Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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RingoMcCartney
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:53 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Yes, but the actual ruling is nothing to do with Brexit.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You can claim a victory if you want, but the only reason this came about is that a government with no majority tried to shut down parliament so it couldn't be scrutinised.

Brexit is linked in only that is where we are and that is why we are where we are at.

If it's "nothing to do with Brexit, " then youd better get down to london and tell Soubrey, Blackford Lucas and the rest of the evangelical europhile Remoaners , its nowt to do with brexit. Who are almost doing an embarrassing dance of joy! :lol:

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:54 am

Spijed wrote:So you don't think an election can change that?

How can a general election be rigged if enough people in each seat vote for either a Brexit MP or a MP who wants to leave?
If 26% of the electorate vote Conservatives
&
A further 26% of the electorate vote for the Brexit Party
&
36% vote Liberal Democrat
12% labour
Lid dems would by our system likely get a majority of seats and Revoke article 50
That’s how

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:55 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:If it's "nothing to do with Brexit, " then youd better get down to london and tell Soubrey, Blackford Lucas and the rest of the evangelical europhile Remoaners , its nowt to do with brexit. Who are almost doing an embarrassing dance of joy! :lol:
Johnson said proroguing parliament had nothing to do with brexit.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:55 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:If it's "nothing to do with Brexit, " then youd better get down to london and tell Soubrey, Blackford Lucas and the rest of the evangelical europhile Remoaners , its nowt to do with brexit. Who are almost doing an embarrassing dance of joy! :lol:
Already answered that on a reply Ringo.

You want to pretend this all about Brexit, then that is 100% your perogative and I can see why you think that.

But this case is about far more than that, which is why so many parliamentarians backed it and crucially, why it was ruled unanimously 11-0.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:56 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm still going to say

"Good luck with that"

*Cheers for the heads up bleeding!
Thought you’d unilaterally decided to stay in the EU
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:56 am

Expect to see around a 2 or 3% increase in Boris's poll ratings in the next few weeks.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:57 am

BleedingClaret wrote:Thought you’d unilaterally decided to stay in the EU
I know, thats why I changed it!

I'm remain if the deal can't be reached though
Last edited by Lancasterclaret on Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:57 am

BleedingClaret wrote:If 26% of the electorate vote Conservatives
&
A further 26% of the electorate vote for the Brexit Party
&
36% vote Liberal Democrat
12% labour
Lid dems would by our system likely get a majority of seats and Revoke article 50
That’s how
What's stopping the Brexit party not standing in unwinnable seats down south and the Conservatives up north if they get their act together?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:00 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Already answered that on a reply Ringo.

You want to pretend this all about Brexit, then that is 100% your perogative and I can see why you think that.

But this case is about far more than that, which is why so many parliamentarians backed it and crucially, why it was ruled unanimously 11-0.
You haven't answered it.

All you've done is attempt to kid yourself!

A blind man on a galloping horse can see it's about Brexit and the Establishments refusal to accept the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed.









Remember, you can't kid a kidder! ;)

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:01 pm

This is very true btw

"Raise a glass to the rule of law, which is bigger than where you stand on Brexit."

Thats what we should all be pleased about.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:01 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:You haven't answered it.

All you've done is attempt to kid yourself!

A blind man on a galloping horse can see it's about Brexit and the Establishments refusal to accept the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed.









Remember, you can't kid a kidder! ;)
So you’re admitting Johnson prorogued parliament because of Brexit?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:01 pm

If it be your will wrote:I'm glad I've found someone else that thinks 'no deal' should definitely be listed as an option in any future referendum.
Dont 100% agree. I think if we have a GE it depends on the outcome.

For example if Johnson runs on a mandate to leave on his current terms with No Deal being a likely outcome and he gets a massive majority as much as I'd hate it and speak up against it he would have every right to get the Benn Bill reversed and take us out with No Deal without a referendum at all.

Likewise if Labour campaigned on a mandate to negotiate a deal and then have a referendum on that deal versus remain providing they get a good majority for this then to me it would be democratic for them to leave off remain.

If as I expect we end up with a hung parliament then yes for me we should go back to the people with at least 3 and if possible 4 options. Remain, No Deal, CU style negotiated deal and possibly scope for May's deal to be tweaked.

