Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[martin_p]

Remember these...

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What on earth is a ‘tea kettle’ anyway?

[BleedingClaret]

The problem for Boris is that it's clear there is a big split within the Tory party.

Despite all the issues that Labour have you have got to hand it to them and their chief whip who has controlled everything perfectly.

Labour can only win an election after Brexit or after a 2nd Referendum
If the Brexit they vote for is Theresa Mays deal then brexit isn't done....
A 2nd referendum will only be participated in by remain.....
What you handing to them?
The fact that they are now on the opposite side of the issue than their core voters?

[Spijed]

If the remainers don't back him then they need to get out of the way. Simples.

At this rate the Labour party will be the biggest party if Boris keeps sacking everyone, or they resign.

[Cryssys]

The problem for Boris is that it's clear there is a big split within the Tory party.

Europe has been the Tory parties Achilles heel for over 30 years. Asking them to sort out Brexit was about stupid as giving a bunch of kids a box of matches and then shutting them in a fireworks factory with no lights.

[Spijed]

The fact that they are now on the opposite side of the issue than their core voters?

But if the election is after we have left then they will be on the same side - NHS, schools, foodbanks etc.

That's why the timing is crucial for them.

[martin_p]

London Labour not wanting the election they've been threatening and demanding is laughable.
Even though I understand their reasons, officially it was not being tricked into the GE date being changed til after the 31/10 and a No Deal, but if with Hilary Benns Bill No deal can't happen without Parliaments agreement it seems having got themselves on the remain side when likely the majority of leave voters were Labour voters in their Northern Heartlands means that they now actually don't want a vote pre brexit. That and the fact their leader has for years voted against everything EU is still quite a remarkable pickle.
Whose been playing party politics?
Also I saw on twitter these saviours of the people
LABOUR
- Created bedroom tax
- Lied about Iraq
- Sold a hospital to the Private Sector
- Brought in disability assessments
- Built no houses
- Started Tuition fees
- Closed 252 mines
- Didn't read Lisbon Treaty
- Created the zero hour contract
- Signed over 100 PFI contracts

Well the first one on the list isn’t true, but do you think Jeremy Corbyn is for or against the things on your list. Comparing the Labour Party of today with that under Blair is a bit like comparing the Burnley of today to that under Chris Waddle, it’s 20 years ago, things have changed!

[Rick_Muller]

Remember these...

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People who believed these really need to understand how they were manipulated, and watch The Great Hack on Netflix

https://www.netflix.com/title/80117542" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AndrewJB]

London Labour not wanting the election they've been threatening and demanding is laughable.
Even though I understand their reasons, officially it was not being tricked into the GE date being changed til after the 31/10 and a No Deal, but if with Hilary Benns Bill No deal can't happen without Parliaments agreement it seems having got themselves on the remain side when likely the majority of leave voters were Labour voters in their Northern Heartlands means that they now actually don't want a vote pre brexit. That and the fact their leader has for years voted against everything EU is still quite a remarkable pickle.
Whose been playing party politics?
Also I saw on twitter these saviours of the people
LABOUR
- Created bedroom tax
- Lied about Iraq
- Sold a hospital to the Private Sector
- Brought in disability assessments
- Built no houses
- Started Tuition fees
- Closed 252 mines
- Didn't read Lisbon Treaty
- Created the zero hour contract
- Signed over 100 PFI contracts

There's so much of this stuff on the internet. And a lot of it (such as the list above) is aimed at people who take scant interest in politics. I mean, the bedroom tax wasn't created by Labour, and of all the rest of those things, the Tories took them to the next level once they got into power (and were very enthusiastic about the Iraq War). A list of things the Labour Party is now against, and that the Tory Party has been doing for the last decade.

[BleedingClaret]

There's so much of this stuff on the internet. And a lot of it (such as the list above) is aimed at people who take scant interest in politics. I mean, the bedroom tax wasn't created by Labour, and of all the rest of those things, the Tories took them to the next level once they got into power (and were very enthusiastic about the Iraq War). A list of things the Labour Party is now against, and that the Tory Party has been doing for the last decade.

Admittedly I'm in that Category pre Brexit
I did nearly write that I hadn't check the facts.....

[Lancasterclaret]

Can't you see that Boris is implementing a strategic plan and it's all legal.

