Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:14 pm

Another democrat comes out for no deal......

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/ ... 5732956160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:15 pm

I see they're choosing a new president of the European Commission.

My ballot paper must have got lost in the post. Or could it be that this beacon of democracy that remoaners claim it to be. Doesn't see fit to let the people of Europe have a say, in who becomes the head of the body The Commission , which has the sole power to propose legislation, which will effect every single one of them!!!!?

Tony Benn would give them something to think about-

Ask the powerful five questions:

WHAT POWER HAVE YOU GOT?

WHERE DID YOU GET IT FROM?

IN WHOSE INTERESTS DO YOU EXERCISE IT?

TO WHOM ARE YOU ACCOUNTABLE?

HOW CAN WE GET RID OF YOU?

(Aggi will be along soon telling me to repent from such heretical and sacrilegious talk against the EU)

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:53 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:I see they're choosing a new president of the European Commission.

My ballot paper must have got lost in the post. Or could it be that this beacon of democracy that remoaners claim it to be. Doesn't see fit to let the people of Europe have a say, in who becomes the head of the body The Commission , which has the sole power to propose legislation, which will effect every single one of them!!!!?

Tony Benn would give them something to think about-

Ask the powerful five questions:

WHAT POWER HAVE YOU GOT?

WHERE DID YOU GET IT FROM?

IN WHOSE INTERESTS DO YOU EXERCISE IT?

TO WHOM ARE YOU ACCOUNTABLE?

HOW CAN WE GET RID OF YOU?

(Aggi will be along soon telling me to repent from such heretical and sacrilegious talk against the EU)

I see they’re choosing a new Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. My ballot paper must have got lost in the post......

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:09 pm

martin_p wrote:I see they’re choosing a new Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. My ballot paper must have got lost in the post......

You can get rid of a uk pm and/or his or her party at the next GE.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:12 pm

summitclaret wrote:You can get rid of a uk pm and/or his or her party at the next GE.

They’re choosing a new Euro Commissioner as a result of the recent Euro Elections.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:14 pm

"They" being the operative word...

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:15 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:"They" being the operative word...

Yes. "They" being the people we told to go and do that.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:15 pm

martin_p wrote:They’re choosing a new Euro Commissioner as a result of the recent Euro Elections.

And person will not be elected by an eu citizen directly. It's a sham.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:16 pm

summitclaret wrote:And person will not be elected by an eu citizen directly. It's a sham.

The people casting votes for them aren't EU citizens?

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:17 pm

summitclaret wrote:And person will not be elected by an eu citizen directly. It's a sham.

So a U.K PM elected by 0.25% of the electorate is more legitimate?

All the Euro MEPs have to vote anyway, they’re citizens as well.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:25 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:I see they're choosing a new president of the European Commission.

My ballot paper must have got lost in the post. Or could it be that this beacon of democracy that remoaners claim it to be. Doesn't see fit to let the people of Europe have a say, in who becomes the head of the body The Commission , which has the sole power to propose legislation, which will effect every single one of them!!!!?

Tony Benn would give them something to think about-

Ask the powerful five questions:

WHAT POWER HAVE YOU GOT?

WHERE DID YOU GET IT FROM?

IN WHOSE INTERESTS DO YOU EXERCISE IT?

TO WHOM ARE YOU ACCOUNTABLE?

HOW CAN WE GET RID OF YOU?

(Aggi will be along soon telling me to repent from such heretical and sacrilegious talk against the EU)

I think we should first establish if you know what you're talking about. Your comedy bias does make it a bit unclear whether you don't understand or are wilfully misrepresenting things. So, a few questions:

Who nominates the President of the EC?

How did those people get into the position where they could nominate the President?

Who approves or vetoes their selection of the President?

How did those people get into the position where they could approve or veto the President?

Now if you can't answer those questions it is clear you don't know what you are talking about.

