Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[martin_p]

Ah, the intelligentsia is here.

Ok, so what about the context?
Widdicombe likened it to slaves, whereas the labour mp not only liked a tweet (implying that she agreed/endorsed it) that referred to slavery, while being anti-semitic too.
Are you saying one is less offensive than the other?

If Widdecombe claims what she said was an accident and apologises then the two will be comparable.

Haven’t seen the original tweet that the MP liked them immediately unliked (according to her) but it sounds like it would probably cause offence.

[Damo]

If Widdecombe claims what she said was an accident and apologises then the two will be comparable.

Haven’t seen the original tweet that the MP liked them immediately unliked (according to her) but it sounds like it would probably cause offence.

Keep digging martin

[Greenmile]

Ah, the intelligentsia is here.

Ok, so what about the context?
Widdicombe likened it to slaves, whereas the labour mp not only liked a tweet (implying that she agreed/endorsed it) that referred to slavery, while being anti-semitic too.
Are you saying one is less offensive than the other?

Yes, I am.

I’ll leave it to you to figure out which one, with your giant, Mensa-accredited intellect.

[martin_p]

Keep digging martin

I'm answering your question. The original tweet (not seen) was probably offensive, but whether the MP liked it accidentally or not she's realised the accident (or not) might have caused offense and has issued a full apology. Now do you think Anne Widdecombe is going to apologise for causing offense or do you think she'll just carrying on saying things people find offensive?

[Damo]

Yes, I am.

I’ll leave it to you to figure out which one, with your giant, Mensa-accredited intellect.

I already did. Weeks before this. About the time the anti semitism thread was created

[Greenmile]

According to Damo’s link (which he probably didn’t read), there was a video attached to the tweet showing solidarity with the victims of the Christchurch terrorist attack, and the MP says she didn’t notice the offensive text attached to the video when she accidentally liked it.

Now you may find that an unlikely explanation but it’s a bit less unlikely than Widdecombe accidentally writing and giving an offensive speech and then accidentally refusing to apologise.

If you ask Damo, though, both acts were equally offensive, but that’s because he’s not very bright.

[Greenmile]

I already did. Weeks before this. About the time the anti semitism thread was created

So weeks before Widdecombe gave her speech you worked out that what this labour MP did was comparable to the speech which Widdecombe hadn’t given yet?

Did you learn how to see into the future at your Mensa meetings?

[martin_p]

According to Damo’s link (which he probably didn’t read), there was a video attached to the tweet showing solidarity with the victims of the Christchurch terrorist attack, and the MP says she didn’t notice the offensive text attached to the video when she accidentally liked it.

Now you may find that an unlikely explanation but it’s a bit less unlikely than Widdecombe accidentally writing and giving an offensive speech and then accidentally refusing to apologise.

If you ask Damo, though, both acts were equally offensive, but that’s because he’s not very bright.

Don’t forget, Damo would never draw attention to a tweet without being fully aware of the content of anything linked in that tweet, so you can understand any scepticism he may have said over ‘accidents’

[Damo]

So weeks before Widdecombe gave her speech you worked out that what this labour MP did was comparable to the speech which Widdecombe hadn’t given yet?

Did you learn how to see into the future at your Mensa meetings?

Yeah. I worked out that you are not offended by words or what they mean. It's the person that says them that offends you.
I would have expected somebody as bright as you to have understood the entire purpose of that thread.

Perhaps everyone (including yourself) over estimated you

[martin_p]

Yeah. I worked out that you are not offended by words or what they mean. It's the person that says them that offends you.
I would have expected somebody as bright as you to have understood the entire purpose of that thread.

Perhaps everyone (including yourself) over estimated you

Well the Labour MP never said any of the words, so using your own logic no one could be offended by her!

[Greenmile]

Yeah. I worked out that you are not offended by words or what they mean. It's the person that says them that offends you.
I would have expected somebody as bright as you to have understood the entire purpose of that thread.

Perhaps everyone (including yourself) over estimated you

This is (almost) correct and quite insightful. I’m impressed.

