Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:57 am

If true and they are willing to extend the deadline then Boris probably has to go along with it otherwise he'll be seen as wanting no deal

dsr
Posts: 15139
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:07 am

Spijed wrote:If true and they are willing to extend the deadline then Boris probably has to go along with it otherwise he'll be seen as wanting no deal
No he doesn't. Why would a deal be harder to sign the day after we come out than the day before? If the EU is serious, then we could easily come out on 31st October with an indefinite, but cancellable by either side, agreement for everything to go on as before in the short term.

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:28 am

I see you've resurrected the tribute act again Marty! (Possibly another)
RingoMcCartney wrote:While The British working class have had 40 odd years to make up their minds, as to whether eu membership has been good for themselves, their family and friends, opportunities, ambition and future.

Elizabeth wrote:Nobody, no matter how they voted, should have been put in the the present serious position they have been of worrying about their futures and those of the families .
Very very sad.

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 12345
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 5202 times
Has Liked: 920 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:34 am

Sat morning and you're getting your kicks from this pathetic childish nonsense.

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:39 am

I see the dwellers of the metropolitan London borough of Ivory Towers are hysterically jumping up and down today!

They've had the Waitrose sellotape and blue tac out to knock up their cringeworthy placards!

"It's a coup."

"No prorogation of Parliament"

"Hes stopping democracy!!!"

Well it's the anti democratic remoaners who have suspended democracy for over 3 years

Parliament has prerogued The Will of the People

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:42 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:Sat morning and you're getting your kicks from this pathetic childish nonsense.
Nobody put a gun to your head to force you to respond to me pitying a desperate remoaner getting their kicks from a sad and pointless tribute act. Did they.

martin_p
Posts: 10368
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 pm
Been Liked: 3764 times
Has Liked: 696 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:12 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:I see you've resurrected the tribute act again Marty! (Possibly another)







Very very sad.
Ah it’s me is it! Good one. Bit desperate mind.

martin_p
Posts: 10368
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 pm
Been Liked: 3764 times
Has Liked: 696 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:14 am

dsr wrote:No he doesn't. Why would a deal be harder to sign the day after we come out than the day before? If the EU is serious, then we could easily come out on 31st October with an indefinite, but cancellable by either side, agreement for everything to go on as before in the short term.
Well for a start Johnson is claiming the divorce bill won’t be paid if we come out with no deal. Won’t be any trade negotiations if that happens. Second, what you’re suggesting is a backstop that can unilaterally be cancelled. We already know that’s a no from the EU.

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:19 am

martin_p wrote:Ah it’s me is it! Good one. Bit desperate mind.
Yeah just give it about the right amount of time to log back in so it really really looks like you've just joined us!

Failed

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:25 am

Remoaners for the last 3 years-

"if the prime minister had actually taken on board the views of the remainers and included us in the negotiations. We could have had a far better outcome to brexit. Instead she chose to totally ignore the view of the 48%"

Remoaners august 2019 -

" we need a Peoples Parliament in a church. We will set up a Government of "National Unity" That just happens not to include anybody that voted Leave and will completely ignore the views of the 52%!

Pure unadulterated hypocrisy and comedy gold to boot!

Greenmile
Posts: 3164
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:50 pm
Been Liked: 1081 times
Has Liked: 4241 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Greenmile » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:30 am

Someone’s on the pop early today
This user liked this post: Swizzlestick

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:33 am

Greenmile wrote:Someone’s on the pop early today
Someone's lost the arguement! ;)

tiger76
Posts: 25697
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Been Liked: 4644 times
Has Liked: 9849 times
Location: Glasgow

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:49 am

Spijed wrote:Seems the EU might be willing to extend the 31 October deadline.
Really! i thought they'd stated any extension was dependent on either a GE or a 2nd referendum.

I'm not totally opposed to further time if a deal is close,but the UK needs to decide what we actually want.

Parliament has constantly said what it doesn't want,however despite numerous votes the HOC hasn't yet come to a majority over any one proposal to end this impasse.

When the MP'S return next week they need to be clear what agreement would pass parliament,at least then Boris would know what changes to demand to the PD,the WA won't be renegotiated the EU have made that clear.

If there isn't a majority in the house for anything then we'll currently crash out with no deal,so parliament has to make it's voice heard if it wants to stop a no-deal scenario.

