unless either Hunt or Johnson recognise reality) then that is 100% what will happen on Nov 1st.elwaclaret wrote:I’d be amazed if we leave on WTO terms. The No Deal alternative is an inducement / threat to get a deal done. As you know any business negotiation has to has have a fall back position, that no one really wants. But it has to be there to get compromises and focus minds. It is all sabre rattling at the moment, as you’d expect with no one able to actually do anything... at least it makes a change from sabre rattling while negotiations are taking place.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I genuinely hope that article is tongue in cheek, but I seriously doubt it.claretonthecoast1882 wrote:https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... of-brexit/
As the link shows brexit is to blame for everything
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
elwaclaret wrote:I genuinely hope that article is tongue in cheek, but I seriously doubt it.
No, definitely steak
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Niceclaretonthecoast1882 wrote:No, definitely steak
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
More problems to seek for the new PM https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-487 ... ting-story,i thought the UK was prepared for a no-deal.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
It's certainly a problem for the new PM, but it will be a problemn whether we're in the EU or out of it. This is BBC scaremongering about Brexit on a matter that will be a problem regardless of whether we are in or out.tiger76 wrote:More problems to seek for the new PM https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-487 ... ting-story,i thought the UK was prepared for a no-deal.
The EU is not a mutual aid society. It does not have a scheme where if one EU member is short of gas and another has just enough to get by, the adequately supplied country will have to go short to reduce the shortage elsewhere. If any EU countries are short of gas to heat their own people, they wouldn't be exporting gas that they need for themselves whether it's to another EU country or not. It makes no difference whether we are in or out - if there is a gas shortage, we might struggle for heat (or more likely, the price will go through the roof). This is the result of a shambles of an energy policy for years; Brexit is a red herring.
And as they point out in the small print, only 8% of Britain's energy came from gas imported from the EU and it is unlikely that there will be any tariffs.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
According to Jakubclaret (whatever happened to him), no electricity was a sacrifice worth making so long as we got Brexit.tiger76 wrote:More problems to seek for the new PM https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-487 ... ting-story,i thought the UK was prepared for a no-deal.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Gas shortages because we aren't in the EU? This is just nonsense. Yes, the UK does import gas from the EU - we also import some electricity. The gas and elec will always chase the highest price market - and the world has got plenty of natural gas (and, if the UK is short, maybe we could start using some more of our own, i.e fracking). The UK has got a number of LNG import terminals. We can import LNG from Qatar, the USA and any other country that is now exporting LNG - this list grows every week/month/year. We will not "run short."dsr wrote:It's certainly a problem for the new PM, but it will be a problemn whether we're in the EU or out of it. This is BBC scaremongering about Brexit on a matter that will be a problem regardless of whether we are in or out.
The EU is not a mutual aid society. It does not have a scheme where if one EU member is short of gas and another has just enough to get by, the adequately supplied country will have to go short to reduce the shortage elsewhere. If any EU countries are short of gas to heat their own people, they wouldn't be exporting gas that they need for themselves whether it's to another EU country or not. It makes no difference whether we are in or out - if there is a gas shortage, we might struggle for heat (or more likely, the price will go through the roof). This is the result of a shambles of an energy policy for years; Brexit is a red herring.
And as they point out in the small print, only 8% of Britain's energy came from gas imported from the EU and it is unlikely that there will be any tariffs.
Prices of gas and elec can spike for a few hours or a few days, they can also rise more gradually over time - they can also fall. These are wholesale market prices. The retail/residential markets will always adjust more slowly - because we can buy "all we want" at the fixed price o our gas/elec contract.
Tariffs are imposed by the importing country. Does anyone expect the UK to put an import tariff on gas/power? Russia (Gazprom) is the biggest supplier of gas to Germany and much of central Europe. Can you see the EU putting a tariff on Russian gas, or having a higher tariff on gas from the UK (yes, gas is also delivered from UK to Europe) than it has on gas imports from Russia?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Anyway, I thought I'd post about our concerns for car manufacturing and agriculture.
Has anyone reading this thread also taken a look at the "climate change faster" thread? Don't you think if we are all so desperate to address climate change (IT, as well as Mark Ryland, want to shut down the fossil fuel industry) that that will mean we will all be buying few cars (even if they are only elec cars) and eating less meat? Climate change may be good news for the fruit and veg (and cereals) farmers, but it won't be good news for all the meat farmers and won't be good news for the car manufacturers.
Anyone disagree?
Has anyone reading this thread also taken a look at the "climate change faster" thread? Don't you think if we are all so desperate to address climate change (IT, as well as Mark Ryland, want to shut down the fossil fuel industry) that that will mean we will all be buying few cars (even if they are only elec cars) and eating less meat? Climate change may be good news for the fruit and veg (and cereals) farmers, but it won't be good news for all the meat farmers and won't be good news for the car manufacturers.
Anyone disagree?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
How can anyone say they would prefer we leave with a deal after they have already said on this message board weeks ago that they would like a second referendum with remain as an option?
If normal logic is applied that is stupid unless they are being duplicitous. Surely they simply want another chance for Remain to win and don't want any deal that would see us leaving the UK.
