Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Muppet alert!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48869520" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
She certainly doesn't represent me thank gawd
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48869520" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
She certainly doesn't represent me thank gawd
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
That was up there with Ronaldo likening Man Utd's refusal to sell him to Real Madrid to slavery.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
She is proper mental. It’s like watching a a racist gran on Christmas Day after two glasses of sherry.
This user liked this post: longsidepies
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Brexiters must be so proud.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Dementia shouldn't be laughed at but in this case it's pretty difficult not to.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I think I should make the distinction that I'm not "pro EU", but "pro remain in our current circumstance".If it be your will wrote:Okay, but taking a step back: when you watch the shenanigans at the real seat of power - the commission - do you honestly see this as democracy in action? I'm anti-EU, you're Pro-EU, and I'm aware these positions could cloud the judgment of either of us. But when I look I'm struggling to find even a shred of democratic accountability in all this.
I'm fully aware of the potential flaws of democracy, and potential merits of some non-democratic institutions of government, but why, oh why do they make out the EU is democratic when it patently is not? It's insulting! They should at least be honest about it.
Being a group of different sized countries, democracy is harder to do on the one person one vote standard in the EU. They have to balance the equality of the member states - which I'm sure you'll agree is important, with the fact that Germany, France, and Britain have larger populations than Malta, Slovakia, and Denmark. How I see the EU as a bulwark for democracy is in the EU setting rules about minimum democratic standards within member states (along with legal, and other protections).
I would love to see Britain remain in the EU, and set about having discussions with the other members about how to improve it, and make it more democratic.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
She is a bit of a mentalist but she played a blinder.
All these tricks the Brexit party are playing to cause havoc in EU parliament will ensure we don't get offered another extension.
Out by the end of October. Maybe before if they really get sick of them.
All these tricks the Brexit party are playing to cause havoc in EU parliament will ensure we don't get offered another extension.
Out by the end of October. Maybe before if they really get sick of them.
This user liked this post: AndyClaret
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preside ... Commission" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;dsr wrote:Before the election, the voters were told that the head of the largest party would be President. After the election, the Commission decided that the people had voted for the wring man so they were changing the rules and the elected Parliament would not have a say.
Normally it's the head of the largest party, but not always.
If there were a general election here, and Labour won a majority then I'd expect Corbyn to become PM. If however a sizeable number of Labour MPs joined other parties and voted Labour down in a confidence vote, in order to install somebody else as prime minister, then I'd be disappointed (probably outraged), but it wouldn't mean our parliamentary system is broken or undemocratic.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
(In terms of population sizes etc, I assume you are speaking of the composition of the Council, and their QMV rules. But none of the members of the Council are elected in the first place. And none of this explains the utter lack of teeth given to the only truly democratic bit - The European Parliament.)AndrewJB wrote:I think I should make the distinction that I'm not "pro EU", but "pro remain in our current circumstance".
Being a group of different sized countries, democracy is harder to do on the one person one vote standard in the EU. They have to balance the equality of the member states - which I'm sure you'll agree is important, with the fact that Germany, France, and Britain have larger populations than Malta, Slovakia, and Denmark. How I see the EU as a bulwark for democracy is in the EU setting rules about minimum democratic standards within member states (along with legal, and other protections).
I would love to see Britain remain in the EU, and set about having discussions with the other members about how to improve it, and make it more democratic.
I think I'm reading this right: you consider the EU to be undemocratic, but they do at least insist on certain rules of democracy within member states. Noting, however, that EU law has ultimate supremacy over domestic law. So in summary, the supreme laws are made in an undemocratic fashion; subservient laws made in a democratic fashion.
If so, yes, we are not in any particular disagreement, then.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
A better comparison would probably be the Tories getting 260 seats, labour getting 250 but ending up with the PM in a coalition with the SNP.AndrewJB wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preside ... Commission
Normally it's the head of the largest party, but not always.
If there were a general election here, and Labour won a majority then I'd expect Corbyn to become PM. If however a sizeable number of Labour MPs joined other parties and voted Labour down in a confidence vote, in order to install somebody else as prime minister, then I'd be disappointed (probably outraged), but it wouldn't mean our parliamentary system is broken or undemocratic.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I'm not.LeuvenClaret wrote:I’m sure she’s speaking for 17.4Mil people.....
But whether she feels she is speaking for 17.400,000 people or not.
She shouldn't be there to speak.
