Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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martin_p
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:43 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 25596.html

Knock yourself out.

Specifically the part where we'd have to agree to non regression rules etc if we want a deal.
' Chief negotiator Michel Barnier has said the bloc would seek non-regression clauses to ensure Britain does not backslide on rules and try to undercut its neighbours.'

That's something they'd be looking for in a trade deal, not a threat of no deal. If we didn't agree to that we may get a lesser deal. However, if you read the rest of the article we've already decided to do it of our own accord anyway, so it wouldn't really work as a threat even if it was one!

aggi
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:43 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Just as soon as you can explain why we should allow the EU to threaten us with no deal if we don't accept decisions they make and want us to include in our laws etc even if we are out of the EU...

That's what is going on and you're all saying I'm the chimp for not seeing why we should bend over and get bummed by the EU.
Which decisions/laws are these?

This started with the discussion about workers' rights but the proposal there was that the UK parliament would have a vote on whether to accept EU labour laws, not that they have to be included in our laws.

EDIT: I see you've answered this when someone else asked it.

You do realise that "should include a non-regression clause and prevent the reduction of pre-Brexit standards" is a lot different to "no deal if we don't accept decisions they make and want us to include in our laws etc".

It's how a negotiation works, each side says what they would seek in a trade deal.

If you look at CETA there's a whole load of stuff about labour laws, environmental protections, etc. Trade deals don't just involve goods going back and forth, there's a huge amount of underlying rules as well.
Last edited by aggi on Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dsr
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:44 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The absence of a law is not a law. Yes, his question was dumb, because it implies that the absence of a law IS a law, which is ******* moronic. Deliberately moronic, in my opinion, because that's what dsr resorts to when he sees that the conversation isn't going his way. He tries to muddy the waters with stupidity.
You aren't making sense. If the EU wants us to have the same law, they won't be impressed with being told that we don't have a law at all so it's OK. Not even if you go red in the face, start crying, throw Teddy out of the pram, and swear a lot. :lol:

RingoMcCartney
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:50 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Do you reach for stupid, or does it just fall on you all the time? That is obviously not what i'm saying, so why are you even asking that dumb question?
It really should be below you to sneer at some one who, you believe, is being stupid. Particularly when others, less fortunate than your good self , aren't in the position where, stupid just comes naturally......

Imploding Turtle
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:51 pm

dsr wrote:No asterisks this time. Well done.

Obviously it's clear to you what you meant. But only to you. The rest of us can't begin to fathom what is happening in that mind of yours, or what you mean when you say the apparent obvious.

I thought that when you talked about laws that enable us to provide cheaper labour and how we must have the same relevant laws as the EU, that you were talking the price of labour and laws relevant to the price of labour. Can't you even see how that misunderstanding could happen?

Now, obviously by laws relevant to the price of labour you were not talking about the minimum wage, as you so aggressively pointed out. Please could you,. politely and preferably without swearing, explain to everybody who is stupider than you (that would be all of us) what on earth you were on about?

How the **** are you not getting this? How are you not reaching this conclusion on your own?

The EU will never allow a leaving member to have better trade terms with the EU than it's own ******* members. That includes allowing us to have weaker workers' rights laws (for example) than the member states. It's just so ******* obvious.

What do you think will happen to the EU if they show their members that if they want a better trade deal with the EU then they should leave the EU? And then what happens to the EU when everyone leaves the EU in search of this better trade deal? Can i trust you with this line of logic? Can i trust you to reach the same conclusion that i reached? (No, i can't. There would be no EU)

How anyone could possibly think that the EU would give us the same free trade terms we have now, but without requiring us to also adopt EU laws and regulations. That would be the EU giving us a better trade deal than the other member states have.

aggi
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:59 pm

dsr wrote:That's not what we're saying. What we're saying is that negotiating from a position of "Give us what we want or there is no deal" is a stronger position than "give us what you want because we'll sign anything".

And the damage won't be that bad. The way people go on, you would think that leaving the EU would do almost as much damage as just voting to leave did - you know the 800,000 job losses and so on. Are the forecasts now as bad as the forecasts were then? (Double meaning intended.)
I agree, that isn't what you're saying. That is the reality though.

Or, if you're arguing that the damage won't be that bad, why is it such a negotiating poin?. If the damage won't be that bad then surely the EU won't be that worried about the threat.

It's either damaging enough to impact on the EU (and I think anyone with an ounce of sense would agree that it would impact on the UK far more) or not that damaging to the UK so even less of an issue to the EU. You can't have it both ways.

Imploding Turtle
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:05 pm

aggi wrote:... I think anyone with an ounce of sense would agree that it would impact on the UK far more
...
Image

I don't think you appreciate how little sense some of these people have.

Billy Balfour
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Billy Balfour » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:50 pm

martin_p wrote:Well that rules out a quick trade deal with the US if we leave with no deal then! Those pesky international treaties!
At least it's given the Republicans and Democrats something they can actually agree on.

