Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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Darthlaw
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Darthlaw » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:33 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Problem is he hasn't got a deal

He's promised everyone the backstop must go.

Its absolutely 100% sure that the EU will never agree to that.

There are lots and lots of reports that the EU have received no new proposals, lots and lots of reports that the UK team is 1/4 of the size of the previous one, the support base for the PM is the ERG and his Chief of Staff is the biggest "No Deal" advocate out there.

No one believes he wants a deal, because all the evidence points the other way.
As much as I detest taking the option of no deal off the table (purely as a negotiating tool), it’s hard to argue with the above.

Boris’ duplicitous history has come back to haunt him here. Whilst I think he is capable of negotiating a deal, he’s equally culpable for the position he is in.

aggi
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:34 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:The EU is not a static organisation.

Never has been.

It’s always been about expansion and increased control over its members.

Just read it’s history.

You guys just seem to blindly believe it’s all good.
No. I believe that the UK has enough carve-outs and vetoes (which we will lose if an ill considered Brexit goes badly and we end up rejoining) to resist those things you're so worried about.

I assume you are now admitting that they're just things you made up and not facts as you first presented them.

You seem to think that the UK is too weak to resist this further integration but strong enough to go it alone.
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martin_p
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:35 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:What worries me is two things

One the Dutch MEP quote that we need it to defeat Russia. I don’t want us attacking anyone, let alone Russia.

Two, an unelected commission can use it to suppress us the plebs.

Look at France and the yellow jackets being beaten.

Whilst the current incumbents might not do it, who knows who will get into power in the future.

People ruled by unelected bodies really need to be very careful how much power they give them.
Blimey, I thought it was Remain who were supposed to do project fear!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Blackrod » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:08 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:After today it's pretty clear that Corbyn's a far superior leader than Johnson who can't lead a ****-up in the proverbial brewery.

Abbott might be cringeworthy at times, but she keeps getting elected so she's obviously more competent than her public image suggests, and having her in government is much better than having Dominic Cummings in it. Johnson's a joke, and so is his shambles of a government.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:15 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:And Ken Clarke and twenty other Conservative MPs think he doesn't.
It's not that Ken Clarke and the rest dont believe he wants a deal there frightened because he wants a deal
They dont, not at any price. It's still a fact, it's not about how we leave, its leaving that they want to stop.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:17 pm

martin_p wrote:But anyone who doesn’t want a clean break and voted to leave the eu is a democracy denying traitor. Can you see why I’m sensing a touch of hypocrisy. I do it Wrongo style to help you.

Remainers - there’s no mandate for a no deal Brexit

Brexiteers - it just said leave on the ballot paper not how we should leave!

Theresa May - I’ve got us a deal that means we leave the EU on 29th March

Brexiteers - I don’t like your Brexit that’s not how we should leave

Theresa May - it just said leave on the ballot paper not how we should leave

Brexiteers - we need a clean break, a no deal Brexit

Remainers - there’s no mandate for a no deal Brexit

Brexiteers - it just said leave on the ballot paper not how we should leave!
All that effort to show you're delusional.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Greenmile » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:17 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:....A community argue over what colour they should paint the outside of the village hall. Some want Red, some want Green.
They vote on it and 51.3% vote Green.
Then those that wanted Red demand that they get to choose what shade of Green it should be.
That seems like an entirely reasonable demand to me.

To clarify, I’m talking only about the village hall situation, and not whatever it’s supposed to be analogous to.

To clarify further, however, the idea that the voices of the 48% should be completely ignored when it comes to the type of Brexit we get is completely undemocratic, not to mention insane.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:21 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:It's not that Ken Clarke and the rest dont believe he wants a deal there frightened because he wants a deal
They dont, not at any price. It's still a fact, it's not about how we leave, its leaving that they want to stop.
It still isn't a fact.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:22 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:It's not that Ken Clarke and the rest dont believe he wants a deal there frightened because he wants a deal
They dont, not at any price. It's still a fact, it's not about how we leave, its leaving that they want to stop.
If he wants a deal why has no one been given any indication as to what that deal is?

No one in the Tory party knows of any new deal, nor does anyone in the EU for that matter.

He's not come up with a single new proposal, not one little idea to break the impasse.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:28 pm

Spijed wrote:If he wants a deal why has no one been given any indication as to what that deal is?

No one in the Tory party knows of any new deal, nor does anyone in the EU for that matter.

