Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[martin_p]

Hellooo!

Maybe you could help? Labour want to pass a bill that rules out no deal before they agree to a general election. I get that bit - makes perfect sense considering they are totally opposed to no-deal.

What I don't get is the significance. Let's say this bill becomes law on Friday (if the Lords are quick about it), then we get a GE with Labour's support (which the Tories now want). If the Tories then win that GE, they can just repeal the bill again can't they? And therefore put no-deal back on the table?

Nobody in the media seems to be considering this. Have I missed a piece of the jigsaw or something?

It’d have to get through the Lords as well, the make up of which wouldn’t really change. Besides, the bill instructs the PM to seek an extension if a deal hasn’t been done by 19th October. If there’s an election on 14th there’s no way they could repeal it in time.

[Lancasterclaret]

Hellooo!

Maybe you could help? Labour want to pass a bill that rules out no deal before they agree to a general election. I get that bit - makes perfect sense considering they are totally opposed to no-deal.

What I don't get is the significance. Let's say this bill becomes law on Friday (if the Lords are quick about it), then we get a GE with Labour's support (which the Tories now want). If the Tories then win that GE, they can just repeal the bill again can't they? And therefore put no-deal back on the table?

Nobody in the media seems to be considering this. Have I missed a piece of the jigsaw or something?

Lab will ask for the election to be after a "No Deal" is blocked after Oct 31st and an extension agreed I think (but only a guess)

[Spijed]

From Twitter:

"Boris Johnson started the day with 311 MPs, and a majority of one. He's finishing it with 289 MPs, very much the leader of a minority government."

[dsr]

Now confirmed they are being kicked out.

Most are very popular with the public who voted for them so that'll be a further 21 seats the Tories will lose (Assuming they stand as independents), in addition to the 13 in Scotland.

It makes no difference whether they are expelled or not. They couldn't have stood as Conservatives at an immediate general election anyway. What are they going to say on the hustings? Vote for me because I'm a Conservative who wants Corbyn to be PM?

[martin_p]

It makes no difference whether they are expelled or not. They couldn't have stood as Conservatives at an immediate general election anyway. What are they going to say on the hustings? Vote for me because I'm a Conservative who wants Corbyn to be PM?

Well they won’t be voting for a general election then will they!

There was a good piece on Newsnight about a Johnson’s options for calling an election. A) the vote he’s called but that will need a 2/3 majority B) a vote to ignore the fixed term parliament act that will just need a majority but will be amendable and therefore runs the risk that the opposition insert a ‘no no deal’ amendment C) calling a vote of no confidence and asking his own MPs to express no confidence in him. But that isn’t a good look and also allows a 14 day period for the opposition to form a government that does have confidence.

[taio]

Hellooo!

Maybe you could help? Labour want to pass a bill that rules out no deal before they agree to a general election. I get that bit - makes perfect sense considering they are totally opposed to no-deal.

What I don't get is the significance. Let's say this bill becomes law on Friday (if the Lords are quick about it), then we get a GE with Labour's support (which the Tories now want). If the Tories then win that GE, they can just repeal the bill again can't they? And therefore put no-deal back on the table?

Nobody in the media seems to be considering this. Have I missed a piece of the jigsaw or something?

I'm sure as you say the bill can be repealed in such circumstances.

[Lancasterclaret]

It makes no difference whether they are expelled or not. They couldn't have stood as Conservatives at an immediate general election anyway. What are they going to say on the hustings? Vote for me because I'm a Conservative who wants Corbyn to be PM?

You need to face reality dsr.

Surely you see that now?

There is a deal which means we leave the EU. You were warned repeatedly on here by me (and others) that if you pushed for the harshest Brexit ever then this might happen.

There are the numbers for a deal I suspect, and there is a chance to vote for one tomorrow.

Take it.

[Elizabeth]

No, those Labour MPs were playing political games in the hope that they would get a General Election.
Guess what, it worked.
Personally I think Labour will get slaughtered in Brexit voting constituencies with narrow majorities.
To read some of the over-reactions in the last hour or so you would think Brexit had been revoked and Johnson was no longer PM.

[If it be your will]

Well, I guess that’s the end of Brexit. The Westminster w4nkers have right royally f*cked the leavers; they have effectively blocked no deal and they won’t vote for a snap election, which means we will get extension after extension and more referenda until the Liberal intelligentsia get their way. WTF happened to democracy? the type where the public vote for what they want, not the self serving sh!t served up by Westminster. F*ck the lot of them.