Also, it's another fine example of Trump talking out of his arse and Boris sucking it up. Yep, those pesky trade deals, eh.

aggi
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:03 pm

Interesting funnel chart (from an LSE paper) showing how the various post-Brexit predictions are grouped. The oft-cited Minford obviously has very different views to everyone else but still a very wide spread between all of the forecasts

Image

Imploding Turtle
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:13 pm

Everything is fine in the car industry. Move along. Nothing to see here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49170387" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:17 pm

Not all the sector's woes can be blamed on Brexit, however. Eight out of every 10 cars built here are exported, and sales in a number of major markets have declined sharply in recent months.

As a result, shipments to China fell 53.1% in the first half of the year, while those to the US fell nearly 13%. More than half of the UK's exports go to the European Union - and demand there fell by 15.6%.

'Existential threat'
Meanwhile outside factors have also been blamed for Honda's recent announcement that it will close its plant in Swindon in 2021, Nissan's decision to build its new X-trail in Japan rather than in the UK and Ford's plan to shut its factory in Bridgend.
Save anyone the hassle of trawling through the article and for me to repeat what I wrote the other day.

Siddo
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£2.1 Billion

Post by Siddo » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:10 pm

You could not make it up.

Rick_Muller
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by Rick_Muller » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:11 pm

what?

tiger76
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by tiger76 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:12 pm

Is that McNeil's release clause? :)

tim_noone
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by tim_noone » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:13 pm

The new cricketfields stand will now cost that amount....on second thoughts the cost of the new corner stands...

occ-claret
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by occ-claret » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:15 pm

Sorry. The price of a twix in the concourse

nil_desperandum
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by nil_desperandum » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:17 pm

Siddo wrote:You could not make it up.
Assuming this refers to the Chancellor of the Exchequer and "no deal" brexit "budgeting" , I put the BBC link onto the "Boris" thread.

ElectroClaret
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by ElectroClaret » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:18 pm

Current balance of the dry powder store?

theroyaldyche
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by theroyaldyche » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:21 pm

Our worth

EarbyClaret
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by EarbyClaret » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:27 pm

Trading loss in the West Brom club shop since they sacked Tony Pulis?

Imploding Turtle
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:29 pm

Anyone remember the "Brexit dividend"? That was a lot of fun.

occ-claret
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by occ-claret » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:33 pm

The cost of 2.1 billion penny sweets

Lord Beamish
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by Lord Beamish » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:34 pm

occ-claret wrote:The cost of 2.1 billion penny sweets
Sold at £1 each?

Funkydrummer
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by Funkydrummer » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:37 pm

The eventual number of posts on adeola Friday ?

occ-claret
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by occ-claret » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:37 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:Sold at £1 each?
That's inflation for you

Imploding Turtle
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:42 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:Sold at £1 each?
The pound is pretty weak.

occ-claret
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by occ-claret » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:45 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The pound is pretty weak.
Boris will sort that out

Siddo
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by Siddo » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:06 pm

I am willing to bet that most replies were from leave voters unwilling to engage with the sheer lunacy of this government.

bfcjg
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by bfcjg » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:15 pm

Behind the seats in the Royal Dyche ?

willsclarets
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by willsclarets » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:26 pm

I don't blame the voters, I blame the disonesty of the leave campaign and the inadequacy of the remain campaign. I wouldn't even mind if we were leaving on a well thought out manifesto. What we have is a mess that leaves the very core of democracy in tatters. 2.1 billion here or there is secondary to the way we as the public are fed information, and are expected to act upon it with any kind of clarity.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:32 pm

I thought Brexit was funny before but with Johnson it's reached another level, it's like May on crack with the Benny Hill theme music playing.
May - "There's no magic money tree."
Johnson - "Rubbish, there's a splendiferus one of which we can all partook."

Imploding Turtle
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:41 pm

I wonder if this £2.1 billion will be called a bribe for Leave voters. I seem to remember that being the terminology used by certain people when other party leaders proposed benefits for students.

IanMcL
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by IanMcL » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:50 pm

occ-claret wrote:Boris will sort that out
He made it weaker, after the vote made it weak.

dsr
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by dsr » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:49 pm

willsclarets wrote:I don't blame the voters, I blame the disonesty of the leave campaign and the inadequacy of the remain campaign. I wouldn't even mind if we were leaving on a well thought out manifesto. What we have is a mess that leaves the very core of democracy in tatters. 2.1 billion here or there is secondary to the way we as the public are fed information, and are expected to act upon it with any kind of clarity.
To be fair, the Remain campaign gave all sorts of false figures of the meltdown that would follow the vote. They made it sound as bad as it could be. You don't think they frightened anyone into voting for Remain? You don't think any Remain voters were tempted into voting remain because they thought, wrongly, that the government might be telling the truth?

martin_p
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by martin_p » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:58 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I wonder if this £2.1 billion will be called a bribe for Leave voters. I seem to remember that being the terminology used by certain people when other party leaders proposed benefits for students.
Difference is Labour were promising benefits, all this £2bn is doing is making the catastrophe of a no deal Brexit a bit less s***!