I am rarely offended by words, and yet some folk offend me, usually by their actions.

Exceptions to this general rule include lying (with a view to tricking others into agreeing with you), and inciting violence.

[dsr]

Slavery is one of the most horrendous events of modern Western society ...

I thought slavery had been abolished in modern Western society?

[Greenmile]

I thought slavery had been abolished in modern Western society?

You thought wrong.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36416751" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Damo]

This is (almost) correct and quite insightful. I’m impressed.

I am rarely offended by words, and yet some folk offend me, usually by their actions.

Exceptions to this general rule include lying (with a view to tricking others into agreeing with you), and inciting violence.

QED

[Greenmile]

QED

You really shouldn’t try using terms that you don’t understand, just because you saw someone brighter than you use them on a messageboard once.

[Devils_Advocate]

I thought slavery had been abolished in modern Western society?

I was using the term modern relatively to the history of civilisation as in the last few thousand years there has been lots of horrific things but slavery and its impact is still relatively recent.

But fair enough most people would think of modernism from the early 20th century so i'll except your correction and Im just glad we got that sorted out

[dsr]

You thought wrong.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36416751" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I suppose. It's like the abolition of hanging, I suppose - someone was hanged in the UK last year, so it means Parliament hasn't abolished hanging. In a sense. In the same way, slavery hasn't been abolished as long as a single person is illegally kept as a slave.

But I suspect you knew that wasn't what I meant. Apologies if you didn't.

[dsr]

I was using the term modern relatively to the history of civilisation as in the last few thousand years there has been lots of horrific things but slavery and its impact is still relatively recent.

But fair enough most people would think of modernism from the early 20th century so i'll except your correction and Im just glad we got that sorted out

Surely slavery has been going on throughout mankind's known history? It's relatively recently that it has been largely abolished.

[Greenmile]

I suppose. It's like the abolition of hanging, I suppose - someone was hanged in the UK last year, so it means Parliament hasn't abolished hanging. In a sense. In the same way, slavery hasn't been abolished as long as a single person is illegally kept as a slave.

But I suspect you knew that wasn't what I meant. Apologies if you didn't.

Fair enough. I suppose you could say it’s been “abolished” but not “eradicated”.

[Devils_Advocate]

Surely slavery has been going on throughout mankind's known history? It's relatively recently that it has been largely abolished.

Yep but when we talk about Slavery in the context it has been discussed I think pretty much everyone talks about it in terms of the legal institution of human enslavement in America in the 18th and 19th century's.

to quoute your good self "But I suspect you knew that wasn't what I meant. Apologies if you didn't"

[tiger76]

I thought slavery had been abolished in modern Western society?

Sadly no it just takes a different form nowadays,as in this case of people trafficking and other various offences.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... m-48881327

[dsr]

Yep but when we talk about Slavery in the context it has been discussed I think pretty much everyone talks about it in terms of the legal institution of human enslavement in America in the 18th and 19th century's.

to quoute your good self "But I suspect you knew that wasn't what I meant. Apologies if you didn't"

Actually, no, not really. I was thinking of slavery in much more general terms, including throughout the British Empire until 1830 or so, and Roman and Egyptian slavery in ancient times, and also the modern-slavery that goes on in (eg.) Qatar where they take the passports off the building workers so thay can't leave.

US slavery in literal terms is well beyond living memory, of course, but the Southern states' "Jim Crow" laws weren't abolished until a hundred years later which amounted to oppression, if not actual slavery. It's quite interesting in the US Constitution museum (Philadelphia) how they don't quite state the fact that the founding fathers' statement "We believe that all men are created equal" was a blatant lie; but they are pretty shamefaced about it.

[Devils_Advocate]

Actually, no, not really. I was thinking of slavery in much more general terms, including throughout the British Empire until 1830 or so, and Roman and Egyptian slavery in ancient times, and also the modern-slavery that goes on in (eg.) Qatar where they take the passports off the building workers so thay can't leave.