I don't get why you're so defeatist either. A very hard Brexit/No deal is still virtually certain. If the Tories win a GE in a couple of months, hard brexit it is. If they win and fail to deliver a hard brexit, the government will fall and Farage wins the subsequent election = no deal. It might even take 3 or 4 elections, but it's only a matter of time before either the Tories or the Brexit Party get in with a manifesto pledge of a hard Brexit. Pro-remain parties would have to win every single election for at least a generation for Brexit to wither and die, whereas the pro-brexit parties only have to win once.

As Ken Clarke said, the UK will never be a stable member of the EU again. The eventual outcome is not in doubt - just the timing.

[dsr]

Your big problem is that you do not know as much about all this as you like to pretend Dsr!

Why are the rebels kicking off now? Why have they all united?

Can you explain to the rest of the readers why you think Scotland is a relatively minor court (and by definition, Wales and NI ones are) when we are a union?

Can you explain why Scottish law is different to English law in this regard? And why it might be significant?

EDIT - anyone not listening to this live, or at least following a feed is seriously missing out. This is the kind of stuff that only happens once.

It's a relatively minor court, by definition, because it has authority over only a relatively minor part of the country.

Now it may be that some fool has passed a law that accidentally appears to give this relatively minor court authority over the Queen and PM. If so, that law will obviously have to be repealed or amended. But if not, then all that will happen is that the case will go to appeal to the Supreme Court (which would have been the sensible place to start it because no other court can hope to have the authority to gainsay the Queen) and the first stage is a waste of time.

I still don't know what they are trying to prove, anyway. Is it that prorogation is unconstitutional per se, or just that someone else's authority other than the PM's and Queen's is needed to do it?

[Lancasterclaret]

I don't get why you're so defeatist either. A very hard Brexit/No deal is still virtually certain. If the Tories win a GE in a couple of months, hard brexit it is. If they win and fail to deliver a hard brexit, the government will fall and Farage wins the subsequent election = no deal. It might even take 3 or 4 elections, but it's only a matter of time before either the Tories or the Brexit Party get in with a manifesto pledge of a hard Brexit. Pro-remain parties would have to win every single election for at least a generation for Brexit to wither and die, whereas the pro-brexit parties only have to win once.

As Ken Clarke said, the UK will never be a stable member of the EU again. The eventual outcome is not in doubt - just the timing.

I disagree to be honest. I think Brexit backers have to win this one or they have had it. Lots of stuff will change before the next five years is up, and not in the favour of Brexiteers.

[Lancasterclaret]

It's a relatively minor court, by definition, because it has authority over only a relatively minor part of the country.

Now it may be that some fool has passed a law that accidentally appears to give this relatively minor court authority over the Queen and PM. If so, that law will obviously have to be repealed or amended. But if not, then all that will happen is that the case will go to appeal to the Supreme Court (which would have been the sensible place to start it because no other court can hope to have the authority to gainsay the Queen) and the first stage is a waste of time.

I still don't know what they are trying to prove, anyway. Is it that prorogation is unconstitutional per se, or just that someone else's authority other than the PM's and Queen's is needed to do it?

I knew you didn't know.

Yet you couldn't resist not replying.

Keep searching for the answer dsr (not a guarantee that it will be stopped btw, just makes it a more likely)

Trust me, its fascinating

[SonofPog]

….
What I don't get is the significance. Let's say this bill becomes law on Friday (if the Lords are quick about it), then we get a GE with Labour's support (which the Tories now want). If the Tories then win that GE, they can just repeal the bill again can't they? And therefore put no-deal back on the table?

Nobody in the media seems to be considering this. Have I missed a piece of the jigsaw or something?

Yes, they can and that's what BoJo is planning on doing. Labour want a No Deal bill, because they don't trust BoJo to call an election for the 14th, Parliament goes away, and then he changes the date of the election meaning we drop out with No Deal without them being able to do anything about it.

[If it be your will]

It’d have to get through the Lords as well, the make up of which wouldn’t really change. Besides, the bill instructs the PM to seek an extension if a deal hasn’t been done by 19th October. If there’s an election on 14th there’s no way they could repeal it in time.

Oh yes, there might be an extension. And yes, the make up of the Lords wouldn't change much. But the Parliamentary Act means the Lords can only reject it 3 times before the commons gets its way, and the bill is repealed. That's what I mean, hard brexit can be delayed a while, but it won't go away. (Not for a couple of decades, anyhow.)

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Hellooo!