If you can answer those questions then we can discuss how democratic or not the process is.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:46 pm

martin_p wrote:I see they’re choosing a new Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. My ballot paper must have got lost in the post......

Yep!

Along with your 2 year old evidence!

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:52 pm

aggi wrote:I think we should first establish if you know what you're talking about. Your comedy bias does make it a bit unclear whether you don't understand or are wilfully misrepresenting things. So, a few questions:

Who nominates the President of the EC?

How did those people get into the position where they could nominate the President?

Who approves or vetoes their selection of the President?

How did those people get into the position where they could approve or veto the President?

Now if you can't answer those questions it is clear you don't know what you are talking about.

If you can answer those questions then we can discuss how democratic or not the process is.

As predicted!!

Hang the blasphemers!

When I receive my ballot paper I'll say you're no longer talking a complete load of europhile ballots!!

A timely reminder of when the Labour Party was the working class party, before it became Islington Dinner Party. And the natural choice for the residents of the metropolitan London Borough of Ivory Towers. Eh Aggi.?

https://youtu.be/Z0z10y3N18I" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:56 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:I see they're choosing a new president of the European Commission.

My ballot paper must have got lost in the post. Or could it be that this beacon of democracy that remoaners claim it to be. Doesn't see fit to let the people of Europe have a say, in who becomes the head of the body The Commission , which has the sole power to propose legislation, which will effect every single one of them!!!!?

Tony Benn would give them something to think about-

Ask the powerful five questions:

WHAT POWER HAVE YOU GOT?

WHERE DID YOU GET IT FROM?

IN WHOSE INTERESTS DO YOU EXERCISE IT?

TO WHOM ARE YOU ACCOUNTABLE?

HOW CAN WE GET RID OF YOU?

(Aggi will be along soon telling me to repent from such heretical and sacrilegious talk against the EU)

Doesn’t the Brexit Party leadership work in exactly the same way?

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:14 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:As predicted!!

Hang the blasphemers!

When I receive my ballot paper I'll say you're no longer talking a complete load of europhile ballots!!

A timely reminder of when the Labour Party was the working class party, before it became Islington Dinner Party. And the natural choice for the residents of the metropolitan London Borough of Ivory Towers. Eh Aggi.?

https://youtu.be/Z0z10y3N18I" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As predicted Ringo doesn't know how the President of the EC is appointed. Another entertaining stance that he's taken from a position of ignorance where he'll never admit to having educated himself as it will invalidate his point.

Why bother with facts when you have capital letters?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:05 pm

AndyClaret wrote:Another democrat comes out for no deal......

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/ ... 5732956160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's democratic about a "no deal" brexit?
Can you supply any evidence from any source whatever that says that a majority of voters in 2016, or a majority of the public now support "no deal"?
The majority in 2016 was for Brexit with the EASY deal that was promised.
Who knows how people would vote today, but there's no evidence that it's for "no deal"

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:37 pm

Anyone else noticed this little shift in the goalposts over the last few months by remainers?

Their current position is now - no one voted for no deal, so we shouldn't leave/need a new vote.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:45 pm

It's funny how remainers are suddenly interested in democracy, after spending 3 years trying to have it abolished

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:55 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Anyone else noticed this little shift in the goalposts over the last few months by remainers?

Their current position is now - no one voted for no deal, so we shouldn't leave/need a new vote.

I suspect it's in response to the Brexit position where leaving with No Deal has gone from being a remote possibility (a deal being "one of the easiest in human history" and "there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market." etc.) to a good idea.

I can't believe that I'm having to point out to you that an opposing side may not be entirely innocent in this.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:56 pm

Damo wrote:It's funny how remainers are suddenly interested in democracy, after spending 3 years trying to have it abolished

Interesting Damo. Are you for democracy or not?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:09 pm

aggi wrote:As predicted Ringo doesn't know how the President of the EC is appointed. Another entertaining stance that he's taken from a position of ignorance where he'll never admit to having educated himself as it will invalidate his point.

