Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[Cryssys]

I am happy with a no deal Brexit.

The world will not end.

Yes I accept there will be issues but no one really knows what they are.

Then get some trade deals done, one hopefully with the EU.

The Church of Brexit. I have no idea whats going to happen but I believe things will get better despite having no evidence to support this view.

If that is not an act of faith then I don't know what is. People like yourself are the fundamentalists, the zealots who expect everybody else to think and behave the same way as you do.

"Hopefully get some trade deals done" They've had three years to get some done and with the exception of a couple of minor deals they have achieved sod all.

[aggi]

It would appear if we reverse Brexit our rebate of approx 4.5 billion would end at the end of 2020.

That's not true though is it. If you're just guessing at stuff you should say so.

The EU wants to end the rebates. However, it's one of those many things that the EU would like that doesn't get past the member states (who in reality run the EU).

It would require unanimous agreement to end the rebate but the Netherlands, Austria and Denmark have already said they'd vote against it and the UK obviously would if it hasn't surrendered its influence.

[AndrewJB]

They voted against their own government on a confidence motion, they were pre-warned of the consequences.

One person’s position abolished - a Stalinist purge. Twenty-one sitting MPs denied the whip - a reasonable and deserved response to their transgressions. Good thing Johnson and his cabinet never voted against their own...hold on...

[martin_p]

Communism at its finest.

Labour once again proving they are completely unfit to run the country.

They’ve ditched the vote anyway.

[claretspice]

There are lots of articles stating the EU wants to end rebates. Whilst it not a certainty, it looks very likely in the event of an extension or remaining that it would be reduced or go altogether.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-brita ... KKCN1MM1PV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics- ... m-36085281" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The only way the UK could lose its rebate is if we fail to participate in the budget negotiations. The budget requires unanimity so if we are at the table, quite obviously the rebate can be maintained - or substituted for a more suitable mechanism which is net neutral on the UK. The views of a commissioner are interesting but no more relevant than the views of a British civil servant because this is a matter for the member states - like all significant decisions.

Once again, you're peddling something which is at best misleading and at worst a downright untruth. Whether deliberately or not I don't know, but it distresses me that folk can so easily misrepresent the truth.

[AndrewJB]

The only way the UK could lose its rebate is if we fail to participate in the budget negotiations. The budget requires unanimity so if we are at the table, quite obviously the rebate can be maintained - or substituted for a more suitable mechanism which is net neutral on the UK.

Once again, you're peddling something which is at best misleading and at worst a downright untruth. Whether deliberately or not I don't know, but it distresses me that folk can so easily misrepresent the truth.

Now it’s turned out that the easiest trade deal in history, we hold all the cards, and the EU will be falling all over themselves to do a good deal with us are completely untrue; this is where they now turn. Soon they’ll be adding: “we can’t go back now, because too much has been said and done by both sides (not true) for us to pick up the relationship as it was”

[Spijed]

Low bank, if there is a no-deal brexit what will you do with regards to the Brexit party in Burnley?

[Lowbankclaret]

Low bank, if there is a no-deal brexit what will you do with regards to the Brexit party in Burnley?

Someone is going to have to make post Brexit work.
Lib Dem’s and Labour will want to rejoin no doubt.
I hope the Brexit party will develop policies the people will want to support. But at this time the party is awaiting door step feedback to create those policies.
So hopefully the party grows, but it may just fade away if all the other parties take up the challenge.

[Lancasterclaret]

Someone is going to have to make post Brexit work.
Lib Dem’s and Labour will want to rejoin no doubt.
I hope the Brexit party will develop policies the people will want to support. But at this time the party is awaiting door step feedback to create those policies.
So hopefully the party grows, but it may just fade away if all the other parties take up the challenge.

Golden Dawn Party in Greece just faded away, without achieve anything, so here's hoping!

[TheFamilyCat]

Leaving the EU is the worst possible scenario for Farage. It gives him absolutely no reason to exist.