Maybe you could help? Labour want to pass a bill that rules out no deal before they agree to a general election. I get that bit - makes perfect sense considering they are totally opposed to no-deal.

What I don't get is the significance. Let's say this bill becomes law on Friday (if the Lords are quick about it), then we get a GE with Labour's support (which the Tories now want). If the Tories then win that GE, they can just repeal the bill again can't they? And therefore put no-deal back on the table?

Nobody in the media seems to be considering this. Have I missed a piece of the jigsaw or something?

They won't agree to a general election until after 31st October or until the extension has been agreed with Brussels.

I would actually go down the unity government route instead now Johnson has sacked 21 MPs and just force him out.

[If it be your will]

Yes, they can and that's what BoJo is planning on doing. Labour want a No Deal bill, because they don't trust BoJo to call an election for the 14th, Parliament goes away, and then he changes the date of the election meaning we drop out with No Deal without them being able to do anything about it.

Ah right! So the only significance of passing this bill before a GE is called is in that chance Boris lies through his teeth about the date of the election?

I suppose anything is possible with Boris, but to promise an election on the 14th only to change his mind to the 31st would seem particularly outrageous, even for Boris.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

I imagine there will be repercussions of him withdrawing the whip from the rebels tomorrow, maybe more resignations or something even more drastic, tomorrow will be fun.

[If it be your will]

I disagree to be honest. I think Brexit backers have to win this one or they have had it. Lots of stuff will change before the next five years is up, and not in the favour of Brexiteers.

Like what?

[dsr]

I knew you didn't know.

Yet you couldn't resist not replying.

Keep searching for the answer dsr (not a guarantee that it will be stopped btw, just makes it a more likely)

Trust me, its fascinating

That's precisely the attitude which will contribute to your lot losing the general election. It's three years and you and your foul-mouthed sidekick, just like many other Remain supporters, still haven't learned that saying "I am cleverer than you, do as I say" isn't a vote winner.

If you actually know something useful, don't you think a more reasonable attitude would be to say what it is, rather than "sneer, spite, contempt"?

[scrambledclaret]

I can't help but wonder what Admiral Ackbar would think about all this. Surely BoJo and co haven't miscalculated to this extent?

[dsr]

Well they won’t be voting for a general election then will they!

There was a good piece on Newsnight about a Johnson’s options for calling an election. A) the vote he’s called but that will need a 2/3 majority B) a vote to ignore the fixed term parliament act that will just need a majority but will be amendable and therefore runs the risk that the opposition insert a ‘no no deal’ amendment C) calling a vote of no confidence and asking his own MPs to express no confidence in him. But that isn’t a good look and also allows a 14 day period for the opposition to form a government that does have confidence.

But the Remain party doesn't want a 14 day delay either, because if they do then the general election will be on or after 31st October.

If Remain don't vote for a general election, and then can't find a puppet Prime Minister, they're snookered. Game over. And if they do find a puppet Prime Minister, there will still be a general election shortly after 31st October because the puppet can't survive long, and so the Remain parties will go to the country saying "look at us, look what we have done, we have extended the Brexit chaos. Do you like that? Will you vote for us?"

[martin_p]

Oh yes, there might be an extension. And yes, the make up of the Lords wouldn't change much. But the Parliamentary Act means the Lords can only reject it 3 times before the commons gets its way, and the bill is repealed. That's what I mean, hard brexit can be delayed a while, but it won't go away. (Not for a couple of decades, anyhow.)

But that’s what this is about in the main, stopping no deal on 31st October, it would do that. Certainly if a GE returned a ‘no deal’ government then that’s what would happen irrespective of this week’s activities.

[dsr]

What will be interesting is how the Remain faction defend the refusal to call a general election. For prorogation it was

"Boris is using parliamentary procedure to force Brexit! It's a crime against democracy! Take to the streets and stop prorogation in the name of democracy!"

Now - "Boris is using parliamentary procedure to force Brexit! It's a crime against democracy! Take to the streets and stop the general election in the name of democracy!" It's not going to work.

It's a very hard argument to put that you a fighting for democracy by blocking an election.

[martin_p]

But the Remain party doesn't want a 14 day delay either, because if they do then the general election will be on or after 31st October.

If Remain don't vote for a general election, and then can't find a puppet Prime Minister, they're snookered. Game over. And if they do find a puppet Prime Minister, there will still be a general election shortly after 31st October because the puppet can't survive long, and so the Remain parties will go to the country saying "look at us, look what we have done, we have extended the Brexit chaos. Do you like that? Will you vote for us?"