We should have left.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
According to the judge £350m was the correct figure, who knew ?
https://order-order.com/2019/07/04/judg ... ss-figure/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://order-order.com/2019/07/04/judg ... ss-figure/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Brilliant response to Widdicombe:
In response, EU Brexit co-ordinator Guy Verhofstadt said Ms Widdecombe was giving her party leader, Nigel Farage, "stiff competition as chief clown".
In response, EU Brexit co-ordinator Guy Verhofstadt said Ms Widdecombe was giving her party leader, Nigel Farage, "stiff competition as chief clown".
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
So they're trying to drive the country off a cliff and are making a complete spectacle of themselves, and by extension, all of us, in the processQuickenthetempo wrote:She is a bit of a mentalist but she played a blinder.
All these tricks the Brexit party are playing to cause havoc in EU parliament will ensure we don't get offered another extension.
Out by the end of October. Maybe before if they really get sick of them.
These are the people we send to represent us on the world stage, and the way they're smearing **** all over themselves is shameful. We're no longer a serious country. We're an international embarrassment.
This user liked this post: longsidepies
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Her speech will sit well with the many thick people we have in this country.
For anyone with at least a little bit of intelligence they will just be embarrassed.
For anyone with at least a little bit of intelligence they will just be embarrassed.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
You missed out racist, bigoted, xenophobic for a full house. What a prick!Bordeauxclaret wrote:Her speech will sit well with the many thick people we have in this country.
For anyone with at least a little bit of intelligence they will just be embarrassed.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Good point, she’s all three of those.
These 2 users liked this post: evensteadiereddie martin_p
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
This facist needs to be stopped from voicing her opinion on brexit
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
She needs to stop being such a hypocrite like the rest of the Brexit MPs.
At least Sinn Fein, elected in several seats in a Parliament they refuse to recognise, make their political point by refusing to attend any sessions and by refusing to accept the payment and considerable perks that go with the post of MP.
Widdecombe has become part of an embarrassing freak show, with her and her fellow morons ironically wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds by stealing it from the so-called wasteful and undemocratic EU.
At least Sinn Fein, elected in several seats in a Parliament they refuse to recognise, make their political point by refusing to attend any sessions and by refusing to accept the payment and considerable perks that go with the post of MP.
Widdecombe has become part of an embarrassing freak show, with her and her fellow morons ironically wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds by stealing it from the so-called wasteful and undemocratic EU.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
She’s perfectly at liberty to voice her opinions, just as those who find her opinions vile are at liberty to suggest she should lose some of the honours bestowed upon her. It’s what free speech is all about.Damo wrote:This facist needs to be stopped from voicing her opinion on brexit
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
We have been an international embarrassment for the last couple of years.JohnMcGreal wrote:So they're trying to drive the country off a cliff and are making a complete spectacle of themselves, and by extension, all of us, in the process
These are the people we send to represent us on the world stage, and the way they're smearing **** all over themselves is shameful. We're no longer a serious country. We're an international embarrassment.
The people voted to leave. Yet our so called politicians show how inadequate they are at representing them.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I only saw a quick clip of her speech. What was it that she said that was vile?martin_p wrote:She’s perfectly at liberty to voice her opinions, just as those who find her opinions vile are at liberty to suggest she should lose some of the honours bestowed upon her. It’s what free speech is all about.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
She’s said plenty that’s vile, the main one for me being that science may provide ‘an answer’ to homosexuality.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
And that's just it. There are those who trough religion may believe homosexuality is wrong, and there are those like her who would rather gay people cease to exist.martin_p wrote:She’s said plenty that’s vile, the main one for me being that science may provide ‘an answer’ to homosexuality.
Her rhetoric is similar to that of German opinion in the 1930's
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I'll try and watch it again at some point today. Seems a bit of a strange thing to say in the EU assembly. She does seem a bit mental mindmartin_p wrote:She’s said plenty that’s vile, the main one for me being that science may provide ‘an answer’ to homosexuality.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
...and anyone with any more than a little bit of intelligence won't care either way.Bordeauxclaret wrote:Her speech will sit well with the many thick people we have in this country.
For anyone with at least a little bit of intelligence they will just be embarrassed.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
She didn't say it there, it was a few weeks ago to the BBC. Not sure where she said it has any relevance though.Damo wrote:I'll try and watch it again at some point today. Seems a bit of a strange thing to say in the EU assembly. She does seem a bit mental mind
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
But Unison want her to be silenced following yesterday's speech.martin_p wrote:She didn't say it there, it was a few weeks ago to the BBC. Not sure where she said it has any relevance though.
