Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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Spijed
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:07 pm

AndyClaret wrote:With Labour tearing itself apart, the latest poll shows a 100 seat Tory majority.

And yet another poll which is much closer:

https://twitter.com/britainelects/statu ... 2299577350" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

martin_p
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:08 pm

If it be your will wrote:Ah, you're looking at this from the wrong direction. The first link is a lefty explaining to other fellow lefties why he thinks it's not a good idea (I could easily counter his objections, by the way). But this is all irrelevant for you and the Brexit Party anyway, because you would be approaching it from the right (touched on in your second link, but badly explained by the Indy).

Briefly, the right wing argument for a UBI rests on liberty, and its twin brother 'personal responsibility'.

It goes like this (I'll exaggerate it for the point of the explanation): Fine, life can be harsh, and sometimes unfortunate, but the current benefits system, with all its means testing and medical assessments, has created a mass of humanity unable to look after itself or take responsibility for themselves. Most people receiving benefits spend their lives pretending they can't get a job when really they just can't be bothered. Or people claiming they're too ill when really it's laziness, or a dreadful diet, or drinking too much. And because they're all lying, useless good-for-nothings, we have to spend a fortune monitoring them, assessing them, cajoling them into actually doing something useful for once, rather than scrounging benefits all day.

Rather than this farce, let's pay everyone the minimum required to live. If they spend it all on drugs, fine, they have to sleep on the streets then. That would be their own stupid fault. Pretending you're too ill to work? Well stop clogging up the GP clinics with your make-believe illnesses - we're paying you a basic income anyway, there's nothing to be gained from pretending you're ill anymore. And now that we're paying enough for you to live on, no questions asked, we can get rid of all these dreadful, market-distorting labour laws like gender equality, minimum wage, holiday entitlements and all that nonsense that just gets abused by the lazy anyway! We don't need these rights if we are paying you a basic income - if you don't want to work, don't, but if you do take a job, don't whinge about the conditions all the time. It's not as if you'd starve, you'd still get a basic income whatever happens. And a whole swathe of public sector staff becomes obsolete, with vast savings to be made. And the economy would be much more dynamic without being strangled to death with labour laws. And nobody would lose benefits if they got a job, because everyone gets them anyway, so more people would get a job.

That's the angle the Brexit Party would approach it from. Obviously, few people would explain it as obnoxiously as I just have, but equally, even the cuddliest of liberals would concede some of what I've just said is at least a little bit true. That's why a UBI is not really a Left/Right thing - it's either or both.

Does it make more sense why the BP might want to look at it now?
You’re going to have to explain how it transfers wealth from the poor to the rich to get Brexit Party attention.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:28 pm

EMILY THORNBERRY resigned from the Labour Shadow Cabinet in 2014 after she was accused of holding working-class voters in "contempt" by appearing to mock a family's home draped in England flags. Five years later, the Shadow Foreign Secretary had no issues with appearing at a People’s Vote rally dressed in an EU flag, insisting “this is what democracy looks like”.


You could not make it up!!!

The Liebour Party -

Previously know as the "working class party."








Now seen as the Islington Dinner Party.....
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Spijed
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:33 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:EMILY THORNBERRY resigned from the Labour Shadow Cabinet in 2014 after she was accused of holding working-class voters in "contempt" by appearing to mock a family's home draped in England flags. Five years later, the Shadow Foreign Secretary had no issues with appearing at a People’s Vote rally dressed in an EU flag, insisting “this is what democracy looks like”.


You could not make it up!!!

The Liebour Party -

Previously know as the "working class party."

Now seen as the Islington Dinner Party.....
Talking of lies, didn't you say you were once a member of the Labour party?

hmmm...

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:35 pm

Spijed wrote:Talking of lies, didn't you say you were once a member of the Labour party?

hmmm...
When it was the working class party.....

Spijed
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:36 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:When it was the working class party.....
Had even less chance of winning in those days though.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:39 pm

Spijed wrote:Had even less chance of winning in those days though.
Then, like now, I accepted a simple fact.

Democracy-

It means sometimes you lose.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:40 pm

MOTD 2 is on now.

Bigger fish to fry.....

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by If it be your will » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:49 pm

martin_p wrote:You’re going to have to explain how it transfers wealth from the poor to the rich to get Brexit Party attention.
That would be via the bit about taking a flame-thrower to workers' rights, after deeming them unnecessary in the presence of a UBI.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:37 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Then, like now, I accepted a simple fact.

