Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[Tall Paul]

There were stories in the press, of people being told to remove flags from their own windows, during the last world cup, for fear it would upset people.

Link please?

[Devils_Advocate]

Now I accept that we cant always be right, but we cant always be wrong either.

Fair play you're giving it a pretty good go

[jrgbfc]

They've been, or were, banned from some schools, because they might offend some people.

Do you read the Daily Mail or the Express by any chance Colburn?

[Darthlaw]

Not a link for the public being told not to fly flags (as I think that is just common opinion, rather than law) but I was surprised to find UK Government buildings fly the Union Flag on 'designated days'.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/designated- ... -like-this" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Surely that doesn't mean they can't fly the flag all the time?

[Spijed]

Try going to America, or France, you cant turn around without seeing the Stars and Stripes, or the Tricolour all over the place.

There were stories in the press, of people being told to remove flags from their own windows, during the last world cup, for fear it would upset people.

As I've said, the people it's supposed to offend couldn't give a ****, but it doesn't stop sections of officialdom speaking up on their behalf. The far left are just anti British, that doesn't make me far right. There have been many conflicts around the world in the last 40 years, lots that we've been involved in. Is there one, just one, that Corbyn hasn't supported the other side. Now I accept that we cant always be right, but we cant always be wrong either.

And what about the Olympics in London.

Did a single person get told they couldn't wear the Union Jack?

Me thinks you are telling porkies

[Spiral]

Saw the St George's Cross atop Colne town hall driving to work this morning. Should I call 999 or would the police non-emergency number be more appropriate? And if so, what is the non-emergency number? Thanks.

[aggi]

Try going to America, or France, you cant turn around without seeing the Stars and Stripes, or the Tricolour all over the place.

There were stories in the press, of people being told to remove flags from their own windows, during the last world cup, for fear it would upset people.

As I've said, the people it's supposed to offend couldn't give a ****, but it doesn't stop sections of officialdom speaking up on their behalf. The far left are just anti British, that doesn't make me far right. There have been many conflicts around the world in the last 40 years, lots that we've been involved in. Is there one, just one, that Corbyn hasn't supported the other side. Now I accept that we cant always be right, but we cant always be wrong either.

Yep, I spend a lot of time in the US and they have flags everywhere. I've always put it down to them being a bit insecure being a relatively new country. I know where I'm from, I don't need a flag outside my house to remind me to be proud of where I'm from.

There's always those stories, and then you read them and discover it's a fire risk or it was hung in a communal area or something. New laws were introduced a few years ago to make it easier to fly national flags without requiring permission but obviously that doesn't suit your agenda.

[Imploding Turtle]

Try going to America, or France, you cant turn around without seeing the Stars and Stripes, or the Tricolour all over the place.

There were stories in the press, of people being told to remove flags from their own windows, during the last world cup, for fear it would upset people.

As I've said, the people it's supposed to offend couldn't give a ****, but it doesn't stop sections of officialdom speaking up on their behalf. The far left are just anti British, that doesn't make me far right. There have been many conflicts around the world in the last 40 years, lots that we've been involved in. Is there one, just one, that Corbyn hasn't supported the other side. Now I accept that we cant always be right, but we cant always be wrong either.

Colburn: If you oppose overt displays of national pride then it means you're anti British.

Also Colburn: Just because someone's proud to be british doesn't mean they're anti a.n. other.


Colburn, do you not see the double standard here in these two beliefs you've expressed?

[ŽižkovClaret]

Not a link for the public being told not to fly flags (as I think that is just common opinion, rather than law) but I was surprised to find UK Government buildings fly the Union Flag on 'designated days'.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/designated- ... -like-this" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Surely that doesn't mean they can't fly the flag all the time?

I'd assume that is Union flag vs normal flying of the St George's cross. That wont stop some people drawing the wrong conclusions, mind

[AndyClaret]

An unelected PM shutting down Parliament to force through a No Deal Brexit which has no public mandate. It really is appalling stuff, wherever you stand on the issue of leaving the EU. That said, I'm not remotely surprised to see the predictable political extremists on here defending it. They've shown their true colours here. They're not interested in democracy or sovereignty and never have been.

When MPs return to Parliament next week, they should legislate to revoke Article 50 with immediate effect, with an election or referendum to follow. Remind Johnson and his cronies that Parliament is sovereign, and always has been.

