Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[RingoMcCartney]

Corbyn - " The prime minister is running away from scrutiny"

Have a general election and let the people scrutinise him.

"Wooooah.!!!Wooooah!!! Just hang on a month or two!!"

[If it be your will]

Nah bring it on. Anything to bring us closer to electoral reform.

Do you know, I've wondered that myself. The only way I can think of to take Brexit off the table long-term would be for a hung parliament, but a hung parliament that manages to legislate electoral reform - to a PR system - before imploding into yet another GE. Only from that moment on, all elections would be under a PR format. That might well bury Brexit for good.

Anything short of this and a hard Brexit is ultimately inevitable, because it's only a matter of time before a brexity-type party gets a parliamentary majority and takes us out.

[Lowbankclaret]

Heaven help us!

Based on one of the latest opinion polls Boris would get a majority of 28 if the Brexit party stands MP’s and 84 if they don’t.

I get an increasing sense of anger towards all the MP’s who are fighting against Brexit. I think this could be a historic vote if it happens in Oct

Most people are not following what’s going on at the EU and it’s moved since we had our vote.

It announced its intention to create an EU army.

Member will be forced to join the Euro.

Fiscal policy will be centralised and taxes set from Brussels not Westminster.

When the campaign starts and people find what going to happen if we stay in you may find more and more people realising we are best off out

[Lancasterclaret]

George Pascoe Watson - "Boris landing punches"

Then, like your economic forecaster for the DBU, he's on his own!

[RingoMcCartney]

Do you know, I've wondered that myself. The only way I can think of to take Brexit off the table long-term would be for a hung parliament, but a hung parliament that manages to legislate electoral reform - to a PR system - before imploding into yet another GE. Only from that moment on, all elections would be under a PR format. That might well bury Brexit for good.

Anything short of this and a hard Brexit is ultimately inevitable, because it's only a matter of time before a brexity-type party gets a parliamentary majority and takes us out.

Out of interest, do you, like me, believe that PR is a positive thing because, it means that you dont end up where , if you live in a certain constituency. Realistically, you vote doesn't count given the incumbent has a massive majority?

[Lancasterclaret]

Based on one of the latest opinion polls Boris would get a majority of 28 if the Brexit party stands MP’s and 84 if they don’t.

I get an increasing sense of anger towards all the MP’s who are fighting against Brexit. I think this could be a historic vote if it happens in Oct

Most people are not following what’s going on at the EU and it’s moved since we had our vote.

It announced its intention to create an EU army.

Member will be forced to join the Euro.

Fiscal policy will be centralised and taxes set from Brussels not Westminster.

When the campaign starts and people find what going to happen if we stay in you may find more and more people realising we are best off out

You need to stop lying to people to win Lowbank.

Tell people the truth, and let them decide, don't try to hoodwink them and hope it doesn't matter.

Surely the last three years have taught us that?

[AlargeClaret]

If Boris got no dealers on board ie Farage’s lot he could get a thumping majority and the rest know damn well hence why they’ll wait till he either resigns or opinion polls say otherwise before voting for a GE , imo . Farago pun intended could also wreak “ Tory havoc “ on the flip side

[If it be your will]

Out of interest, do you, like me, believe that PR is a positive thing because, it means that you dont end up where , if you live in a certain constituency. Realistically, you vote doesn't count given the incumbent has a massive majority?

I think FPTP is the worst of the 3 main electoral systems. I think I just about favour AV over PR, though, but either would be a positive step over FPTP.

[elwaclaret]

I can’t imagine that more than about 2% of the population can really, and I mean really relate to Boris.

Maybe a few remember him on HIGNFY or saw him acting like a tit on a zip wire and thought he was a normal bloke.

There is obviously a level of guesswork... my point was based upon people like my other half who has no interest in politics, but has a right of centre view of the world ( despite spending years previously on the breadline), and her friends who would vote BJ because he’s “real” not a suit. Not saying it is a good thing, just that I expect it is a bigger influence than many of us might expect.

[dsr]

There is obviously a level of guesswork... my point was based upon people like my other half who has no interest in politics, but has a right of centre view of the world ( despite spending years previously on the breadline), and her friends who would vote BJ because he’s “real” not a suit. Not saying it is a good thing, just that I expect it is a bigger influence than many of us might expect.