Democracy-

It means sometimes you lose.
If that were the case then no-one in Labour would have rioted and gone on strike when Margaret Thatcher closed the pits or tried to bring in the Poll tax.

Were you happy to accept either pit closures and the poll tax because of democracy?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by TheFamilyCat » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:23 am

Spijed wrote:If that were the case then no-one in Labour would have rioted and gone on strike when Margaret Thatcher closed the pits or tried to bring in the Poll tax.

Were you happy to accept either pit closures and the poll tax because of democracy?
Don't ask Ringo tough questions. They make him disappear for a few days and this thread loses its comedy value.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:14 am

If it be your will wrote:That would be via the bit about taking a flame-thrower to workers' rights, after deeming them unnecessary in the presence of a UBI.
I would see a reduction in workers rights as a retrograde step.
Last edited by AndrewJB on Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Cryssys » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:24 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
You could not make it up!!!

The Liebour Party -

Previously know as the "working class party."

Now seen as the Islington Dinner Party.....


Whereas the privately educated, multi millionaires that constitute the Conservative party have the best interests of the working man at the core of everything they do I suppose?. In the eight years they have been in charge, they have supported the creeping privatisation of health and education services people rely on. They cut spending across the board, froze the pay of public sector workers and have presided over a long term reduction in real wages.

It's not all bad news though, they were able to reduces some taxes: corporation tax,inheritance tax and capital gains tax have all gone down. Not that I can see that benefiting many ordinary working people.

You may have issues with the labour party but don't ever believe that the Tories care about the working classes. All they want is your vote and once they have that they'll forget about you at best or screw you over at worst.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Cryssys » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:26 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:When it was the working class party.....

Why is it no longer the working class party? Because it doesn't support a hard brexit?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Cryssys » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:38 am

Ringo claims that the Labour Party is no longer represents the working classes but i have yet to see him present any evidence to support this.

With regard to policies to help ordinary people why not try these, all of which are taken from Labours 2015 manifesto

• Ban zero-hours contracts deemed to be "exploitative"
• Recruit an additional 1,000 border staff, paid for by a small charge on non-visa visitors to the UK
• Safeguard over 10,000 front line police officers over the next three years
• People working in public facing roles in the public sector will have to speak English
• "Cut the deficit every year and balance the books as soon as possible in the next Parliament"
• Bring back the 50p top income tax rate for those earning over £150,000
• End the non-dom rule that allows some wealthy UK residents to limit the tax they pay on earnings outside the country
• "Cut and then freeze" business rates
• Guarantee an apprenticeship for all school leavers who attain certain grades and "require any firm that gets a large government contract to
offer apprenticeships"
• Stop migrants claiming benefits until they have lived in the UK for two years
• Introduce a British Investment Bank
• Ensure all primary schools guarantee access to childcare from 08:00 to 18:00
• Double paternity leave to four weeks, with paternity pay increased by more than £100 a week
• Build at least 200,000 new homes a year by 2020 with "first priority for local first time buyers"
• Guarantee three-year housing tenancies with a "ceiling on excessive rent rises"
• Raising the minimum wage to more than £8 by October 2019
• Freezing rail fares for one year
• Protecting tax credits for working families so they rise with inflation
• Introducing a new National Primary Childcare Service, guaranteeing childcare from 08:00 to 18:00

The manifesto also pledges there will be no increase to the basic or higher rates of income tax, National Insurance or VAT.

I would say that all of the above are in the interests of the working man wouldn't you?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:00 am

Id be more concerned with our PM giving public money to some foreign bird he was most likely banging and taking her on his public office trade delegations than I would be of a pic of Emily Thornbury at a peoples vote rally dressed as an EU flag

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Cryssys » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:26 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:Id be more concerned with our PM giving public money to some foreign bird he was most likely banging and taking her on his public office trade delegations than I would be of a pic of Emily Thornbury at a peoples vote rally dressed as an EU flag
That would require someone to take a reasonable and rational view of things.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:29 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:Id be more concerned with our PM giving public money to some foreign bird he was most likely banging and taking her on his public office trade delegations than I would be of a pic of Emily Thornbury at a peoples vote rally dressed as an EU flag
Thats because you are a remianer traitor and you should know by know that Johnson can do whatever he wants as long as he delivers the Brexit that everyone who isn't a remainer traitor wants*

*don't bother telling people that their version of Brexit isn't shared by people you know, because, well, you know.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Cryssys » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:32 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:Id be more concerned with our PM giving public money to some foreign bird he was most likely banging and taking her on his public office trade delegations than I would be of a pic of Emily Thornbury at a peoples vote rally dressed as an EU flag

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/excl ... -5v0clbmmj" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Strange that no one has seen fit to mention this. Can't help thinking some posters might have drawn it to our attention had it been Jeremy Corbyn.