Dry your eyes mate, the sight of remoaners losing their minds is a sight to behold, well done Dominic Cummings !

[Imploding Turtle]

We always strongly suspected that brextremists were not interested in our parliamentary democracy. This makes their campaigning on the importance of it over the EU influencing our laws just another proven lie.

They don't want a democracy, they want a dictatorship that panders to their beliefs. This makes people who support this 'extremists'.

I remember getting laughed at when i considered the far-right a bigger threat to our democracy than suicide bombers. Look how right I was.

[Darthlaw]

I'd assume that is Union flag vs normal flying of the St George's cross. That wont stop some people drawing the wrong conclusions, mind

It's in the notes "UK government buildings within the wider Whitehall area may fly the national flags alongside the union flag on their appropriate saint days".

Couldn't give a toss personally, I just enjoyed the thought of some bureaucrat running round telling folk to take their Union Flag down for a day on the 22nd April

[Spijed]

Dry your eyes mate, the sight of remoaners losing their minds is a sight to behold, well done Dominic Cummings !

Hardly going to win an election though!

The Tories simply don't have the numbers!

[Colburn_Claret]

Colburn: If you oppose overt displays of national pride then it means you're anti British.

Also Colburn: Just because someone's proud to be british doesn't mean they're anti a.n. other.


Colburn, do you not see the double standard here in these two beliefs you've expressed?

Where have I written that I oppose displays of National pride?

[Quickenthetempo]

We always strongly suspected that brextremists were not interested in our parliamentary democracy. This makes their campaigning on the importance of it over the EU influencing our laws just another proven lie.

They don't want a democracy, they want a dictatorship that panders to their beliefs. This makes people who support this 'extremists'.

I remember getting laughed at when i considered the far-right a bigger threat to our democracy than suicide bombers. Look how right I was.

I would say both sides would do everything possibe to win.

[Quickenthetempo]

Hardly going to win an election though!

The Tories simply don't have the numbers!

The Brexit party will take a lot of seats off Labour and the Tories if they don't deliver Brexit.

[Spijed]

The Brexit party will take a lot of seats off Labour and the Tories if they don't deliver Brexit.

It's a double edged sword for the Tories.

If the Brexit party water down the Conservative vote (UKIP as well), Labour will most likely hold onto their seats (Peterborough as an example.)
Secondly, if the Conservatives do deliver on a no-deal brexit then many of the Brexit party votes will simply go back to Labour. In that case, traditional Labour voters will not vote Conservative under any circumstance, whereas they may well have voted for the Brexit Party, especially as Boris will have to campaign on other issues, such as jobs, NHS etc. (The specter of Maggie then comes to the fore).

Plus, it was very obvious that the day Boris set foot in Scotland was the day the Conservatives lost all 13 seats north of the border.

In addition, the Lib Dems will pick up a few extra seats in regions such as the South West.

A tall order for Boris to get a majority.

[BennyD]

I assume you mean the deal that Johnson himself voted for?
This in fact, is the deal that Johnson is indeed trying to get through (with some tinkering of the backstop), and is using the proroguing tactic to try to blackmail Parliament into passing the deal.

Johnson eventually voted for it because there was no other prospect of us leaving. The ‘tinkering’ with the backstop is trying to remove an ‘immovable’ part of a deal that ‘cannot be renegotiated’. In effect, he is trying to do the impossible with a no trade-deal exit as the default. The reality is, is that Johnson wants to leave and he’s taking us with him whereas May wanted to remain tied to the EU and her deal did just that, indefinitely.

[BennyD]

Do you read the Daily Mail or the Express by any chance Colburn?

Why ask that? Wasn’t it printed in the Mirror or Socialist worker as well?

[Quickenthetempo]

It's a double edged sword for the Tories.

If the Brexit party water down the Conservative vote (UKIP as well), Labour will most likely hold onto their seats (Peterborough as an example.)
Secondly, if the Conservatives do deliver on a no-deal brexit then many of the Brexit party votes will simply go back to Labour. In that case, traditional Labour voters will not vote Conservative under any circumstance, whereas they may well have voted for the Brexit Party, especially as Boris will have to campaign on other issues, such as jobs, NHS etc. (The specter of Maggie then comes to the fore).