If parliament feels there needs to be a confirmatory referendum or a VONC they'll have to put their heads above the parapet and vote for such an option.

I did sense in the indicative votes that a compromise solution of CU membership could be successful,but alas that ship might have sailed now.

The nuclear option is revoking A50 but that'll be a last resort,Boris's actions have made this outcome more likely though.

The public is becoming fatigued with this drama now and just wants an end to it all.

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:07 pm

tiger76 wrote:Really! i thought they'd stated any extension was dependent on either a GE or a 2nd referendum.

I'm not totally opposed to further time if a deal is close,but the UK needs to decide what we actually want.

Parliament has constantly said what it doesn't want,however despite numerous votes the HOC hasn't yet come to a majority over any one proposal to end this impasse.

When the MP'S return next week they need to be clear what agreement would pass parliament,at least then Boris would know what changes to demand to the PD,the WA won't be renegotiated the EU have made that clear.

If there isn't a majority in the house for anything then we'll currently crash out with no deal,so parliament has to make it's voice heard if it wants to stop a no-deal scenario.

If parliament feels there needs to be a confirmatory referendum or a VONC they'll have to put their heads above the parapet and vote for such an option.

I did sense in the indicative votes that a compromise solution of CU membership could be successful,but alas that ship might have sailed now.

The nuclear option is revoking A50 but that'll be a last resort,Boris's actions have made this outcome more likely though.

The public is becoming fatigued with this drama now and just wants an end to it all.

Agreed. Parliament could finally accept the referendum result, that they've tried to undermine, frustrate and usurp for over 3 years, and actually do what they promised to do, and implement it.

Those that want the uk to be in the EU would be free, in a open and democratic country, to campaign to join the European union.

Call me old fashioned, but I thought that's how democracy worked.

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:19 pm

Nationwide protests against Parliament's suspension taking place today have been organised by a hard-Leftist who previously labelled Remembrance Sunday 'insidious', it has been revealed.

Momentum member Michael Chessum, 30, is one of the leading figures behind protests in 30 UK cities including a march on Downing Street, that could possibly go to Buckingham Palace. 

Mr Chessum has proven to be a controversial figure, most notably boycotting Remembrance Sunday as president of the University of London students' union because he 'regarded the ceremony as a political statement'.

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:24 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Agreed. Parliament could finally accept the referendum result, that they've tried to undermine, frustrate and usurp for over 3 years, and actually do what they promised to do, and implement it.

Those that want the uk to be in the EU would be free, in a open and democratic country, to campaign to join the European union.

Call me old fashioned, but I thought that's how democracy worked.
I presume that if a couple agree to get married you think they should be forced to go through with it if they change their minds before the ceremony as that is what's you've basically said all along.

You think that once a person has agreed to something, even though they change their mind they must ALWAYS go through with it, regardless of the consequences. Am I correct?

David Davis "If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy."

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:34 pm

Spijed wrote:I presume that if a couple agree to get married you think they should be forced to go through with it if they change their minds before the ceremony as that is what's you've basically said all along.

You think that once a person has agreed to something, even though they change their mind they must ALWAYS go through with it, regardless of the consequences. Am I correct?

David Davis "If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy."
Of course the british People can change their mind.

In 1975 they voted, in a non binding referendum, to join what has morphed, into the European union. The result was implemented.

After 40 odd years they have changed their minds . They've voted in the 2016 Peoples Vote to leave the EU.

If the People trust I democracy is to be preserved, that result must be respected and implemented.

Europhiles would be free to campaign to join the the EU in the future.

Everybody's happy and democracy thrives.

martin_p
Posts: 10368
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 pm
Been Liked: 3764 times
Has Liked: 696 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:06 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Of course the british People can change their mind.

In 1975 they voted, in a non binding referendum, to join what has morphed, into the European union. The result was implemented.

After 40 odd years they have changed their minds . They've voted in the 2016 Peoples Vote to leave the EU.

If the People trust I democracy is to be preserved, that result must be respected and implemented.

Europhiles would be free to campaign to join the the EU in the future.

Everybody's happy and democracy thrives.
So essentially the couple can change their mind as long as they get married first then apply for a divorce.

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:26 pm

aggi wrote:You've talked a few times about London and what it's like.