Boris Johnson: a man of honesty and integrity, a man you can trust, a man of the people.
Last edited by Cryssys on Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:38 am

The echo chamber has limited capacity and their audience aren't renowned for their ability to look beyond or even question it

Spijed
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:34 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Don't ask Ringo tough questions. They make him disappear for a few days and this thread loses its comedy value.

Indeed. He's yet to answer ANY question

aggi
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:16 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi aggi, only "surprisingly" by the Lib Dems if you weren't paying attention to politics 10+ years ago. Lib Dems wanted a referendum on the Lisbon treaty (2007, I think). Tony Blair's Labour also "promised" a referendum in their election literature back then.
Yes, I meant more surprising in the current context with their stance of overturn Article 50, no second referendum.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by If it be your will » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:22 pm

AndrewJB wrote:I would see a reduction in workers rights as a retrograde step.
Me too. I was just suggesting how the Brexit Party might sell it to their financial backers, that's all.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:29 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -to-friend" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It just stinks of entitlement. That's how he was as a mayor, and how he's acting as a PM.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... den-bridge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:57 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:I've no idea why youd want to resuscitate the arguement that you previously lost!

Labour bailed the banks out. FACT

The eu did not intervene. FACT

Had the Tories tried to prevent the steel works folding it would have breached EU state aid law FACT.

You previously steamed in and said the above was "outright lies"

At the time , I posted 2 links showing what I was saying was accurate. 1 from the labour supporting Labour List website that interviewed a specialist who confirmed what I'd said. Another was a link that showed the government's own legal advisors said itd be against eu state aid rules.

I could go back and repost them if you like. But to be honest, I got a fair amount of satisfaction from proving your hysterical "outright lies " garbage to be just that. I suspect doing it for a 2nd time would be going down the diminishing returns road to be honest.

If you want to carry on with losing yesterday's arguement, fill yer boots, it fine by me!
Excellent, we're now onto writing FACT in capital letters in the hope that people will believe the stuff you've made up.

The eu did not intervene. FACT

This would be more convincing if, when I'd asked about the details of the bail out process, you hadn't said "dont know, you tell me why". You clearly have no idea how the bailout worked but, as you don't understand it, you're happy to just make stuff up like the EU did not intervene

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:00 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:You were the one clinging onto this mantra, that all remoaners and evangelical europhile zealots trot out. When democrats remind them that MPs are elected by their constituents on manifesto pledges. Which is the "they're our representatives not delegates , and they should act as they see fit"

So when I asked you whether or not youd find it acceptable if the majority of MPs " saw fit" not to hold a general election for 20 years, denying the People a voice.

You said



So basically when MPs , the majority of which, voted Remain , yet the majority of constituencies voted Leave. When the vast majority of MPs ( around 84% ) were elected on manifesto pledges that promised to respect the 2016 Peoples Vote. They can completely ignore their constituents and "do as they see fit" as far as you're concerned. Why ? Because you do agree with their democracy denying stance on Brexit!!

However, if they were betray their manifesto pledges and be at odds with the majority of what constituencies want and were "to do as they see fit" and act in a way you don't agree with. That "wouldn't be acceptable " !!!!


There's a special word for that aggi.



Hypocrisy.



Good effort! ;)
You seem to be skipping the bit where many of them were elected on a manifesto of "we reject no-deal".

You really need to decide if you're complaining about MPs breaking manifesto promises or sticking by them.

I think everyone knows what you're really complaining about is MPs not doing what you want them to do.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:01 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Aggi, in a nutshell , you posted the yellow hammer link.

You highlighted where it said any price rises brought about by a no deal brexit would disproportionately affect the low paid.

I pointed out that during the 40 odd years of eu membership prices had risen.

What you're clearly trying, but failing miserably, to do. Is convince both me and yourself that if prices rise, if we leave the EU, it WILL affect the lowest paid disproportionately. But while we've been i the EU, price rises HAVEN'T affected the lowest paid disproportionately!!!!

Utterly utterly ridiculous !!!