Plus, it was very obvious that the day Boris set foot in Scotland was the day the Conservatives lost all 13 seats north of the border.

In addition, the Lib Dems will pick up a few extra seats in regions such as the South West.

A tall order for Boris to get a majority.

The Tories won't get a majority but will partner up with the Brexit party. The Brexit party is campaigning on No deal so what makes you think they will lose votes to Labour?

[RingoMcCartney]

We always strongly suspected that brextremists were not interested in our parliamentary democracy. This makes their campaigning on the importance of it over the EU influencing our laws just another proven lie.

They don't want a democracy, they want a dictatorship that panders to their beliefs. This makes people who support this 'extremists'.

I remember getting laughed at when i considered the far-right a bigger threat to our democracy than suicide bombers. Look how right I was.

"Please return all toys to pram......please return all toys to pram........please return all toys to pram......."

[Spijed]

The Tories won't get a majority but will partner up with the Brexit party. The Brexit party is campaigning on No deal so what makes you think they will lose votes to Labour?

If we've already left with no deal will the Brexit party have any future in politics in any GE?

[BennyD]

We always strongly suspected that brextremists were not interested in our parliamentary democracy. This makes their campaigning on the importance of it over the EU influencing our laws just another proven lie.

They don't want a democracy, they want a dictatorship that panders to their beliefs. This makes people who support this 'extremists'.

I remember getting laughed at when i considered the far-right a bigger threat to our democracy than suicide bombers. Look how right I was.

Even from you this is complete bolloxcs; you were all happy and jokey when the remainers were foiling the (majority) public wish to leave the EU. When it was looking like a second referendum would be dumped on the public you were so soooo happy, because you said that it was all part of the democratic process. Suspending Parliament is an established part of UK politics, so much so that The Queen said YES to the request. Is she an extremist? FYI, there is nothing happening that indicates a dictatorship unless you are calling Auntie Betty a dictator? If she is, why would she need anyone to ask her to suspend Parliament? Let’s face it, you are massively p!ssed off because Boris is cutting through the remainer’s games and taking us out, wether they like it or not. Do us all a favour and quit bitchin’ about the democratic process when the worst abusers are the remainers. Caretaker PM, interim government indeed. Btw, people were laughing at you because you are a ****.

[Quickenthetempo]

If we've already left with no deal will the Brexit party have any future in politics in any GE?

They shouldn’t have but who can really trust British politicians?
UKIP more a less disbanded thinking they had done their job of getting Brexit but The Brexit party had to be formed due to it being know where near done.

[Devils_Advocate]

Even from you this is complete bolloxcs; you were all happy and jokey when the remainers were foiling the (majority) public wish to leave the EU. When it was looking like a second referendum would be dumped on the public you were so soooo happy, because you said that it was all part of the democratic process. Suspending Parliament is an established part of UK politics, so much so that The Queen said YES to the request. Is she an extremist? FYI, there is nothing happening that indicates a dictatorship unless you are calling Auntie Betty a dictator? If she is, why would she need anyone to ask her to suspend Parliament? Let’s face it, you are massively p!ssed off because Boris is cutting through the remainer’s games and taking us out, wether they like it or not. Do us all a favour and quit bitchin’ about the democratic process when the worst abusers are the remainers. Caretaker PM, interim government indeed. Btw, people were laughing at you because you are a ****.

From the chump who has just been going on about East Germany and Albania in context of the Labour Party. The cranks are out in force today givin us all a bit of light entertainment

[Damo]

After the way the devout remoaners have behaved these past couple of years, I couldn't give a rats @*** about their new found love for democracy.
In fact, it would just make everything a little sweeter if they used underhand tactics to deliver what we voted for

[BennyD]

From the chump who has just been going on about East Germany and Albania in context of the Labour Party. The cranks are out in force today givin us all a bit of light entertainment

Yes mate they are, so we thank you for that.

[Hipper]

A deal was agreed with the EU but proved unacceptable to Parliament. Unfortunately there appears to be no consensus in Parliament as to what a different EU deal would be, and even then it would need EU agreement, which they've said is unlikely.

On top of this you have the SNP and Lib Dems who don't want to leave, and the two major parties completely split on the whole affair. In addition it seems to me that Corbyn is playing politics with the whole business to try and enhance his status as a real politician.