[HieronymousBoschHobs]

I don't mind the foreigners because they don't mind a decent wage for a decent day's work, unlike some of the lazy Brit youngsters I see as an employer. But there's too many of them, that's the problem, and the NHS just can't cope. People talk about the automotive industry going under after Brexit, but that's a nonsense: a Jaguar Land Rover is iconic. When I started my business, I couldn't wait to drive one. Now Corbyn and his Marxist-Communist intellectuals want to take my success away from me. These people need a basic lesson at the university of life.

They don't pay attention to economic common sense. You don't run a business by borrowing more than your turnover. I pay a fair rate to my employees and they always tell me they like working for me. But we're not a charity, and sadly, I've had to lose people over the years. That's fair. These lefties would have me giving handouts. There's nothing fair about that.

The EU wants to turn us into a colony. We're the oldest democracy in the world and, unlike them, didn't roll over for the Nazis at the first opportunity. Who are they to tell us what to do? Farage speaks a lot of sense and he understands business. Business doesn't require fancy degrees, it requires hardwork - something these lefties will never understand because most of them are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and do doss degrees before getting a job from Mummy and Daddy.

When I bought my first house in the 70s, I'd worked hard for it. How many can say that now? Too many people in this country are afraid of a little graft IMO. They're more interested in blaming other people for their problems than they are in sorting them out for myself. When I had issues in my business, I sorted them out myself. A few phonecalls can go a long way, IF you're prepared to put the effort in.

Unlike many, I'm proud to be a citizen of this country, and proud to be a stereotype of the average UpTheClarets Tory.

[AndyClaret]

With Labour tearing itself apart, the latest poll shows a 100 seat Tory majority.

[Spijed]

With Labour tearing itself apart, the latest poll shows a 100 seat Tory majority.

Teresa May had a 17 point lead going into the election.

[ClaretAndJew]

I don't mind the foreigners because they don't mind a decent wage for a decent day's work, unlike some of the lazy Brit youngsters I see as an employer. But there's too many of them, that's the problem, and the NHS just can't cope. People talk about the automotive industry going under after Brexit, but that's a nonsense: a Jaguar Land Rover is iconic. When I started my business, I couldn't wait to drive one. Now Corbyn and his Marxist-Communist intellectuals want to take my success away from me. These people need a basic lesson at the university of life.

They don't pay attention to economic common sense. You don't run a business by borrowing more than your turnover. I pay a fair rate to my employees and they always tell me they like working for me. But we're not a charity, and sadly, I've had to lose people over the years. That's fair. These lefties would have me giving handouts. There's nothing fair about that.

The EU wants to turn us into a colony. We're the oldest democracy in the world and, unlike them, didn't roll over for the Nazis at the first opportunity. Who are they to tell us what to do? Farage speaks a lot of sense and he understands business. Business doesn't require fancy degrees, it requires hardwork - something these lefties will never understand because most of them are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and do doss degrees before getting a job from Mummy and Daddy.

When I bought my first house in the 70s, I'd worked hard for it. How many can say that now? Too many people in this country are afraid of a little graft IMO. They're more interested in blaming other people for their problems than they are in sorting them out for myself. When I had issues in my business, I sorted them out myself. A few phonecalls can go a long way, IF you're prepared to put the effort in.

Unlike many, I'm proud to be a citizen of this country, and proud to be a stereotype of the average UpTheClarets Tory.

Christ on a bike

[AndyClaret]

Teresa May had a 17 point lead going into the election.

Boris isn't May, people won't fall for Labours con job this time.

[RMutt]

I’ll tell you what as well HieronymousBoschHobs, a bit of national service wouldn’t do these youngsters any harm.