They can only find a ‘puppet Prime Minister’ if there’s a confidence vote. That’s not the route Johnson is taking. His motion under the fixed term parliament act, if passed by the required two thirds majority, allows him to call an early election, but the date of the election is decided by the government after the motion is passed. The reason a Labour won’t vote for it is that despite advertising 14th October as the date he could decide to hold it later so that the period between 19th October and 1st November there’s no parliament, no government and no PM so no deal happens by default.

[RingoMcCartney]

I don't remember the referendum question being Leave (but only if I agree with it) or Remain.

May's deal was leaving the EU. That is an undeniable (but I'm sure many still will) fact.

And I don't remember people saying before the referendum. That theyd only accept the result if they agreed with it.

The new treaty meant we could no make our own trade deals like any self respecting sovereign nation can. Nor could we ever get out of it unilaterally. - Soft Remain.

[martin_p]

What will be interesting is how the Remain faction defend the refusal to call a general election. For prorogation it was

"Boris is using parliamentary procedure to force Brexit! It's a crime against democracy! Take to the streets and stop prorogation in the name of democracy!"

Now - "Boris is using parliamentary procedure to force Brexit! It's a crime against democracy! Take to the streets and stop the general election in the name of democracy!" It's not going to work.

It's a very hard argument to put that you a fighting for democracy by blocking an election.

See above. They’ll only agree to an election once the no deal bill is passed and then on a date that makes sure we have a PM to ask for an extension on 19th October.

[martin_p]

And I don't remember people saying before the referendum. That theyd only accept the result if they agreed with it.

The solution to this is another referendum with more precise questions!

[RingoMcCartney]

"deregulated, dynamic economy" - hahahaha!

No holidays , no pensions , no working rights, no maternity rights, no NHS , no income support, no care for the elderly, no good schools, no university places, no parks, no community centres , no public transport, no environmental rules, no food safety standards, no decent standards of living - unless you can personally afford it.

Comedy gold!!!

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

What will be interesting is how the Remain faction defend the refusal to call a general election. For prorogation it was

"Boris is using parliamentary procedure to force Brexit! It's a crime against democracy! Take to the streets and stop prorogation in the name of democracy!"

Now - "Boris is using parliamentary procedure to force Brexit! It's a crime against democracy! Take to the streets and stop the general election in the name of democracy!" It's not going to work.

It's a very hard argument to put that you a fighting for democracy by blocking an election.

No it isn't, they aren't falling for a pathetic ruse.

I see you've swallowed it hook, line and sinker though and are going to parrot out this ridiculous "blocking an election" crap.

Watch what happens to the Tory party tomorrow, I suspect some will cross the house and more will vote against the actual bill.
Tomorrow might end with him resigning.

[If it be your will]

The solution to this is another referendum with more precise questions!

I personally think there is no chance whatsoever a remain result will be respected by leavers any more than the leave result was respected by remainers. All that would happen in the event of a remain win would be a victory for either Farage or a hard leave Tory party in the following election, where only about 35% will be required for a parliamentary majority, rather than the 50% required in a referendum, then we leave via the parliamentary route instead.

The 2017 result is not going to go away.

[RingoMcCartney]

The solution to this is another referendum with more precise questions!

Why? Remoaners have never accepted the result of the 1st Peoples Vote. If Leave won a 2nd , do you expect us to believe youd accept that as well!? You've got previous!

Also, if Remain won a 2nd Peoples vote, then brexiteers would follow suit and expect a best of 3, 5, 7, ......

[CrosspoolClarets]

It’d have to get through the Lords as well, the make up of which wouldn’t really change. Besides, the bill instructs the PM to seek an extension if a deal hasn’t been done by 19th October. If there’s an election on 14th there’s no way they could repeal it in time.

Convention (if such a thing exists any more) is that the Lords cannot overturn a Government Bill (I.e. the bill to repeal the other bill) if that bill is in the Government manifesto - which you can be sure as hell it will be.

So yes, Boris is gambling everything on winning a majority over Corbyn. It is the parliamentary equivalent of an open goal, even at peak Corbyn and with the comatose May doing a useless campaign, he still lost. He has zero chance against Boris (a very small chance of a hung Parliament with Lib Dem’s winning 50+ seats and having the balance of power).