Why bother with facts when you have capital letters?

Why bother with democracy when you can cling onto the EU!

Hang the heretics Brother Aggi, for it is they that will attemot to bring about the wanton destruction to our Consecrated Union and it's many cathedrals.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:15 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:What's democratic about a "no deal" brexit?
Can you supply any evidence from any source whatever that says that a majority of voters in 2016, or a majority of the public now support "no deal"?
The majority in 2016 was for Brexit with the EASY deal that was promised.
Who knows how people would vote today, but there's no evidence that it's for "no deal"

I can supply evidence, should it be needed, that the vast majority of MPs, (who were elected on manifesto pledges to accept , respect and implement the referendum result ) voted to trigger Article 50.

Article 50 states that the UK will leave the EU on March 29th 2019. WITH OR WITHOUT A WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

You can huff and puff all you like about what people did or did not vote for. That is enshrined in current UK law.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:16 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Doesn’t the Brexit Party leadership work in exactly the same way?

No.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:22 pm

martin_p wrote:So a U.K PM elected by 0.25% of the electorate is more legitimate?

All the Euro MEPs have to vote anyway, they’re citizens as well.

In 2007, Tony Blair resigned as Prime Minister and Labour Leader and Brown was chosen to replace him in an uncontested election. and became prime minister.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:27 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:In 2007, Tony Blair resigned as Prime Minister and Labour Leader and Brown was chosen to replace him in an uncontested election. and became prime minister.

There's a more recent example of an uncontested election to select a PM that you could talk about. I wonder why you didn't mention that one.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:28 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:No.

How would Nige answer the five powerful questions then?

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:28 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Why bother with democracy when you can cling onto the EU!

Hang the heretics Brother Aggi, for it is they that will attemot to bring about the wanton destruction to our Consecrated Union and it's many cathedrals.

That's a lot of hyperbole. Are you hoping that people won't notice that you're unwilling or unable to answer these questions?

Who nominates the President of the EC?

How did those people get into the position where they could nominate the President?

Who approves or vetoes their selection of the President?

How did those people get into the position where they could approve or veto the President?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:29 pm

martin_p wrote:So a U.K PM elected by 0.25% of the electorate is more legitimate?

All the Euro MEPs have to vote anyway, they’re citizens as well.

So 751 get to choose the next President of the European Commission.

What about the 399,999,249!!!!!???

I demand a Peoples Vote!

Quick! Look busy! Witchfinder General Aggi is coming. Get the rosary beads out grandma !!!

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:29 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:In 2007, Tony Blair resigned as Prime Minister and Labour Leader and Brown was chosen to replace him in an uncontested election. and became prime minister.

How is that relevant? Some excellent but unconvincing deflection going on here.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:30 pm

aggi wrote:That's a lot of hyperbole. Are you hoping that people won't notice that you're unwilling or unable to answer these questions?

Who nominates the President of the EC?

How did those people get into the position where they could nominate the President?

Who approves or vetoes their selection of the President?

How did those people get into the position where they could approve or veto the President?

#JUSTICE FOR THE 399,999,249

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:33 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:So 751 get to choose the next President of the European Commission.

What about the 399,999,249!!!!!???

That 399,999,249 chose the 751 to do this job. Why do you think we voted for these 751 people? Did you not know that when you cast your vote for an MEP that you were voting for someone to cast a vote for President? Are you really that uninformed?

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:34 pm

If there was a public vote on No Deal it would be overwhelmingly rejected. Of that I have no doubts. The position we are in as a nation now upsets the 17 m plus who voted leave and the vast majority of remain voters who accepted the referendum result.
All would consider themselves as democratic.
However over the last couple of years they have been questioned.

I have no respect for the people behind the People's Vote movement. The reason being that the movement was started months before anybody knew what Theresa May's deal was.