[Devils_Advocate]

I don't mind the foreigners because they don't mind a decent wage for a decent day's work, unlike some of the lazy Brit youngsters I see as an employer. But there's too many of them, that's the problem, and the NHS just can't cope. People talk about the automotive industry going under after Brexit, but that's a nonsense: a Jaguar Land Rover is iconic. When I started my business, I couldn't wait to drive one. Now Corbyn and his Marxist-Communist intellectuals want to take my success away from me. These people need a basic lesson at the university of life.

They don't pay attention to economic common sense. You don't run a business by borrowing more than your turnover. I pay a fair rate to my employees and they always tell me they like working for me. But we're not a charity, and sadly, I've had to lose people over the years. That's fair. These lefties would have me giving handouts. There's nothing fair about that.

The EU wants to turn us into a colony. We're the oldest democracy in the world and, unlike them, didn't roll over for the Nazis at the first opportunity. Who are they to tell us what to do? Farage speaks a lot of sense and he understands business. Business doesn't require fancy degrees, it requires hardwork - something these lefties will never understand because most of them are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and do doss degrees before getting a job from Mummy and Daddy.

When I bought my first house in the 70s, I'd worked hard for it. How many can say that now? Too many people in this country are afraid of a little graft IMO. They're more interested in blaming other people for their problems than they are in sorting them out for myself. When I had issues in my business, I sorted them out myself. A few phonecalls can go a long way, IF you're prepared to put the effort in.

Unlike many, I'm proud to be a citizen of this country, and proud to be a stereotype of the average UpTheClarets Tory.

Hows the hangover today pal? Must have been a pretty **** night to get home in the early hours, log on and post this shite

[summitclaret]

Christ on a bike

It wasn't quite that good

[PWBFC]

I don't mind the foreigners because they don't mind a decent wage for a decent day's work, unlike some of the lazy Brit youngsters I see as an employer. But there's too many of them, that's the problem, and the NHS just can't cope. People talk about the automotive industry going under after Brexit, but that's a nonsense: a Jaguar Land Rover is iconic. When I started my business, I couldn't wait to drive one. Now Corbyn and his Marxist-Communist intellectuals want to take my success away from me. These people need a basic lesson at the university of life.

They don't pay attention to economic common sense. You don't run a business by borrowing more than your turnover. I pay a fair rate to my employees and they always tell me they like working for me. But we're not a charity, and sadly, I've had to lose people over the years. That's fair. These lefties would have me giving handouts. There's nothing fair about that.

The EU wants to turn us into a colony. We're the oldest democracy in the world and, unlike them, didn't roll over for the Nazis at the first opportunity. Who are they to tell us what to do? Farage speaks a lot of sense and he understands business. Business doesn't require fancy degrees, it requires hardwork - something these lefties will never understand because most of them are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and do doss degrees before getting a job from Mummy and Daddy.

When I bought my first house in the 70s, I'd worked hard for it. How many can say that now? Too many people in this country are afraid of a little graft IMO. They're more interested in blaming other people for their problems than they are in sorting them out for myself. When I had issues in my business, I sorted them out myself. A few phonecalls can go a long way, IF you're prepared to put the effort in.

Unlike many, I'm proud to be a citizen of this country, and proud to be a stereotype of the average UpTheClarets Tory.

This is an excellent cast I reckon.

In the unlikely event this is a serious post

[Spijed]

Boris isn't May, people won't fall for Labours con job this time.

Certainly many are falling for his racism. The sad thing is many agree with his comments about "black people with water melon smiles".

How long will it be before people like Raheem Stirling are driven abroad because of the growing racism in this country when those type of comments are aimed in his direction?

[Cryssys]

Communism at its finest.

Labour once again proving they are completely unfit to run the country.

There are a number of posters on here who choose to the believe that the labour Party will destroy the country and makes slaves of us all. Many of these people also bang on about how they no longer represent the ordinary man living as they do in a metropolitan London bubble.

The same people also believe that Boris Johnson, Jacobs Rees Mogg and the rest of their privately educated chums inhabit the real world and understand and care about the the ordinary working person. How naive can you get?