Can I ask whereabouts in London do you live for these experiences?
You dont have to live in London to recognise where the poorest areas are, which attracts the poorest people, who cant afford the majority of London. There are enough news stories on London, almost on a daily basis, on one news topic or another, to know that most rundown areas of London, are inhabited mostly by migrants. Not because they like living in squalor, but because it's all they can afford. I'm not saying it's right, but it's easier to keep affairs in order, to have migrants living in close proximity. I'm sure they find comfort in living with people who share some knowledge of their journey. The next thing you know you've got a ghetto.

Whichever way you want to look at it, they dont look at the EU with the same eyes as someone who's always lived here.

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:34 pm

CombatClaret wrote:Colburn once again can't help showing his true colours.
You haven't got a scooby bloody doo of my true colours. It just suits your argument if you can convince yourself that everyone who doesn't share your view is a racist.
You might be wrong, but hes a racist so what does it matter. It's such a weak position . Lose the argument, play the race card.

If I was I'd hold my hand up, the truth is I hate racists, but at the same time I'm not some liberal snowflake that thinks anyone who says something negative against someone of colour, is only doing so because of their colour.

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:46 pm

tiger76 wrote:You make some valid points CC,just to correct you it was actually 38% for leave in Scotland,including roughly 1 in 3 pro-indy voters.

Labour's biggest problem is their constant infighting,for instance Corbyn appears receptive to another independence vote in the near future,whereas the Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard is adamantly opposed to any such vote.

This public show of disunity explains why so many of the Scottish electorate,and traditional Labour voters have turned their back on the party,the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing,so how can they expect the general populace to support them.
I've always been against independence, but accept that it's a decision for them alone to make. How many chances do you need though.
Rather like remainers not giving a damn about there was no vote to leave without a deal, it's just a convenient argument to try and remain. The SNP arent bothered that Britain voted to leave, it's just a convenient argument to try and have another independence vote.

God knows what they'd do if we Leave and they got independence. The **** would hit the fan.
Last edited by Colburn_Claret on Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:56 pm

martin_p wrote:So essentially the couple can change their mind as long as they get married first then apply for a divorce.
They got "married" in 1975 Martibeth.

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:05 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Been avoiding the site as there isn't any point posting stuff on here if the reply is going to be "Project Fear" and everyone will be ok.

When you got over your Brexit blues CC, you might well be advised to re-read this thread.

You are not alone, but you come out of it terribly.
I dont blame you for avoiding it, I often feel the same. Then one day you look in, reply to a post, and the next thing its 20.

I'm not sure I'd think I come out of it badly, but as some people cling to the idea I'm a racist, the message has been well mixed up somewhere.

There has to be balance somehow, and if I sat on my hands and let remainers lead the debate, and there have been some whoppers, the same people would see it as proof they are right.

martin_p
Posts: 10368
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 pm
Been Liked: 3764 times
Has Liked: 696 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:07 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:They got "married" in 1975 Martibeth.
Ok, let’s use that then. If a couple that married in 1975 decide to divorce and start the process but then decide they want to stay together after all then they have to go through with the divorce and then remarry.

martin_p
Posts: 10368
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 pm
Been Liked: 3764 times
Has Liked: 696 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:08 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:I dont blame you for avoiding it, I often feel the same. Then one day you look in, reply to a post, and the next thing its 20.

I'm not sure I'd think I come out of it badly, but as some people cling to the idea I'm a racist, the message has been well mixed up somewhere.

There has to be balance somehow, and if I sat on my hands and let remainers lead the debate, and there have been some whoppers, the same people would see it as proof they are right.
Which whoppers.

aggi
Posts: 8762
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:18 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Nationwide protests against Parliament's suspension taking place today have been organised by a hard-Leftist who previously labelled Remembrance Sunday 'insidious', it has been revealed.

Momentum member Michael Chessum, 30, is one of the leading figures behind protests in 30 UK cities including a march on Downing Street, that could possibly go to Buckingham Palace. 