For this reason I think this move by Johnson is entirely necessary to resolve the impasse. We can't continue squabbling over this for years to come.

What the outcome will be who knows. Johnson gets a deal, or no deal. We get a new government 'of national unity' which I guess would not be united that long. Or we get a General Election which may or may not help us forward.

The way I see a no deal Brexit is just doing things a different way round. The ideal of course is to arrange a deal that suits all parties to allow a smooth change as we leave. That involves complex negotiations before we leave. It's clearly beyond the abilities of our representatives.

A 'no deal' just reverses things. We leave and then discuss deals with the EU. Of course it means a period of instability which we've been warned by some will lead to dire consequences. Maybe. However the pressure to make deals will concentrate the minds of all parties so get things done reasonably speedily.

Like most I want to see a way out of this mess and Johnson's manoeuvre is a bold stab at doing so. I hope he succeeds.

[BennyD]

An unelected PM shutting down Parliament to force through a No Deal Brexit which has no public mandate. It really is appalling stuff, wherever you stand on the issue of leaving the EU. That said, I'm not remotely surprised to see the predictable political extremists on here defending it. They've shown their true colours here. They're not interested in democracy or sovereignty and never have been.

When MPs return to Parliament next week, they should legislate to revoke Article 50 with immediate effect, with an election or referendum to follow. Remind Johnson and his cronies that Parliament is sovereign, and always has been.

So an unelected PM fronting a coalition of MPs in a non-elected interim/caretaker government is democratic? That’s what Corbyn is trying to do but, thankfully, he is so odious and such a political non-entity, he can’t find the necessary support. I am sure you would have supported it in any case. Suspending Parliament IS part of our democratic process wether you like it or not so you can’t say Johnson is anti democracy, also, revoking article 50 would be anti democracy because the public voted for it and to deny us would be THE most anti democratic act possible. Parliament has had 3 years to demonstrate it’s sovereignty but couldn’t, so Boris is doing it for them. Quit your bitchin’ about democracy because you have shown you know fuckall about it.

[martin_p]

Not a link for the public being told not to fly flags (as I think that is just common opinion, rather than law) but I was surprised to find UK Government buildings fly the Union Flag on 'designated days'.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/designated- ... -like-this" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Surely that doesn't mean they can't fly the flag all the time?

No it doesn’t, it just means on the days mentioned they’re expected to fly the flag in commemoration/celebration.

[Roosterbooster]

After the way the devout remoaners have behaved these past couple of years, I couldn't give a rats @*** about their new found love for democracy.
In fact, it would just make everything a little sweeter if they used underhand tactics to deliver what we voted for

Could you point out just one single occurrence where the leave campaign suggested voting to leave meant a no deal Brexit?? Because I remember them telling us a very different story. So next time you fool yourself into thinking this is what the country voted for, just think back to all those times you slated a politician for not delivering on their promise. Nobody is getting what was promised here. Instead, Boris is dictating his way around democracy, jumping off a cliff, and taking us all with him. There are only 2 sets of people who think today's actions are justified. Hardcore Tories, and hardcore brexiteers. And neither of those groups give a rats @*** about what really happens. As long as Corbyn stays out of number 10, and we leave the EU, then they are happy, irrespective of the repercussions. It's a sad, sad story.....

[dsr]

Could you point out just one single occurrence where the leave campaign suggested voting to leave meant a no deal Brexit?? Because I remember them telling us a very different story. So next time you fool yourself into thinking this is what the country voted for, just think back to all those times you slated a politician for not delivering on their promise. Nobody is getting what was promised here. Instead, Boris is dictating his way around democracy, jumping off a cliff, and taking us all with him. There are only 2 sets of people who think today's actions are justified. Hardcore Tories, and hardcore brexiteers. And neither of those groups give a rats @*** about what really happens. As long as Corbyn stays out of number 10, and we leave the EU, then they are happy, irrespective of the repercussions. It's a sad, sad story.....

On the other hand, can you point out just one single occurrence where anyone on either side suggested that voting leave meant leaving only on terms dictated by the EU? I know Remainers do tend towards the idea that the vote meant Leave only if the EU would agree to sign off on the terms; but I don't recall that being mentioned at the time.

The question was "Should the UK remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union". Again, I know there is a school of thought that says the terms of leaving should have been put on the ballot paper. But they weren't, and if they had been it would have made it facile for the EU to block the departure by changing or refusing to accept the terms. The way the question was phrased was to establish in principle that it was our decision and ours alone - not dependent on the EU's agreement.

