Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:59 pm

jrgbfc wrote:It OK for all these millionaire Tories like Boris Johnson and Rees-Mogg to be pushing for no deal, if it all goes tits up it's not them who'll lose their jobs or be struggling to pay the mortgage is it?

Rees-Mogg has likely made a killing from Brexit and stands to make a lot more.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:59 pm

jrgbfc wrote:It OK for all these millionaire Tories like Boris Johnson and Rees-Mogg to be pushing for no deal, if it all goes tits up it's not them who'll lose their jobs or be struggling to pay the mortgage is it?

They will MAKE millions from it.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/n ... -tax-haven" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:03 pm

jrgbfc wrote:It OK for all these millionaire Tories like Boris Johnson and Rees-Mogg to be pushing for no deal, if it all goes tits up it's not them who'll lose their jobs or be struggling to pay the mortgage is it?

When you consider their voting records - consistently for tax cuts to their class, and benefit cuts for everyone else, we are sacrifices worth making.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:12 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:The problem is Spijed, that there are experts on both sides, saying opposite things. They cant all be right.
Many of the experts have vested interests, conveniently hidden.
People end up believing everything as fact, if it supports their point of view, and dismiss as lies everything that counters it.
You need to stand back and try and see through it all. Use your common sense and experience. Put yourself in their shoes if needed and work it out for yourself...

Colburn_Claret wrote:Not according to the Finance Director of Deutsche Bank...

This has to be a parody account.

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:39 pm

Post 12032 you talk about both sides sensing victory Lancaster then go on to describe one of the sides as an uneasy alliance including remainers and dealers. The alliance according to you also includes Greens but why you separate them from remainers I don't know.
There are many weaknesses in your arguments but for the time being answer me this question. If they are both on the same side, how can both Remainers and Leavers sense victory when both want different outcomes following the Referendum.
The truth of the matter is that while you come over as very confused you are really just one of those remoaners of the worse kind.Pretending to want a deal but not clever enough to hide your tracks.
Look down your nose if you want with your comments 'whoever you are'

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:59 pm

"but not clever enough to hide your tracks."

The irony.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:28 pm

Elizabeth wrote:Post 12032 you talk about both sides sensing victory Lancaster then go on to describe one of the sides as an uneasy alliance including remainers and dealers. The alliance according to you also includes Greens but why you separate them from remainers I don't know.
There are many weaknesses in your arguments but for the time being answer me this question. If they are both on the same side, how can both Remainers and Leavers sense victory when both want different outcomes following the Referendum.
The truth of the matter is that while you come over as very confused you are really just one of those remoaners of the worse kind.Pretending to want a deal but not clever enough to hide your tracks.
Look down your nose if you want with your comments 'whoever you are'

I answered you out of courtesy with my assessment of what it is.

I have been consistent with my views and what I would accept.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not interested in the opinion of someone who is either a parody account or a 2nd account of someone.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:34 pm

Rees-Mogg must be tired he’s currently sprawled across the front bench during the debate. A great look!

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:38 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Rees-Mogg must be tired he’s currently sprawled across the front bench during the debate. A great look!

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:47 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:

Imagine ever looking at that guy or listening to him and thinking “yeah, he wants what’s best for me”.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:56 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Imagine ever looking at that guy or listening to him and thinking “yeah, he wants what’s best for me”.

You made me log-in to 'like' your post. I hate you.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:16 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:You made me log-in to 'like' your post. I hate you.

Ditto!

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:16 pm

Wow, that's a climb down I didn't expect Lancaster. Is that all you've got?
Put up or shut up is advice given to me when young and ambitious. It served me well and is why you won't find me getting involved with posters who know what they are talking about when it comes to economy and trade.
One or two however are all hot air and could have benefited from the same advice

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:17 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:

Like the rest of the country he's bored by 3 years of delaying tactics,if the HOC want to revoke A50 just have the balls to say so.

MP'S could have voted for alternative options with the indicative votes but they wimped out.

At least be open about their motives,and no i don't agree with Boris's antics,the whole house has been dishonourable throughout the whole process.

Is it any wonder their ratings are at an all time low.

Tough for Labour to vote against a GE when they've been demanding exactly that for the last 2 years.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:24 pm

Wish I got paid for sleeping at work.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:24 pm

The other party leaders really stuck it to that half-wit, clown Johnson.
Brilliant.
He couldn't get out of there fast enough, now he's off to deselect Ken Clarke.
I knew there would be some twists and turns to come but I never thought we'd see the tory leadership sink so low.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:25 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:The other party leaders really stuck it to that half-wit, clown Johnson.
Brilliant.
He couldn't get out of there fast enough, now he's off to deselect Ken Clarke.
I knew there would be some twists and turns to come but I never thought we'd see the tory leadership sink so low.

It'll sink much lower.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:27 pm

I hope he deselects the lot. The fallout will reverberate around the Tory Party for at least a generation. To be realistic for a moment, even he's not that stupid. On second thoughts...