With regard to policies to help ordinary people why not try these:

• Stop migrants claiming benefits until they have lived in the UK for two years
• Recruit an additional 1,000 border staff, paid for by a small charge on non-visa visitors to the UK
• Safeguard over 10,000 front line police officers over the next three years
• People working in public facing roles in the public sector will have to speak English
• "Cut the deficit every year and balance the books as soon as possible in the next Parliament"
• Bring back the 50p top income tax rate for those earning over £150,000
• End the non-dom rule that allows some wealthy UK residents to limit the tax they pay on earnings outside the country
• "Cut and then freeze" business rates
• Guarantee an apprenticeship for all school leavers who attain certain grades and "require any firm that gets a large government contract to offer apprenticeships"
• Ban zero-hours contracts deemed to be "exploitative"
• Introduce a British Investment Bank
• Ensure all primary schools guarantee access to childcare from 08:00 to 18:00
• Double paternity leave to four weeks, with paternity pay increased by more than £100 a week
• Build at least 200,000 new homes a year by 2020 with "first priority for local first time buyers"
• Guarantee three-year housing tenancies with a "ceiling on excessive rent rises"
• Raising the minimum wage to more than £8 by October 2019
• Freezing rail fares for one year
• Protecting tax credits for working families so they rise with inflation
• Introducing a new National Primary Childcare Service, guaranteeing childcare from 08:00 to 18:00

The manifesto also pledges there will be no increase to the basic or higher rates of income tax, National Insurance or VAT.

I can't see much wrong with that.

[AndyClaret]

Certainly many are falling for his racism. The sad thing is many agree with his comments about "black people with water melon smiles".

How long will it be before people like Raheem Stirling are driven abroad because of the growing racism in this country when those type of comments are aimed in his direction?

Where did he say "black people with watermelon smiles" ?

[ClaretAndJew]

Where did he say "black people with watermelon smiles" ?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/23/afri ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AndyClaret]

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/23/afri ... index.html

Thanks for confirming that he didn't say "black people with water melon smiles."

[ClaretAndJew]

Thanks for confirming that he didn't say "black people with water melon smiles."

Is what he said any better? As opposed to the literal direct quote.

[Lowbankclaret]

There are a number of posters on here who choose to the believe that the labour Party will destroy the country and makes slaves of us all. Many of these people also bang on about how they no longer represent the ordinary man living as they do in a metropolitan London bubble.

The same people also believe that Boris Johnson, Jacobs Rees Mogg and the rest of their privately educated chums inhabit the real world and understand and care about the the ordinary working person. How naive can you get?

With regard to policies to help ordinary people why not try these:

• Stop migrants claiming benefits until they have lived in the UK for two years
• Recruit an additional 1,000 border staff, paid for by a small charge on non-visa visitors to the UK
• Safeguard over 10,000 front line police officers over the next three years
• People working in public facing roles in the public sector will have to speak English
• "Cut the deficit every year and balance the books as soon as possible in the next Parliament"
• Bring back the 50p top income tax rate for those earning over £150,000
• End the non-dom rule that allows some wealthy UK residents to limit the tax they pay on earnings outside the country
• "Cut and then freeze" business rates
• Guarantee an apprenticeship for all school leavers who attain certain grades and "require any firm that gets a large government contract to offer apprenticeships"
• Ban zero-hours contracts deemed to be "exploitative"
• Introduce a British Investment Bank
• Ensure all primary schools guarantee access to childcare from 08:00 to 18:00
• Double paternity leave to four weeks, with paternity pay increased by more than £100 a week
• Build at least 200,000 new homes a year by 2020 with "first priority for local first time buyers"
• Guarantee three-year housing tenancies with a "ceiling on excessive rent rises"
• Raising the minimum wage to more than £8 by October 2019
• Freezing rail fares for one year
• Protecting tax credits for working families so they rise with inflation
• Introducing a new National Primary Childcare Service, guaranteeing childcare from 08:00 to 18:00

The manifesto also pledges there will be no increase to the basic or higher rates of income tax, National Insurance or VAT.