The big problem lies with how does Parliament work together to engage the EU to be able to negotiate these options.

In summary I see it that the GE will determine if we end up with a Tory / BP majority who will just push through a No Deal if the EU dont concede entirely to their terms or we will see a Soft Brexit / Leave majority who will then negotiate a new deal and put it to the people with just the options of the new deal and Remain

Edit: Just to be clear cos I waffled a lot my preference would be to take the time to negotiate a CU deal and then put Remain, CU deal and No Deal on the ballot paper for a second ref using the ranked voting method
Last edited by Devils_Advocate on Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:02 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:You haven't answered it.

All you've done is attempt to kid yourself!

A blind man on a galloping horse can see it's about Brexit and the Establishments refusal to accept the largest single expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed.









Remember, you can't kid a kidder! ;)
Its not, and though I'm not surprised you are talking that view, you are still wrong.

Just to confirm, you think this judgement is about Brexit?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:03 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:If 26% of the electorate vote Conservatives
&
A further 26% of the electorate vote for the Brexit Party
&
36% vote Liberal Democrat
12% labour
Lid dems would by our system likely get a majority of seats and Revoke article 50
That’s how
If you're campaigning for PR, you have my support.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by android » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:05 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Yes, but the actual ruling is nothing to do with Brexit.

You can claim a victory if you want, but the only reason this came about is that a government with no majority tried to shut down parliament so it couldn't be scrutinised.

Brexit is linked in only that is where we are and that is why we are where we are at.
Eh - what victory? Just pointing out that the Supreme Court made it clear that the ruling had a lot to do with Brexit so not sure why you wish to maintain otherwise.

Whether it's good or bad I don't know - good for lawyers I reckon! It is going to be used as ammo for the view that the establishment simply will not allow Brexit to happen. Establishment 11 People 0 and all that. But who knows.

What surprises me is that there was no reference to what parliament has already done since the prorogation decision by the PM - namely the Bill to stop Brexit (with no deal). What will Parliament actually do on Brexit if parliament is reconvened, as they seem to have already done the one and only thing they can agree on?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:06 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Already answered that on a reply Ringo.

You want to pretend this all about Brexit, then that is 100% your perogative and I can see why you think that.

But this case is about far more than that, which is why so many parliamentarians backed it and crucially, why it was ruled unanimously 11-0.
It's as if you want to pick and choose what you do actually answer!!!

On the reason why Thomas Cook folded you claimed
Lancasterclaret wrote: Because less people are travelling because of Brexit uncertainty.
You've been asked repeatedly to back up this europhile claim .


Go on. Have a go!


Try answering Lancasterclaret!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:08 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:It's as if you want to pick and choose what you do actually answer!!!

On the reason why Thomas Cook folded you claimed



You've been asked repeatedly to back up this europhile claim .


Go on. Have a go!


Try answering Lancasterclaret!
Did Johnson lie when he said proroguing parliament wasn't about brexit?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:12 pm

AndrewJB wrote:If you're campaigning for PR, you have my support.
There will likely be a vote on the electoral system
PR will poll 52% of the vote
but the legislation will be defeated in a Parliament elected under the current system and supported by the House of Lords (so proud) and the judiciary

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:13 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Oh dear, John Bercow will probably have to cut short his very very lucrative tour, telling the world how fabulous he is!!
Man of the year and after today we seem to have found his rightful Prom Queen

Image

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:13 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its not, and though I'm not surprised you are talking that view, you are still wrong.

Just to confirm, you think this judgement is about Brexit?
Now I know you see yourself as the message board political behemoth. However, when the likes of Soubrey, Benn, Blackford, Lucas, Greive and Campbell are popping the champagne corks it's a bit of a give away!

Keep trying to kid yourself!!


The more you do it the more silly you look. And the message board political crown that you placed upon your own inflated head , slips just that little bit more!!


:lol: :lol:

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:14 pm

android wrote:Eh - what victory? Just pointing out that the Supreme Court made it clear that the ruling had a lot to do with Brexit so not sure why you wish to maintain otherwise.