Corbyn has been boxed in, if he refuses the election Boris is hunting him down, calling him a coward at each media clip, we may have to extend A50 a bit but eventually Boris will get his election. I predict a majority of 50 when the time comes, then, finally, we leave.

p.s. when this all happened 3 years ago I went on record to say that I didn’t think we would actually leave, but that we would get a complete purge of our generation of technocrat-style useless MPs and a move to a more independent mindset. I thought the latter would take 10 years. It has taken 3 but we are now well underway. Great news tonight. That’s the big win from this whole thing, the EU is a relatively minor side issue.

[AndrewJB]

Comedy gold!!!

I nearly missed your post as I was listening to the French crapping themselves at the thought of our deregulated and dynamic economy.

[Colburn_Claret]

Negotiating a withdrawal agreement after the event defeats the point of an agreement on how to withdraw from the union. The purpose of the WA is to provide a smooth transition. We're back to that confusion some folks seem to be having between the 'deal' meaning the WA/political decleration, and post Brexit free-trade negotiations. You're either deliberately conflating the two, or, more likely, confused.

I do understand what you mean, but we voted to leave, not withdraw, and while an extending process of leave would help smooth the transition, it has to be understood by both sides what we are transitioning too. It also has to be understood, that there has to be a time limit, on how long it takes to reach that set point.
May's WA didn't answer the time limit, and where it was transitioning too, wasnt leaving.

[Colburn_Claret]

You haven't read it properly. They have already compromised by allowing us our own bespoke deal with the Irish border allowed unique status.

Oooh, we should be so grateful...

[Colburn_Claret]

It would probably be terminal if you have a business exporting or importing from somewhere in the EU and, if reports are to be believed, to half or more farmers but whatever, as long as you're ok.

IF reports are to believed.
You've answered your post for me.

[Colburn_Claret]

This has to be a parody account.

No, just highlighting a point that seems to be denied by the remainers on here, that there are experts who disagree with what they spout.
Why should one be more believable than the other.

I use my own common sense and experience , to make my own mind up. I'm one of the few posters on here that doesn't trawl through hours of internet blogs, trying to prove something I believe, when I know there's probably just as many blogs countering the same thing.
It's pointless.
It's why when people ask me for the proof, I dont bother. Why waste my own time, I've better things to do.

[Spiral]

I do understand what you mean, but we voted to leave, not withdraw, and while an extending process of leave would help smooth the transition, it has to be understood by both sides what we are transitioning too. It also has to be understood, that there has to be a time limit, on how long it takes to reach that set point.
May's WA didn't answer the time limit, and where it was transitioning too, wasnt leaving.

Is there even any point in responding to that?

The rest of your post isn't anything that hasn't already been covered so I fear I'd be wasting my time arguing or explaining in any great detail how the transition period - while dependent on the backstop which is itself subject to solutions to the Irish border problem - has a defined end-point; or how the post-Brexit aims and ambitions are defined in the political declaration; or how leaving the European Union, in fact, fulfils the referendum result. With that, I bid you adieu, for I'd have a more productive time and better luck explaining this all to my dog.

[Colburn_Claret]

You need to face reality dsr.

Surely you see that now?

There is a deal which means we leave the EU. You were warned repeatedly on here by me (and others) that if you pushed for the harshest Brexit ever then this might happen.

There are the numbers for a deal I suspect, and there is a chance to vote for one tomorrow.

Take it.

You have no right to tell Leavers what any deal should be on Brexit. You didn't vote for it.
Democracy is defined as by people having the right to vote on their future. It is based on accepting the majority decision. If you dont honour that majority, democracy falls apart.
Any deal voted FOR, by the politicians who took control of the house today, would be the biggest betrayal of democracy, and the public, ever.
Where the hell do you think you have the right to overturn the referendum, to barter on my behalf, for something you didn't even want. Without even the courage to go back to the people and see what they think. To find out if they have changed their minds. This lack of democracy, is exactly why I wanted to leave the EU in the first place. They dont accept NO either. They just keep rewording, revoting, until they get their way. Even to the point of trying to do deals without the authority of its people.
Kate Hoey has it sussed when she says remainers were in touch with the EU, on how to word the bill in the House today. The EU proposing votes in the HOC. Then you want the people who proposed the vote on behalf of the EU, to make a deal with the EU for us.
I wonder what the hell that is likely to be, I'll explain.
The EU write the offer for the remainers, and then the EU accept it. Then they go around congratulating each other on how easy it is when people cooperate. Another great day for democracy.

It doesn't matter wether you agree or not, democracy by any standard, means the people have the right to be wrong. You dont like it, tough. If you allow them to do this then you're a ******* muppet, because it might be my opinion that they are shiiting on tomorrow, but it's your rights they are shitting on as well.