I can't see much wrong with that.

Serious question, are the Labour Party not developing the Manifesto at the current conference?? Is there a link to the new manifesto?

Also as we all know a manifesto is list of things they can then ignore when they get into power. Because of their current constant changing I would trust nothing in the manifesto. I say that about the three main parties.

[AndyClaret]

Is what he said any better? As opposed to the literal direct quote.

Its certainly very different when you see the full context talking about tribal warriors hacking people to death.

[Lowbankclaret]

Teresa May had a 17 point lead going into the election.

Yes and she attacked her core support.
When you look at the demographic of Tory voters, the age at which they have a majority is the over 55’s and she attacked pensioners. An act of complete stupidity
With Cummins around Boris is not going to make mistakes of that magnitude.

You guys may not like the opinion that Labour is imploding but the evidence around Burnley from people I have spoken to is just that.
One couple I spoke to, both Labour voters of the past, he has never voted anything but Labour (he is 60), but admits he cannot vote Labour under Corbyn. Nor can his wife. They are in a large quandary on who to vote for, but could be Brexit party depending on its manifesto.

Releasing ideas like the garden tax. If they are the party for the many not the few, how about reversing the tax changes of the Tories and bring many people back into the tax system.
43% of people now pay no tax on pay.

How about scrapping their invention of student loans that’s preventing loads of kids going to do degrees.

[Rileybobs]

I don't mind the foreigners because they don't mind a decent wage for a decent day's work, unlike some of the lazy Brit youngsters I see as an employer. But there's too many of them, that's the problem, and the NHS just can't cope. People talk about the automotive industry going under after Brexit, but that's a nonsense: a Jaguar Land Rover is iconic. When I started my business, I couldn't wait to drive one. Now Corbyn and his Marxist-Communist intellectuals want to take my success away from me. These people need a basic lesson at the university of life.

They don't pay attention to economic common sense. You don't run a business by borrowing more than your turnover. I pay a fair rate to my employees and they always tell me they like working for me. But we're not a charity, and sadly, I've had to lose people over the years. That's fair. These lefties would have me giving handouts. There's nothing fair about that.

The EU wants to turn us into a colony. We're the oldest democracy in the world and, unlike them, didn't roll over for the Nazis at the first opportunity. Who are they to tell us what to do? Farage speaks a lot of sense and he understands business. Business doesn't require fancy degrees, it requires hardwork - something these lefties will never understand because most of them are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and do doss degrees before getting a job from Mummy and Daddy.

When I bought my first house in the 70s, I'd worked hard for it. How many can say that now? Too many people in this country are afraid of a little graft IMO. They're more interested in blaming other people for their problems than they are in sorting them out for myself. When I had issues in my business, I sorted them out myself. A few phonecalls can go a long way, IF you're prepared to put the effort in.

Unlike many, I'm proud to be a citizen of this country, and proud to be a stereotype of the average UpTheClarets Tory.

Very nearly a full house but you forgot to mention that your grandfather fought to defend these shores. Good effort though.

[Lowbankclaret]

In another unexpected event. My Friend I go on the turf with suddenly announced he has in the last month changed from a remainer to a leaver. I avoid the subject at football but some one else brought it up and he cited the actions of the EU recently that’s changed his mind.

It is dividing the country but I think People’s opinions will get even more polarised over the coming 5-6 weeks.

[Lancasterclaret]

What actions of the EU?

This all on us.

[Lowbankclaret]

I have been doing loads of research and posting some links on here, to get people alternative views and hopefully get links that support people alternate views.
Partly to get your views, see what evidence is out there to support either argument.
I am also trying to build up a set of questions for a meeting I am going to next week with two north west Brexit party MEP’s which has a Q and A session.