[Right_winger]

Good news all round, the remainer ( undemocratic ) MPs have tried to subvert the Majority result from day 1. This is good news to stop them meddling and damaging Brexit even further. What would be even nicer is to see them
Booted out at the next GE also.

As a bonus it’s also lovely to see the lefties frothing at the mouth with this news.

[Clarets4me]

Could you point out just one single occurrence where the leave campaign suggested voting to leave meant a no deal Brexit?? Because I remember them telling us a very different story. So next time you fool yourself into thinking this is what the country voted for, just think back to all those times you slated a politician for not delivering on their promise. Nobody is getting what was promised here. Instead, Boris is dictating his way around democracy, jumping off a cliff, and taking us all with him. There are only 2 sets of people who think today's actions are justified. Hardcore Tories, and hardcore brexiteers. And neither of those groups give a rats @*** about what really happens. As long as Corbyn stays out of number 10, and we leave the EU, then they are happy, irrespective of the repercussions. It's a sad, sad story.....

Blair gave away around one third of our rebate, based on a promise that the EU Agricultural policy would be reformed,it never was.We signed up to the free movement of people, as one of the 4 freedoms, before the freedom of Services was any where near completed, and virtually no progress was made on that to protect the German and French Service sectors. The Remainer campaign tried to sell us a reformed EU, which it will never be ... the original 1957 Treaty of Rome was created to allow the German's re-admission to the human race after the atrocities of the Nazi's, and to give French politicians & diplomats an enhanced profile after their national humiliation during the war, with the eventual goal of a United States of Europe ...

The vote was " leave " or " remain ", and Britains remainer Politicians have dilly-dallyed for over three years to get us to this point, " negotiating " a dreadful " withdrawal agreement " , that not one leader of the other EU nations would dare take back to their own voters ! In May and Corbyn, the two major parties had saddled themselves with two of the worst political leaders in living memory, excepting Michael Foot and Ian Duncan Smith, perhaps.

This is already the longest Parliament since the war, so proroguing is well overdue, and Parliament hasn't sat during the " Conference " season in living memory, as far as I'm aware. As someone said previously, some deals will be done after leaving, rather than before, and remember all manner of bi-lateral agreements are in place already to cover a " no-deal " scenario.

[JohnMcGreal]

So an unelected PM fronting a coalition of MPs in a non-elected interim/caretaker government is democratic? That’s what Corbyn is trying to do but, thankfully, he is so odious and such a political non-entity, he can’t find the necessary support.

It's not ideal, but yes, because that's how the Fixed Term Parliament Act works. It states that in the event of a no confidence vote against the government, Parliament has 14 days to try and form an alternative government. That's the law. I thought you lot were quite big on our own laws that haven't been 'dictated' to us by the EU?

I am sure you would have supported it in any case. Suspending Parliament IS part of our democratic process wether you like it or not so you can’t say Johnson is anti democracy,

Suspending Parliament for this long (5 weeks) is almost unprecedented (you have to go back to 1945), and to do it at a time when the country is facing a major political shift, it is completely unprecedented. It's clearly an attempt by the executive to circumvent Parliament, and reduce the amount of time MPs have to debate and pass legislation. It's nothing more than an attack on our Parliamentary Democracy.

also, revoking article 50 would be anti democracy because the public voted for it and to deny us would be THE most anti democratic act possible.

If enough MPs back a bill to revoke Article 50, it would be in line with our parliamentary democratic system. Legally speaking, the 2016 referendum was advisory, it was not legally binding (unlike the Scottish Independence referendum), and Parliament is sovereign. It can revoke Article 50 as soon as a majority of MPs feel the need to do it. This would be a clear exercise of Parliamentary Sovereignty, which you lot used to claim you love, but now seem to despise. Granted, revoking Article 50 would be a bold move, but bold moves are very much in vogue right now, so there's never been a better time to do it.

Parliament has had 3 years to demonstrate it’s sovereignty but couldn’t, so Boris is doing it for them. Quit your bitchin’ about democracy because you have shown you know fuckall about it.

Parliament has repeatedly demonstrated its sovereignty over the last 3 years, the most recent case being in March when it took control of the order paper and forced the PM to request an extension from the EU. Have you forgotten that? Parliament is sovereign. It always has been.