Yeah, the last three days have really shown his strategic genius.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Crikey, Jo Johnson has knifed his brother in a Millibandesque way.....

They are worried about the moderates being purged (despite Boris’s domestic agenda being more moderate than anything that bunch did).

If I were them I would now worry about the future of the party. The Tory party and Labour Party are good counterbalances. If the Tories fall......we’re buggered. Whether you vote Tory or not. I see them on life support.

At this rate Farage will have 52% of the vote to himself. A terrifying prospect, even for a Brexit voter.

[summitclaret]

He is playing labour. Can't you see that? The labour manifesto is not ready.

[summitclaret]

Crikey, Jo Johnson has knifed his brother in a Millibandesque way.....

They are worried about the moderates being purged (despite Boris’s domestic agenda being more moderate than anything that bunch did).

If I were them I would now worry about the future of the party. The Tory party and Labour Party are good counterbalances. If the Tories fall......we’re buggered. Whether you vote Tory or not. I see them on life support.

At this rate Farage will have 52% of the vote to himself. A terrifying prospect, even for a Brexit voter.

I agree it's terrifying and it would serve mps right if that happened.

[martin_p]

He is playing labour. Can't you see that? The labour manifesto is not ready.

But he can’t force them into an election and has given them a good reason to delay having one. Genius tactics!

[Lancasterclaret]

Crikey, Jo Johnson has knifed his brother in a Millibandesque way.....

They are worried about the moderates being purged (despite Boris’s domestic agenda being more moderate than anything that bunch did).

If I were them I would now worry about the future of the party. The Tory party and Labour Party are good counterbalances. If the Tories fall......we’re buggered. Whether you vote Tory or not. I see them on life support.

At this rate Farage will have 52% of the vote to himself. A terrifying prospect, even for a Brexit voter.

But would it stop you voting for him?

And you are being ridiculous, Farage is marmite.

He's loved by those that love him, and absolutely loathed by everybody else.

[summitclaret]

But he can’t force them into an election and has given them a good reason to delay having one. Genius tactics!

And the longer they delay the more chicken ge can call them.

[Lancasterclaret]

And the longer they delay the more chicken ge can call them.

Thats it?

Thats his strategy?

He's going to need a lot more than that

[martin_p]

And the longer they delay the more chicken ge can call them.

Wow, I bet Corbyn is shaking in his sandals.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Thats it?

Thats his strategy?

He's going to need a lot more than that

Well no, he called him a big girls blouse yesterday as well.

[martin_p]

Well no, he called him a big girls blouse yesterday as well.

And still Corbyn didn’t buckle and hand Johnson the election he wanted. He’s obviously made of stern stuff our Jezza!

[summitclaret]

Thats it?

Thats his strategy?

He's going to need a lot more than that

Well how about allowing a lame duck pm carry on because that in the national interest. Not.

[Bordeauxclaret]

And still Corbyn didn’t buckle and hand Johnson the election he wanted. He’s obviously made of stern stuff our Jezza!

He won’t be able to handle ‘wet lettuce’

A man can only take so much.

[martin_p]

Well how about allowing a lame duck pm carry on because that in the national interest. Not.

It’s in the national interest not to leave the eu with no deal on 31st October, but then you know that’s what the refusal to have an election is about already.

[Rileybobs]

Can someone remind me what the point of this Brexit thing is? What a hideous waste of time, effort and money.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

But he can’t force them into an election and has given them a good reason to delay having one. Genius tactics!

There is also the fact that if the bill becomes law and he doesn't get an election he could be forced to resign.

If I were Corbyn I'd go on holiday now until 29th October and ignore the noise.

[BleedingClaret]

Well the first one on the list isn’t true, but do you think Jeremy Corbyn is for or against the things on your list. Comparing the Labour Party of today with that under Blair is a bit like comparing the Burnley of today to that under Chris Waddle, it’s 20 years ago, things have changed!

Yes I didn't check the facts, I've admitted that, just accepted them at face value, just like every remainer knows exactly what every leave voter didn't vote for..... as long as they keep telling each other 'perceived known facts' over biased media, within Unrepresentative Parliaments & umpteen Social media networks all is good.

[dsr]

But if the election is after we have left then they will be on the same side - NHS, schools, foodbanks etc.

That's why the timing is crucial for them.