If normal logic is applied that is stupid unless they are being duplicitous. Surely they simply want another chance for Remain to win and don't want any deal that would see us leaving the UK.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Interesting fact:
Over the last 10 years (in which the EuropeanUnion & Brexit have been regularly debated), BBC Question Times has invited UK MEPs onto its show some 50 times.
Every single one has been a Brexit supporter.
Never had a Remainer.
Never had a #Labour, #LibDem, Green, SNP, or PlaidCymru MEP
Over the last 10 years (in which the EuropeanUnion & Brexit have been regularly debated), BBC Question Times has invited UK MEPs onto its show some 50 times.
Every single one has been a Brexit supporter.
Never had a Remainer.
Never had a #Labour, #LibDem, Green, SNP, or PlaidCymru MEP
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Liam Fox said it would be the easiest trade deal in history.
Well here it is!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48807161" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Well here it is!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48807161" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Interesting fact:
The People's Vote campaign for a 2nd referendum was started a few months before anyone even knew the details of May's deal with the EU.
The People's Vote campaign for a 2nd referendum was started a few months before anyone even knew the details of May's deal with the EU.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
20 years... We'll get the same and more in a week, if we believe hard enough.Spijed wrote:Liam Fox said it would be the easiest trade deal in history.
Well here it is!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48807161" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
A week? Stop talking Britain down!!CombatClaret wrote:20 years... We'll get the same and more in a week, if we believe hard enough.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I suspect you're blaming the wrong people here. If only 3 MEPs from Tory Labour, Liberal and the rest have been on Question Time, it's because the Tory, Labour and Liberal parties aren't putting them forward. Not because the BBC have an inherent bias against Tory, Labour, and Liberal MEPs.CombatClaret wrote:Interesting fact:
Over the last 10 years (in which the EuropeanUnion & Brexit have been regularly debated), BBC Question Times has invited UK MEPs onto its show some 50 times.
Every single one has been a Brexit supporter.
Never had a Remainer.
Never had a #Labour, #LibDem, Green, SNP, or PlaidCymru MEP
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I think it's a case of preferring to leave with a deal in place rather than leaving with no deal, but given the choice he'd prefer to remain in the EU as a full member.Elizabeth wrote:How can anyone say they would prefer we leave with a deal after they have already said on this message board weeks ago that they would like a second referendum with remain as an option?
If normal logic is applied that is stupid unless they are being duplicitous. Surely they simply want another chance for Remain to win and don't want any deal that would see us leaving the UK.
I don't see what's so controversial about that.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Brexit is the biggest political controversy in many people's life.
Clearly the people who voted leave haven't changed their mind. The majority of people who voted remain want that vote honoured.
Yet we have a Labour Party who have persistently played political games, including our own MP, and a loud minority of remain voters who are causing so much unrest in the country.
It is your right to disagree but I feel that is how most people see it.
I have called out the duplicitous nature of some posters comments and find it hard to accept the apologists.
Clearly the people who voted leave haven't changed their mind. The majority of people who voted remain want that vote honoured.
Yet we have a Labour Party who have persistently played political games, including our own MP, and a loud minority of remain voters who are causing so much unrest in the country.
It is your right to disagree but I feel that is how most people see it.
I have called out the duplicitous nature of some posters comments and find it hard to accept the apologists.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzElizabeth wrote:Brexit is the biggest political controversy in many people's life.
Clearly the people who voted leave haven't changed their mind. The majority of people who voted remain want that vote honoured.
Yet we have a Labour Party who have persistently played political games, including our own MP, and a loud minority of remain voters who are causing so much unrest in the country.
It is your right to disagree but I feel that is how most people see it.
I have called out the duplicitous nature of some posters comments and find it hard to accept the apologists.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
That all you got today?
I suggest you stick to the football as clearly you have been worn down and have no more to offer on this debate.
I suggest you stick to the football as clearly you have been worn down and have no more to offer on this debate.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Clearly? Do you have any evidence?Elizabeth wrote:Clearly the people who voted leave haven't changed their mind.
This user liked this post: JohnMcGreal
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
So in short, it's all the remainers fault. Righto.Elizabeth wrote:Brexit is the biggest political controversy in many people's life.
Clearly the people who voted leave haven't changed their mind. The majority of people who voted remain want that vote honoured.
Yet we have a Labour Party who have persistently played political games, including our own MP, and a loud minority of remain voters who are causing so much unrest in the country.
It is your right to disagree but I feel that is how most people see it.
I have called out the duplicitous nature of some posters comments and find it hard to accept the apologists.
-
- Posts: 4377
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:13 am
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
More evidence than you I bet.
I'll raise you the outstanding success of the Brexit Party.
That should be enough to take the stakes and I am expecting something back from you that is more than some poll you might have found.
I'll raise you the outstanding success of the Brexit Party.
That should be enough to take the stakes and I am expecting something back from you that is more than some poll you might have found.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Firstly, the "success" of the Brexit Party isn't evidence that the people who voted leave haven't changed their mind, it's evidence that the Brexit party was the most popular party at the European elections.Elizabeth wrote:More evidence than you I bet.
I'll raise you the outstanding success of the Brexit Party.
That should be enough to take the stakes and I am expecting something back from you that is more than some poll you might have found.
Secondly, it was you who made the claim (and you said it was clear) so the onus is on you to provide evidence.
Last edited by Tall Paul on Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.