I agree. Trump's election in the USA showed just how unpopular identikit, career politicians are; there will be similar factors over here.

[AlargeClaret]

3618B8B8-8C2B-4AE8-BD16-F0AB8AC20A74.jpeg (77.79 KiB) Viewed 1585 times

Be careful what you wish for

[RingoMcCartney]

Then, like your economic forecaster for the DBU, he's on his own!

Pascoe Watson, just like the Deutsch Bank chief economic forecaster, (who said positive things about no deal) they are both paid for their highly respected opinions.







Unlike you.

[Lancasterclaret]

I agree. Trump's election in the USA showed just how unpopular identikit, career politicians are; there will be similar factors over here.

Worth remembering though that Trump won by their system, not by the popular vote.

That is quite important, though the point you make is perfectly valid.

[Spijed]

I get an increasing sense of anger towards all the MP’s who are fighting against Brexit. I think this could be a historic vote if it happens in Oct

If that's the case then there would hardly be any remain MPs left.

Even in Scotland, if what you say is true then the Tories could do quite well.

However, almost half voted to remain. Do you think they are suddenly going to change their minds?

[martin_p]

Pascoe Watson, just like the Deutsch Bank chief economic forecaster, (who said positive things about no deal) they are both paid for their highly respected opinions.







Unlike you.

So if I give Lancaster 50p to say Johnson is **** you’ll take notice of it then!

[If it be your will]

If Boris got no dealers on board ie Farage’s lot he could get a thumping majority and the rest know damn well hence why they’ll wait till he either resigns or opinion polls say otherwise before voting for a GE , imo . Farago pun intended could also wreak “ Tory havoc “ on the flip side

If Farage only fields candidates against remain supporting incumbent MPs (most of which will be Labour MPs), the Tories would walk it. The only danger for the Tories is a split in the leave vote between them and Brexit Party - avoid this and they win easily. I see no chance of an equivalent pact between Green/Lab/Lib, so the remain vote would be split 3 ways with catastrophic results for all of them.

(I think Boris would win a GE easily, by the way. I was just wondering why others don't.)

[Lancasterclaret]

Pascoe Watson, just like the Deutsch Bank chief economic forecaster, (who said positive things about no deal) they are both paid for their highly respected opinions.







Unlike you.

Two personal attacks today so far. You do know how that looks yeah?

All I'm asking you to do is to find more evidence, rather than trotting out the same person all the time. It shouldn't be that hard if you (and he) are correct should it?

[Lancasterclaret]

Johnston is ****

(Invoice on its way)

[Spijed]

There is obviously a level of guesswork... my point was based upon people like my other half who has no interest in politics, but has a right of centre view of the world ( despite spending years previously on the breadline), and her friends who would vote BJ because he’s “real” not a suit. Not saying it is a good thing, just that I expect it is a bigger influence than many of us might expect.

But didn't Corbyn come up on the rails in 2017 precisely because he came across as genuine and sincere in his beliefs?

Labour retaining most of the seats many expected them to lose.

[aggi]

Based on one of the latest opinion polls Boris would get a majority of 28 if the Brexit party stands MP’s and 84 if they don’t.

I get an increasing sense of anger towards all the MP’s who are fighting against Brexit. I think this could be a historic vote if it happens in Oct

Most people are not following what’s going on at the EU and it’s moved since we had our vote.

It announced its intention to create an EU army.

Member will be forced to join the Euro.

Fiscal policy will be centralised and taxes set from Brussels not Westminster.

When the campaign starts and people find what going to happen if we stay in you may find more and more people realising we are best off out

Wayhey, more Lowbank bullshit

[dsr]

If that's the case then there would hardly be any remain MPs left.

Even in Scotland, if what you say is true then the Tories could do quite well.

However, almost half voted to remain. Do you think they are suddenly going to change their minds?

There are two options:

A combination of Boris Johnson and "We can get it sorted"
A combination of Jeremy Corby and "We want this thing to drag on longer".

A lot of people in the "not all that bothered either way" camp, whether they voted Remain or Leave, may well be more tempted by the former than the latter.

[If it be your will]

If that's the case then there would hardly be any remain MPs left.

Even in Scotland, if what you say is true then the Tories could do quite well.