US slavery in literal terms is well beyond living memory, of course, but the Southern states' "Jim Crow" laws weren't abolished until a hundred years later which amounted to oppression, if not actual slavery. It's quite interesting in the US Constitution museum (Philadelphia) how they don't quite state the fact that the founding fathers' statement "We believe that all men are created equal" was a blatant lie; but they are pretty shamefaced about it.

Great well that little point hardly relevant to what my post was about is finally cleared up. If you'd like to comment on the actual argument and opinion of my original post please feel free but if you want to witter on about needless things i'll leave you too it cos I feel ive already wasted too much time discussing this with you.

[dsr]

Had a remain MP given a speech likening themselves to the allied forces in WW2 fighting against the Brexit national populists (Nazi's) to remain in the EU and fight the rise of fascism do you not think there would have been an absolute outcry from the right? (be honest)

What do you mean, if? Ever heard of David Lammy? He went a good deal further than you are suggesting, and I don't remember an "absolute outcry". (He got much more of an outcry for his Comic Relief comments.)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... avid-lammy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RingoMcCartney]

The EU free moment of people rule makes people trafficking , exploitation and modern day slavery easier.

Members of a gang behind the biggest modern-day slavery network ever exposed in the UK have been jailed.

Police believe more than 400 victims were put to work in the West Midlands by the organised crime gang.

They tricked vulnerable people from Poland into England with the promise of work and a better lifestyle.

But their victims were made to live in rat-infested houses and worked menial jobs, it can now be reported after reporting restrictions were lifted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... m-48881327" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anybody who wants to deny democracy, stop Brexit and end free movement of people and remain on the EU. Are giving there approval for modern day slavery to continue on industrial scale in the UK.

Shame on you Remoaners.

[Devils_Advocate]

What do you mean, if? Ever heard of David Lammy? He went a good deal further than you are suggesting, and I don't remember an "absolute outcry". (He got much more of an outcry for his Comic Relief comments.)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... avid-lammy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just google or search Twitter for David Lammy ERG and you'll see plenty of outcry and criticism in both the news and on social media for his comments

[dsr]

The EU free moment of people rule makes people trafficking , exploitation and modern day slavery easier.

Members of a gang behind the biggest modern-day slavery network ever exposed in the UK have been jailed.

Police believe more than 400 victims were put to work in the West Midlands by the organised crime gang.

They tricked vulnerable people from Poland into England with the promise of work and a better lifestyle.

But their victims were made to live in rat-infested houses and worked menial jobs, it can now be reported after reporting restrictions were lifted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... m-48881327" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anybody who wants to deny democracy, stop Brexit and end free movement of people and remain on the EU. Are giving there approval for modern day slavery to continue on industrial scale in the UK.

Shame on you Remoaners.

They could have done that without being in the EU. Rackmann was doing the same sort of thing in the sixties. No amount of law or political system can give protection against people who don't obey the law; it would be no harder to get Poles into the country when we are outsde the EU (they would still need a passport) and there would be no more likelihood of the authorities keeping track on them and checking they weren't being treated as slaves, if we were outside the EU.

[aggi]

The EU free moment of people rule makes people trafficking , exploitation and modern day slavery easier.

Members of a gang behind the biggest modern-day slavery network ever exposed in the UK have been jailed.

Police believe more than 400 victims were put to work in the West Midlands by the organised crime gang.

They tricked vulnerable people from Poland into England with the promise of work and a better lifestyle.

But their victims were made to live in rat-infested houses and worked menial jobs, it can now be reported after reporting restrictions were lifted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... m-48881327" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anybody who wants to deny democracy, stop Brexit and end free movement of people and remain on the EU. Are giving there approval for modern day slavery to continue on industrial scale in the UK.

Shame on you Remoaners.

I was expecting your link to include something about The EU free moment of people rule makes people trafficking , exploitation and modern day slavery easier.. Was it the wrong one?

[AndrewJB]

The EU free moment of people rule makes people trafficking , exploitation and modern day slavery easier.