:lol: :lol: :lol:
So you haven't got any evidence to show that prices have risen in real terms. I thought not.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndyClaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:53 pm

Breaking news.... Labour decides it likes the taste of splinters.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 694652603b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:36 pm

If it be your will wrote:Ah, you're looking at this from the wrong direction. The first link is a lefty explaining to other fellow lefties why he thinks it's not a good idea (I could easily counter his objections, by the way). But this is all irrelevant for you and the Brexit Party anyway, because you would be approaching it from the right (touched on in your second link, but badly explained by the Indy).

Briefly, the right wing argument for a UBI rests on liberty, and its twin brother 'personal responsibility'.

It goes like this (I'll exaggerate it for the point of the explanation): Fine, life can be harsh, and sometimes unfortunate, but the current benefits system, with all its means testing and medical assessments, has created a mass of humanity unable to look after itself or take responsibility for themselves. Most people receiving benefits spend their lives pretending they can't get a job when really they just can't be bothered. Or people claiming they're too ill when really it's laziness, or a dreadful diet, or drinking too much. And because they're all lying, useless good-for-nothings, we have to spend a fortune monitoring them, assessing them, cajoling them into actually doing something useful for once, rather than scrounging benefits all day.

Rather than this farce, let's pay everyone the minimum required to live. If they spend it all on drugs, fine, they have to sleep on the streets then. That would be their own stupid fault. Pretending you're too ill to work? Well stop clogging up the GP clinics with your make-believe illnesses - we're paying you a basic income anyway, there's nothing to be gained from pretending you're ill anymore. And now that we're paying enough for you to live on, no questions asked, we can get rid of all these dreadful, market-distorting labour laws like gender equality, minimum wage, holiday entitlements and all that nonsense that just gets abused by the lazy anyway! We don't need these rights if we are paying you a basic income - if you don't want to work, don't, but if you do take a job, don't whinge about the conditions all the time. It's not as if you'd starve, you'd still get a basic income whatever happens. And a whole swathe of public sector staff becomes obsolete, with vast savings to be made. And the economy would be much more dynamic without being strangled to death with labour laws. And nobody would lose benefits if they got a job, because everyone gets them anyway, so more people would get a job.

That's the angle the Brexit Party would approach it from. Obviously, few people would explain it as obnoxiously as I just have, but equally, even the cuddliest of liberals would concede some of what I've just said is at least a little bit true. That's why a UBI is not really a Left/Right thing - it's either or both.

Does it make more sense why the BP might want to look at it now?
Discussed this today with libertarian friend, he has never seen any positive reports on this subject.

I am not sure it’s for today but this might become a more looked at thing in the future.

Once automation really takes off I struggle to see how society will function.

I will continue to read more but I do think the overall cost of everyone getting enough is almost impossible to tax taxpayers enough to pay for it.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:42 pm

martin_p wrote:You’re going to have to explain how it transfers wealth from the poor to the rich to get Brexit Party attention.
So you have people from all walks of life joining the BP. The majority of parliamentary candidates have never stood for public office. They range from housewife’s to NHS consultants.

I don’t think you have taken the time to look at them.
But nothing I say will change that, you will just follow the lemmings.

If you took the time to research or listen to some of the parties people I would have so much more time for people.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:49 pm

Cryssys wrote:Whereas the privately educated, multi millionaires that constitute the Conservative party have the best interests of the working man at the core of everything they do I suppose?. In the eight years they have been in charge, they have supported the creeping privatisation of health and education services people rely on. They cut spending across the board, froze the pay of public sector workers and have presided over a long term reduction in real wages.

It's not all bad news though, they were able to reduces some taxes: corporation tax,inheritance tax and capital gains tax have all gone down. Not that I can see that benefiting many ordinary working people.

You may have issues with the labour party but don't ever believe that the Tories care about the working classes. All they want is your vote and once they have that they'll forget about you at best or screw you over at worst.
Corbyn went to a private school.
Diane Abbott’s kids are in private schooling. Funnily enough she refused to come on camera this morning when asked after voting to close private schools.
Practise what you preach me thinks.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:54 pm

Cryssys wrote:https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/excl ... -5v0clbmmj

Strange that no one has seen fit to mention this. Can't help thinking some posters might have drawn it to our attention had it been Jeremy Corbyn.

Boris Johnson: a man of honesty and integrity, a man you can trust, a man of the people.

Whilst we are debating Brexit.
How many on here are supporting Boris. I suggest we mostly agree he is not honest or a man you can trust.