However, almost half voted to remain. Do you think they are suddenly going to change their minds?

Definitely not, but they will be split 3 ways (4 in Scotland). If the leave vote doesn't split, they could get an absolutely enormous majority. Do you think the remain parties will organise a pact not to stand against each other? I can't see it - not within 6 weeks, anyway.

[RingoMcCartney]

Do you know, I've wondered that myself. The only way I can think of to take Brexit off the table long-term would be for a hung parliament, but a hung parliament that manages to legislate electoral reform - to a PR system - before imploding into yet another GE. Only from that moment on, all elections would be under a PR format. That might well bury Brexit for good.

Anything short of this and a hard Brexit is ultimately inevitable, because it's only a matter of time before a brexity-type party gets a parliamentary majority and takes us out.

I just find it interesting that you should be promoting a voting system that makes each and every vote more relevant , valid and , critically, equal.

To thwart the result of a referendum of which , the result came about where, by it's very nature, every single vote had relevance, validity and equality......


I want PR cos it's more democratic.

You seem to want it to thwart democracy.

[aggi]

Corbyn better than no-deal Brexit, say investment banks as anti-capitalist Labour wins unlikely new City fans
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... apitalist/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In a somewhat surprising turn of events it's got to the point where the Telegraph is running favourable Corbyn stories where a couple of investment banks (one of which is Deutsche Bank whose views I believe Brexit voters are now fully supportive of) are saying Corbyn would be a better option than No Deal.

[Colburn_Claret]

And this is why the country is ******. The arrogance to state that 48% of the country should have no say in the future of the country.

I know you like to blame everyone but your own side for us not having left yet but this kind of stance is the real reason we haven't left the EU. Telling virtually half of the country "you lost, go screw yourself" and then whinging when they push back is spectacularly self-absorbed.

As usual you are missing the point.
We voted to leave
Remain MPs, who lost the vote, hijack Parliament, in order to do their own deal, which will me we remain.
And you claim I'm arrogant.
How can remain, in any democratic society, tell Leavers what leave means.

[Spijed]

Definitely not, but they will be split 3 ways (4 in Scotland). If the leave vote doesn't split, they could get an absolutely enormous majority. Do you think the remain parties will organise a pact not to stand against each other? I can't see it - not within 6 weeks, anyway.

The Tories are finished in Scotland for a start and they are not going to win many seats in places like Sunderland

[RingoMcCartney]

Wayhey, more Lowbank bullshit

Weyhey! More reality denial from "outright lies" aggi!

Par for the course I guess. He's playing off democracy denial.

[If it be your will]

But didn't Corbyn come up on the rails in 2017 precisely because he came across as genuine and sincere in his beliefs?

Labour retaining most of the seats many expected them to lose.

The sincerity argument is not going to be easy to pull off this time. All it needs is a few Facebook ads, clips of Corbyn and McDonnell raging against the EU (which they did for 30 years, of course), alongside a more recent clips in support of the EU, and a lot of people will conclude Corbyn's front bench is full of ****. I have.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

3618B8B8-8C2B-4AE8-BD16-F0AB8AC20A74.jpeg

Be careful what you wish for

Better them than this...

[RingoMcCartney]

Two personal attacks today so far. You do know how that looks yeah?

All I'm asking you to do is to find more evidence, rather than trotting out the same person all the time. It shouldn't be that hard if you (and he) are correct should it?

Pascoe Watson, just like the Deutsch Bank chief economic forecaster, (who said positive things about no deal) they are both paid for their highly respected opinions.







Unlike you.

Personal attack?

Dont be so thin skinned.

I was simply stating fact.

The chief economist at Deutsch bank(who says no deal could be positive) and George Pascoe Watson are paid for their highly respected opinions.




You aren't.

Fact.

Wheres the "personal attack?"


If you want to see "personsl attacks" go back up this thread and look at shoite I get. Get over your self Lancaster claret.

[If it be your will]

I just find it interesting that you should be promoting a voting system that makes each and every vote more relevant , valid and , critically, equal.

To thwart the result of a referendum of which , the result came about where, by it's very nature, every single vote had relevance, validity and equality......


I want PR cos it's more democratic.

You seem to want it to thwart democracy.