AndyClaret
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by AndyClaret » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:09 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Anyone remember the "Brexit dividend"? That was a lot of fun.
Dry your eyes mate.

evensteadiereddie
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by evensteadiereddie » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:18 am

A witty and insightful response there, AndyC.
You're right, though, it is an embarrassing shambles.
Still, there's yesterday's by-election to cheer you up.
Oh, hang on.... :?

pushpinpussy
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by pushpinpussy » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:31 am

is it my latest bank statement

Rick_Muller
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by Rick_Muller » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:42 am

Siddo wrote:I am willing to bet that most replies were from leave voters unwilling to engage with the sheer lunacy of this government.
My reply was because you can’t just put a number on a thread on a football forum and expect people to have ESP and know what you’re on about. It had nothing to do with anything else Siddo. Just include a link to what you’re referencing or give more information.

Siddo
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by Siddo » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:01 am

Rick_Muller wrote:My reply was because you can’t just put a number on a thread on a football forum and expect people to have ESP and know what you’re on about. It had nothing to do with anything else Siddo. Just include a link to what you’re referencing or give more information.
So the main news topic of the week has been missed by everyone on here and they don't see the relevance of the title.
We have had 10 years of austerity and all of a sudden we find £2.1 billion to try to make Brexit a bit less disastrous. It could have paid for 420 thousand hip replacement operations, 54000 nurses, 28000 doctors, 2100 ct scanners and 6 new hospitals.
Instead it is being used to protect an ideological government that is intent on protecting its self interests.

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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by Rick_Muller » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:15 am

Siddo wrote:So the main news topic of the week has been missed by everyone on here and they don't see the relevance of the title.
We have had 10 years of austerity and all of a sudden we find £2.1 billion to try to make Brexit a bit less disastrous. It could have paid for 420 thousand hip replacement operations, 54000 nurses, 28000 doctors, 2100 ct scanners and 6 new hospitals.
Instead it is being used to protect an ideological government that is intent on protecting its self interests.
I’ll stop you right there Siddo. I am appalled at the way this government is f#cking over this country as much as you are, but you cannot go on a football forum and quote a single number and expect everyone to know what you’re on about. It may well be the biggest news story of the week, I hadn’t seen it. Apologies for not having the power of foresight or ESP to know what you meant. A simple link or more information in the original post would have clarified what you’re on about, or perhaps put it on the existing threads about Brexit, or did you want some attention...?

RingoMcCartney
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:40 am

Siddo wrote:So the main news topic of the week has been missed by everyone on here and they don't see the relevance of the title.
We have had 10 years of austerity and all of a sudden we find £2.1 billion to try to make Brexit a bit less disastrous. It could have paid for 420 thousand hip replacement operations, 54000 nurses, 28000 doctors, 2100 ct scanners and 6 new hospitals.
Instead it is being used to protect an ideological government that is intent on protecting its self interests.
Or you could take those Remoaner blinkers off, and see it as a government intent on actually, finally delivering on the largest single expression of democracy this country has ever witnessed.

Democracy- it means sometimes you lose.

RingoMcCartney
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:42 am

Big boost from the Brecon by election for the Brexit Party and the leave vote as a whole.

Using the remoaner logic following the council elections, when you add up all the leave votes, Brexit won!

Imploding Turtle
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:46 am

I'd love to see a graph of Ringobot's most often used outputs.

"largest single expression of democracy this country has ever witnessed" and "Democracy- it means sometimes you lose" must be among its top 5.

Devils_Advocate
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:47 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Big boost from the Brecon by election for the Brexit Party and the leave vote as a whole.

Using the remoaner logic following the council elections, when you add up all the leave votes, Brexit won!
Yes well done Leave. You lost the big European elections but managed to get a victory in Brecon :lol: :lol: :lol:

Glad you now agree with the Remain logic though Ringo well done for seeing sense

RingoMcCartney
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:57 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:Yes well done Leave. You lost the big European elections but managed to get a victory in Brecon :lol: :lol: :lol:

Glad you now agree with the Remain logic though Ringo well done for seeing sense
I don't you clown. Had a senseofhumourectomy have we?

:roll:

BigChaCha
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by BigChaCha » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:58 am

So what do you think would be said if we have a no deal Brexit and the Government hadn't prepared for it?

A lot of what's being put in place will be needed anyway even if we get a deal to help oil the cogs.

RingoMcCartney
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:58 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'd love to see a graph of Ringobot's most often used outputs.

"largest single expression of democracy this country has ever witnessed" and "Democracy- it means sometimes you lose" must be among its top 5.
Your top 3 would be -

1 ******

2 ****

3 *********

:lol: :lol:

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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by Rick_Muller » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:01 am

I've asked for this to be moved to the Brexit thread

RingoMcCartney
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Re: £2.1 Billion

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:03 am

Remoaners prior to Boris - "this is going to be an absolute cliff edge, an utter disaster. There's been no planning or preparation and the country is not prepared for the catastrophic effects of Brexit!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Boris announces funds to help mitigate and prepare for any potential negative effects of leaving on the 31st October.

Remoaners- " What a waste of money!!!!!!!"

Locked