Members of a gang behind the biggest modern-day slavery network ever exposed in the UK have been jailed.

Police believe more than 400 victims were put to work in the West Midlands by the organised crime gang.

They tricked vulnerable people from Poland into England with the promise of work and a better lifestyle.

But their victims were made to live in rat-infested houses and worked menial jobs, it can now be reported after reporting restrictions were lifted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... m-48881327" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anybody who wants to deny democracy, stop Brexit and end free movement of people and remain on the EU. Are giving there approval for modern day slavery to continue on industrial scale in the UK.

Shame on you Remoaners.

If we're leaving the EU, I'd like us to retain free movement.

[CrosspoolClarets]

It seems to me to be clear as day that freedom of movement, which I view as abhorrent in its motives, encourages this behaviour.

The freedom of movement of people has existed since the 1950s but of course there were few states then. The EU claims this is to prevent discrimination on the grounds of nationality but if this were so, strong regulations (let’s be fair, the EU likes strong regulations) would have been put in place to ensure migrants were not treated worse than at home. That they were not put in place tells us a story - this policy is about creating a federal Europe, not to boost the lives of citizens.

The Polish victims may not have spoken good English (a requirement of any skills based migration system I would support) and did not need to have a job lined up. The system has made it easy to exploit them. The EU have totally neglected people in their craze for a federal Europe, free movement with much tighter monitoring and regulation, with closer checks on people’s movements and lifestyles, would still have led to similar economic benefits.

I would say though that our own government don’t care much for addressing this, or they would have brought in some of the controls they were allowed to. The EU is not entirely to blame.

I would also say though that the employers, presumably British people, should also be prosecuted, and if not, the law should be changed. They have a duty of care to anyone working under them.

Shameful, the whole sorry thing.

[LeuvenClaret]

The EU free moment of people rule makes people trafficking , exploitation and modern day slavery easier.

Members of a gang behind the biggest modern-day slavery network ever exposed in the UK have been jailed.

Police believe more than 400 victims were put to work in the West Midlands by the organised crime gang.

They tricked vulnerable people from Poland into England with the promise of work and a better lifestyle.

But their victims were made to live in rat-infested houses and worked menial jobs, it can now be reported after reporting restrictions were lifted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... m-48881327" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anybody who wants to deny democracy, stop Brexit and end free movement of people and remain on the EU. Are giving there approval for modern day slavery to continue on industrial scale in the UK.

Shame on you Remoaners.

Ringo what provision did the UK take to control free movement once it was agreed on the EU and not in the Uk?

Free movement in the EU has controls, but I didn’t see any in the UK.

[Elizabeth]

I'll answer that Ringo if you want

And we are leaving the EU so there is no 'If' we leave the EU. 17.4 million UK citizens say so.

[LeuvenClaret]

I'll answer that Ringo if you want

And we are leaving the EU so there is no 'If' we leave the EU. 17.4 million UK citizens say so.

That doesn’t answer the question at all ringo

[nil_desperandum]

I'll answer that Ringo if you want

And we are leaving the EU so there is no 'If' we leave the EU. 17.4 million UK citizens say so.

How does that post answer the question posed to Ringo? (Puzzled)
Edit; Leuven pointed this out first, but the question remains.

[Elizabeth]

She thinks is there a smiley or blank face attached to the response. Because she is generous she opts for a smiley

[nil_desperandum]

She thinks is there a smiley or blank face attached to the response. Because she is generous she opts for a smiley

Ringo what provision did the UK take to control free movement once it was agreed on the EU and not in the Uk?

Just to clarify, it's the above question that you volunteered to answer, but made no attempt to do so.

[Elizabeth]

Maybe she is responding to two posts and needs to make this clearer for the benefit of those whose spectacles sit perilously close to the end of their nose.