Your memory is absolutely shocking. This must be the fourth time I've said this to you, so I'll try capitals and bold to see if it sinks in this time:

I WANT TO LEAVE THE EU.

[RingoMcCartney]

So if I give Lancaster 50p to say Johnson is **** you’ll take notice of it then!

It would be a paid for opinion.





You missed the "highly respected" part out.....

[claret2018]

I suspect last night was the beginning of the end of brexit. I think we’ll end up with another referendum before too long which will be No Deal or Remain.

It’s been proved over the last 3 years that an acceptable deal isn’t possible, and no politician can push through a no deal without a mandate.

[Spijed]

The sincerity argument is not going to be easy to pull off this time. All it needs is a few Facebook ads, clips of Corbyn and McDonnell raging against the EU (which they did for 30 years, of course), alongside a more recent clips in support of the EU, and a lot of people will conclude Corbyn's front bench is full of ****. I have.

But will quotes of Boris saying "Black people with water melon smiles are better off in the colonies " do him any good?

[dsr]

Better them than this...

Even in today's time of mock outrage, it's surely hard to get too worked up about someone slouching in a room where nothing is happening.

[Colburn_Claret]

Anyone see the slight irony in these statements

I dont, but I'm sure you can explain why the minority have the right to choose how we leave, in reality remain, in the EU.
If they had any faith in what they are doing, the courage of their convictions, they could use the opportunity to back a GE, get the support of the people.
That isnt going to happen though, because they know at the ballot box they'd lose.
One day you complain at Boris proroging Parliament, the next you're cheering at shafting the public another chance to show their wishes.

I know you wont, because its indefensible, but here's your opportunity to tell all us Leavers why that's right. Why that's legal. Why that's democratic.

[RingoMcCartney]

Your memory is absolutely shocking. This must be the fourth time I've said this to you, so I'll try capitals and bold to see if it sinks in this time:

I WANT TO LEAVE THE EU.

Perhaps it's your memory that's lacking.

Within the hour you posted

Do you know, I've wondered that myself. The only way I can think of to take Brexit off the table long-term would be for a hung parliament, but a hung parliament that manages to legislate electoral reform - to a PR system - before imploding into yet another GE. Only from that moment on, all elections would be under a PR format. That might well bury Brexit for good.

Anything short of this and a hard Brexit is ultimately inevitable, because it's only a matter of time before a brexity-type party gets a parliamentary majority and takes us out.

If you WANT TO LEAVE THE EU.

Why would you want to bury "brexit for good"?

[If it be your will]

But will quotes of Boris saying "Black people with water melon smiles are better off in the colonies " do him any good?

It's a sorry state of affairs, I know, but I suspect it won't do a great deal of harm. Whereas Corbyn's entire campaign was based on sincerity. I've still got my Straight Talking Honest Politics mug, for instance. What a mug.

[elwaclaret]

But didn't Corbyn come up on the rails in 2017 precisely because he came across as genuine and sincere in his beliefs?

Labour retaining most of the seats many expected them to lose.

Yes but the Corbyn bounce was palpable. Teresa May could have been Teresa Meh. Labour’s pro leave contingent remain in the shadows of his party and his rating has fallen dramatically within the remain section.

Labour is in anything, in more danger than the Tories. Trust me I am not gloating, I think it could spell disaster for a lot of people who need help quickly.

[RingoMcCartney]

I suspect last night was the beginning of the end of brexit. I think we’ll end up with another referendum before too long which will be No Deal or Remain.

It’s been proved over the last 3 years that an acceptable deal isn’t possible, and no politician can push through a no deal without a mandate.

Its been proven that to a 75% remoaner parliament will not accept any deal.

Parliament was given a mandate. The result of the lagest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed.

"Leave "

[Lancasterclaret]

Its been proven that to a 75% remoaner parliament will not accept any deal.

Parliament was given a mandate. The result of the lagest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed.

"Leave "

And might still happen, if people don't keep insisting on a "No Deal" Brexit.

Same to you as I've said to Dsr, both CCs and Lowbank

"Keep pushing for the most extreme Brexit possible, and the danger is that there is no Brexit at all"

[dsr]

And might still happen, if people don't keep insisting on a "No Deal" Brexit.