Mr Chessum has proven to be a controversial figure, most notably boycotting Remembrance Sunday as president of the University of London students' union because he 'regarded the ceremony as a political statement'.
And yet you happily voted for Claire Fox who defended the IRA bombing in Warrington. I wonder what the difference is between those two.
This user liked this post: nil_desperandum

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:22 pm

bfcjg wrote:The whole Brexit thing was an I'll thought out shambles designed by Cameron to unite the Tories nothing else. There should have been years of informed debate then a referendum, if the result was leave a negotiated deal should have been in place prior to enacting article 50. The Tories in fact politicians of all persuasions are just useless
Not looking for an argument, but everything you are wanting is only possible in an ideal world, not the real one.
We could argue for the next 5 years we wouldnt be any more informed than today, just more confused.
To have a deal in place, prior to enacting article 50, would be impossible. The EU would just take the view we never deal, because then Article 50 would never be enacted. We'd never leave.
It's a sad state of affairs, but the only way to do it.
What hasn't helped is the wasted last 2.5 years, and the extension of Article 50.

Every GE 55-60% of the electorate dont get the government they voted for. Theres no big stink about it, it's the way it's always been. If only the remain camp could have accepted defeat in the same manor wed have left by now and all be getting on with our lives.

martin_p
Posts: 10368
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 pm
Been Liked: 3764 times
Has Liked: 696 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:25 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:Not looking for an argument, but everything you are wanting is only possible in an ideal world, not the real one.
We could argue for the next 5 years we wouldnt be any more informed than today, just more confused.
To have a deal in place, prior to enacting article 50, would be impossible. The EU would just take the view we never deal, because then Article 50 would never be enacted. We'd never leave.
It's a sad state of affairs, but the only way to do it.
What hasn't helped is the wasted last 2.5 years, and the extension of Article 50.

Every GE 55-60% of the electorate dont get the government they voted for. Theres no big stink about it, it's the way it's always been. If only the remain camp could have accepted defeat in the same manor wed have left by now and all be getting on with our lives.
The reason we don’t have a deal is two sets of opposing red lines that mean we can’t get one that satisfies anyone. Nothing to do with Remain.

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 12345
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 5202 times
Has Liked: 920 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:35 pm

Colburn has spent a lot of this thread dismissing the remain viewpoints as purely assumptions with no facts whilst pretty much his entire argument is based predetermined assumptions of his own that have no substance to back them up.

Id say you couldnt make it up but clearly thats what a lot of these No Deal extremists do over and over again and the irony filter is off the scale

Its really good to see people like Colburns true colours exposed and there is no better advertisement against no deal than the inane ramblings of posters like Colburn and DSR

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:41 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:Every GE 55-60% of the electorate dont get the government they voted for. Theres no big stink about it, it's the way it's always been. If only the remain camp could have accepted defeat in the same manor wed have left by now and all be getting on with our lives.
But the massive difference is that it can be changed every five years, at the latest.

We could potentially be locked out of the EU for 40-50 years if we leave!

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:42 pm

martin_p wrote:Ok, let’s use that then. If a couple that married in 1975 decide to divorce and start the process but then decide they want to stay together after all then they have to go through with the divorce and then remarry.
They signed the divorce papers in 2016.


Remoaners - the jilted partner who cant accept it's over, desperately clinging on, while the other one just wants to move on to bigger and better things.
Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AlargeClaret
Posts: 4428
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:55 pm
Been Liked: 1148 times
Has Liked: 180 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AlargeClaret » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:44 pm

Does anyone ( left or right) seriously think BoJo can win a no confidence vote ? Though I think the Tories under Boris could ( possibly ) romp an election I can’t see how Boris can defeat the remainers including good numbers in his own party?

I’d imagine a “soft” Tory like old Ken Clarke will be briefly installed by the remain cabal , EU extends the date and an GE is called .

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:44 pm

aggi wrote:And yet you happily voted for Claire Fox who defended the IRA bombing in Warrington. I wonder what the difference is between those two.
I dont remember being accompanied by an "outright lies" metropolitan bubble dweller , when I was in the polling booth!

nil_desperandum
Posts: 7301
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
Been Liked: 1823 times
Has Liked: 3948 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:46 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Colburn has spent a lot of this thread dismissing the remain viewpoints as purely assumptions with no facts whilst pretty much his entire argument is based predetermined assumptions of his own that have no substance to back them up.
I don't mind debating with Colburn tbh. I generally don't agree with his views on the EU, but he seems a decent chap, and when he says he's not a racist I actually believe him.
His problem is that a large number of his posts - presumably unintentionally and unconsciously - come across as being racist.
This user liked this post: Colburn_Claret

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:51 pm

martin_p wrote:The reason we don’t have a deal is two sets of opposing red lines that mean we can’t get one that satisfies anyone. Nothing to do with Remain.
No, as usual.
The reason we haven't had a deal, is because we still haven't had any negotiations.
The reason we haven't had negotiations is the EU haven't had to come to the table. May gave them a deal beyond there wildest dreams, and then let them add a backstop that could tie us to the EU indefinitely.
Since that day despite it being voted down 3 times, they have been encourage to take a no alternative deal stance, by Remain supporting MPs. Why wouldnt they, I'd do the same in their shoes.