[Elizabeth]

Oh my sweet mother. Some really think it is one poster

[Elizabeth]

Chill out. Can you not see I'm having some fun with you

[LeuvenClaret]

Chill out. Can you not see I'm having some fun with you

As you posted to me once ... Ehh? Can you speak English

[LeuvenClaret]

Chill out. Can you not see I'm having some fun with you

As you posted to me once ... Ehh? Can you speak English

[LeuvenClaret]

Free movement there’s a UK quandary

[Elizabeth]

I am almost embarrassed for you but am chuckling so much.
Let me help you.

Now for this to work you have to get it out of your head that 'Ringo' and 'Elizabeth' are the same person.

If you can do that then look back to my first post tonight and a post at 9929.

You might then just see that this is your problem

[LeuvenClaret]

I am almost embarrassed for you but am chuckling so much.
Let me help you.

Now for this to work you have to get it out of your head that 'Ringo' and 'Elizabeth' are the same person.

If you can do that then look back to my first post tonight and a post at 9929.

You might then just see that this is your problem

I was talking about free movement

[Elizabeth]

I know what you were asking the poster known as Ringo.
I don't know, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that you don't know about the remoaners 'get out of jail' card on here by using the Ringo is Elizabeth /Elizabeth is Ringo response when they are cornered and have no other response. We both do it regularly, corner the remoaners I mean.
Read this: Ringo will come on to respond to your question. You will then see certain remoaners coming with posts like 'creepy' etc.

I hope you have read my posts tonight with your mind set on Elizabeth is a different person to Ringo. Believe me, in the long run, it will all make sense.

[LeuvenClaret]

I know what you were asking the poster known as Ringo.
I don't know, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that you don't know about the remoaners 'get out of jail' card on here by using the Ringo is Elizabeth /Elizabeth is Ringo response when they are cornered and have no other response. We both do it regularly, corner the remoaners I mean.
Read this: Ringo will come on to respond to your question. You will then see certain remoaners coming with posts like 'creepy' etc.

I hope you have read my posts tonight with your mind set on Elizabeth is a different person to Ringo. Believe me, in the long run, it will all make sense.

I was talking about free movement feel free to answer and not defend being Ringo... but to me you appear one.

Maybe defend the question and stop being defensive of being a ringo and maybe people would believe you.


My question still stands what did the UK do to defend its borders against free movement?

[Spijed]

Im not offended by what was said and in fact from my perspective it is good that horrible people like her out herself and bring attention to her horrible views she has expressed over the years. I can however see why there would be a reaction just like they would on the other side with the example I have given you

Sadly, her views pander exactly to the Blue Rinse brigade, at which they are targeted at, a group that looks down on those less fortunate, or having a different outlook on life.

[Cryssys]

Anybody who wants to deny democracy, stop Brexit and end free movement of people and remain on the EU. Are giving there approval for modern day slavery to continue on industrial scale in the UK. Shame on you Remoaners.

So, because I oppose Brexit and want to remain in the EU I'm giving my approval to modern day slavery! Bit of a leap even for you.

Look on the brightside though, in your words not mine, if you want to end free movement you're also approving slavery.

Anybody who wants to deny democracy, stop Brexit and end free movement of people and remain on the EU. Are giving there approval for modern day slavery to continue on industrial scale in the UK. Shame on you Remoaners.

Not your best effort.

[Elizabeth]

Part of me was hoping you might have had a little word with yourself.

Because I am in a jocular mood tonight, so and for me that helps me persevere with those I would normally have no time for, I am telling you again that Ringo will respond when he next returns to this thread.
Sheep follow sheep and that's why the expression exists.

I have concluded that it is a waste of my time to help you rationalise. So I'm going to go straight to the point with you.

Ringo, when not paranoid that I am a remoaner trying to mimic him ( yes Ringo, again I kindly say suggest you leave that idea alone), posts about laws etc. You will find that none of my posts go into in depth technical issues.
I am only concerned that the will of the 17.4 million is met.
I couldn't give a monkey's nuts about arguments about the single market and customs Union. I think too many people are brain washed by the biased media and political party politics.
I honestly only respect maybe one or two posters on threads such as this.

[Tall Paul]