Whether it's good or bad I don't know - good for lawyers I reckon! It is going to be used as ammo for the view that the establishment simply will not allow Brexit to happen. Establishment 11 People 0 and all that. But who knows.

What surprises me is that there was no reference to what parliament has already done since the prorogation decision by the PM - namely the Bill to stop Brexit (with no deal). What will Parliament actually do on Brexit if parliament is reconvened, as they seem to have already done the one and only thing they can agree on?
Sorry, used the wrong word, and I thought I tried to explain it better further down my tweet.

I have no idea where we go from here, certainly for Johnson.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:14 pm

claret2018 wrote:The result of the referendum was honoured, this is what leaving the EU looks like in reality. The fact that you were lied to about it being easy doesn’t change that.
No I voted to leave
Nothing has changed

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:14 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Now I know you see yourself as the message board political behemoth. However, when the likes of Soubrey, Benn, Blackford, Lucas, Greive and Campbell are popping the champagne corks it's a bit of a give away!

Keep trying to kid yourself!!


The more you do it the more silly you look. And the message board political crown that you placed upon your own inflated head , slips just that little bit more!!


:lol: :lol:
Oh bless

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:15 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Did Johnson lie when he said proroguing parliament wasn't about brexit?

Only he will truly know.


I doubt a bunch of No Marks on a footy message board (me included) can ever really know .

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:17 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Oh bless

On the reason why Thomas Cook folded you claimed
Lancasterclaret wrote: Because less people are travelling because of Brexit uncertainty.
Bless me with something to back up your claim your eminence!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:19 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:On the reason why Thomas Cook folded you claimed



Bless me with something to back up your claim your eminence!
The most momentous day in UK political history and your obsession with me is your prime motivation?

Look if you want to **** me, I'm happily married and I'm 100% sure you are not my type.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by quoonbeatz » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:20 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:The liberal elite are slowly but surely getting their way.
Better them than the illiberal elite who are currently in government.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:20 pm

If it be your will wrote:I'm glad I've found someone else that thinks 'no deal' should definitely be listed as an option in any future referendum.
I think many think it should be (although a lot of them probably think it would be a good idea so we can answer once and for all whether there is a mandate for No Deal which I suspect there wouldn't be).

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Walton » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:22 pm

Just seen this from Michael Crick

"I’m puzzled. Brexiteers are upset with the Supreme Court judgement. Yet the Government insisted prorogation was nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit. So how can the decision to overturn prorogation harm Brexit?"
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:25 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:The most momentous day in UK political history and your obsession with me is your prime motivation?

Look if you want to **** me, I'm happily married and I'm 100% sure you are not my type.

I little less flattering yourself and a little more backing up of europhile claims

Lancasterclaret wrote: Because less people are travelling because of Brexit uncertainty.
Just take a moment to dismount the high horse and produce some figures.

:D

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:26 pm

Spijed wrote:What's stopping the Brexit party not standing in unwinnable seats down south and the Conservatives up north if they get their act together?
In principle nothing
But in reality the Cons want to maintain the equilibrium of 2 Party Politics more than anything else

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:28 pm

quoonbeatz wrote:Better them than the illiberal elite who are currently in government.

And yet those that want to ignore the largest expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed, refuse to flush out the "illiberal elite currently in government," by a having a general election!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:31 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:I little less flattering yourself and a little more backing up of europhile claims




Just take a moment to dismount the high horse and produce some figures.

:D
Not flattering myself

Genuinely curious why you've gone back 24 hours when you've have so many other questions to answer about your stance on today's judgement?

(I mean, I'm not really, you are so obvious avoiding answering any questions because it always results in you contradicting yourself)

(and don't take it personally either, lots and lots and lots of eminent Brexiteers have all fallen into the same trap this morning and have shown themselves up)

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by summitclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:31 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Dont 100% agree. I think if we have a GE it depends on the outcome.

For example if Johnson runs on a mandate to leave on his current terms with No Deal being a likely outcome and he gets a massive majority as much as I'd hate it and speak up against it he would have every right to get the Benn Bill reversed and take us out with No Deal without a referendum at all.

Likewise if Labour campaigned on a mandate to negotiate a deal and then have a referendum on that deal versus remain providing they get a good majority for this then to me it would be democratic for them to leave off remain.