[The Enclosure]

We should accept Mays deal .accept the backstop and sort the rest out in the coming years otherwise there really is no other answer to this impasse.

Ps. And let the Scots get on with their own thing if thats what they want...Am sick of listening to that Ian Blackford and watching Rees Mogg sprawled across the front benches like an arrogant p...k.

[Spijed]

p.s. when this all happened 3 years ago I went on record to say that I didn’t think we would actually leave, but that we would get a complete purge of our generation of technocrat-style useless MPs and a move to a more independent mindset.

"independent mindset."

Basically an excuse for more racist, right-wing candidates then.

[Greenmile]

...People end up believing everything as fact, if it supports their point of view, and dismiss as lies everything that counters it...

No, just highlighting a point that seems to be denied by the remainers on here, that there are experts who disagree with what they spout.
Why should one be more believable than the other.

I use my own common sense and experience , to make my own mind up. I'm one of the few posters on here that doesn't trawl through hours of internet blogs, trying to prove something I believe, when I know there's probably just as many blogs countering the same thing.
It's pointless.
It's why when people ask me for the proof, I dont bother. Why waste my own time, I've better things to do.

Yep - definitely a parody account. No real poster could be so lacking in self-awareness, surely?

[Spijed]

Corbyn has been boxed in, if he refuses the election Boris is hunting him down, calling him a coward at each media clip, we may have to extend A50 a bit but eventually Boris will get his election. I predict a majority of 50 when the time comes, then, finally, we leave.

I think you are underestimating local issues here. For many, the NHS is just as important as Brexit and any accusations that even a small part of it is up for sale once we leave won't go down well with voters.

[Spijed]

Yep - definitely a parody account. No real poster could be so lacking in self-awareness, surely?

Have you noticed how similar Crosspool & colburn are in their opinions?

hmmm...

[Cirrus_Minor]

Comedy gold!!!

Watching the tories disintegrate after just few weeks of a Johnston government is real comedy gold.

[Lancasterclaret]

Oooh, we should be so grateful...

But they have compromised.

Reality CC, just more reality

[Bordeauxclaret]

You need to face reality dsr.

Surely you see that now?

Keep dreaming.

[martin_p]

You have no right to tell Leavers what any deal should be on Brexit. You didn't vote for it.
Democracy is defined as by people having the right to vote on their future. It is based on accepting the majority decision. If you dont honour that majority, democracy falls apart.

Anyone see the slight irony in these statements

[martin_p]

Convention (if such a thing exists any more) is that the Lords cannot overturn a Government Bill (I.e. the bill to repeal the other bill) if that bill is in the Government manifesto - which you can be sure as hell it will be.

So yes, Boris is gambling everything on winning a majority over Corbyn. It is the parliamentary equivalent of an open goal, even at peak Corbyn and with the comatose May doing a useless campaign, he still lost. He has zero chance against Boris (a very small chance of a hung Parliament with Lib Dem’s winning 50+ seats and having the balance of power).

Corbyn has been boxed in, if he refuses the election Boris is hunting him down, calling him a coward at each media clip, we may have to extend A50 a bit but eventually Boris will get his election. I predict a majority of 50 when the time comes, then, finally, we leave.

p.s. when this all happened 3 years ago I went on record to say that I didn’t think we would actually leave, but that we would get a complete purge of our generation of technocrat-style useless MPs and a move to a more independent mindset. I thought the latter would take 10 years. It has taken 3 but we are now well underway. Great news tonight. That’s the big win from this whole thing, the EU is a relatively minor side issue.

Convention or not, there won’t be time after an election to overturn this legislation, the PM has to ask for an extension by 19th August. Besides Corbyn and co aren’t going to fall for Johnson’s trap, so while there’ll probably be an election this year October 14th is starting to look unlikely.

[Lancasterclaret]

Where are the Conservatives going to get their seats to have a majority from?

Scotland? Saved them last time but that was 100% because of Ruth Davidson, and she's gone and doesn't back Boris

SW England? Only going to lose down there to Lib Dem surges

London? Will get wiped out

North and the Midlands? Only place they might gain, but if people in Doncaster etc vote for the Tories after what happened under Thatcher, they deserve all they get quite frankly.

And the last three years mess is a Tory Government strategy, and people tend to blame the government.

GE is a huge gamble for Boris, possibly a referendum is the only way he holds power and can enact what he wants.

But he's killed that by wiping out the centre and left of his party.

He's gambling a lot on the polls (which were wrong in 2017 don't forget)