He's not come up with a single new proposal, not one little idea to break the impasse.
Nail on the head if he wants a deal provide workable alternative arrangements for the backstop question for starters,then people might take this joker seriously.

I don't agree with JC often but his response was straight to the point.

Jeremy Corbyn begins his response.

"This prime minister claims he has a strategy," he says.

"But he can't tell us what it is.

"The bigger problem for him is he can't tell the EU what it is either."

"It is like the emperor's new clothes - there really is absolutely nothing there."

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:29 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:It's not that Ken Clarke and the rest dont believe he wants a deal there frightened because he wants a deal
They dont, not at any price. It's still a fact, it's not about how we leave, its leaving that they want to stop.
That would be a more convincing argument if he hadn't consistently voted to leave the EU under the withdrawal agreement.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:33 pm

Greenmile wrote:That seems like an entirely reasonable demand to me.

To clarify, I’m talking only about the village hall situation, and not whatever it’s supposed to be analogous to.

To clarify further, however, the idea that the voices of the 48% should be completely ignored when it comes to the type of Brexit we get is completely undemocratic, not to mention insane.
I have never said that the 48% shouldnt be allowed to voice their opinion, and a reasonable person would consider it, but they dont have the right to dictate it either, which is exactly what they are attempting to do.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by scrambledclaret » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:37 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:It's not that Ken Clarke and the rest dont believe he wants a deal there frightened because he wants a deal
They dont, not at any price. It's still a fact, it's not about how we leave, its leaving that they want to stop.
Poppycock! I taught my German/Slovak partner this word recently, she loves it. Weirdly people here in Germany have an enormous soft spot for the English, even if it isn't fully reciprocated.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:40 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:It's not that Ken Clarke and the rest dont believe he wants a deal there frightened because he wants a deal
They dont, not at any price. It's still a fact, it's not about how we leave, its leaving that they want to stop.
That’ll be why he voted to leave with a deal, three times.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:41 pm

Spijed wrote:If he wants a deal why has no one been given any indication as to what that deal is?

No one in the Tory party knows of any new deal, nor does anyone in the EU for that matter.

He's not come up with a single new proposal, not one little idea to break the impasse.
As long as remainers try to block a deal, any discussion is absolutely pointless. Do you see Brussels discussing their options in public, or having to do it in the presence of MEPs in Brussels.
Anyone who has ever taken part in negotiations, and there must be lots of Trade Unionists in here, knows you dont go into a meeting with management to discuss a pay rise with them knowing everything you've been discussing in private.

No one wants a no deal, but taking it off the table prevents a deal, it doesn't improve it. Its self defeating, but THAT is what remainers want. They want Boris in a position where he cant get a deal, and he cant leave without one. Guess what that leaves us with. Remain.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:46 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:As long as remainers try to block a deal, any discussion is absolutely pointless. Do you see Brussels discussing their options in public, or having to do it in the presence of MEPs in Brussels.
Anyone who has ever taken part in negotiations, and there must be lots of Trade Unionists in here, knows you dont go into a meeting with management to discuss a pay rise with them knowing everything you've been discussing in private.

No one wants a no deal, but taking it off the table prevents a deal, it doesn't improve it. Its self defeating, but THAT is what remainers want. They want Boris in a position where he cant get a deal, and he cant leave without one. Guess what that leaves us with. Remain.
One thing I do know about negotiations is that you have to be talking to the other side. The other side say that hasn’t happened. So what exactly is being stopped.

The ERG DO want no deal.
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Greenmile
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Greenmile » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:50 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:...Do you see Brussels discussing their options in public...
Yes, you do. Unlike our govt, the EU negotiators are pretty transparent (and prepared, and competent, and honest etc etc).

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/brexit- ... kingdom_en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We’re not negotiating a pay rise, or buying a used car here. We’re not even deciding what colour to paint the village hall. “Common sense” will only get you so far when a situations as complex as this.
Last edited by Greenmile on Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

tiger76
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:50 pm

To get a deal you have to negotiate,Boris said during the leadership campaign he had a solution to the Irish backstop,where is it?

Damian Grammaticas
@dngbbc
As for any current negotiations, EU sources telling the BBC that, despite 4 hours of talks in Brussels today with Boris Johnson’s chief EU advisor David Frost, there have been NO new proposals from the UK. The EU has been waiting, and source says is “still at that stage today.”

Mind you Boris doesn't even know who he's supposed to be talking to FGS.