Long story short, our parliamentary democratic system is getting in the way of the dreams and fantasies of madmen, so you want it bulldozed out of the way. At least be honest about what kind of country you want to live in. You hate our Parliamentary democratic system and you want it taken out. You're a political extremist, but rest assured, you're not alone on here.

[dsr]

Parliament is never sovereign in a democracy. By definition, in a democracy, the people are sovereign and Parliament is responsible to the people.

The argument about "when we promised to implement the referendum result we had our fingers crossed so the promise doesn't count" has been done to death, and it's a stupid argument. There was no way on earth to make the referendum binding. One Parliament can't bind its successors. If they didn't like the result, they could have introduced a new bill the day after the referendum to repeal the existing law.

If Parliament genuinely believes that the right thing to do is to tell the people that this important decision is theirs to decide, and subsequently to say that we got the decision wrong so we can't decide after all, then we definitely need a new Parliament. Not a new People.

[nil_desperandum]

Johnson eventually voted for it because there was no other prospect of us leaving. The ‘tinkering’ with the backstop is trying to remove an ‘immovable’ part of a deal that ‘cannot be renegotiated’. In effect, he is trying to do the impossible with a no trade-deal exit as the default. The reality is, is that Johnson wants to leave and he’s taking us with him whereas May wanted to remain tied to the EU and her deal did just that, indefinitely.

But you've missed my point entirely. Since there isn't another one, it's May's deal that Johnson is trying to get through Parliament, (with a bit of a tweak on the backstop).
By proroguing Parliament and running the clock down he's effectively taking this to the brink and as deadline day approaches he'll say it's my deal (May's deal) or we crash out with no deal at the end of the week. Some Tories won't vote for it but he'll be relying on enough Labour MPs (such as Flint and Kinnock) to ensure that it passes.
Effectively if this passes, he will still have the brexit party fighting against him and if we didn't already grasp that the Tories will be wiped out in Scotland we do now. Even Ruth Davidson has had enough.
ll this guff (above) about flying the Union Jack will be pretty academic soon unless the Tories find a way of ditching Johnson soon.

[martin_p]

Parliament is never sovereign in a democracy. By definition, in a democracy, the people are sovereign and Parliament is responsible to the people.

No, in a parliamentary democracy by definition parliament is sovereign.

The argument about "when we promised to implement the referendum result we had our fingers crossed so the promise doesn't count" has been done to death, and it's a stupid argument. There was no way on earth to make the referendum binding. One Parliament can't bind its successors. If they didn't like the result, they could have introduced a new bill the day after the referendum to repeal the existing law

Again, factually incorrect. They can make a referendum binding and it was debated. It wasn’t given a great deal of time though as there was an arrogant assumption that remain would win anyway so it wasn’t that important.

[BennyD]

It's not ideal, but yes, because that's how the Fixed Term Parliament Act works. It states that in the event of a no confidence vote against the government, Parliament has 14 days to try and form an alternative government. That's the law. I thought you lot were quite big on our own laws that haven't been 'dictated' to us by the EU?




Suspending Parliament for this long (5 weeks) is almost unprecedented (you have to go back to 1945), and to do it at a time when the country is facing a major political shift, it is completely unprecedented. It's clearly an attempt by the executive to circumvent Parliament, and reduce the amount of time MPs have to debate and pass legislation. It's nothing more than an attack on our Parliamentary Democracy.




If enough MPs back a bill to revoke Article 50, it would be in line with our parliamentary democratic system. Legally speaking, the 2016 referendum was advisory, it was not legally binding (unlike the Scottish Independence referendum), and Parliament is sovereign. It can revoke Article 50 as soon as a majority of MPs feel the need to do it. This would be a clear exercise of Parliamentary Sovereignty, which you lot used to claim you love, but now seem to despise. Granted, revoking Article 50 would be a bold move, but bold moves are very much in vogue right now, so there's never been a better time to do it.




Parliament has repeatedly demonstrated its sovereignty over the last 3 years, the most recent case being in March when it took control of the order paper and forced the PM to request an extension from the EU. Have you forgotten that? Parliament is sovereign. It always has been.

