Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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AndrewJB
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:44 pm

If it be your will wrote:I agree. I could write an essay on the potential pitfalls of a second referendum, but one overwhelming problem is what what the options should be. For any referendum to have any meaning at all, it would have to include 'Remain' and 'No-deal'. That is surely a given considering, according to opinion polls, about 45% want the former and 35-40% want the latter. Anything not including both these options would be seen as a complete sham. So if you want more options, they have to be concrete - i.e. a fully negotiated deal, then use AV to determine the overall result. I understand all that.

But for Labour to put 'their deal' v 'remain' on a referendum, all the while admitting they never wanted 'their deal' anyway, would surely be the most ludicrous referendum in history.
A more sensibly negotiated exit would appeal to more people than a no deal exit, which is what is on offer with the Tories. Some within Labour might think remaining is still better than this, but I’m sure those who support Labour and want to leave would appreciate the option to leave in an orderly way.

You might be arguing from the standpoint that; how could a person who will never support this path negotiate a good deal? I think if we’re negotiating a Brexit in which we stay in the customs union, and keep free movement (while enforcing the rules governing this and our own work regulations), then Brexit becomes much easier with fewer areas of conflict with the EU. To me this is honest and reasonable, though as ever the right wing press will attack it in any way they can.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by CombatClaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:51 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Why should Leave voters have to have won TWO referenda to finally have their view implemented. Whereas Remsin voters would only have to win ONE?
It effectively means a leave vote is worth half that of a Remain.
Also, all those remoaners who want a 2nd People's Vote, and it's only Remoaners because remainers have actually accepted the 1st Peoples Vote, claim it would "finally bring this brexit crisis to an end."
Really? Why?
If Leave win again, why would we believe theyd accept the result of a 2nd referendum? They've NEVER accepted the result of the first! They've got previous on accepting results.
If Remain win then , as a brexiteer, I want the best of 3.....5.....7......
Hey! If you delete your WINDOWS file, your PC will turn into a Ferrari!
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Sometimes it's best to double check, especially when you've been told complete b0ll0cks.

AndrewJB
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:58 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:Reference BJ going to jail
I think MPs knowingly standing in elections on policies and promises that they knew at the time of the election they did not support and would not honour is more a cause for prosecution.
The law is supporting Parliament but Parliament is full of MPs who are there on fraudulence and who are failing to uphold the democratic vote of the people they are elected to represent.
I think you’re being very selective here. Law or democracy? Well so far the law has supported Johnson in his undemocratic shutting down of parliament. So far Johnson has indicated that he won’t accept parliament’s express order to request an extension to A50, and parliament is closer to being the centre of democracy than the PM.

If you feel disenchanted that we have not yet left the EU, then the blame lies with the government, not parliament (which the government has tried to exclude from the process at every turn).

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:59 pm

elwaclaret wrote:Disagree, in so much that there is very little chance whoever comes in. Both Labour and Liberal already offered a referendum for Scottish support... so they have also made it a straight choice for Unionist Scots... The Conservative and Unionist party... or give your support to the independence referendum.... This in itself will serve the Torres in ways the Labour haven’t even seemingly legislated for....

While everyone is pointing and laughing at the tories, they are missing just how much traditional Labour ground they are giving up. Labour are in REAL trouble. If you are remain, you vote Liberal, if your Scottish union, you must vote Tory.... that is a lot of labour votes gone.
All the unionist parties are in trouble,an imminent GE will see another SNP surge.

The Conservatives could be wiped out again ala 1997,and Labour will be reduced to a single seat North of the border.Even the pro-EU Lib Dems won't have much of an impact.Whether your a unionist or not isn't really the issue up here ATM,the Westminster circus has drained the Scottish electorate's trust with London,i was a diehard unionist in 2014 and even campaigned for the status quo,but how can you support this bunch of clowns that is presiding over a car-crash,with no apparent solution beyond blocking a no deal brexit.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/poli ... 19586216?1

A snapshot of current polling in Conservative held seats makes grim reading for Boris,but that is hardly a surprise,Ruth Davidson standing down is a huge blow to the Conservatives,she was popular even with the opposition parties and embodied true one-nation Toryism in a way this current excuse for a government can't comprehend.

Mind you when Tory members are happy to jettison the 300 year-old union in favour of brexit,especially a no deal brexit which Scotland overwhelmingly didn't vote for Nicola Sturgeon's election literature writes itself,in a country which is 63% remain.

Whether this will ultimately lead to Scottish independence is still open to debate,the most recent polls put YES 49 NO 51,but unless the Tories are somehow able to find a sensible compromise to this brexit mess,which with their present strategy is unlikely then the Scots will decide to take their chances of going it alone.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:35 pm

AndrewJB wrote:I think you’re being very selective here. Law or democracy? Well so far the law has supported Johnson in his undemocratic shutting down of parliament. So far Johnson has indicated that he won’t accept parliament’s express order to request an extension to A50, and parliament is closer to being the centre of democracy than the PM.

If you feel disenchanted that we have not yet left the EU, then the blame lies with the government, not parliament (which the government has tried to exclude from the process at every turn).
proroguing parliament isn’t illegal
Parliament is full of MPs elected on intentional deception
Parliament in this case should vote no confidence in the Government and subject itself to a General Election
A50 in law is leave after 2 years with a deal or No deal
I’m not disenchanted mate, it lies much deeper than that

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by If it be your will » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:42 pm

AndrewJB wrote:A more sensibly negotiated exit would appeal to more people than a no deal exit, which is what is on offer with the Tories. Some within Labour might think remaining is still better than this, but I’m sure those who support Labour and want to leave would appreciate the option to leave in an orderly way.

You might be arguing from the standpoint that; how could a person who will never support this path negotiate a good deal? I think if we’re negotiating a Brexit in which we stay in the customs union, and keep free movement (while enforcing the rules governing this and our own work regulations), then Brexit becomes much easier with fewer areas of conflict with the EU. To me this is honest and reasonable, though as ever the right wing press will attack it in any way they can.
I'm sort of arguing from the standpoint of how could a person who will never support this path negotiate a good deal? because I think it is true. But it's more complex than that. Let's imagine Labour's negotiating team are so skilled and robotic they can genuinely put their own beliefs aside. The EU still know Labour will campaign for remain against their own deal, and will use that to their advantage, and even without that, even if I was convinced of the brilliance of Labour's negotiating machine, you can be certain at least 99% of the electorate will still be asking how could a person who will never support this path negotiate a good deal?.

But even without drowning in game theory, this policy will somehow have to be sold on the doorstep as part of an election campaign in the first place. It will be an impossible sell. 2 senior Labour politicians in the space of 2 days have already discovered this their cost.

This policy will be dropped (surely!) because it's stupid. And the quicker they do it the better. There's no point wasting any more time attempting to defend the indefensible.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:44 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:proroguing parliament isn’t illegal
Parliament is full of MPs elected on intentional deception
Parliament in this case should vote no confidence in the Government and subject itself to a General Election
A50 in law is leave after 2 years with a deal or No deal
I’m not disenchanted mate, it lies much deeper than that
There is no difference in law between making a promise you don't intend to keep and one you are unable to keep.

The promise is broken either way.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by elwaclaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:02 pm

tiger76 wrote:All the unionist parties are in trouble,an imminent GE will see another SNP surge.

The Conservatives could be wiped out again ala 1997,and Labour will be reduced to a single seat North of the border.Even the pro-EU Lib Dems won't have much of an impact.Whether your a unionist or not isn't really the issue up here ATM,the Westminster circus has drained the Scottish electorate's trust with London,i was a diehard unionist in 2014 and even campaigned for the status quo,but how can you support this bunch of clowns that is presiding over a car-crash,with no apparent solution beyond blocking a no deal brexit.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/poli ... 19586216?1

A snapshot of current polling in Conservative held seats makes grim reading for Boris,but that is hardly a surprise,Ruth Davidson standing down is a huge blow to the Conservatives,she was popular even with the opposition parties and embodied true one-nation Toryism in a way this current excuse for a government can't comprehend.

Mind you when Tory members are happy to jettison the 300 year-old union in favour of brexit,especially a no deal brexit which Scotland overwhelmingly didn't vote for Nicola Sturgeon's election literature writes itself,in a country which is 63% remain.

Whether this will ultimately lead to Scottish independence is still open to debate,the most recent polls put YES 49 NO 51,but unless the Tories are somehow able to find a sensible compromise to this brexit mess,which with their present strategy is unlikely then the Scots will decide to take their chances of going it alone.

Yes but by offering an Independence vote... Labour are now nothing more than SNP light... Trying to appeal to the voters that they have already lost to the SNP.... for no designable benefit. Meanwhile there are thousands of labour voters who no longer have an option for pro Union and pro Eu or pro Union but out of EU.

No wonder the SNP are looking so pleased with themselves... Scotland has been abandoned to SNP or Tories with SDP for non nationalist remainders. I may be wrong but I expect a mauling for Labour in the North.... and just look where Boris’s travels took him yesterday.... so the tories have seen it.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:15 pm

Spijed wrote:There is no difference in law between making a promise you don't intend to keep and one you are unable to keep.

The promise is broken either way.
I think you were replying to my 12950 not 12955
I was replying to the post I’ve quoted in 12955 that was suggesting illegality in Johnson’s actions and saying if that was so the actions of others are more so.
I know MPs once elected are given the authority to believe they know best how to best serve their electorate.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:17 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:I think you were replying to my 12950 not 12955
I was replying to the post I’ve quoted in 12955 that was suggesting illegality in Johnson’s actions and saying if that was so the actions of others are more so.
I know MPs once elected are given the authority to believe they know best how to best serve their electorate.
Run that one past me again?

Which laws have MPs broken so far?

Just checking, you are perfectly happy for a PM to ignore the law to get Brexit?

Only one question left really

Is your favourite colour black or brown?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:22 pm

When to a pro-EU/anti-prologing/anti-Johnson protest today.

Quite interesting, but it did reinforce my belief that we need to get a deal to have any chance of reconciliation.

Sadly Johnson et al don't look like they are remotely interested so this will just get worse.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:28 pm

Jail Boris for the crime of trying to uphold the biggest democratic vote in our history thus making him a Political Prisoner... the victim of a rogue parliament with a speaker that’s not impartial a House of Lords that is undemocratic, like the EU, supported by a compliant judiciary, and all he has is 17.4 million strangely peaceful people on his side.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:39 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:Reference BJ going to jail
I think MPs knowingly standing in elections on policies and promises that they knew at the time of the election they did not support and would not honour is more a cause for prosecution.
The law is supporting Parliament but Parliament is full of MPs who are there on fraudulence and who are failing to uphold the democratic vote of the people they are elected to represent.
Sounds like you're upset at the ERG for standing in 2017 on a manifesto to exit the EU with a comprehensive free trade and customs agreement when they had no intention of supporting this policy and have spent the last 2 years trying to force an undemocratic No Deal without even letting it go to a final vote in the Houses of Parliament (also part of the manifesto promise they stood on).

I can understand your upset but I dont think there is any cause for prosecution and thats coming from someone with nothing but absolute contempt for them

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:58 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Sounds like you're upset at the ERG for standing in 2017 on a manifesto to exit the EU with a comprehensive free trade and customs agreement when they had no intention of supporting this policy and have spent the last 2 years trying to force an undemocratic No Deal without even letting it go to a final vote in the Houses of Parliament (also part of the manifesto promise they stood on).

I can understand your upset but I dont think there is any cause for prosecution and thats coming from someone with nothing but absolute contempt for them
I don’t think there are any legal grounds for prosecution in reality Just responding to people suggesting prorogation is illegal and BJ should be jailed.
It isn’t and he shouldn’t but imo morally parliaments behaviour is worse than BJs that’s all.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:12 pm

SNP pushing for the UK to stay unified with Europe
SNP pushing for Scottish independence from the UK
If Brexit happens and Scotland votes for independence and rejoins the EU then there’s a hard border between England and Scotland.
In this instance, IMO, the SNP won’t win an independence vote and I think they know it.
They know they need an open border with England and benefit from the EU from what the UK but in reality England pay.
Cake and eat it job
I’d prefer the UK to be as 1 but I’d be interested what the SNPs behaviour and namely Sturgeon & Blackfords rhetoric would mean if there was an English Independence vote

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by elwaclaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:30 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:SNP pushing for the UK to stay unified with Europe
SNP pushing for Scottish independence from the UK
If Brexit happens and Scotland votes for independence and rejoins the EU then there’s a hard border between England and Scotland.
In this instance, IMO, the SNP won’t win an independence vote and I think they know it.
They know they need an open border with England and benefit from the EU from what the UK but in reality England pay.
Cake and eat it job
I’d prefer the UK to be as 1 but I’d be interested what the SNPs behaviour and namely Sturgeon & Blackfords rhetoric would mean if there was an English Independence vote
Never mind a hard border if Scotland get independence, they are an independent nation applying to join Europe... there is no guarantee they will be accepted ahead of anyone else... and they would have to go in as a new member, not with the UK deal.

Edit - Added to that how many EU members have sections of their populations pushing for independence themselves? Do the Scottish think they are going to welcome a Scotland breakaway.... and setting precedent for break away nations?

They are avoiding others pointing this out with Brexit and balancing it with effectively wiping out Labour in Scotland.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:52 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:SNP pushing for the UK to stay unified with Europe
SNP pushing for Scottish independence from the UK
If Brexit happens and Scotland votes for independence and rejoins the EU then there’s a hard border between England and Scotland.
In this instance, IMO, the SNP won’t win an independence vote and I think they know it.
They know they need an open border with England and benefit from the EU from what the UK but in reality England pay.
Cake and eat it job
I’d prefer the UK to be as 1 but I’d be interested what the SNPs behaviour and namely Sturgeon & Blackfords rhetoric would mean if there was an English Independence vote
Dont think the border is a real issue in scottish independance just like swiss and norway borders arent a problem

Ireland is different kettle of fish cos of the troubles and the absolute importance of honoring the good friday agreement

Other things might come into play but the border impacts will be well down the list

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Paul Waine » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:26 pm

Spijed wrote:There is no difference in law between making a promise you don't intend to keep and one you are unable to keep.

The promise is broken either way.
Hi Spijed, (maybe someone has already made this point... I've not read every thread), if you take a look at the law, there is a difference, I believe it's called frustration. If you make a promise, i.e a contract you are obliged to fulfil the terms of that contract - unless certain things change and the contract is "frustrated." If the latter, neither party owes damages to their counterparty. However, if you don't perform - and there has been no frustration - then you are liable to damages to your counterparty.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:49 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:Jail Boris for the crime of trying to uphold the biggest democratic vote in our history thus making him a Political Prisoner... the victim of a rogue parliament with a speaker that’s not impartial a House of Lords that is undemocratic, like the EU, supported by a compliant judiciary, and all he has is 17.4 million strangely peaceful people on his side.
They wouldn't jail him for that, they'd be jailing him for breaking the law.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:52 pm

Was that sending Chicken out to people in the Commons real or a fake twitter story?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:56 pm

Spijed wrote:There is no difference in law between making a promise you don't intend to keep and one you are unable to keep.

The promise is broken either way.
Yes there is. for example, if you swear in court to tell the truth and the whole truth and you do not know the whole truth, then you haven't committed perjury. If you do know the whole truth and choose not to tell it, then you have committed perjury.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by CombatClaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:29 pm

Amber Rudd resigns from cabinet and will run as independent.

'No evidence' Boris is seeking a deal with Europe.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:42 pm

CombatClaret wrote:Amber Rudd resigns from cabinet and will run as independent.

'No evidence' Boris is seeking a deal with Europe.
Boris's negotiations with Europe.



















Yep a big fat zero.

Amber Rudd's brave standing as an independent assuming she sticks to Hastings and Rye,unless she has an agreement Labour won't contest her seat,but i can't see Labour consenting to that,it's a wafer-thin marginal and if Corbyn wants to win a majority that's exactly the seats he'll need to gain.

So 2 cabinet resignations already under a Boris premiership,is he trying to challenge Theresa May's record.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:55 pm

Looks like many more are about to jump from the BoJo ship:

https://twitter.com/stokel/status/1170436321434832896" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:57 pm

I don’t get why even his own MP’s don’t trust him not like he’s got any history of not telling the truth.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:10 pm

The collapse of the Conservative party after they were orgasming all over themselves when some Labour MPs left, and after calling Corbyn a tyrant for threatening deselection for violating the whip is just beautiful to watch.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:14 pm

If Brexit is delayed:

https://twitter.com/britainelects/statu ... 1370610688" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:20 pm

Spijed wrote:If Brexit is delayed:

https://twitter.com/britainelects/statu ... 1370610688" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
How did the poll question distinguish between those who answered based on Boris delaying it, and those who answered based on Parliament delaying it? And did it come up with two separate sets of answers, or just mix up the whole lot together?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by elwaclaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:21 pm

Spijed wrote:If Brexit is delayed:

https://twitter.com/britainelects/statu ... 1370610688" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A review created by a politics student, using unspecified polls....

I’ll wait, thanks

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:37 pm

This is the reality for Boris if he goes for a pact with the Brexit Group Ltd

It becomes even more obvious he doesn't want a deal, and will lose any centre and centre right support he has.

For starters, he'd lose all support on here because those who back Brexit persist in telling us that they want a deal........
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by elwaclaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:45 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:This is the reality for Boris if he goes for a pact with the Brexit Group Ltd

It becomes even more obvious he doesn't want a deal, and will lose any centre and centre right support he has.

For starters, he'd lose all support on here because those who back Brexit persist in telling us that they want a deal........
“IF”

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:49 pm

elwaclaret wrote:“IF”
Please expand cos pretty much all your posts on Brexit are based on what ifs and personal suppositions

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:52 pm

elwaclaret wrote:“IF”
Its a pretty small "if" at the moment

Unless he's as drunk on Brexit as the Brexit (Farage Ltd) Ltd lot are, then they won't ally with him.

So he's got to weigh up the pros and cons.

As we've all said before, Farage is marmite, and those that can't stand him, really can't stand him.

And the Brexit Party might well win in Tory seats in the East of the country

Risks for both sides, but it all goes down to how much either wants Brexit over party unity (Johnston) or actual seats (Farage)
Last edited by Lancasterclaret on Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spiral » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:54 pm

dsr wrote:How did the poll question distinguish between those who answered based on Boris delaying it, and those who answered based on Parliament delaying it? And did it come up with two separate sets of answers, or just mix up the whole lot together?
You've got a laughably astigmatic understanding of your average low-information brexit voter if you believe such a distinction will withold them from voting for the Brexit party in a November election. Johnson has invested so much energy into the October 31st message that any delay will constitute a betrayal of that promise without regard for asterisk or annotation. Gammon doesn't think rationally. Gammon is a base, impulsive, reflexive creature.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:56 pm

The rest of Europe must be currently looking at our country in a state of utter bemusement!
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:59 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:The rest of Europe must be currently looking at our country in a state of utter bemusement!
And worry to be fair.

We are showing no signs of sorting this out without completely alienating half the population.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by elwaclaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:59 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Please expand cos pretty much all your posts on Brexit are based on what ifs and personal suppositions
Fair comment. And as you know I’m not THAT Brexit.... IF there was to become a pact, prior to a deal being presented, then I for one would have to question what all the weeks of bullsh!t have been about, which all in all just ends the whole sorry fiasco started by far bigger clown; if parliament has rejected a deal to serve their agenda’s being they remain or to just score points.... then good for him.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:07 pm

Angela Smith former Labour MP now defected to the Lib Dems.

https://www.libdemvoice.org/breakingang ... 61966.html

Unless she does the chicken run as Chuka Umunna has done,she'll be seeking re-election in a constituency which backed leaving the EU by around 60%.

Rumours that Heidi Allen will also join the Lib Dems soon,she have a much easier campaign as her seat voted 60% remain.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:07 pm

elwaclaret wrote:Fair comment. And as you know I’m not THAT Brexit.... IF there was to become a pact, prior to a deal being presented, then I for one would have to question what all the weeks of bullsh!t have been about, which all in all just ends the whole sorry fiasco started by far bigger clown; if parliament has rejected a deal to serve their agenda’s being they remain or to just score points.... then good for him.
What does your last line even mean?

You know as well as I do that parliament has acted to stop a "No Deal".

You are so Brexity yet you think you aren't. Its well weird.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:11 pm

70298347_2533222483411826_6088527342248919040_n.jpg
70298347_2533222483411826_6088527342248919040_n.jpg (37.15 KiB) Viewed 2141 times
Last edited by Bin Ont Turf on Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:12 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:[img]70298347_2533222483411826_6088527342248919040_n.jpg[/img]
It was better when it didn't work!
Last edited by Lancasterclaret on Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:15 pm

https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/statu ... 5701596162" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Michael Savage
@michaelsavage
Told that Dominic Cummings told a meeting on Friday that the people who are cross about his tactics “will melt” when they learn of what he has planned in coming weeks.

We’re in the foothills of the chaos.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:17 pm

Wonder what his tactics are?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Burnley Ace » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:21 pm

dsr wrote:Yes there is. for example, if you swear in court to tell the truth and the whole truth and you do not know the whole truth, then you haven't committed perjury. If you do know the whole truth and choose not to tell it, then you have committed perjury.
That’s not the definition of perjury

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/1-2/6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:22 pm

Spijed wrote:https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/statu ... 5701596162

Michael Savage
@michaelsavage
Told that Dominic Cummings told a meeting on Friday that the people who are cross about his tactics “will melt” when they learn of what he has planned in coming weeks.

We’re in the foothills of the chaos.
It's :x that Cummings an unelected official/advisor whatever you want to label him has so much power,you'd think sooner or later he'd overstep his authority,but alas there doesn't appear to be any checks and balances applied to him,if someone in the Tory top brass doesn't rein him in he'll be the death of one nation conservatism.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:26 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:That’s not the definition of perjury

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/1-2/6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Doesn't matter to Dsr.

He's never lied on here either according to his interesting interpretation of what it is, even though he has repeatedly.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:27 pm

tiger76 wrote:It's :x that Cummings an unelected official/advisor whatever you want to label him has so much power,you'd think sooner or later he'd overstep his authority,but alas there doesn't appear to be any checks and balances applied to him,if someone in the Tory top brass doesn't rein him in he'll be the death of one nation conservatism.
Its dead Tiger, its completely incompatible with a "No Deal" Brexit.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:50 pm

If it be your will wrote:I'm sort of arguing from the standpoint of how could a person who will never support this path negotiate a good deal? because I think it is true. But it's more complex than that. Let's imagine Labour's negotiating team are so skilled and robotic they can genuinely put their own beliefs aside. The EU still know Labour will campaign for remain against their own deal, and will use that to their advantage, and even without that, even if I was convinced of the brilliance of Labour's negotiating machine, you can be certain at least 99% of the electorate will still be asking how could a person who will never support this path negotiate a good deal?.

But even without drowning in game theory, this policy will somehow have to be sold on the doorstep as part of an election campaign in the first place. It will be an impossible sell. 2 senior Labour politicians in the space of 2 days have already discovered this their cost.

This policy will be dropped (surely!) because it's stupid. And the quicker they do it the better. There's no point wasting any more time attempting to defend the indefensible.
I think what a Labour government could do with the EU is put together a kind of “exit menu” - I believe the SU did this already with us in terms of negotiating the ongoing relationship. So options of varying degrees of involvement with the EU get different levels of payment and responsibility toward the EU from us. Then we can put to bed this ridiculous notion that we can leave while getting all the same benefits of remaining. Of course remaining will be the best deal financially, however there remains the freedom issue, which for many people is paramount, and so we'll be able to do a realistic cost / benefit analysis of what we really want.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:52 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its dead Tiger, its completely incompatible with a "No Deal" Brexit.
The scary aspect is the Conservatives are ahead,and quite a long way ahead in several opinion polls published today,i can only assume that people wrongly think if the UK leaves the EU on October 31,that brexit is done and dusted,nothing could be further from the truth,IF the UK does leave without a deal however unlikely this still is,then all the issues will still remain if the UK wants to finally get a FTA with the EU,which i'd like to hope is still the case,though with this government heaven knows.

If Boris can't even tell his cabinet what negotiations are taking place then clearly he's fall of hot air,but most people know that anyway.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:57 pm

Just watching ‘In the Loop’ on BBC2. Doesn’t seem as funny as the first time I watched it, all seems a bit too real now. I long for the days when Malcolm Tucker seemed over the top.

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