Something has to give to change that impasse, and Boris and his determination to leave, with or without a deal is the change to that impasse. Now it's all to play for again.
These 2 users liked this post: tiger76 BennyD

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 12345
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 5202 times
Has Liked: 920 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:56 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:I don't mind debating with Colburn tbh. I generally don't agree with his views on the EU, but he seems a decent chap, and when he says he's not a racist I actually believe him.
His problem is that a large number of his posts - presumably unintentionally and unconsciously - come across as being racist.
I can understand that as for people like yourself who have the patience and interest to seriously debate on here then Colburn will go back and forth in a sensible and adult manner

I believe him when he says he's not a racist and I believes he genuinely believes in what he is saying but that is no consolation for me. Unintentionally or subconsciously having and sharing racist views in not something to be accepted and tolerated.

I also have no patience this far down the line for people who are so prominent in their views but take no responsibility or care in checking the second hand opinions they regurgitate and reinforce even when in some cases they are real facts and a wealth of expert analysis that contradicts it.
This user liked this post: Greenmile

nil_desperandum
Posts: 7301
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
Been Liked: 1823 times
Has Liked: 3948 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:57 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:
I’d imagine a “soft” Tory like old Ken Clarke will be briefly installed by the remain cabal , EU extends the date and an GE is called .
Possibly, but then again Parliament (and the country as a whole) might quite like the idea of a moderate government that actually reflects the Parliamentary numbers and has a broad spectrum of views. No one much wants a Gen Election I don't think, and it may well solve nothing.
The big thing that is so often ignored is that although 'leave' got more votes than remain in 2016, it was only marginally over 50% and every subsequent poll / election / survey since has reflected that we're pretty much divided down the middle.
In pretty much any other scenario it would be accepted that it can't be 'winner takes all' otherwise the country remains impossibly divided for at least a decade.
A Clarke / Harman led coalition that keeps extremists at arms-length and makes a sensible deal with the EU is really the best hope to bring together a deeply divided and angry country.

AlargeClaret
Posts: 4428
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:55 pm
Been Liked: 1148 times
Has Liked: 180 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AlargeClaret » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:13 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Possibly, but then again Parliament (and the country as a whole) might quite like the idea of a moderate government that actually reflects the Parliamentary numbers and has a broad spectrum of views. No one much wants a Gen Election I don't think, and it may well solve nothing.
The big thing that is so often ignored is that although 'leave' got more votes than remain in 2016, it was only marginally over 50% and every subsequent poll / election / survey since has reflected that we're pretty much divided down the middle.
In pretty much any other scenario it would be accepted that it can't be 'winner takes all' otherwise the country remains impossibly divided for at least a decade.
A Clarke / Harman led coalition that keeps extremists at arms-length and makes a sensible deal with the EU is really the best hope to bring together a deeply divided and angry country.
Much as I dislike Harman that type of “Grandee” brief coalition could just get a deal of sorts though hardcore leavers will be livid. It seems almost a given that Boris will fall as I just can’t see even if the house has a free vote that he can cling on. It’s a bizzare case in politics which could literally see ANY party coming to power if a GE was called . The remainers need to avoid that at all costs (imo) as the protest vote could even see Farage’s lot with a very tidy amount of seats insane though it may sound

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:31 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Colburn has spent a lot of this thread dismissing the remain viewpoints as purely assumptions with no facts whilst pretty much his entire argument is based predetermined assumptions of his own that have no substance to back them up.