Never voted Tory, but the only alternative is the Brexit party and I think it’s in with a chance of returning an MP to parliament.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by summitclaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:04 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Whilst we are debating Brexit.
How many on here are supporting Boris. I suggest we mostly agree he is not honest or a man you can trust.

Never voted Tory, but the only alternative is the Brexit party and I think it’s in with a chance of returning an MP to parliament.
Depends where you live. In Burnley if you want to leave you have to vote for the BP. Do so even if like me you want a meaningful deal, as the BP won't get enough seats to form a government, but it will help stop remain parties such as the LD's and labour from getting into power and cancelling Brexit.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:07 pm

If it be your will wrote:Me too. I was just suggesting how the Brexit Party might sell it to their financial backers, that's all.

So the way I as a member am being told this is all going to work is ground up policies.

So when doorstepping people issues will be recorded electronically and these will be analysed to come up with popular policies.

Now this has to be seen in practice.
If I mean if this is done in practice, I cannot see loads of people asking for a reduction in workers rights so it should not become a policy of the BP.

Now the proof of that has yet to be seen.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AlargeClaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:19 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Whilst we are debating Brexit.
How many on here are supporting Boris. I suggest we mostly agree he is not honest or a man you can trust.

Never voted Tory, but the only alternative is the Brexit party and I think it’s in with a chance of returning an MP to parliament.
Boris is a politician , a bit of a cad true but I generally think he’s a decent sort , though his heart has never been in no deal , he’s nothing more than “ soft” right and a million miles away from the “ facist pig” the left have people believe . To keep Corbyn out he’s defo a better option that Farage’s ego party

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:29 pm

aggi wrote:Excellent, we're now onto writing FACT in capital letters in the hope that people will believe the stuff you've made up.

The eu did not intervene. FACT

This would be more convincing if, when I'd asked about the details of the bail out process, you hadn't said "dont know, you tell me why". You clearly have no idea how the bailout worked but, as you don't understand it, you're happy to just make stuff up like the EU did not intervene
Well as far as I understand it.

There was a run on Northern rock as banks admitted they were in trouble.

I bought £1000 of Northern rock thinking the gov would not let it go bust. Wrong £1000 gone.

I think HBOS were next who I had loads of shares in, think there was some insider dealing as RBS bought it out. Wrongly as it turns out.

Realising RBS and Barclays were next on the going bust list the Gov stepped in and took a 75% stake in RBS with public money and I think a 30% stake in Barclays.

The treasury then stepped in to ease markets as the whole banking system would have collapsed worldwide.

I bought Barclays at 80p, gov sold their stake in Barclays, I sold Barclays shares at £3. Recovering my loss in Northern Rock

I still have loads of shares in RBS, most I got as inheritance from my grandad as HBOS shares which were £8-9 at time and are still worth about 60p today.

The EU did not step in to stop this as it would have been a worldwide catastrophe but it was against EU rules.

What’s more worrying is that the actions of the banks that led to this are still carrying on today.

The next time the world will not be able to afford to bail out the banks.

All the Tory austerity was caused by the banks, don’t ever forget that.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:36 pm

AndyClaret wrote:Breaking news.... Labour decides it likes the taste of splinters.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 694652603b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes I watched it.

Several thousand Labours voters just switched sides after that.
Then they are chanting like a bunch of kids“ oh Jeremy Corbyn “ when most Labour voters will not vote for his party whilst he is in charge.


Bring on a GE, Labour will be wondering what happened the day after as they are currently deluded and completely misjudging the electorate.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:48 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Several thousand Labours voters just switched sides after that.
But doesn't it all hinge on whether we leave with no-deal or not as to whether they switch to the Brexit Party?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by If it be your will » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:58 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Discussed this today with libertarian friend, he has never seen any positive reports on this subject.

I am not sure it’s for today but this might become a more looked at thing in the future.

Once automation really takes off I struggle to see how society will function.

I will continue to read more but I do think the overall cost of everyone getting enough is almost impossible to tax taxpayers enough to pay for it.
Ok, it's not for the BXP. It was always a long shot.

(Before I go, though, just an idea of the cost: if you took the cost of DLA, incapacity benefit, housing benefit and tax credits (£80 billion) and shared it out amongst all working age adults, it would be about £2,300/year each. If you removed personal tax allowances, that adds about another £120 billion. £200 billion is about £5,700 a year for each adult. Of all the debatable issues surrounding a UBI, of which there are many, the cost of it isn't actually that big a hurdle. People assume it would be, but it isn't.)