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:29 pm

Fair play to those Tory rebels who defied the bullying tactics of their increasingly unhinged party of extremists.

Also to Corbyn who refused to rise to the bait and told Johnson he can stick his election until the legislation to prevent no deal has passed.

The government have tried to bully and sideline Parliament and it's blown up in their face. A great night of Parliamentary politics, and what a shame Boris Johnson is the one left sitting in the pile of **** he helped create.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:30 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:Wish I got paid for sleeping at work.

Especially when you’ve just been given a nice new role in the company.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:31 pm

So parliament has voted to take control of something, and the people who beat the drum for UK parliamentary control 3 years ago are now screeching like babies that it's "undemocratic".

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:32 pm

Cummings not having the influence they expected, leaks aplenty, voting against them.

Such a shame.

Still the ones who have shouted loudest about unelected bureaucrats will be happy with it. Won’t they?

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:32 pm

tiger76 wrote:Like the rest of the country he's bored by 3 years of delaying tactics,if the HOC want to revoke A50 just have the balls to say so.

MP'S could have voted for alternative options with the indicative votes but they wimped out.

At least be open about their motives,and no i don't agree with Boris's antics,the whole house has been dishonourable throughout the whole process.

Is it any wonder their ratings are at an all time low.

Tough for Labour to vote against a GE when they've been demanding exactly that for the last 2 years.

Tough how? It's another ploy to get their no deal brexit through, none of the opposition leaders are daft enough to fall for that obvious trap in the same way Parliament is going to vote against no deal tomorrow to stop him running down the clock by prorogueing Parliament.

Why would anyone fall for that??

Just because Boris Johnson points at Corbyn and says a load of blah you think it's viable?

You need help mate.

If the village idiot deselects the rebels then it won't be long until everybody realises they don't need an election if they can agree on the leader of a national unity government he'll be forced out without one.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:33 pm

Some Labour MP'S now attempting to revive TM'S deal,as Ruth Smeeth was asked just now on Radio 5 by Tony Livesey why didn't they vote for it before,her answer was they expected to get another chance to vote for a deal,and didn't imagine Boris as PM pushing a no deal agenda.

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:35 pm

People who respect the referendum result and can see how Parliament remainers are trying to thwart it, will love that photo and 'Get it'

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:37 pm

Maybe those same Labour MPs just beginning to realise they are weeks away from losing their seats

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:38 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:Fair play to those Tory rebels who defied the bullying tactics of their increasingly unhinged party of extremists.

Also to Corbyn who refused to rise to the bait and told Johnson he can stick his election until the legislation to prevent no deal has passed.

The government have tried to bully and sideline Parliament and it's blown up in their face. A great night of Parliamentary politics, and what a shame Boris Johnson is the one left sitting in the pile of **** he helped create.

I cheered a few times

Ken Clarke ripping Rees Mogg a new one was awesome

Someone shouted "Good start Boris" really loud when the results were read out

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:44 pm

The 21 rebels haven’t got their marching orders yet. Apparently they’re getting a chance to redeem themselves in tomorrow’s vote. I’m not sure why any of them would want to do that.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:45 pm

Elizabeth wrote:Maybe those same Labour MPs just beginning to realise they are weeks away from losing their seats

Maybe those Labour MPs care more about the jobs of their constituents than their own.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:45 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:So parliament has voted to take control of something, and the people who beat the drum for UK parliamentary control 3 years ago are now screeching like babies that it's "undemocratic".

I'm not but it's easy to say they don't want no deal,most sensible people don't want no deal,it's a lot harder when they have to coalesce around a viable alternative,whether that's a different deal,a 2nd referendum,or revoking A50.

Boris's biggest mistake was aligning with Dominic Cummings,he should be nowhere near parliament.let alone no 10.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:48 pm

tiger76 wrote:I'm not but it's easy to say they don't want no deal,most sensible people don't want no deal,it's a lot harder when they have to coalesce around a viable alternative,whether that's a different deal,a 2nd referendum,or revoking A50.

Boris's biggest mistake was aligning with Dominic Cummings,he should be nowhere near parliament.let alone no 10.

Maybe those MPs who are not getting their no deal Brexit might start to see sense and realise that if they don’t start to soften their stance there’ll be no Brexit at all.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:49 pm

martin_p wrote:The 21 rebels haven’t got their marching orders yet. Apparently they’re getting a chance to redeem themselves in tomorrow’s vote. I’m not sure why any of them would want to do that.

Boris clutching at straws. Plus not great headlines for him and Cummings getting rid of Churchill’s grandson!

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:53 pm

martin_p wrote:The 21 rebels haven’t got their marching orders yet. Apparently they’re getting a chance to redeem themselves in tomorrow’s vote. I’m not sure why any of them would want to do that.

