Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
dsr
Posts: 15132
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4548 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:12 am

Power without responsibility - that's what Parliament has got, and it is choosing to exercise it without fear of the consequences.

If it be your will
Posts: 2103
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:12 am
Been Liked: 500 times
Has Liked: 509 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by If it be your will » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:15 am

Spijed wrote:How does he get Nigel Farage on-side in that situation, or even members of his own party, such as the likes of Redwood JRM, Bill Cash etc.?
I agree. That's what's caused all this. Boris knows full well that unless they pursue a hard Brexit, the threat from Farage means the Tories could be reduced to a husk at the next election. They have no choice.

AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:17 am

Spijed wrote:How does he get Nigel Farage on-side in that situation, or even members of his own party, such as the likes of Redwood JRM, Bill Cash etc.?
The post is a triumph of hope over reality. Start off with the things you want to happen, and then draw lines from present reality back to this. The cake is even topped off with a fantasy cherry - a Johnson majority.

aggi
Posts: 8762
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:19 am

dsr wrote:Power without responsibility - that's what Parliament has got, and it is choosing to exercise it without fear of the consequences.
Agreed. This humble address and having to "show their workings" may go some way to curbing this but it seems more likely they'll seek to avoid it.

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:26 am

dsr wrote:Power without responsibility - that's what Parliament has got, and it is choosing to exercise it without fear of the consequences.
Everyone irony filter just blew up.

Everyones.

If it be your will
Posts: 2103
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:12 am
Been Liked: 500 times
Has Liked: 509 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by If it be your will » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:38 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Everyone irony filter just blew up.

Everyones.
My sneering filter is looking a bit clogged up and in need of a clean, too.

(edit - Ha. I've just added to it, haven't I?? Sorry everyone. I'll go now.)

martin_p
Posts: 10367
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 pm
Been Liked: 3764 times
Has Liked: 696 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:41 am

If it be your will wrote:Hm. I don't really want to be seen as the sanctimonious one demanding calm and reasonableness, and don't get me wrong - watching the implosion of Tory party has its merit. But I'm not sure about any of this anymore - from either side. Demanding all private communications of MPs (have I understood this right?) seems invasive to me. Must it come to this?

(And the obvious response to your second sentence - should somebody choose to make it - would be a reminder that the undemocratic executive is actually the one pleading for an election.)
It’s demanding the communications of a small number of officials (not just MPs) relating to the prorogation of parliament. Every written communication on government business, whether is be a 100 page document or a short text, is a matter of public record and should be open to scrutiny. Governments need to be transparent enough to keep them honest.

CrosspoolClarets
Posts: 5227
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:00 pm
Been Liked: 1623 times
Has Liked: 397 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:42 am

Good morning all.

One thing that Remain voters have proven beyond all doubt is that they don’t have a grasp of the mind of a Brexit voter.

This causes MPs a problem because they have to gauge what is acceptable to the country, and they have failed that consistently, but this time Brexit voters are in charge, so their judgement will be different.

I safely think that a Northern Ireland only backstop (potentially for only some sectors) wouldn’t bother 95% of Brexiteers, so Johnson only has minor exposure to Farage when the election comes. As a balance, keeping Tory Remainers on board whilst preserving Tory Brexiteers, it may be the best compromise because it would also take away the cliff edge and lead us into a transition period.

Compromise - that’s what most on here have been calling for?

However, election before we leave, and with NI rather than no deal on the table but not yet delivered - that would strike me as too risky, Farage would get a lot of the “just in case they stitch us up” vote and the Remain MPs would be fighting over who gets to lead a government of national unity. That’s why Boris has been promoting no deal, even whilst he secretly wants one.

AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:43 am

If it be your will wrote:Hm. I don't really want to be seen as the sanctimonious one demanding calm and reasonableness, and don't get me wrong - watching the implosion of Tory party has its merit. But I'm not sure about any of this anymore - from either side. Demanding all private communications of MPs (have I understood this right?) seems invasive to me. Must it come to this?

(And the obvious response to your second sentence - should somebody choose to make it - would be a reminder that the undemocratic executive is actually the one pleading for an election.)
Johnson is only pleading for an election because he’s stuck, and he’s stuck because he’s thrown away his control of Parliament. If things were the other way around, the papers would be dancing with glee at an inept Labour government, and the masterful opposition; rather than stamping their feet in impotent rage.

As for communications, it has been said that Johnson and Cummings and others have been using burner phones, and encrypted messaging to avoid scrutiny. If that’s the case they’ve given up their rights to privacy.

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:46 am

If it be your will wrote:My sneering filter is looking a bit clogged up and in need of a clean, too.

(edit - Ha. I've just added to it, haven't I?? Sorry everyone. I'll go now.)
I don't want to worry you, but Irony filters will be one of the first things that are in very short supply in the event of a "No Deal" Brexit.

martin_p
Posts: 10367
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 pm
Been Liked: 3764 times
Has Liked: 696 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:47 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Good morning all.

One thing that Remain voters have proven beyond all doubt is that they don’t have a grasp of the mind of a Brexit voter.

This causes MPs a problem because they have to gauge what is acceptable to the country, and they have failed that consistently, but this time Brexit voters are in charge, so their judgement will be different.

I safely think that a Northern Ireland only backstop (potentially for only some sectors) wouldn’t bother 95% of Brexiteers, so Johnson only has minor exposure to Farage when the election comes. As a balance, keeping Tory Remainers on board whilst preserving Tory Brexiteers, it may be the best compromise because it would also take away the cliff edge and lead us into a transition period.

Compromise - that’s what most on here have been calling for?

However, election before we leave, and with NI rather than no deal on the table but not yet delivered - that would strike me as too risky, Farage would get a lot of the “just in case they stitch us up” vote and the Remain MPs would be fighting over who gets to lead a government of national unity. That’s why Boris has been promoting no deal, even whilst he secretly wants one.
So that’s why he’s been saying he definitely wants a deal, it’d be a failure of statecraft not to get one, the chances of not getting a deal are a million to one, because he wants to keep the fact he wants a deal a secret!

Johnson wants to stay in power and will do what he thinks is best to achieve that.

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:48 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Good morning all.

One thing that Remain voters have proven beyond all doubt is that they don’t have a grasp of the mind of a Brexit voter.

This causes MPs a problem because they have to gauge what is acceptable to the country, and they have failed that consistently, but this time Brexit voters are in charge, so their judgement will be different.

I safely think that a Northern Ireland only backstop (potentially for only some sectors) wouldn’t bother 95% of Brexiteers, so Johnson only has minor exposure to Farage when the election comes. As a balance, keeping Tory Remainers on board whilst preserving Tory Brexiteers, it may be the best compromise because it would also take away the cliff edge and lead us into a transition period.

Compromise - that’s what most on here have been calling for?

However, election before we leave, and with NI rather than no deal on the table but not yet delivered - that would strike me as too risky, Farage would get a lot of the “just in case they stitch us up” vote and the Remain MPs would be fighting over who gets to lead a government of national unity. That’s why Boris has been promoting no deal, even whilst he secretly wants one.
I don't see how Johnson can win if the GE is in Nov, after he's been forced to ask for an extension and he's thrown NI to try to win votes in the midlands and the north to counterbalance the losses he will take in Scotland and the south.

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:39 am

Jesus, super depressing on how hard and how long it would take to organise a proper, legal, watertight and honest referendum

https://twitter.com/fascinatorfun/statu ... 7799430144" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More and more evidence that a deal is needed.

AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:39 am

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bori ... -0lwjbnqsn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Johnson isn’t interested in ordinary British people. What we all lose in a no deal exit is a sacrifice worth making for him.

aggi
Posts: 8762
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:55 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I don't see how Johnson can win if the GE is in Nov, after he's been forced to ask for an extension and he's thrown NI to try to win votes in the midlands and the north to counterbalance the losses he will take in Scotland and the south.
I don't think many voters outside of NI care about this (and in NI most of the votes will go where they normally go). It's a politcially expedient compromise for Johnson. He can say (to most voters) that he's rescued them from the possibility of being tied to the EU in perpetuity, he's removed the backstop (for most voters) as promised and taken us out of the EU. If it's announced at a similar time to the extension then the extension becomes a period to dot the Is and cross the Ts rather than a proper extension.

As Crosspool said, most Brexit voters don't really care what the Brexit deal is. If the media tell them it's leaving then that's fine and surely this will be spun much better than May's deal.

tiger76
Posts: 25697
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Been Liked: 4644 times
Has Liked: 9849 times
Location: Glasgow

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:11 am

If it be your will wrote:Hm. I don't really want to be seen as the sanctimonious one demanding calm and reasonableness, and don't get me wrong - watching the implosion of Tory party has its merit. But I'm not sure about any of this anymore - from either side. Demanding all private communications of MPs (have I understood this right?) seems invasive to me. Must it come to this?

(And the obvious response to your second sentence - should somebody choose to make it - would be a reminder that the undemocratic executive is actually the one pleading for an election.)
I'm not certain how much information is required under the Grieve legislation,but many commentators have highlighted issues regarding data protection laws,i sense this will end up in the courts.

The Operation Yellowhammer details should be released however.
This user liked this post: If it be your will

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:44 am

aggi wrote:I don't think many voters outside of NI care about this (and in NI most of the votes will go where they normally go). It's a politcially expedient compromise for Johnson. He can say (to most voters) that he's rescued them from the possibility of being tied to the EU in perpetuity, he's removed the backstop (for most voters) as promised and taken us out of the EU. If it's announced at a similar time to the extension then the extension becomes a period to dot the Is and cross the Ts rather than a proper extension.

As Crosspool said, most Brexit voters don't really care what the Brexit deal is. If the media tell them it's leaving then that's fine and surely this will be spun much better than May's deal.
I'm hoping that the NI situation is solved as its the biggest impediment to a deal.

I'm not sure that throwing the DUP under a bus wouldn't harm him and it would remove potential allies if its another hung parliament.

He'll have to seriously think about what to do, but he's got five weeks to do it.

bfcmik
Posts: 3594
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:03 pm
Been Liked: 891 times
Has Liked: 1099 times
Location: Solihull Geriatric Centre

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by bfcmik » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:48 am

I saw today that the prorogation of Parliament has caused the DEFRA bills designed to enshrine in UK law the support and protections currently given by EU legislation to agriculture, fisheries and the countryside has failed as it had not completed it's passage through the House. There will be no government financial support for these industries to replace those received under the CAP which will make farming and fishing totally unviable and see many farmers, large and small, facing bankruptcy.

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:49 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm hoping that the NI situation is solved as its the biggest impediment to a deal.

I'm not sure that throwing the DUP under a bus wouldn't harm him and it would remove potential allies if its another hung parliament.

He'll have to seriously think about what to do, but he's got five weeks to do it.
And one big issue that will need to be addressed is what happens if Loyalist Paramilitaries threaten to kick-off if they feel the UK government is deliberately abandoning them?

A bomb scare in London isn't going to go down too well.

aggi
Posts: 8762
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:59 am

If it be your will wrote:Hm. I don't really want to be seen as the sanctimonious one demanding calm and reasonableness, and don't get me wrong - watching the implosion of Tory party has its merit. But I'm not sure about any of this anymore - from either side. Demanding all private communications of MPs (have I understood this right?) seems invasive to me. Must it come to this?

(And the obvious response to your second sentence - should somebody choose to make it - would be a reminder that the undemocratic executive is actually the one pleading for an election.)
It's been an issue for many years and I'd say the fact that we have two major parties who are either in power or in opposition is a large part of the reason (look at the US as an example). Those countries who have smaller parties who commonly have to work in coalitions don't have the same element of opposition as they know they may need to co-operate in the future.

I believe that Brexit has exacerbated this. From the early ERG-driven red lines which left virtually half the country feeling ignored through the refusal to engage with other parties and instead make Brexit a party-political issue the polarisation is just getting worse.
This user liked this post: Lancasterclaret

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:39 pm

Greenmile wrote:I doubt it

I couldn't care less!

:D

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:47 pm

Teresa May's rewards for failure honours -

Nick Timothy and Fiona hill , the "masterminds" behind the Teresa May's calamitous 2017 campaign, that she had to sack! The ones who coined the phrase, "strong and stable!"

But the best was bungling remoaner Olly Robin's award! And where is Olly off to ?

A well paid job with Goldman Sachs. The same Goldman Sachs that financed the 2016 Remain campaign!!

And remoaners tried to convince themselves and brexiterrs that Robins was negotiating from a position of actually wanting to leave the EU!

:lol:



Time to drain the swamp!

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:49 pm

Ian Blackford SNP, during last night's disgraceful scenes on the commons-

"We will stand for this dictatorship no more!"


15 minutes later stormed off to block a general election!!!!



:lol: :lol: :lol:

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:55 pm

At the end last nights, two fingers to the People, John Bercow love-in. The stomach churning images of MPs queuing up to shake hands with the convention scrapping, procedural rulebook burning Bercow will have been seen by Democrats all over the country with disbelief.


John McDonald got , not only a handshake, but a special hug from Bercow. The last time John McDonald got a hug like that.


















It was from somebody on hunger strike!

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 5201 times
Has Liked: 920 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:01 pm

Dry your eyes mate and start trying to come to terms with the end of democracy. Who needs it anyhow when we've got that good old British spirit.

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:24 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Dry your eyes mate and start trying to come to terms with the end of democracy. Who needs it anyhow when we've got that good old British spirit.

Tears of laughter!

Especially when I think of labour MPs trying to sell their brexit plan to voters.!

So we'll send our crack team of negotiators to strike a brilliant deal with the EU.


We'll then announce a 2nd referendum.


At that 2nd referendum, we'll campaign AGAINST our own brilliant new deal!!!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I look forward to Diane Abbott attempting to explain that on the Marr Show !

"Andwew, Andwew look Andwew and for twelthteen time Andwew!"



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Its going to brighten up a wet Sunday morning in November no end!!!


:lol: :lol:

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 5201 times
Has Liked: 920 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:28 pm

Thats the spirit and just think we may even be lucky enough to have the supremely intelligent and honourable Mr Bercow on the European Commission fighting our corner for the next set of negotiations

AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:35 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:At the end last nights, two fingers to the People, John Bercow love-in. The stomach churning images of MPs queuing up to shake hands with the convention scrapping, procedural rulebook burning Bercow will have been seen by Democrats all over the country with disbelief.


John McDonald got , not only a handshake, but a special hug from Bercow. The last time John McDonald got a hug like that.
Six defeats for Johnson inside one week. I wonder how his negotiations are going with the EU?

The right-wing hate rags were in a fury this morning. They certainly abhor democracy when it doesn't go their way. I suppose that is the way of the billionaire. I wonder who the next speaker will be? I suppose it's a LibDem's turn this time?

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:36 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Thats the spirit and just think we may even be lucky enough to have the supremely intelligent and honourable Mr Bercow on the European Commission fighting our corner for the next set of negotiations
Can you imagine it. Barnier at one side of the table and emily Thornberry at the other!

"So let me get this straight. :) The deal that you want us to offer you , right? :D You're going take it back to the UK right? :D And then tell the People they should vote, vote :D vote :D vote to reject it!!?? :lol:


"Would it help you if we made it a very bad deal at all!!!!!!!??????? :lol: . One that would be , how can I put this. A hard sell !!!!!!??????"


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:40 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Six defeats for Johnson inside one week. I wonder how his negotiations are going with the EU?

The right-wing hate rags were in a fury this morning. They certainly abhor democracy when it doesn't go their way. I suppose that is the way of the billionaire. I wonder who the next speaker will be? I suppose it's a LibDem's turn this time?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

From someone , a remoaner, who has never accepted the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


If carlsberg did hypocrisy and irony !

martin_p
Posts: 10367
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 pm
Been Liked: 3764 times
Has Liked: 696 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:50 pm

You can tell when Wrongo’s on one, the number of :lol: go through the roof.
Last edited by martin_p on Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This user liked this post: evensteadiereddie

android
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:01 am
Been Liked: 119 times
Has Liked: 43 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by android » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:51 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:At the end last nights, two fingers to the People, John Bercow love-in. The stomach churning images of MPs queuing up to shake hands with the convention scrapping, procedural rulebook burning Bercow will have been seen by Democrats all over the country with disbelief.


John McDonald got , not only a handshake, but a special hug from Bercow. The last time John McDonald got a hug like that.

It was from somebody on hunger strike!
Come on Ringo, who could fail to be moved by the perfect send off for loveable little super Johnny Bercow!

It was a typically humble resignation speech, although coming in at under an hour it was far too short to properly record his immense achievements, but he gave it a good go for his adoring audience. And what a sight to behold, as one half of the house packed to the rafters, rose as one to applaud, worship, weep and gloatingly stare across the chamber to the other side which was seated, mute and half empty. It is impossible to imagine a more fitting testament to his gloriously impartial reign.

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:56 pm

martin_p wrote:You can tell when Wrongo’s on one, the number of :lol: go through the roof.
Wrong Marty. There is a direct link between the increase in :lol: and the increase in things to be :lol: at!

And you're one of them!

:lol:

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:00 pm

android wrote:Come on Ringo, who could fail to be moved by the perfect send off for loveable little super Johnny Bercow!

It was a typically humble resignation speech, although coming in at under an hour it was far too short to properly record his immense achievements, but he gave it a good go for his adoring audience. And what a sight to behold, as one half of the house packed to the rafters, rose as one to applaud, worship, weep and gloatingly stare across the chamber to the other side which was seated, mute and half empty. It is impossible to imagine a more fitting testament to his gloriously impartial reign.
Those that were falling over themselves to massage bercows, already bloated, ego are clearly, blissfully unaware of the delta poll that showed that 82% of people feel that " parliament has become a laughing stock which is undermining democracy."

I'll be laughing when many of them will be unemployed after the next election!

Reasons to be cheerful. ;)

AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:08 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:

From someone , a remoaner, who has never accepted the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


If carlsberg did hypocrisy and irony !
Every general election between 1945 and 1992 brought out the same or greater proportion of voters, and it ranks 18th in terms of turnout contrasted with all the general elections since 1924. But you call it "the largest" - knock yourself out.

Of course I accept that the leave side won the referendum. What is also true is that the leave side have continually screwed up implementing it over three years. Three years...

aggi
Posts: 8762
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:11 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Six defeats for Johnson inside one week. I wonder how his negotiations are going with the EU?

The right-wing hate rags were in a fury this morning. They certainly abhor democracy when it doesn't go their way. I suppose that is the way of the billionaire. I wonder who the next speaker will be? I suppose it's a LibDem's turn this time?
Lindsay Hoyle is the current tip it seems. Probably back to Labour given the Tories have had ten years of their choice.

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:21 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Every general election between 1945 and 1992 brought out the same or greater proportion of voters, and it ranks 18th in terms of turnout contrasted with all the general elections since 1924. But you call it "the largest" - knock yourself out.

Of course I accept that the leave side won the referendum. What is also true is that the leave side have continually screwed up implementing it over three years. Three years...
For 3 years the leave side has been represented by Remoaners, May and Robbins in a parliament where 75% of MPs voted Remain!

In these elections that you mention Andrew.

Name me one single party that received a vote in excess of 17,410,742.

Then you may be able to claim that was the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed.

You're going to struggle, cos it doesn't exist.

You knock yourself out Andrew.
Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

martin_p
Posts: 10367
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 pm
Been Liked: 3764 times
Has Liked: 696 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:24 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:In these elections that you mention Andrew.

Name me one single party that received a vote in excess of 17,410,742.

Then you may be able to claim that was the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed.

You're going to struggle, cos it doesn't exist.

You knock yourself out Andrew.
You forget Andrew, we’re working on Wrongo specific definitions.

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:27 pm

martin_p wrote:You forget Andrew, we’re working on Wrongo specific definitions.
Its neither my fault , nor my problem, if remoaners dont understand plain English - "largest single expression"


I can see why you voted Remain now! :lol: :lol: :lol:

aggi
Posts: 8762
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:32 pm

I think what RIngo is trying to say is that voting isn't an expression of democracy unless you vote for the side that won.

martin_p
Posts: 10367
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 pm
Been Liked: 3764 times
Has Liked: 696 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:35 pm

aggi wrote:I think what RIngo is trying to say is that voting isn't an expression of democracy unless you vote for the side that won.
Yep, you only count as being part of an ‘expression of democracy’ if you vote for the right side. Think they have a similar definition in North Korea.

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:40 pm

aggi wrote:I think what RIngo is trying to say is that voting isn't an expression of democracy unless you vote for the side that won.
You think wrong aggi. As I've explained to you time and time again. The Leave vote in the referendum was the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed.

You can huff and puff for the next 3 years like you have for the last 3. But nothing you can say can , will change that plain and simple fact.

Thank you.

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:47 pm

martin_p wrote:Yep, you only count as being part of an ‘expression of democracy’ if you vote for the right side. Think they have a similar definition in North Korea.

Wrong again Marty!!

It only counts as being the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed IF , it actually is given the figures, the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed!!


Hope that helps clear things up for you and the rest of the democracy denying Remoaner North Korean Clarets!


:lol:

aggi
Posts: 8762
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:09 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:You think wrong aggi. As I've explained to you time and time again. The Leave vote in the referendum was the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed.

You can huff and puff for the next 3 years like you have for the last 3. But nothing you can say can , will change that plain and simple fact.

Thank you.
It certainly didn't have the largest number of votes overall so it isn't the total number of votes that, by your definition, makes it the largest definition of democracy.

But you are claiming you're not calling it the largest expression because the winning option had the highest number of votes.

Why are you calling it that then?

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:28 pm

aggi wrote:It certainly didn't have the largest number of votes overall so it isn't the total number of votes that, by your definition, makes it the largest definition of democracy.


But you are claiming you're not calling it the largest expression because the winning option had the highest number of votes.
( * this is what it looks like when somebody is meeting themselves coming back when they're desperately trying not to lose lose an arguement that simple maths means they can never win :lol: :lol: !)

Why are you calling it that then?

:lol: :lol:

You're like a dog with a bone aggi!! Let it go! For your own well being!

You're the one saying the Leave vote isn't the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed.

If it isn't, what is?
Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:46 pm, edited 6 times in total.

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:30 pm

Johnson and Cummings are as dodgy as they come sadly.

https://twitter.com/alexGspence/status/ ... 1169947648" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AndrewJB
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:20 pm
Been Liked: 1159 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:53 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote::lol: :lol:

You're like a dog with a bone aggi!! Let it go! For your own well being!

You're the one saying the Leave vote isn't the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed.

If it isn't, what is?
I would have thought total number of voters would have been counted in a "single expression of democracy" - thirty-three and a half million, but whatever you say.

Any news on Johnson's negotiations with the EU? How do you think he balances his desire to get a deal, with his top donor's £300 Million bet on UK firms failing with a no deal brexit?

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:53 pm

Turns out that all the talk about the all-Irish backstop is because its part of the alternative arrangements mess that the government keep pushing, despite it solving nothing.

RingoMcCartney
Posts: 10318
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:45 pm
Been Liked: 2636 times
Has Liked: 2798 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:03 pm

AndrewJB wrote:I would have thought total number of voters would have been counted in a "single expression of democracy" - thirty-three and a half million, but whatever you say.

Any news on Johnson's negotiations with the EU? How do you think he balances his desire to get a deal, with his top donor's £300 Million bet on UK firms failing with a no deal brexit?
Let's see how johnson gets on eh!? And let's see if millions of voters give a toss about his donors business decisions when they come to vote. (They may well consider it to be a vote loser!)



33,500,000 you reckon!?

And which single party, in a general election, or single option in a referendum, received this 33,500,000 exactly!?

(And you just know that in the North Korean Clarets homes, theres been some desperate Googling of past results! To absolutely no avail!!! ) :lol:

android
Posts: 670
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:01 am
Been Liked: 119 times
Has Liked: 43 times

Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by android » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:23 pm

AndrewJB wrote:I would have thought total number of voters would have been counted in a "single expression of democracy" - thirty-three and a half million, but whatever you say.

Any news on Johnson's negotiations with the EU? How do you think he balances his desire to get a deal, with his top donor's £300 Million bet on UK firms failing with a no deal brexit?
Just for a bit of balance Andrew can you tell us how much this same donor has also "bet" on UK firms succeeding or on European firms failing with a no deal Brexit?

Locked