Boris Johnson says an election would decide if he or Jeremy Corbyn go to “those negotiations in Brussels on Oct 17th”. Wrong. There is NO NEGOTIATION at any EU summit. A UK leader doesn't negotiate directly with EU leaders. Negotiation has to be with the EU Commission/M Barnier


Damian Grammaticas
@dngbbc
An EU source, asked if UK PM is correct, tells BBC that EU “leaders have never negotiated directly with the UK PM on Brexit… UK is not even present when the EU27 leaders discuss Brexit.”

android
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by android » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:28 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I didn't mean to come across as arsey, but if you have facts, then post them.

If its another "I haven't seen it on the BBC website so it doesn't exist" then you (and I) are wasting our time.
I did post the facts. I can't force you to accept them. Would be grateful if you refrained from misrepresenting me as per your last line though. Maybe you work at the BBC!?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Vino blanco » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:30 pm

Scrambleclaret, I'm not surprised your German/Slovak partner likes the word 'poppycock'. I does in fact have a Germanic origin, coming from the Dutch pappe kak meaning 'soft dung' or even 'soft sh!t'.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:45 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
No one wants a no deal
This entire government is trying to fanangle a no deal Brexit, that's why the opposition parties have just had to vote down the opportunity to have a general election.

Mala591
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Mala591 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:51 pm

Will Burnley soon have a Brexit Party MP?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by CardyTheClaret » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:55 pm

Mala591 wrote:Will Burnley soon have a Brexit Party MP?
Odds on.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:56 pm

CardyTheClaret wrote:Odds on.
If it does, it does.

Course, if you'd like to fill me in with what he's going to do for Burnley with the rest of the Brexit Party policies then I'm all ears.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:02 pm

android wrote:I did post the facts. I can't force you to accept them. Would be grateful if you refrained from misrepresenting me as per your last line though. Maybe you work at the BBC!?
I'm 100% sure that my misrepresentation of you is so minor that only you have noticed.

Just to double check, are you annoyed at the BBC because there isn't a copy of Davidson letter on the main BBC website (with its one line about backing Johnsons attempts to get a deal)?

She's posted this on twitter btw yesterday

https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/sta ... 0258910208" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm 100% sure that laura kussenberg posted it on twitter when it came out

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/11 ... 3865243648" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So the BBC did report it.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:03 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
E494D7A0-A2CF-495C-B716-CC51B13043A3.png
No just a bunch of guys going fly fishing

NATO troops on exercise doesn't mean NATO is an army. It is an alliance of armies.

It's a shame there's nothing in the name that could give you a clue.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:06 pm

Fun fact

The North American Treaty Organisation - NATO

Organisation du traité de l'Atlantique Nord - OTAN

NATO - OTAN

If it be your will
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by If it be your will » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:10 pm

This is the first of a thousand similar interviews Labour will be faced with over the next 6 weeks:

https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1 ... 5368289283" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dear God. How has Labour been reduced to this? We were superb in 2017.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Vino blanco » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:10 pm

North Atlantic Treaty Organisation

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by claret2018 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:12 pm

The UK is an absolute laughing stock

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by scrambledclaret » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:15 pm

Vino blanco wrote:Scrambleclaret, I'm not surprised your German/Slovak partner likes the word 'poppycock'. I does in fact have a Germanic origin, coming from the Dutch pappe kak meaning 'soft dung' or even 'soft sh!t'.
She prefers "hogwash" actually, not sure that stems from "Schweinwasche" (or similar) but who knows? She goes full slavic when she's really annoyed. I imagine that's how she'll feel when I insist we got married before Halloween.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:17 pm

Is there public support for a new referendum?
Polling by YouGov suggests there is - just - public support for new vote on Brexit:

Social embed from twitter

Britain Elects
@britainelects
On "a public vote on Brexit":

Support: 46%
Oppose: 41%

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Vino blanco » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:22 pm

Scramble, hogwash is simply an old English way of saying pig swill.

tiger76
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:25 pm

If it be your will wrote:This is the first of a thousand similar interviews Labour will be faced with over the next 6 weeks:

https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1 ... 5368289283" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dear God. How has Labour been reduced to this? We were superb in 2017.
The danger for Labour is they'll be squeezed from all sides in an election,Lib Dems and the Greens will eat into their remain votes in London and the university seats,in Scotland their vulnerable to the SNP and the Lib Dems,and in heavy leave voting seats the BP could well emulate UKIP'S 2015 result and gain a lot of 2nd places.