Long story short, our parliamentary democratic system is getting in the way of the dreams and fantasies of madmen, so you want it bulldozed out of the way. At least be honest about what kind of country you want to live in. You hate our Parliamentary democratic system and you want it taken out. You're a political extremist, but rest assured, you're not alone on here.

All very informative but you are missing the big picture: the British people voted to leave the EU. Revoking article 50 is, effectively, saying f... you, we MPs know better so your vote doesn’t count. I am sure the Queen knows more about Sovereignty than you and she agreed to it. The reason for it is because parliament doesn’t know what to do apart from trying to force another (non binding or would it be binding this time?) referendum and have shown themselves not fit for purpose. Just because a majority of MPs voted remain shouldn’t give them the authority to over turn the leave vote, that’s not really democratic, is it?

Long story short, our democratic system is getting in the way of the dreams and fantasies of madmen, people like you who want to drag this out even further rather than leave at the appointed time. Btw, just because I voted leave does not make me a political extremist any more than you are for wanting to do anything to stay. Remember, it’s called Brexit not Bremain.

[Darthlaw]

So John's gone from:

An unelected PM shutting down Parliament to force through a No Deal Brexit which has no public mandate. It really is appalling stuff

to (when talking about Corbyn's "interim government")

It's not ideal, but yes, because that's how the Fixed Term Parliament Act works. It states that in the event of a no confidence vote against the government, Parliament has 14 days to try and form an alternative government. That's the law.

And my favourite part:

If enough MPs back a bill to revoke Article 50, it would be in line with our parliamentary democratic system. It can revoke Article 50 as soon as a majority of MPs feel the need to do it. This would be a clear exercise of Parliamentary Sovereignty

So John is willing to let the six hundred and odd reverse the decision of the majority of voters. The same folk who put them there to act out their wishes... And he dresses it as democracy!

Methinks JohnMcGreal only believes in parliamentary mechanisms when they suit his agenda.

[Greenmile]

There’s an awful lot of brexiters on here who don’t understand how our representative parliamentary democracy is supposed to operate. I can’t say I’m hugely surprised at this observation.

[Darthlaw]

There's probably even more remainers who don't understand the irony of suggesting that ignoring the result of a public referendum is democratic.

(Awaits handbook reply... Advisory referendum, people changed their mind, people were lied to, too stupid to make the decision, etc)

[Greenmile]

There's probably even more remainers who don't understand the irony of suggesting that ignoring the result of a public referendum is democratic.

If our elected representatives decide its a terrible idea, then ignoring the result would be entirely in keeping with our representative parliamentary democracy. All your post does is illustrate my point.

[Darthlaw]

If our elected representatives decide its a terrible idea, then ignoring the result would be entirely in keeping with our representative parliamentary democracy. All your post does is illustrate my point.

Good job 498 of them voted to trigger article 50 then, eh? Its our elected representatives fault.

[Greenmile]

Good job 498 of them voted to trigger article 50 then, eh? Its our elected representatives fault.

This is correct. Well done.

And if they wanted to, they could rescind it with a similar vote, which would be equally democratic in our system.

[Darthlaw]

This is correct. Well done.

And if they wanted to, they could rescind it with a similar vote, which would be equally democratic in our system.

They could. Good luck finding a majority in that house willing to go directly against the result of the referendum, though. None of them, aside the hardcore anti Brexit, are that brave. Keep your fingers and toes crossed though.

[aggi]

remember all manner of bi-lateral agreements are in place already to cover a " no-deal " scenario.

What agreements are in place? I seem to remember there was one for air traffic but I haven't noticed any others.

[Greenmile]

They could. Good luck finding a majority in that house willing to go directly against the result of the referendum, though. None of them, aside the hardcore anti Brexit, are that brave. Keep your fingers and toes crossed though.

I’m not saying it will happen - just that it would be perfectly democratic if it did.

[Joe Buck]

Looks like the only way to save democracy is to destroy it.

[Darthlaw]

Just in the same way it is perfectly democratic in our representative parliamentary democracy for Boris to suspend parliament, as he is doing.

John's issue was 'An unelected PM shutting down Parliament to force through a No Deal Brexit which has no public mandate. It really is appalling stuff'

Whats the issue here? Its perfectly democratic. With that in mind I've changed it for you.

There’s an awful lot of remainers on here who don’t understand how our representative parliamentary democracy is supposed to operate.