Not something from weeks ago (which I agree was pretty disgusting)
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I guess Damo is asking what she has said in her speech at the EU to cause all this reaction. Damo she likened the Brexit party (in its quest to leave the EU) to slaves rising up against their masters to emancipate themselves.
I guess it just reinforces her outdated and warped view of the world alongside a lot of the vile stuff she has said over the years. The petition stuff is a bit cringe but it is far more harmless and irrelevant than the crap Widdecombe spouts
I guess it just reinforces her outdated and warped view of the world alongside a lot of the vile stuff she has said over the years. The petition stuff is a bit cringe but it is far more harmless and irrelevant than the crap Widdecombe spouts
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Damo, you really need to start reading/watching the things you link (like that video yesterday). The Unison petition has been going for weeks!Damo wrote:But Unison want her to be silenced following yesterday's speech.
Not something from weeks ago (which I agree was pretty disgusting)
And where does it say they want her silenced?
Last edited by martin_p on Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Nothing, as I said the petition is weeks old.Devils_Advocate wrote:I guess Damo is asking what she has said in her speech at the EU to cause all this reaction. Damo she likened the Brexit party (in its quest to leave the EU) to slaves rising up against their masters to emancipate themselves.
I guess it just reinforces her outdated and warped view of the world alongside a lot of the vile stuff she has said over the years. The petition stuff is a bit cringe but it is far more harmless and irrelevant than the crap Widdecombe spouts
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Fair enough my bad, skim reading a bit at work so missed the bit about the petition being outdated.martin_p wrote:Nothing, as I said the petition is weeks old.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Wayhey, someone gullible enough to actually believe guido. I assume you didn't actually read the judgement https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/upl ... -final.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;AndyClaret wrote:According to the judge £350m was the correct figure, who knew ?
https://order-order.com/2019/07/04/judg ... ss-figure/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Not quite true Damo, they reminded everyone to sign the petition yesterday, the original petition began 09/06 a week after her science comment.Damo wrote:But Unison want her to be silenced following yesterday's speech.
Not something from weeks ago (which I agree was pretty disgusting)
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Fixed that for you.Caballo wrote:Not remotely true Damo, they reminded everyone to sign the petition yesterday, the original petition began 09/06 a week after her science comment.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Let it go son.... Let it go.aggi wrote:Wayhey, someone gullible enough to actually believe guido. I assume you didn't actually read the judgement https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/upl ... -final.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Ah, well it only came to my attention today as its trending on twitter.Caballo wrote:Not quite true Damo, they reminded everyone to sign the petition yesterday, the original petition began 09/06 a week after her science comment.
I'm guessing quite a lot more people will be signing it now she has said something that offends them personally
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
What other aim would it have? Fair enough, they haven't threatened her with the gulag, or put a big piece of selotape over her mouth or anything...martin_p wrote:Damo, you really need to start reading/watching the things you link (like that video yesterday). The Unison petition has been going for weeks!
And where does it say they want her silenced?
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
MP's use Rehtoric all the time DA. But what is offensive about likening leaving the EU to slaves rising up against its masters?Devils_Advocate wrote:I guess Damo is asking what she has said in her speech at the EU to cause all this reaction. Damo she likened the Brexit party (in its quest to leave the EU) to slaves rising up against their masters to emancipate themselves.
I guess it just reinforces her outdated and warped view of the world alongside a lot of the vile stuff she has said over the years. The petition stuff is a bit cringe but it is far more harmless and irrelevant than the crap Widdecombe spouts
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
The aim of not having someone who’s views they find reprehensible associated with their university, you know, as it says in the petition.Damo wrote:What other aim would it have? Fair enough, they haven't threatened her with the gulag, or put a big piece of selotape over her mouth or anything...
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Well where to start!Damo wrote:MP's use Rehtoric all the time DA. But what is offensive about likening leaving the EU to slaves rising up against its masters?
How many slaves do you think
- went into the slavery voluntarily
- has the option to veto the major rules it doesn’t like
- has a big voice in defining the rules
- has the option to leave their slavery
- actually isn’t a slave and is just in partnership with 27 other people to their mutual benefit
Yep, just like slavery.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Those are arguments as to why the comparison is wrong. But why is it offensive?martin_p wrote:Well where to start!