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by If it be your will » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:07 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:So the way I as a member am being told this is all going to work is ground up policies.

So when doorstepping people issues will be recorded electronically and these will be analysed to come up with popular policies.

Now this has to be seen in practice.
If I mean if this is done in practice, I cannot see loads of people asking for a reduction in workers rights so it should not become a policy of the BP.

Now the proof of that has yet to be seen.
There's no escaping the fact most of the funding for the Brexit Party will always come from wealthy people (unless they develop a mass membership like Labour, which doesn't look likely at the moment). These backers have their own interests. If the grassroots suggest policies that will hurt the Brexit Party's backers, they will pull their funding. So policies will have to please enough rich people in order to keep the party afloat.

Unless, of course, the Brexit Party are to be funded on a charitable basis by philanthropic rich people, which seems to me so extraordinarily unlikely that it might as well be discounted completely.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:33 pm

Spijed wrote:But doesn't it all hinge on whether we leave with no-deal or not as to whether they switch to the Brexit Party?
We won’t leave before the next GE.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by bfcmik » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:37 pm

The Irish government has made a statement today warning that up to 40000 drivers resident in the Republic but holding UK driving licences, including those from Northern Ireland, will be driving illegally should they drive after a no-deal Brexit. Apparently over 30,000 of the 70+thousand UK citizens who permanently reside in Ireland have already changed to Irish EU licences. It costs 55 euros to change over!

You will still be able to drive in the Republic on a UK issued licence if you are a visitor on holiday or on business but not if your main residence is there.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:38 pm

If it be your will wrote:There's no escaping the fact most of the funding for the Brexit Party will always come from wealthy people (unless they develop a mass membership like Labour, which doesn't look likely at the moment). These backers have their own interests. If the grassroots suggest policies that will hurt the Brexit Party's backers, they will pull their funding. So policies will have to please enough rich people in order to keep the party afloat.

Unless, of course, the Brexit Party are to be funded on a charitable basis by philanthropic rich people, which seems to me so extraordinarily unlikely that it might as well be discounted completely.
None of us can predict the future.

Let’s see what happens.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:49 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:We won’t leave before the next GE.
Hope so, as that would surely mean the end of Borris with not meeting the 31st Oct deadline.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:57 pm

Spijed wrote:Hope so, as that would surely mean the end of Borris with not meeting the 31st Oct deadline.

Not sure your understanding his strategy .

The UK go for the underdog who everyone is against.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:09 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Not sure your understanding his strategy .

The UK go for the underdog who everyone is against.
But hasn't he said we'll definitely leave the EU by the 31st, deal or no deal (do or die)?

It won't look good for him if we haven't left at that point.

And as you suggested if we are still be in the EU when we have a GE the earliest we can have one is the last week in November.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:23 pm

Spijed wrote:But hasn't he said we'll definitely leave the EU by the 31st, deal or no deal (do or die)?

It won't look good for him if we haven't left at that point.

And as you suggested if we are still be in the EU when we have a GE the earliest we can have one is the last week in November.
Now come on, I have met you and your an intelligent guy.

No matter what he says, Parliament is not going to let him get out of the EU.

Parliament is a remain parliament and hence they will stop him.

That will play into his hands and the support of the public in my view.

My view is they will pay at the ballot box, but I may be wrong.

However I think not.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by bfcmik » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:40 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Now come on, I have met you and your an intelligent guy.

No matter what he says, Parliament is not going to let him get out of the EU.

Parliament is a remain parliament and hence they will stop him.

That will play into his hands and the support of the public in my view.

My view is they will pay at the ballot box, but I may be wrong.

However I think not.
The voting public is split somewhere around the 50% mark - if both sides go for tactical voting will it all balance out?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:44 pm

bfcmik wrote:The voting public is split somewhere around the 50% mark - if both sides go for tactical voting will it all balance out?
All I know is that whatever happens, just under half of the country are going to be ******* furious, which will just make it worse.

We've ****** it, and all for blue passports and some overt racism.

Cheers everyone.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:49 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:All I know is that whatever happens, just under half of the country are going to be ******* furious, which will just make it worse.

We've ****** it, and all for blue passports and some overt racism.

Cheers everyone.

Yep there we go pull out the R card.

When you run out of real arguments, just call them racists.
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