So why are they doing all they can to block us leaving? Whether the election is before or after 31st October, the Brexit issue won't have gone away unless we leave without a deal. So then we have a general election, where the Tories are campaigning on the basis of implementing Brexit, and the Liberals are campaigning on the basis of scrapping Brexit, and the Labour party are campaigning on the basis of doing nothing but dither about Brexit because they don't know what they want. That isn't going to win many votes.

And while everyone else is talking about the number one issue, Brexit, Labour will be talking about the NHS and foodbanks. And no-one will be listening.

[Darthlaw]

If I were Corbyn I'd go on holiday.

If I were a Labour MP, vaguely interested in winning a General Election, I'd hope it was a permanent.

[BleedingClaret]

But if the election is after we have left then they will be on the same side - NHS, schools, foodbanks etc.

That's why the timing is crucial for them.

So they defeat the biggest issue of their core voters, that just goes away and everyone just goes back to Loving the London Living Labour
I am but 1 but never again... could be a couple more out of 17.4 million just maybe.....

[dsr]

If I were a Labour MP, vaguely interested in winning a General Election, I'd hope it was a permanent.

It certainly doesn't help their cause that the notional leader isn't in charge.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

So why are they doing all they can to block us leaving?

They aren't, haven't you been paying attention? They are blocking no deal.

[dsr]

They aren't, haven't you been paying attention? They are blocking no deal.

They're also blocking May's deal, the only other option at present. If they are saying that they want us to leave but not on our terms and not on the EU's terms and not on the terms agreed with Theresa May, then it's hard to take seriously the idea that they want us to leave. Especially as they say they want to win a general election (but not yet) and then spend time negotiate another deal for leaving the EU and then have another referendum in which they will campaign against their own deal whatever it may be.

If that isn't blocking no deal ...

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

It certainly doesn't help their cause that the notional leader isn't in charge.

Again, haven't you been paying attention? Corbyn didn't lost control of his party and sack his majority this week.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

They're also blocking May's deal, the only other option at present. If they are saying that they want us to leave but not on our terms and not on the EU's terms and not on the terms agreed with Theresa May, then it's hard to take seriously the idea that they want us to leave. Especially as they say they want to win a general election (but not yet) and then spend time negotiate another deal for leaving the EU and then have another referendum in which they will campaign against their own deal whatever it may be.

If that isn't blocking no deal ...

Again, haven't you been paying attention? I just said they are blocking no deal.

[Lancasterclaret]

They're also blocking May's deal, the only other option at present. If they are saying that they want us to leave but not on our terms and not on the EU's terms and not on the terms agreed with Theresa May, then it's hard to take seriously the idea that they want us to leave. Especially as they say they want to win a general election (but not yet) and then spend time negotiate another deal for leaving the EU and then have another referendum in which they will campaign against their own deal whatever it may be.

If that isn't blocking no deal ...

The ERG blocked Mays Deal.

I do wish you stop doing this.

[dsr]

Again, haven't you been paying attention? Corbyn didn't lost control of his party and sack his majority this week.

If Corbyn on Tuesday says he wants a general election and other members of his party say they don't want an election, and then Corbyn on Wednesday says he doesn't want an election, isn't it fair to infer that he isn't in charge?

[martin_p]

So why are they doing all they can to block us leaving? Whether the election is before or after 31st October, the Brexit issue won't have gone away unless we leave without a deal. So then we have a general election, where the Tories are campaigning on the basis of implementing Brexit, and the Liberals are campaigning on the basis of scrapping Brexit, and the Labour party are campaigning on the basis of doing nothing but dither about Brexit because they don't know what they want. That isn't going to win many votes.

And while everyone else is talking about the number one issue, Brexit, Labour will be talking about the NHS and foodbanks. And no-one will be listening.

Labour certainly have a big decision to make at their conference. Do they continue to follow their current course which is to negotiate a Brexit on their terms (probably involving a customs union) and then have a referendum on the deal or do they go full remain. I suspect it’ll be the former meaning they’ll probably be squeezed from both sides.

But it isn’t that simple of course, it depends on how your constituency looks. If Labour sticks to its guns on Brexit I’d be tempted to vote Lib Dem as a remainer. But my constituency is a straight fight between Labour and Tory, Labour having taken the seat with a small majority in 2015 and increased it in 2017. So voting Lib Dem, who are a distant third where I live, might let the Tories in. So I’d pretty much have to vote Labour.