The big winners in any upcoming election will be Jo Swinson and Nicola Sturgeon,whatever you think of their brexit policy they've been consistent in advocating a soft brexit or remaining,by contrast both major parties have changed like the wind.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by scrambledclaret » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:30 pm

Vino blanco wrote:Scramble, hogwash is simply an old English way of saying pig swill.
Then it still seems to apply in the original context then. I'll have to ask my German friends exactly how they'd refer to pig swill but I'm a bit too embarrassed to talk to them in the current climate

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tim_noone » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:31 pm

claret2018 wrote:The UK is an absolute laughing stock
Those in parliament are and the sheep that are following them... :roll:

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:33 pm

The big danger of another GE is that we get a hung parliament again.

There really isn't an easy way out of this I'm afraid.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tim_noone » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:35 pm

Vino blanco wrote:Scramble, hogwash is simply an old English way of saying pig swill.
Dress it up how you Like it's Bullsh!t......

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Elizabeth » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:44 pm

If the Brexit Party win in Burnley, where Labour have a 6000 majority, they will storm the North and Midlands.
I have no problem with this and hope Boris's strong stance makes it a Big win for the 17.4
This idea that the Tory rebels have been badly treated is pure tosh.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:46 pm

Spijed wrote:Is there public support for a new referendum?
Polling by YouGov suggests there is - just - public support for new vote on Brexit:

Social embed from twitter

Britain Elects
@britainelects
On "a public vote on Brexit":

Support: 46%
Oppose: 41%
Doesn't surprise me with the move towards a hard brexit,the extreme brexitters were warned to compromise,a few weeks ago i'd have been opposed to a 2nd ref,however with all the recent shenanigans emanating from Downing Street,and the clear intent to pursue a no deal,the Conservatives can't claim that we'll leave in an orderly manner,as their 2017 manifesto pledged.

How does no-deal influence voters?

Professor Sir John Curtice

Polling expert

"I think the truth is the argument about no-deal is just a re-hash of the debate about whether we want to remain or leave in the first place."

"With Brexit there is no point in talking about the electorate as a whole.

"We have two different electorates: we have a remain electorate and we have a leave electorate.

"Seventy five per cent of remain voters think that leaving without a deal is a bad idea and they oppose it. And around 75% of leave voters think that it is a good idea and they favour it.

"We're now seeing that divide remain/leave divide very, very clearly articulated in their preference for a general election."

So there is a leave/remain divide but it's not universal in either camp.
Last edited by tiger76 on Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Elizabeth
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Elizabeth » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:47 pm

Oh, I've just read Lancaster's hesitation about the General Election. The opposition 'benches' already running scared

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by android » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:48 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm 100% sure that my misrepresentation of you is so minor that only you have noticed.

Just to double check, are you annoyed at the BBC because there isn't a copy of Davidson letter on the main BBC website (with its one line about backing Johnsons attempts to get a deal)?

She's posted this on twitter btw yesterday

https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/sta ... 0258910208" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm 100% sure that laura kussenberg posted it on twitter when it came out

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/11 ... 3865243648" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So the BBC did report it.
Blimey this is painful. I'm not talking about Davidson's resignation letter and I have never mentioned it! I have not read it but presumably it says the usual guff about her career and how pleased she was to serve her country - great I hope it was a good read!

Try 12360 or 12400 again (or don't bother but stop telling me I'm talking opinions not facts)! I was referring to the MAIN BBC news website lead report on Davidson's resignation speech which conveniently omitted, what I have told you several times that it omitted, - namely that despite Johnson's apparent atrocious proroguing behaviour she made it crystal clear that she continued to believe that Johnson wants a deal and she urged MPs to back him to deliver Brexit.

Just for completeness it is quite possible that someone mentioned it on 5 Live at 11.46pm or whatever but that would not invalidate my point. The main story on the website and the Davidson profile on the same website that you kindly linked both omitted it and that matters.

Look, you made a mistake in thinking I was taking about something else so what, but you don't help yourself by doing the daft name calling routine (full Ringo - hee hee) and so on. I thought it was a straightforward point! Over and out.

If it be your will
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by If it be your will » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:52 pm

tiger76 wrote:The danger for Labour is they'll be squeezed from all sides in an election,Lib Dems and the Greens will eat into their remain votes in London and the university seats,in Scotland their vulnerable to the SNP and the Lib Dems,and in heavy leave voting seats the BP could well emulate UKIP'S 2015 result and gain a lot of 2nd places.

The big winners in any upcoming election will be Jo Swinson and Nicola Sturgeon,whatever you think of their brexit policy they've been consistent in advocating a soft brexit or remaining,by contrast both major parties have changed like the wind.
I think they'll get absolutely hammered. The decision to abandon the leave vote left Labour with this indefensible nonsense of a Brexit policy. I can see how it happened, mind. I'd been attending CLP meetings till recently, and there was a universal, unwavering belief among members that switching to a full remain position would lead to a surge in support. I'd did my best to explain how they couldn't be more wrong, but there you go.

Now I'm expected to knock on the same doors I did in 2017 and say "Actually, when I assured you that Labour absolutely would deliver Brexit, only our priority in the negotiations would be to deliver a Brexit that benefits the average person rather than the billionaires, I was lying to you. We had no intention of delivering Brexit at all. Sorry about that, but will you vote for us again anyway?"

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:54 pm

android wrote:Blimey this is painful. I'm not talking about Davidson's resignation letter and I have never mentioned it! I have not read it but presumably it says the usual guff about her career and how pleased she was to serve her country - great I hope it was a good read!

Try 12360 or 12400 again (or don't bother but stop telling me I'm talking opinions not facts)! I was referring to the MAIN BBC news website lead report on Davidson's resignation speech which conveniently omitted, what I have told you several times that it omitted, - namely that despite Johnson's apparent atrocious proroguing behaviour she made it crystal clear that she continued to believe that Johnson wants a deal and she urged MPs to back him to deliver Brexit.

Just for completeness it is quite possible that someone mentioned it on 5 Live at 11.46pm or whatever but that would not invalidate my point. The main story on the website and the Davidson profile on the same website that you kindly linked both omitted it and that matters.

Look, you made a mistake in thinking I was taking about something else so what, but you don't help yourself by doing the daft name calling routine (full Ringo - hee hee) and so on. I thought it was a straightforward point! Over and out.
Not following you at all.

Maybe I'm just a bit tired. I'll have another look in the morning with a clearer head.

And the daft name calling is a joke btw, don't take it seriously, you are far too sensible to go full Ringo.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:57 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:The big danger of another GE is that we get a hung parliament again.

There really isn't an easy way out of this I'm afraid.
But surely that means a general election might well be an easy way out. If the "big danger" is that things stay the same, then there is everything to gain and nothing to lose. You sound like a football manager who is losing 1-0 but won't bring a sub on in case they lose the match. Have a general election, it's a no-lose situation.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:59 pm

If it be your will wrote:This is the first of a thousand similar interviews Labour will be faced with over the next 6 weeks:

https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1 ... 5368289283" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dear God. How has Labour been reduced to this? We were superb in 2017.
Shame it got cut off so early. Because I would be interested to hear what he said next, after saying that he thought Labour would win the next election. Did he say, perhaps, "we think we will win the next election but we voted against having the election because ... " Answers on a postcard.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:00 pm

dsr wrote:But surely that means a general election might well be an easy way out. If the "big danger" is that things stay the same, then there is everything to gain and nothing to lose. You sound like a football manager who is losing 1-0 but won't bring a sub on in case they lose the match. Have a general election, it's a no-lose situation.
Oh of course, I'm 100% behind a GE (but only after a "No Deal" has been prevented)

100% behind anything that gets us out of this to be frank.

Just concerned that it results in another hung parliament, which might be a more interesting make up, but would have the same issues.
Last edited by Lancasterclaret on Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Elizabeth » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:00 pm

Did I read that someone posted that the SNP and Lib Dems have been advocating a soft brexit?
That beggers belief. What planet are some posters on?
Should drug testing be a condition before some are allowed to post?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:01 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Oh of course, I'm 100% behind a GE (but only after a "No Deal" has been prevented)

100% behind anything that gets us out of this to be frank.
Are you saying that "no deal" should be prevented even if the electorate votes for it, or just that "no deal" should be prevented on 31st October so that the electorate can make its decision?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:03 pm

tiger76 wrote:The danger for Labour is they'll be squeezed from all sides in an election,Lib Dems and the Greens will eat into their remain votes in London and the university seats,in Scotland their vulnerable to the SNP and the Lib Dems,and in heavy leave voting seats the BP could well emulate UKIP'S 2015 result and gain a lot of 2nd places.

The big winners in any upcoming election will be Jo Swinson and Nicola Sturgeon,whatever you think of their brexit policy they've been consistent in advocating a soft brexit or remaining,by contrast both major parties have changed like the wind.
Jo Swinson's stated policy is to Remain in the EU even if there is a second referendum that votes Leave again.

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