I would have thought it only right to wait until that deal was known before starting to campaign for a 2nd referendum. That to me shows that some people never wanted to accept the 2016 result in the first place.

If anybody can tell me that the timing of the People's Vote campaign was right I am only too happy to listen to their reasoning.

I think this is a fair post and deserves a fair response.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:35 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:That 399,999,249 chose the 751 to do this job. Why do you think we voted for these 751 people? Did you not know that when you cast your vote for an MEP that you were voting for someone to cast a vote for President? Are you really that uninformed?

He must think that he should also get a vote on every parliamentary vote as well then.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:35 pm

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:35 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:How is that relevant? Some excellent but unconvincing deflection going on here.

How is it not?

Marty whining that 0.25 % of the electorate will vote for the next PM.

There was only one single ballot paper when Gordon "I've abolished boom and bust" Brown became PM and that went to the War Criminal Bliar.

Some unconvincing pretending something is relevant when clearly it is.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:35 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:I can supply evidence, should it be needed, that the vast majority of MPs, (who were elected on manifesto pledges to accept , respect and implement the referendum result ) voted to trigger Article 50.

Article 50 states that the UK will leave the EU on March 29th 2019. WITH OR WITHOUT A WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

You can huff and puff all you like about what people did or did not vote for. That is enshrined in current UK law.

We voted to leave. No where on the ballot did it say anything about WHEN we would leave.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:36 pm

And almost as if by magic "Elizabeth" and Edward arrive.!

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:38 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:We voted to leave. No where on the ballot did it say anything about WHEN we would leave.

When MPS triggered article 50 it did.

Talking of triggered don't you have a Trump thread to go to!?

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:38 pm

Is the prick list still active?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:40 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:How is it not?

Marty whining that 0.25 % of the electorate will vote for the next PM.

There was only one single ballot paper when Gordon "I've abolished boom and bust" Brown became PM and that went to the War Criminal Bliar.

Some unconvincing pretending something is relevant when clearly it is.

Actually, no. Gordon Brown was challenged by John McDonnell but McDonnell didn't receive the support of enough MPs to run against Gordon Brown. 313 Labour MPs nominated Gordon Brown versus McDonnell's 29.

No one else decided to run for leadership.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:41 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:How is it not?

Marty whining that 0.25 % of the electorate will vote for the next PM.

There was only one single ballot paper when Gordon "I've abolished boom and bust" Brown became PM and that went to the War Criminal Bliar.

Some unconvincing pretending something is relevant when clearly it is.

I’m not sure he was whining, just pointing out that our system got electing leaders isn’t much better than the EU. Then you provide another example to prove his point.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:42 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:#JUSTICE FOR THE 399,999,249

So, unwilling or unable to answer?

I'm guessing unwilling.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:44 pm

Monday 15th July "Re: Maguire goes to United:

"Elizabeth" posts at 9.15

"Tarks has a couple of errors in his game that I am not convinced he is capable of improving on.
He dawdles on the ball from time to time, looking clumsy and vulnerable.
He tries to convince himself he can hit long pinpoint balls. Many go out of touch, yet he persists.
I think it would be good for Burnley if we got one of these over the top fees for him and then had Gibson come into the team next to Mee.
My opinion."

Very next poster shortly after

Evensteadiereddie "

"

"

Bit of a pattern.......

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:49 pm

Ringo, you'd better get onto the BBC:

Germany's Ursula von der Leyen has been narrowly elected president of the EU Commission

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49010801" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:50 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Actually, no. Gordon Brown was challenged by John McDonnell but McDonnell didn't receive the support of enough MPs to run against Gordon Brown. 313 Labour MPs nominated Gordon Brown versus McDonnell's 29.

No one else decided to run for leadership.