Same to you as I've said to Dsr, both CCs and Lowbank

"Keep pushing for the most extreme Brexit possible, and the danger is that there is no Brexit at all"

No Brexit at all would be better than a May's deal. In either case we would be subject to all the rules and have to make the EU payments, minus the £39bn in the former case of course, and the former has an escape clause.

If we sign May's deal, it's over. We are stuck.

[Spijed]

Yes but the Corbyn bounce was palpable. Teresa May could have been Teresa Meh. Labour’s pro leave contingent remain in the shadows of his party and his rating has fallen dramatically within the remain section.

Labour is in anything, in more danger than the Tories. Trust me I am not gloating, I think it could spell disaster for a lot of people who need help quickly.

Even the tories recovered from 1997

[Lancasterclaret]

No Brexit at all would be better than a May's deal. In either case we would be subject to all the rules and have to make the EU payments, minus the £39bn in the former case of course, and the former has an escape clause.

If we sign May's deal, it's over. We are stuck.

Thats not remotely the case. Its a Brexit, and you can then sign your FTAs after the two year transitional period.

There isn't the need for the doom and gloom that Brexiteers have today.

There is a need for some acceptance of reality though!

[Spijed]

Yes but the Corbyn bounce was palpable. Teresa May could have been Teresa Meh. Labour’s pro leave contingent remain in the shadows of his party and his rating has fallen dramatically within the remain section.

Labour is in anything, in more danger than the Tories. Trust me I am not gloating, I think it could spell disaster for a lot of people who need help quickly.

Even the tories recovered from 1997

[aggi]

Weyhey! More reality denial from "outright lies" aggi!

Par for the course I guess. He's playing off democracy denial.

Wayhey. Ringo's joining in.

A few questions. I know you'll just babble rather than answering them with facts but let's try:

1. Please provide evidence for Lowbank's made up claims. Or if you agree that they're bullshit then say so.

2. Please explain why RBS, Lloyds, HBOS and various other had to divest themselves of various business groups, spin off into separate companies and set up a fund for their smaller competitors. You need to do this without mentioning the EU (as you claimed the EU said the bailout was fine so it can't be anything to do with them).

3. Please explain why me wanting us to leave the EU on something akin to May's deal whereas you stamped your foot and said no makes me the one who is refusing to respect the referendum and leave the EU (bear in mind that the referendum only referred to leaving the EU, not what the deal was, so vague comments about not really leaving are meaningless, we're talking facts here).

[elwaclaret]

And might still happen, if people don't keep insisting on a "No Deal" Brexit.

Same to you as I've said to Dsr, both CCs and Lowbank

"Keep pushing for the most extreme Brexit possible, and the danger is that there is no Brexit at all"

I disagree only so much as I think Boris’s steamroller was to focus minds on his deal, which I fully expected to arrive (in whatever form). Had Parliament rejected it and then forwarded the law Boris would be dead in the water... as it his he can now play the blame game against a largely unimpressive Opposition(s). He will attack Labour that remains hamstrung over brexit and antisemitism, while the Liberal Democrat’s are rarely in tune with domestic issues.

If I were a party activist I’d be looking for where Boris will come next. He will return to the attack and that would be my major focus right now, it is far too early for anyone to think the balance has tipped. IMHO there is a lot to play out yet.

[martin_p]

Its been proven that to a 75% remoaner parliament will not accept any deal.

Parliament was given a mandate. The result of the lagest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed.

"Leave "

But you were against the May deal. We’d have left six months ago had that been supported by Brexiteers.

[aggi]

Personal attack?

Dont be so thin skinned.

I was simply stating fact.

The chief economist at Deutsch bank(who says no deal could be positive) and George Pascoe Watson are paid for their highly respected opinions.




You aren't.

Fact.

Wheres the "personal attack?"


If you want to see "personsl attacks" go back up this thread and look at shoite I get. Get over your self Lancaster claret.

He doesn't. You've made that up as well.

[RingoMcCartney]

And might still happen, if people don't keep insisting on a "No Deal" Brexit.

Same to you as I've said to Dsr, both CCs and Lowbank

"Keep pushing for the most extreme Brexit possible, and the danger is that there is no Brexit at all"

I'm pushing for a general election to get a parliament that reflects the way the country voted in the referendum.

Hopefully, that new, non 75% remoaner, parliament will finally implement the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed.