Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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martin_p
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:47 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Not really though is it?

If a business has been struggling for a number of years prior to Brexit and needed bailing out because it was on the brink of collapse, it's difficult to stick the blame on Brexit when it's on the verge of collapse again, unless that's what you really really want to do to suit an argument....

Like many industries, things change and those that can't keep up fall by the wayside, it's just how it is.
If I can buy a holiday online and save a few hundred quid then why would I bother going to a travel agents and getting fleeced?
Didn’t know you could get a holiday at a pawnbrokers, must give it a try!

Brexit has had an impact the the holiday sector this year whether online or not. The uncertainty over when we were leaving and under what terms meant that many families delayed booking a holiday or just decided to stay in the U.K.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:47 am

ZizkovClaret wrote:Thomas Cook set to be a Brexit victim before it even happens?
Hi Zizkov, see details I posted around midnight - Most of TC's business is based in Germany and Scandinavia. 22,000 employees in total, including 9,000 in the UK. Why do you think TC's problems are related to Brexit? You're in Prague/Czech Republic, aren't you? Are all the business challenges in Czech Rep related to Brexit?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:49 am

martin_p wrote:Didn’t know you could get a holiday at a pawnbrokers, must give it a try!

Brexit has had an impact the the holiday sector this year whether online or not. The uncertainty over when we were leaving and under what terms meant that many families delayed booking a holiday or just decided to stay in the U.K.
Hi martin, maybe you can have a go at explaining how Brexit is an issue for TC. See my post a little earlier. Majority of TC business is based in Germany and Scandinavia.

Oh, and I went to Spain, first week of April (remember when 29-March was Brexit day). I even bought my International Driving Permit (Spain version - valid 1 year only). I also enjoyed 2 weeks in Majorca in July (great weather!). I'm doing my bit to keep the holiday industry going. Where's everyone else on this?
Last edited by Paul Waine on Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:52 am

Regarding the chat earlier about whether an EU referendum was an issue before UKIP started getting loads of votes there's an interesting article on it on the BBC website. Seems it was a bubbling issue (with the Lib Dems and the Greens some of the ones bringing it up surprisingly) but not with the attention it has now.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:56 am

aggi wrote:Regarding the chat earlier about whether an EU referendum was an issue before UKIP started getting loads of votes there's an interesting article on it on the BBC website. Seems it was a bubbling issue (with the Lib Dems and the Greens some of the ones bringing it up surprisingly) but not with the attention it has now.
Capture.JPG
Hi aggi, only "surprisingly" by the Lib Dems if you weren't paying attention to politics 10+ years ago. Lib Dems wanted a referendum on the Lisbon treaty (2007, I think). Tony Blair's Labour also "promised" a referendum in their election literature back then.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:58 am

Paul Waine wrote:Hi martin, maybe you can have a go at explaining how Brexit is an issue for TC. See my post a little earlier. Majority of TC business is based in Germany and Scandinavia.

Oh, and I went to Spain, first week of April (remember when 29-March was Brexit day). I even bought my International Driving Permit (Spain version - valid 1 year only). I also enjoyed 2 weeks in Majorca in July (great weather!). I'm doing my bit to keep the holiday industry going. Where's everyone else on this?
It doesn’t matter where their staff are, they sell holidays! If one of its major markets (I.e the U.K.) is flat then it’s going to be seriously affected isn’t it.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:00 am

martin_p wrote:Didn’t know you could get a holiday at a pawnbrokers, must give it a try!

Brexit has had an impact the the holiday sector this year whether online or not. The uncertainty over when we were leaving and under what terms meant that many families delayed booking a holiday or just decided to stay in the U.K.
Yes it's had an impact, but as pointed out this isn't the first time the company has been on the verge of collapse.
People's habits for buying holidays have been changing for years, that's just a simple fact as people get smarter to the idea of shopping online.
Brexit can be a contributing factor, but it won't be the main/sole reason because it's already proven to have a poor business model in recent times.

Like I said, if you really really want to blame Brexit then great, knock yourself out, but looking outside the box shows other issues.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:01 am

martin_p wrote:It doesn’t matter where their staff are, they sell holidays! If one of its major markets (I.e the U.K.) is flat then it’s going to be seriously affected isn’t it.
The German economy is in trouble also, could that be a contributing factor?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:05 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:The German economy is in trouble also, could that be a contributing factor?

martin would blame brexit if the batteries in his remote control went hardly a shock this is brexits fault. Nothing to do with an outdated over priced company who sell package holidays which are cheaper for everyone if they book it themselves.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:23 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Yes it's had an impact, but as pointed out this isn't the first time the company has been on the verge of collapse.
People's habits for buying holidays have been changing for years, that's just a simple fact as people get smarter to the idea of shopping online.
Brexit can be a contributing factor, but it won't be the main/sole reason because it's already proven to have a poor business model in recent times.

Like I said, if you really really want to blame Brexit then great, knock yourself out, but looking outside the box shows other issues.
Thomas Cook sell holidays online and have an airline, this is much bigger than people not nipping down the their local travel agents anymore.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:29 am

martin_p wrote:Thomas Cook sell holidays online and have an airline, this is much bigger than people not nipping down the their local travel agents anymore.
They have numerous buildings, usually rented out, plus other enormous overheads, including staff abroad etc.

Like I said, if I can save a few hundred quid by buying the holiday online then I will.

My last one I booked the hotel and flight via Expedia/Sky Scanner and also the hire car.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:34 am

Oh and Thomas Cook didn't even run at an operating profit for the first half of this decade, so they've got a mountain of debt that they can't service now and can't borrow due to their precarious position...
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:35 am

Paul Waine wrote:Oh, and I went to Spain, first week of April (remember when 29-March was Brexit day). I even bought my International Driving Permit (Spain version - valid 1 year only). I also enjoyed 2 weeks in Majorca in July (great weather!). I'm doing my bit to keep the holiday industry going. Where's everyone else on this?
Sorry Paul never realised that I was needed to do anything. I just thought I had to sit and wait for the easiest deal in history to be struck and wait for the sunlit uplands to arrive.

Apart from booking holidays is there anything else you require me to do around the next Brexit day to 'do my bit'?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:38 am

Tall Paul wrote:Also known as the Sidney/Godisadeejay argument.
Have you never watched the film Beetlejuice!!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Darthlaw » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:41 am

martin_p wrote:This is the ‘people die in car crashes every day so I’m not sure why you’d have a problem with me shooting you in the head’ argument.
Regarding the Pawnbroker going belly up, it’s akin to you saying people die in car crashes every day but since 2016 they crash because of Brexit.

I do notice you’ve stopped talking about the Pawnbroker and moved to Thomas Cook as your argument was shown to be ridiculous, though.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Darthlaw » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:46 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:They have numerous buildings, usually rented out, plus other enormous overheads, including staff abroad etc.

Like I said, if I can save a few hundred quid by buying the holiday online then I will.

My last one I booked the hotel and flight via Expedia/Sky Scanner and also the hire car.
It’s Blockbuster Video all over again. Obsolete business model.

Unless you’re Martin - then it’s because, well, Brexit.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:51 am

Darthlaw wrote:Regarding the Pawnbroker going belly up, it’s akin to you saying people die in car crashes every day but since 2016 they crash because of Brexit.

I do notice you’ve stopped talking about the Pawnbroker and moved to Thomas Cook as your argument was shown to be ridiculous, though.
Well no, the link was about the pawnbroker but the response to my comment on the link was about Thomas Cook. Wasn’t me that changed the subject.

The point I’m trying to make is that however many contributing factors there are we’re adding on an additional self inflicted one. If companies are struggling the government should be helping to make conditions better for them not deliberately making them worse.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:26 pm

aggi wrote:Lowbank uncritically repeating ******** that he read on the internet! That is a shocker
Yes got drawn into that one. Wrongly

I think the fact he was an activist in this case is irrelevant, he had a 7 (think it’s day old) child that was very ill and had been waiting to see a doctor for hours.
He had every right to have a strong chat about it
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Darthlaw » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:29 pm

martin_p wrote:If companies are struggling the government should be helping to make conditions better for them not deliberately making them worse.
What would you suggest the government do for Thomas Cook? The concept of high street travel agents has been dying for years.

It’s not the Governments responsibility to fund failed concepts or business models. Unless it’s DeLorean, they can fund them again, so me and all the other BTTF fans can have one. :D

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:42 pm

Hells bells lads, this is one of those very rare times that you are both right.

Thomas Cook does have an outdated economic model, and there is no doubt that Brexit is causing problems in the travel sector.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:45 pm

Interesting video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXEJav7 ... zKew9dpJgE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:48 pm

Darthlaw wrote:Regarding the Pawnbroker going belly up, it’s akin to you saying people die in car crashes every day but since 2016 they crash because of Brexit.

I do notice you’ve stopped talking about the Pawnbroker and moved to Thomas Cook as your argument was shown to be ridiculous, though.
It's probably also because the Japanese owners blamed Brexit in a statement to their investors. Obviously they may have been lying to their investors in which case I imagine there'll be some repercussions.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:02 pm

A bunch of amateurs:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... als-secret" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Bacchus » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:37 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
E60EABAD-68E0-487C-ADC3-24F3DAB4DA63.png
People are still using this simplistic nonsenseas a justification for Brexit?

It costs me £30 a week in diesel to get to work. Next week I'm going to quit my job and then I'll be £30 a week better off.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:43 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Hells bells lads, this is one of those very rare times that you are both right.

Thomas Cook does have an outdated economic model, and there is no doubt that Brexit is causing problems in the travel sector.
I think thats about it, aye

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:54 pm

Darthlaw wrote:What would you suggest the government do for Thomas Cook? The concept of high street travel agents has been dying for years.

It’s not the Governments responsibility to fund failed concepts or business models. Unless it’s DeLorean, they can fund them again, so me and all the other BTTF fans can have one. :D
I was at the car show at Sherbourne castle this summer and there were 3 Delorean sat there.

One of the owners had gone "full kit ******" mode with replica items in the car plus a plaque signed by the Doc and Biff.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:25 pm

martin_p wrote:It doesn’t matter where their staff are, they sell holidays! If one of its major markets (I.e the U.K.) is flat then it’s going to be seriously affected isn’t it.
Hi martin, if one location is flat - and the UK isn't even the largest location - then it may slow down profits. A "flat" location for one part of a business should not be enough to be an existential threat to a business. Based on the metrics reported in the press, both Germany and Scandinavia are bigger parts of their business - and, I don't think that means they are selling holidays in Britain to German's and Scandinavians... and, only if they are losing money in these bigger markets should TC be in the state it is in.

The "hows" and "whys"? well, if we are really interested we could take at their financial reports and make some well informed decisions about the source of TC's problems.

However, if we just want to say "look how bad Brexit is" I guess we will not be too bothered at looking any deeper into TC.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by summitclaret » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:29 pm

martin_p wrote:Well no, the link was about the pawnbroker but the response to my comment on the link was about Thomas Cook. Wasn’t me that changed the subject.

The point I’m trying to make is that however many contributing factors there are we’re adding on an additional self inflicted one. If companies are struggling the government should be helping to make conditions better for them not deliberately making them worse.
It is by trying to get a clear way forward now and end the uncertainty. Whereas remainers appear happy to wait until enough leavers kick the bucket.
Last edited by summitclaret on Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:30 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Sorry Paul never realised that I was needed to do anything. I just thought I had to sit and wait for the easiest deal in history to be struck and wait for the sunlit uplands to arrive.

Apart from booking holidays is there anything else you require me to do around the next Brexit day to 'do my bit'?
Hi DA, I'm sure there's a saying "good things come to those who wait." But, there's lot's of other sayings also.

I guess if we check on yellowhammer you could get yourself done to Dover and help with loading and unloading all the lorries. And, how are you at mixing medicines? Or, you could try growing some fresh veg - maybe Tesco's will put in an order for 500 tonnes of lettuce.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:37 pm

martin_p wrote:Well no, the link was about the pawnbroker but the response to my comment on the link was about Thomas Cook. Wasn’t me that changed the subject.

The point I’m trying to make is that however many contributing factors there are we’re adding on an additional self inflicted one. If companies are struggling the government should be helping to make conditions better for them not deliberately making them worse.
Can I add, martin, why are you not asking the German and the Scandinavian governments to "make conditions better for Thomas Cook."

Ah, I've got it... it's also Brexit's fault that the German government has been busy negotiation the UK's exit and so is neglecting the German economy.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:40 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Hells bells lads, this is one of those very rare times that you are both right.