[dsr]

The ERG blocked Mays Deal.

I do wish you stop doing this.

432 MPs voted against May's deal in January. They weren't all in the ERG. Are you seriously trying to claim that the Labour party was in favour of May's deal and didn't vote against it in the Commons?

[martin_p]

If Corbyn on Tuesday says he wants a general election and other members of his party say they don't want an election, and then Corbyn on Wednesday says he doesn't want an election, isn't it fair to infer that he isn't in charge?

It’s fair to say he isn’t a dictator and will probably go with the consensus even if he doesn’t agree. Leadership isn’t about having your own way all the time.

[summitclaret]

Again, haven't you been paying attention? Corbyn didn't lost control of his party and sack his majority this week.

There won't be a Tory party if he doesn't deliver brexit soon. I'd say 31 jan now. The blame for that would clearly be the likes of Hammond for not backing a leader newly elected by his party.

[summitclaret]

The ERG blocked Mays Deal.

I do wish you stop doing this.

The ERG and 90 % of labour mps.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

432 MPs voted against May's deal in January. They weren't all in the ERG. Are you seriously trying to claim that the Labour party was in favour of May's deal and didn't vote against it in the Commons?

Again, haven't you been paying attention? Labour is the opposition, of course they voted against it.

[Billy Balfour]

He's loved by those that love him, and absolutely loathed by everybody else.

Aye, you only need to look at South Thanet in 2015.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

There won't be a Tory party if he doesn't deliver brexit soon. I'd say 31 jan now. The blame for that would clearly be the likes of Hammond for not backing a leader newly elected by his party.

Why would Hammond back a no deal Brexit? He isn't stupid.

[Burnley Ace]

If this was a plan - to purge the Tory Party of MPs who won't support a no deal - then it's left Johnson a hostage to fortune, unable to bring on an election to get the chance to win more "no deal" seats. He's now stuck in limbo, until the opposition give him merciful release. I can't see how this is a good plan.

It makes no difference whether those 22 were in or out. He could only call an early election with the agreement of Labour.

You can tolerate “Rebel MPs” when you have a large majority- like Blair did with Corbyn for example” you can’t do that when you are running a minority government and an MP votes against an important policy that won him the leadership of the party a month previously

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

If Corbyn on Tuesday says he wants a general election and other members of his party say they don't want an election, and then Corbyn on Wednesday says he doesn't want an election, isn't it fair to infer that he isn't in charge?

No, his party didn't rebel so you can't infer he isn't in charge. Also, I'm pretty sure Corbyn isn't trying to run his party like Johnson, a dictatorship in other words.

[Burnley Ace]

It’s fair to say he isn’t a dictator and will probably go with the consensus even if he doesn’t agree. Leadership isn’t about having your own way all the time.

It does help if you can set the “tone”. Is he a leader or a facilitator?

[Lancasterclaret]

432 MPs voted against May's deal in January. They weren't all in the ERG. Are you seriously trying to claim that the Labour party was in favour of May's deal and didn't vote against it in the Commons?

Nope, what I'm trying to do is remind everyone that the Conservative party has a right wing group called the ERG who voted against the deal three times.

Some of those members are now in government, so the chances are that they are still against that deal.

Johnson is not interested in a deal, because his power base is the ERG, who want the most destructive Brexit possible.

But it would have passed on its 3rd reading if the ERG hadn't voted it down.

All I'm saying is that people who are in the ERG will not change. This is their only chance to get the complete **** show brexit they want. They won't stop at anything to get it.

The only thing worse would be a vote for the racism and xenophobia of Farages Brexit Party.

[Devils_Advocate]

And the longer they delay the more chicken ge can call them.

Did you steal this from the letters section in Viz

[JohnMcGreal]

A question for those who are clued up on this sort of thing:

Now that the opposition coalition effectively have a majority in Parliament, is there anything that could stop them from tabling a bill to call a new EU referendum?

I understand that Standing Order 24 is a route they’ve taken twice to control the order paper, and for the second time this year they will have passed legislation forcing the government to request an extension from the EU. So what is to stop them from using the same method to legislate for a new referendum?

As things stand it makes complete sense for Labour and the SNP to reject a general election, while they are pretty much in control of things in opposition.