[If it be your will]

This is an interesting development:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... deal-right" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder if Corbyn knows he's finished anyway, so figures he might as well go down in a blaze of glory by saying what he really thinks about the EU? Maybe I should renew my membership after all.

[Lancasterclaret]

I have been doing loads of research and posting some links on here, to get people alternative views and hopefully get links that support people alternate views.
Partly to get your views, see what evidence is out there to support either argument.
I am also trying to build up a set of questions for a meeting I am going to next week with two north west Brexit party MEP’s which has a Q and A session.

Almost tempted to go to something like that just to see how much they really know about the EU.

That does sound like it will be an echo chamber sadly as Brexit Party MEPs do well when the audience is 100% Brexit, and really, really, really badly when it isn't

[Lowbankclaret]

What actions of the EU?

This all on us.

I kept out of the discussion, so missed most of what was said. But the Luxembourg incident was mentioned.

[Lowbankclaret]

Almost tempted to go to something like that just to see how much they really know about the EU.

That does sound like it will be an echo chamber sadly as Brexit Party MEPs do well when the audience is 100% Brexit, and really, really, really badly when it isn't

We are bound to disagree on that.

[If it be your will]

I have been doing loads of research and posting some links on here, to get people alternative views and hopefully get links that support people alternate views.
Partly to get your views, see what evidence is out there to support either argument.
I am also trying to build up a set of questions for a meeting I am going to next week with two north west Brexit party MEP’s which has a Q and A session.

If you really, really want the Brexit Party to turn heads, in a way that isn't just "We really want to leave the EU", they should look at a Universal Basic Income. If they adopted this, even in its most limited form, they would cause a genuine media storm.

[Lancasterclaret]

We are bound to disagree on that.

Sure, but it is inarguable that Brexit MEPs fold when actually asked to back up what they say.

That won't happen at a Brexit Party event.

[Spijed]

Yes and she attacked her core support.
When you look at the demographic of Tory voters, the age at which they have a majority is the over 55’s and she attacked pensioners. An act of complete stupidity
With Cummins around Boris is not going to make mistakes of that magnitude.

You guys may not like the opinion that Labour is imploding but the evidence around Burnley from people I have spoken to is just that.
One couple I spoke to, both Labour voters of the past, he has never voted anything but Labour (he is 60), but admits he cannot vote Labour under Corbyn. Nor can his wife. They are in a large quandary on who to vote for, but could be Brexit party depending on its manifesto.

Releasing ideas like the garden tax. If they are the party for the many not the few, how about reversing the tax changes of the Tories and bring many people back into the tax system.
43% of people now pay no tax on pay.

How about scrapping their invention of student loans that’s preventing loads of kids going to do degrees.

But those people who may vote for the Brexit party will never ever vote for the Conservatives in places like Burnley and if we've left the EU then who do people in Burnley vote for?

[JohnMcGreal]

I kept out of the discussion, so missed most of what was said. But the Luxembourg incident was mentioned.

So not the actions of the EU, then.

[Lancasterclaret]

I don't mind the foreigners because they don't mind a decent wage for a decent day's work, unlike some of the lazy Brit youngsters I see as an employer. But there's too many of them, that's the problem, and the NHS just can't cope. People talk about the automotive industry going under after Brexit, but that's a nonsense: a Jaguar Land Rover is iconic. When I started my business, I couldn't wait to drive one. Now Corbyn and his Marxist-Communist intellectuals want to take my success away from me. These people need a basic lesson at the university of life.

They don't pay attention to economic common sense. You don't run a business by borrowing more than your turnover. I pay a fair rate to my employees and they always tell me they like working for me. But we're not a charity, and sadly, I've had to lose people over the years. That's fair. These lefties would have me giving handouts. There's nothing fair about that.

The EU wants to turn us into a colony. We're the oldest democracy in the world and, unlike them, didn't roll over for the Nazis at the first opportunity. Who are they to tell us what to do? Farage speaks a lot of sense and he understands business. Business doesn't require fancy degrees, it requires hardwork - something these lefties will never understand because most of them are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and do doss degrees before getting a job from Mummy and Daddy.