Thomas Cook does have an outdated economic model, and there is no doubt that Brexit is causing problems in the travel sector.
Hi Lancs, you dealing with the "realities" also. Can you explaining what the German and Scandinavian governments have been doing wrong to put TC's business under pressure?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:38 pm

Both sides should read this article.

Disagrees with some things I have put on here , but also agrees with some things.

It’s a long read.

https://unitynewsnetwork.co.uk/bombshel ... ally-mean/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:49 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Both sides should read this article.

Disagrees with some things I have put on here , but also agrees with some things.

It’s a long read.

https://unitynewsnetwork.co.uk/bombshel ... ally-mean/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I thought this was a spoof website when I saw this advert:

Image

Suffice to say it may not be totally unbiased https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/unity-news-network/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by summitclaret » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:01 pm

Nearly as extreme as a lib dem manifesto

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:53 pm

aggi wrote:I thought this was a spoof website when I saw this advert:

Image

Suffice to say it may not be totally unbiased https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/unity-news-network/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As always, it’s not easy to find unbiased analysis.

I wonder if the part about us not getting rebate after 2020 is true.

Need to do more digging!!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:07 pm

It would appear if we reverse Brexit our rebate of approx 4.5 billion would end at the end of 2020.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by summitclaret » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:10 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:It would appear if we reverse Brexit our rebate of approx 4.5 billion would end at the end of 2020.
I know that's why once we leave that's it forever and why the remainers are fighting like ****. I still want out.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:24 pm

According to this we can't leave with a deal before 31st October:

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/poli ... is-johnson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:20 pm

Spijed wrote:According to this we can't leave with a deal before 31st October:

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/poli ... is-johnson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I’ve mentioned something similar before, I.e. that there’s a line of thought that Johnson will bring back a deal and get it through parliament and therefore not have to request an extension. But then he knows there won’t be time to get the bill through and we’ll leave with no deal anyway.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndyClaret » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:11 am

In other news, the nonce finder General Tom Watson is to be purged.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49776100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:40 am

Image

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by claretspice » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:44 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:It would appear if we reverse Brexit our rebate of approx 4.5 billion would end at the end of 2020.
You've even posted an article yourself which confirms that this is rubbish.

Can we stick to things that are true, please?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:04 am

AndyClaret wrote:In other news, the nonce finder General Tom Watson is to be purged.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49776100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Communism at its finest.

Labour once again proving they are completely unfit to run the country.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:12 am

claretspice wrote:You've even posted an article yourself which confirms that this is rubbish.

Can we stick to things that are true, please?
There are lots of articles stating the EU wants to end rebates. Whilst it not a certainty, it looks very likely in the event of an extension or remaining that it would be reduced or go altogether.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-brita ... KKCN1MM1PV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics- ... m-36085281" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Cryssys » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:23 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:Communism at its finest.

Labour once again proving they are completely unfit to run the country.

Was it communism when Boris threw out 21 MP's for not supporting him or is that different? Maybe that's a right wing dictatorship?

Based on the last three years, what makes you think the Tories are fit to run the country?

Prat.
Last edited by Cryssys on Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

AndrewJB
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:26 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:Communism at its finest.

Labour once again proving they are completely unfit to run the country.
Where does that leave the Tory Party, purging 21 members?

AndyClaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndyClaret » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:27 am

Cryssys wrote:Was it communism when Boris threw out 21 MP's for not supporting him or is that different? Maybe that's a right wing dictatorship?

Based on the last three years, what makes you thing the Tories are fit to run the country?

Prat.
It was a confidence motion, they were warned beforehand what would happen.

AndrewJB
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:28 am

Cryssys wrote:Was it communism when Boris threw out 21 MP's for not supporting him or is that different? Maybe that's a right wing dictatorship?

Based on the last three years, what makes you thing the Tories are fit to run the country?

Prat.
What you said. :)

AndyClaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndyClaret » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:28 am

AndrewJB wrote:Where does that leave the Tory Party, purging 21 members?
They voted against their own government on a confidence motion, they were pre-warned of the consequences.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:34 am

AndyClaret wrote:It was a confidence motion, they were warned beforehand what would happen.
It wasn’t a confidence motion.

Your narrative is; whatever Labour does is communism, and whatever the Tories do - even if it’s more extreme than Labour (Tom Watson will still be a Labour Party member if his position is changed) - that is for a good reason. Life must be thrilling with all that certainty to it.

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