How many slaves do you think
- went into the slavery voluntarily
- has the option to veto the major rules it doesn’t like
- has a big voice in defining the rules
- has the option to leave their slavery
- actually isn’t a slave and is just in partnership with 27 other people to their mutual benefit
Yep, just like slavery.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Slavery is one of the most horrendous events of modern Western society so to glibly liken your plight to it could be pretty offensive. Plus there is the context of who is saying it and their views and stated opinions that makes a difference.Damo wrote:MP's use Rehtoric all the time DA. But what is offensive about likening leaving the EU to slaves rising up against its masters?
Had a remain MP given a speech likening themselves to the allied forces in WW2 fighting against the Brexit national populists (Nazi's) to remain in the EU and fight the rise of fascism do you not think there would have been an absolute outcry from the right? (be honest)
Im not offended by what was said and in fact from my perspective it is good that horrible people like her out herself and bring attention to her horrible views she has expressed over the years. I can however see why there would be a reaction just like they would on the other side with the example I have given you
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I haven't said I think the EU is undemocratic. The constituent parts are all democracies. What I was getting across - clumsily - is the federal nature of the EU makes is difficult to invest the parliament with more power, because that reduces the clout of the smaller countries (because they have fewer MEPs). It's finding the right balance.If it be your will wrote:(In terms of population sizes etc, I assume you are speaking of the composition of the Council, and their QMV rules. But none of the members of the Council are elected in the first place. And none of this explains the utter lack of teeth given to the only truly democratic bit - The European Parliament.)
I think I'm reading this right: you consider the EU to be undemocratic, but they do at least insist on certain rules of democracy within member states. Noting, however, that EU law has ultimate supremacy over domestic law. So in summary, the supreme laws are made in an undemocratic fashion; subservient laws made in a democratic fashion.
If so, yes, we are not in any particular disagreement, then.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Well if you find the thought of slavery offensive then using it in an entirely inappropriate comparison is belittling the pain and struggle of those that went through it and those that continue to go through it.dsr wrote:Those are arguments as to why the comparison is wrong. But why is it offensive?
It’s a bit like me losing my favourite pencil and claiming I now know how the parents of a murdered child feel. Completely inappropriate and offensive to the parents who genuinely know how it feels.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Ok. That's a fair point.Devils_Advocate wrote:Slavery is one of the most horrendous events of modern Western society so to glibly liken your plight to it could be pretty offensive. Plus there is the context of who is saying it and their views and stated opinions that makes a difference.
Had a remain MP given a speech likening themselves to the allied forces in WW2 fighting against the Brexit national populists (Nazi's) to remain in the EU and fight the rise of fascism do you not think there would have been an absolute outcry from the right? (be honest)
Im not offended by what was said and in fact from my perspective it is good that horrible people like her out herself and bring attention to her horrible views she has expressed over the years. I can however see why there would be a reaction just like they would on the other side with the example I have given you
The reason things like this confuse me though, is because martin didnt seem really offended by the slave comparison a few weeks ago when a labour MP did this
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source= ... 7591962491" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Maybe hes just in one of those moods today
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
True, but then as I rule I’m not offended by things I’m not aware of. Besides, you’re putting words into my mouth again, I never said that I was personally offended by Widdecombe’s slavery rant, you just asked me what was offensive about it.Damo wrote:Ok. That's a fair point.
The reason things like this confuse me though, is because martin didnt seem really offended by the slave comparison a few weeks ago when a labour MP did this
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source= ... 7591962491" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Maybe hes just in one of those moods today
Last edited by martin_p on Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Nope - the reason things like this confuse you is that you’re not very bright.Damo wrote:Ok. That's a fair point.
The reason things like this confuse me though, is because martin didnt seem really offended by the slave comparison a few weeks ago when a labour MP did this
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source= ... 7591962491" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Maybe hes just in one of those moods today
Liking a tweet and standing up and giving a speech are not really the same thing, are they?
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
But, but, but he’s taken a Mensa test!Greenmile wrote:Nope - the reason things like this confuse you is that you’re not very bright.
Liking a tweet and standing up and giving a speech are not really the same thing, are they?
This user liked this post: Greenmile
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Ah, the intelligentsia is here.Greenmile wrote:Nope - the reason things like this confuse you is that you’re not very bright.
Liking a tweet and standing up and giving a speech are not really the same thing, are they?
Ok, so what about the context?
Widdicombe likened it to slaves, whereas the labour mp not only liked a tweet (implying that she agreed/endorsed it) that referred to slavery, while being anti-semitic too.
Are you saying one is less offensive than the other?