When I bought my first house in the 70s, I'd worked hard for it. How many can say that now? Too many people in this country are afraid of a little graft IMO. They're more interested in blaming other people for their problems than they are in sorting them out for myself. When I had issues in my business, I sorted them out myself. A few phonecalls can go a long way, IF you're prepared to put the effort in.

Unlike many, I'm proud to be a citizen of this country, and proud to be a stereotype of the average UpTheClarets Tory.

Could not resist the classic reply

"Now who can argue with that? I think we're all indebted to HieronymousBoschHobs for clearly stating what needed to be said. I'm particularly glad that these lovely children were here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age."

[Lowbankclaret]

But those people who may vote for the Brexit party will never ever vote for the Conservatives in places like Burnley and if we've left the EU then who do people in Burnley vote for?

The Labour Party will re-invent itself once it understands the people are not behind it whilst momentum is pulling the strings.
Perhaps the party will split and create new type Labour and a Marist/communist Labour Party.

I agree on Burnley people not moving to the Tories.

The issue remains, Labour is losing many core voters and what’s surprised me is the lack of surge I was expecting for the LD after declaring they would stop Brexit and stay in the EU.

[Lowbankclaret]

If you really, really want the Brexit Party to turn heads, in a way that isn't just "We really want to leave the EU", they should look at a Universal Basic Income. If they adopted this, even in its most limited form, they would cause a genuine media storm.

When a BP member knocks on your door, mention that as 1 of your 3 main issues and it will be recorded on for consideration.

I will google and have read.

[Lowbankclaret]

First one on universal basic income not to positive.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/blog/universal-b ... GOEALw_wcB" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lowbankclaret]

Second one details many of the same issues of basic income.

Do you have a link to any more supportive arguments.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 72031.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[summitclaret]

If you really, really want the Brexit Party to turn heads, in a way that isn't just "We really want to leave the EU", they should look at a Universal Basic Income. If they adopted this, even in its most limited form, they would cause a genuine media storm.

Yeah add free drugs and booze for life and it would be a winner.

[RingoMcCartney]

dont know, you tell me why So you don't understand how the banks bail-out worked but you're happy to say the EU said that's fine.

You disappeared for quite a while off here following that This is obviously just another thing you've made up. I wonder whether you're really a fantasist who believes the stuff you make up or you just make stuff up in the hope that other people will believe it. It's a bit weird either way.

Why are remoaners obsessed with what was on the after the ballot paper. Yes, it is certainly just "remoaners" this concerns. There've certainly not been any leave supporters (cough *Ringo* cough) who've used the binary nature of the question to justify No Deal.

I've no idea why youd want to resuscitate the arguement that you previously lost!

Labour bailed the banks out. FACT

The eu did not intervene. FACT

Had the Tories tried to prevent the steel works folding it would have breached EU state aid law FACT.

You previously steamed in and said the above was "outright lies"

At the time , I posted 2 links showing what I was saying was accurate. 1 from the labour supporting Labour List website that interviewed a specialist who confirmed what I'd said. Another was a link that showed the government's own legal advisors said itd be against eu state aid rules.

I could go back and repost them if you like. But to be honest, I got a fair amount of satisfaction from proving your hysterical "outright lies " garbage to be just that. I suspect doing it for a 2nd time would be going down the diminishing returns road to be honest.

If you want to carry on with losing yesterday's arguement, fill yer boots, it fine by me!

[RingoMcCartney]

You accept that prices rose during the 40 odd years we've been in the Common Market/ European union.

Again, why do you just make stuff up? I clearly haven't accepted this.

Aggi, in a nutshell , you posted the yellow hammer link.

You highlighted where it said any price rises brought about by a no deal brexit would disproportionately affect the low paid.