Oh dear, what a sad, desperate failure.
I always had a sneaking feeling Boris wouldn't quite be up to the job.
Unfortunately, while the opposition were reading The Art Of War by Sun Tzu Boris was reading The Art Of The Deal by Donald Trump

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:58 pm

martin_p wrote:Maybe those MPs who are not getting their no deal Brexit might start to see sense and realise that if they don’t start to soften their stance there’ll be no Brexit at all.

If you're referring to the ERG you'll have a long wait,the vast majority of the public just want this sorted one way or another,and until the WA or any WA agreement gets passed we'll just keep going round in circles ad nauseam.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:01 pm

martin_p wrote:The 21 rebels haven’t got their marching orders yet. Apparently they’re getting a chance to redeem themselves in tomorrow’s vote. I’m not sure why any of them would want to do that.

Now confirmed they are being kicked out.

Most are very popular with the public who voted for them so that'll be a further 21 seats the Tories will lose (Assuming they stand as independents), in addition to the 13 in Scotland.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:04 pm

I only hope Carrie and the dog are sleeping at a friend or relative's house tonight or one of them might be getting a kick too!

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:04 pm

Rory Stewart has announced he’s standing down at the GQ Awards!

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:05 pm

Where are the Leavers?

Yooohooo.

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:05 pm

Spijed wrote:Now confirmed they are being kicked out.

Most are very popular with the public who voted for them so that'll be a further 21 seats the Tories will lose (Assuming they stand as independents), in addition to the 13 in Scotland.

Tory implosion....is good!

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:06 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:How will you all feel if we are still in the EU on 1st November?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:07 pm

Whatever happens next, then the election or 2nd ref will hopefully deliver a mandate for someone to do something different from the last three years.

Be that deal, No-Deal, remain, nuke the EU, join the US, whatever but at least it will be different.

Course, if its another hung parliament then who knows where we go from there!

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:08 pm

Spijed wrote:Now confirmed they are being kicked out.

Most are very popular with the public who voted for them so that'll be a further 21 seats the Tories will lose (Assuming they stand as independents), in addition to the 13 in Scotland.

No one outside Johnson and Cummings has a clue what’s going on, even government ministers. It was Leadsom that had said the 21 would be given a second chance. I suspect that was the original plan but Cummings has had a hissy fit.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:10 pm

Cummings sounds like a very angry little man. He also looks like a middle aged backpacker still mooching around Thailand.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:12 pm

Spijed wrote:Now confirmed they are being kicked out.

Most are very popular with the public who voted for them so that'll be a further 21 seats the Tories will lose (Assuming they stand as independents), in addition to the 13 in Scotland.

Popular my arse. Some of those have faced de-selection calls from their members.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:14 pm

"Tonight’s decisive result is the first step in a process to avert an undemocratic and damaging no deal. No 10 have responded by removing the whip from two former chancellors, a former lord chancellor and Winston Churchill’s grandson. What has has happened to the Conservative party?"

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:15 pm

Well, I guess that’s the end of Brexit. The Westminster w4nkers have right royally f*cked the leavers; they have effectively blocked no deal and they won’t vote for a snap election, which means we will get extension after extension and more referenda until the Liberal intelligentsia get their way. WTF happened to democracy? the type where the public vote for what they want, not the self serving sh!t served up by Westminster. F*ck the lot of them.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:16 pm

I don't get this about Soames. Does being Churchill's grandson somehow exempt him from criticism?

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:18 pm

BennyD wrote:Well, I guess that’s the end of Brexit. The Westminster w4nkers have right royally f*cked the leavers; they have effectively blocked no deal and they won’t vote for a snap election, which means we will get extension after extension and more referenda until the Liberal intelligentsia get their way. WTF happened to democracy? the type where the public vote for what they want, not the self serving sh!t served up by Westminster. F*ck the lot of them.

The public have got what they wanted, the MPs that currently sit in the house. This was after a Tory campaign that majored on ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:20 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:Where are the Leavers?

Yooohooo.

Hellooo!

Maybe you could help? Labour want to pass a bill that rules out no deal before they agree to a general election. I get that bit - makes perfect sense considering they are totally opposed to no-deal.

What I don't get is the significance. Let's say this bill becomes law on Friday (if the Lords are quick about it), then we get a GE with Labour's support (which the Tories now want). If the Tories then win that GE, they can just repeal the bill again can't they? And therefore put no-deal back on the table?

Nobody in the media seems to be considering this. Have I missed a piece of the jigsaw or something?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:21 pm

BennyD wrote:Well, I guess that’s the end of Brexit. The Westminster w4nkers have right royally f*cked the leavers; they have effectively blocked no deal and they won’t vote for a snap election, which means we will get extension after extension and more referenda until the Liberal intelligentsia get their way. WTF happened to democracy? the type where the public vote for what they want, not the self serving sh!t served up by Westminster. F*ck the lot of them.

No idea why you are giving up so easily.

If the only reason you could get a Brexit through was by shutting down parliament, then it wasn't a Brexit that the majority voted for.

Still plenty of chances to get that Brexit, you just have to win the GE or the referendum.