Blair said he expected Gordon Brown to succeed him, and that Brown "would make an excellent Prime Minister". When nominations for the leadership elections opened, Blair was one of those nominating Brown.[6] From the start, most observers considered Brown the overwhelming favourite to succeed Blair; John McDonnell, his only challenger, failed to secure enough nominations in order to get onto the ballot, and conceded defeat.[7] Brown received 313 (88.2%) nominations to McDonnell's 29 (8.2%), making it mathematically impossible for anyone other than Brown to be nominated.
The election process concluded with Brown being declared leader at a special conference on 24 June 2007. On 27 June, Blair resigned as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and was succeeded by Brown.[8]

Nobody wanted to upset Our Glorious Leader.

Brown became prime minister North Korea Style!

Now have you not got to and get angry somewhere?

Trigger off!

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:51 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:I’m not sure he was whining, just pointing out that our system got electing leaders isn’t much better than the EU. Then you provide another example to prove his point.

So it was relevant after all.

Fair enough.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:53 pm

aggi wrote:I think we should first establish if you know what you're talking about. Your comedy bias does make it a bit unclear whether you don't understand or are wilfully misrepresenting things. So, a few questions:

Who nominates the President of the EC?

How did those people get into the position where they could nominate the President?

Who approves or vetoes their selection of the President?

How did those people get into the position where they could approve or veto the President?

Now if you can't answer those questions it is clear you don't know what you are talking about.

If you can answer those questions then we can discuss how democratic or not the process is.

Hang on, you haven't answered the question. I'll have a go, and you can correct where I've gone wrong:

WHAT POWER HAVE YOU GOT? Oh, you wouldn't believe! We are the only ones allowed to propose new European laws (bar in some exceptional circumstance), and these laws trounce your silly domestic ones, the ones your democracies passed. We are also the arbiters of whether an EU member has broken the rules of the treaties (you want to bail out British Steel? Do you now?), We also negotiate ever-lasting trade agreements like TTIP and CETA, the ones that mean corporations can sue national governments if they harm their economic interests.

WHERE DID YOU GET IT FROM? We were appointed by heads of state, but we are duty bound in law to represent only the EU, and not individual member states. Our first duty is to uphold the treaties of the EU - those ones like Maastricht and Lisbon that you didn't actually get to vote on.

IN WHOSE INTERESTS DO YOU EXERCISE IT? Corporate. Why the hell else would we have passed CETA??

TO WHOM ARE YOU ACCOUNTABLE?Once appointed, effectively no one. The Parliament can pass a vote of no confidence if they want to, but then we'll just be replaced again, and have the same powers and same obligations as before, so there isn't much point doing that, really. Parliament doesn't get a say on who is appointed, of course.

HOW CAN WE GET RID OF YOU? God knows. And it doesn't really matter whether you can or not, because we'll still act in the interests of corporate lobbyists anyway. And we'll still carry out our duty to uphold the treaties whichever group of humans actually sit on it. And those treaties last forever.

Should I get started on your questions now?

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:55 pm

Ringo, to fill you in .

Evensteadiereddie is miffed following the short ditty I composed about him last week.
His post at 10184 would have been in response to my post one minute earlier. However he did not know you were going to post so it looks like he's laughing at you when he was posting to laugh at me . Never mind Eddie.
Some posters are intent on pushing me off this topic but will find that difficult.

People's Vote campaign anyone?

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:56 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:So it was relevant after all.

Fair enough.

Yes, but not relevant to your side of the argument. In fact, it completely contradicted the point you were trying to make.

Log off Ringo, you’re having a mare.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:57 pm

aggi wrote:Ringo, you'd better get onto the BBC:

Germany's Ursula von der Leyen has been narrowly elected president of the EU Commission

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49010801" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Great news for you Aggi.

No doubt you'll be relaying the news to your new High Priestess that there are sinister plots being hatched in Pendle Witch country requesting funds for the immediate erecting of gallows and ducking stools in order to wheedle out and punish all those who dare blaspheme agsinst the Brussels Deity and worship the false idols of Sovereignty, democracy and self determination.

#Damn the Unholy Trinity.