I pointed out that during the 40 odd years of eu membership prices had risen.

What you're clearly trying, but failing miserably, to do. Is convince both me and yourself that if prices rise, if we leave the EU, it WILL affect the lowest paid disproportionately. But while we've been i the EU, price rises HAVEN'T affected the lowest paid disproportionately!!!!

Utterly utterly ridiculous !!!

[RingoMcCartney]

So you're saying that everything a political party is going to do for the next five years has to be in the manifesto? They can't react to the current situation, if it's not in the manifesto you can't do it?

You were the one clinging onto this mantra, that all remoaners and evangelical europhile zealots trot out. When democrats remind them that MPs are elected by their constituents on manifesto pledges. Which is the "they're our representatives not delegates , and they should act as they see fit"

So when I asked you whether or not youd find it acceptable if the majority of MPs " saw fit" not to hold a general election for 20 years, denying the People a voice.

You said

It wouldn't be acceptable

So basically when MPs , the majority of which, voted Remain , yet the majority of constituencies voted Leave. When the vast majority of MPs ( around 84% ) were elected on manifesto pledges that promised to respect the 2016 Peoples Vote. They can completely ignore their constituents and "do as they see fit" as far as you're concerned. Why ? Because you do agree with their democracy denying stance on Brexit!!

However, if they were betray their manifesto pledges and be at odds with the majority of what constituencies want and were "to do as they see fit" and act in a way you don't agree with. That "wouldn't be acceptable " !!!!


There's a special word for that aggi.



Hypocrisy.



Good effort!

[If it be your will]

Second one details many of the same issues of basic income.

Do you have a link to any more supportive arguments.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 72031.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ah, you're looking at this from the wrong direction. The first link is a lefty explaining to other fellow lefties why he thinks it's not a good idea (I could easily counter his objections, by the way). But this is all irrelevant for you and the Brexit Party anyway, because you would be approaching it from the right (touched on in your second link, but badly explained by the Indy).

Briefly, the right wing argument for a UBI rests on liberty, and its twin brother 'personal responsibility'.

It goes like this (I'll exaggerate it for the point of the explanation): Fine, life can be harsh, and sometimes unfortunate, but the current benefits system, with all its means testing and medical assessments, has created a mass of humanity unable to look after itself or take responsibility for themselves. Most people receiving benefits spend their lives pretending they can't get a job when really they just can't be bothered. Or people claiming they're too ill when really it's laziness, or a dreadful diet, or drinking too much. And because they're all lying, useless good-for-nothings, we have to spend a fortune monitoring them, assessing them, cajoling them into actually doing something useful for once, rather than scrounging benefits all day.

Rather than this farce, let's pay everyone the minimum required to live. If they spend it all on drugs, fine, they have to sleep on the streets then. That would be their own stupid fault. Pretending you're too ill to work? Well stop clogging up the GP clinics with your make-believe illnesses - we're paying you a basic income anyway, there's nothing to be gained from pretending you're ill anymore. And now that we're paying enough for you to live on, no questions asked, we can get rid of all these dreadful, market-distorting labour laws like gender equality, minimum wage, holiday entitlements and all that nonsense that just gets abused by the lazy anyway! We don't need these rights if we are paying you a basic income - if you don't want to work, don't, but if you do take a job, don't whinge about the conditions all the time. It's not as if you'd starve, you'd still get a basic income whatever happens. And a whole swathe of public sector staff becomes obsolete, with vast savings to be made. And the economy would be much more dynamic without being strangled to death with labour laws. And nobody would lose benefits if they got a job, because everyone gets them anyway, so more people would get a job.

That's the angle the Brexit Party would approach it from. Obviously, few people would explain it as obnoxiously as I just have, but equally, even the cuddliest of liberals would concede some of what I've just said is at least a little bit true. That's why a UBI is not really a Left/Right thing - it's either or both.

Does it make more sense why the BP might want to look at it now?