Id say you couldnt make it up but clearly thats what a lot of these No Deal extremists do over and over again and the irony filter is off the scale

Its really good to see people like Colburns true colours exposed and there is no better advertisement against no deal than the inane ramblings of posters like Colburn and DSR
I've said many times why I voted leave, and it isnt because of any promises made by any politician.
I dont think the EU is a democratic system.
A system run by people who want federalist United States of Europe. Not that they campaign on that front, that would sound a death knell, but by stealth. A system that doesn't make laws suggested by MEPs, no, they only get to vote on suggestions from the leadership. Why have a Brussels at all, we joined a common market, we could have achieved as much, and lost no sovereignty by having monthly meetings of each countries foreign secretaries.
If it was a body created to improve the lives of its people, it still wouldnt be right, but it isnt it just takes more and more control from member states unto itself.
It isnt just the British with a problem against Brussels, France, Greece, Italy, Spain all bought into it, for the right reason, to find that when they are in trouble, being a member is no help at all.

I love Europe, I love the diversity. Culture, language, food, architecture, but those very diversities make making a single body of it impossible. You cant create a one shoe fits all society, of people with so many different dreams, needs, and desires.
The biggest test of that is yet to come. I've said before that if we are still a member the next time we have a world recession, the EU will be a mill stone around our neck. It will stop us from taking the measures any independent country would do, in order to protect its economy and its people.

I do rip into the fear campaign of remainers, because it is so much guess work, wrapped in prejudice, touted as fact.

I've never claimed any facts about leaving, other than we will be free to make our own choices, right or wrong. I dont believe post Brexit with a deal or without one, will be terrible for us. Theres bound to be bumps in the road, that's only natural, but nothing terminal. I dont quote anyones opinion and quote it as fact, I tell people what I think. I've never claimed substance or proofs for what I believe, just that I have faith in my own ability to decide these things for myself.

aggi
Posts: 8762
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:33 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:I dont remember being accompanied by an "outright lies" metropolitan bubble dweller , when I was in the polling booth!
Fair enough. I can't prove you voted for the Brexit party (although I don't think anyone will believe you didn't). If you can just point me in the direction of those posts you made condemning Claire Fox then I'll believe you're not a hypocrite.

(I also love your idea that Tottenham embodies the metropolitan bubble)

android
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:01 am
Been Liked: 119 times
Has Liked: 43 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by android » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:48 pm

martin_p wrote:Which whoppers.
You are very impatient Martin. You gave it less than 20 minutes before answering your own question!

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:50 pm

aggi wrote:Fair enough. I can't prove you voted for the Brexit party (although I don't think anyone will believe you didn't). If you can just point me in the direction of those posts you made condemning Claire Fox then I'll believe you're not a hypocrite.

(I also love your idea that Tottenham embodies the metropolitan bubble)

I think what Fox said was terrible and extremely insensitive FWIW.

I love your idea that Tottenham isn't in london.

tiger76
Posts: 25697
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Been Liked: 4644 times
Has Liked: 9849 times
Location: Glasgow

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:32 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:I've always been against independence, but accept that it's a decision for them alone to make. How many chances do you need though.
Rather like remainers not giving a damn about there was no vote to leave without a deal, it's just a convenient argument to try and remain. The SNP arent bothered that Britain voted to leave, it's just a convenient argument to try and have another independence vote.

God knows what they'd do if we Leave and they got independence. The **** would hit the fan.
If an independence vote is held next year,as Sturgeon keeps promising i'll still vote no,however if a majority of the Scottish electorate disagree with me,that's life and i'll accept the result unlike the remoaners who from day one have been determined to thwart any version of brexit.

Sturgeon and the SNP should take note of UKIP'S fate once they had secured their main policy objective,certainly an independent Scotland would see a major political realignment,it baffles me that supporters of Scottish independence are perfectly happy to cede powers to the unelected bureaucratic EU,but that's their right.
These 2 users liked this post: GodIsADeeJay81 Colburn_Claret

BennyD
Posts: 3603
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:10 am
Been Liked: 1338 times
Has Liked: 757 times
Location: Nantwich

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BennyD » Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:42 pm

martin_p wrote:If we walk away without paying then we won’t be getting any trade deal with our biggest market. Good thinking!
No deal means no trade deal. With one or without one, we will always trade with the EU because the German economy needs us and the EU needs a healthy German economy. Consequently, it’s in both our interests to have a deal and if/when we get one I’ve no doubt some of that £39b will change hands. However, if there is a no no-deal scenario, the EU don’t need to change their position knowing they can do us dry from behind and get our £39b. So, it’s the remainers trying to block no deal that are undermining our negotiating position. Good thinking. :roll:
Last edited by BennyD on Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BennyD
Posts: 3603
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:10 am
Been Liked: 1338 times
Has Liked: 757 times
Location: Nantwich

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BennyD » Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:51 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Nationwide protests against Parliament's suspension taking place today have been organised by a hard-Leftist who previously labelled Remembrance Sunday 'insidious', it has been revealed.

Momentum member Michael Chessum, 30, is one of the leading figures behind protests in 30 UK cities including a march on Downing Street, that could possibly go to Buckingham Palace. 

Mr Chessum has proven to be a controversial figure, most notably boycotting Remembrance Sunday as president of the University of London students' union because he 'regarded the ceremony as a political statement'.
Just the great unwashed having a reunion. You can bet your backside they won’t be taking time off work because the majority will be either unemployed or shtoodents. Chessum is just another left wing tosspot with nothing better to do; a rebel without a clue.

Greenmile
Posts: 3164
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:50 pm
Been Liked: 1081 times
Has Liked: 4241 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Greenmile » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:31 pm

BennyD wrote:No deal means no trade deal. With one or without one, we will always trade with the EU because the German economy needs us and the EU needs a healthy German economy. Consequently, it’s in both our interests to have a deal and if/when we get one I’ve no doubt some of that £39b will change hands. However, if there is a no no-deal scenario, the EU don’t need to change their position knowing they can do us dry from behind and get our £39b. So, it’s the remainers trying to block no deal that are undermining our negotiating position. Good thinking. :roll:
Yeah. They definitely need us more than we need them. If there’s one thing the last three years has taught us, it’s that.

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:33 pm

Spijed wrote:But the massive difference is that it can be changed every five years, at the latest.

We could potentially be locked out of the EU for 40-50 years if we leave!
You're just trying to make me happy.
I was going to say could you make it 140 years, but it will have died the death by then.

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:47 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Possibly, but then again Parliament (and the country as a whole) might quite like the idea of a moderate government that actually reflects the Parliamentary numbers and has a broad spectrum of views. No one much wants a Gen Election I don't think, and it may well solve nothing.
The big thing that is so often ignored is that although 'leave' got more votes than remain in 2016, it was only marginally over 50% and every subsequent poll / election / survey since has reflected that we're pretty much divided down the middle.
In pretty much any other scenario it would be accepted that it can't be 'winner takes all' otherwise the country remains impossibly divided for at least a decade.
A Clarke / Harman led coalition that keeps extremists at arms-length and makes a sensible deal with the EU is really the best hope to bring together a deeply divided and angry country.
The number of remainers on here that complained Boris was PM by default, he hadn't been chosen by the country, are now espousing the same manoeuvre to put Clarke and Harman in charge. Its hilarious. You then say the unelected duo should make a deal with the EU, in order to disenfranchise 17.4 million voters. AND that is going to unite a divided country.
Every subsequent poll shows we are split down the middle. How many MEPs did Brexit gain and even if we are split down the middle, why should the remain half prevail.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
This user liked this post: BennyD

BennyD
Posts: 3603
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:10 am
Been Liked: 1338 times
Has Liked: 757 times
Location: Nantwich

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BennyD » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:48 pm

Greenmile wrote:Yeah. They definitely need us more than we need them. If there’s one thing the last three years has taught us, it’s that.
Hasnt the Mirror reported that the German economy, like that of the EUs, is going into recession? They need us AS MUCH as we need them, not more or less.

BennyD
Posts: 3603
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:10 am
Been Liked: 1338 times
Has Liked: 757 times
Location: Nantwich

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BennyD » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:58 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:The number of remainers on here that complained Boris was PM by default, he hadn't been chosen by the country, are now espousing the same manoeuvre to put Clarke and Harman in charge. Its hilarious. You then say the unelected duo should make a deal with the EU, in order to disenfranchise 17.4 million voters. AND that is going to unite a divided country.
Every subsequent poll shows we are split down the middle. How many MEPs did Brexit gain and even if we are split down the middle, why should the remain half prevail.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Clarke is a remainer through and through, in other words a complete bellend and, as a Tory. I wouldnt trust that tw4t to run a lemonade stall. As for Harman, words fail me; with Corbyn as the benchmark, I wouldnt trust her to wipe herself after a p!ss. Boris is doing the job, which is proven by the remainers doing flick flacks to try and stop him. He is our best, and only, way of carving through the last 3 years of cuntery imposed on us by the remoaners.

Locked