If as I expect we end up with a hung parliament then yes for me we should go back to the people with at least 3 and if possible 4 options. Remain, No Deal, CU style negotiated deal and possibly scope for May's deal to be tweaked.

The big problem lies with how does Parliament work together to engage the EU to be able to negotiate these options.

In summary I see it that the GE will determine if we end up with a Tory / BP majority who will just push through a No Deal if the EU dont concede entirely to their terms or we will see a Soft Brexit / Leave majority who will then negotiate a new deal and put it to the people with just the options of the new deal and Remain

Edit: Just to be clear cos I waffled a lot my preference would be to take the time to negotiate a CU deal and then put Remain, CU deal and No Deal on the ballot paper for a second ref using the ranked voting method
I could not support any of those options like I suspect most leavers. 2 are remain in all but name and no deal is ott. You keep leaving ft deal off your list. Why?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Walton » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:31 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:I little less flattering yourself and a little more backing up of europhile claims




Just take a moment to dismount the high horse and produce some figures.

:D
7% fewer overseas visits by Brits in June 2019 compared to June 2018, according to the latest figures produced by the ONS
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:33 pm

Farage at least accepts the decision

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status ... 2045029376" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(well, sort of!)

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:33 pm

Government of National unity eh?
That’ll be a proud proud day
It may hold a majority of MP’s in Parliament
MP’s that are avoiding a GE cos they know they don’t have the support of their electorate

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by quoonbeatz » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:33 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:And yet those that want to ignore the largest expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed, refuse to flush out the "illiberal elite currently in government," by a having a general election!
Plenty of time for that.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:34 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:There will likely be a vote on the electoral system
PR will poll 52% of the vote
but the legislation will be defeated in a Parliament elected under the current system and supported by the House of Lords (so proud) and the judiciary
I can't imagine many Tory supporters voting for PR, but it would get the support of most LibDems and Greens, and probably a lot of Labour supporters too.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:35 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Farage at least accepts the decision

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status ... 2045029376" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(well, sort of!)
Prime minister Farage to you
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:36 pm

summitclaret wrote:I could not support any of those options like I suspect most leavers. 2 are remain in all but name and no deal is ott. You keep leaving ft deal off your list. Why?
Define to me what you mean by FT deal cos I did say im open for a 4th option which is more in line with what the hardline Brexiteers want providing it is feasible?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:36 pm

AndrewJB wrote:I can't imagine many Tory supporters voting for PR, but it would get the support of most LibDems and Greens, and probably a lot of Labour supporters too.
2 party politics serves the aims of so many established organisations so it won’t happen.
The me to you movement

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Hipper » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:39 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Did Johnson lie when he said proroguing parliament wasn't about brexit?
Of course he did.

Whilst I'm pretty sure the people that brought this case did so for Brexit reasons, that is not what the court decision was about.

It was obvious what Johnson was doing and he's been quite rightly told it was wrong. Whilst I want us out of the EU this is not the way to do it. In some ways I was hoping he would get away with it because it seemed to offer us the only chance of moving on.

Currently the government can't do anything and Parliament don't want to.

Interesting times and as everyone is asking, where do we go from here?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:40 pm

Hipper wrote:Of course he did.

Whilst I'm pretty sure the people that brought this case did so for Brexit reasons, that is not what the court decision was about.

It was obvious what Johnson was doing and he's been quite rightly told it was wrong. Whilst I want us out of the EU this is not the way to do it. In some ways I was hoping he would get away with it because it seemed to offer us the only chance of moving on.

Currently the government can't do anything and Parliament don't want to.

Interesting times and as everyone is asking, where do we go from here?
To all Brexiteers on here, that is how you do it.

Thank you Hipper for nailing it.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:41 pm

If we don’t leave on Halloween
Then I have an idea for Bonfire night

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:44 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Man of the year and after today we seem to have found his rightful Prom Queen

Image
They should award them MBEs, heroes of the people.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by TheFamilyCat » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:44 pm

I see Ringo's busy "schooling" again.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by summitclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:47 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Define to me what you mean by FT deal cos I did say im open for a 4th option which is more in line with what the hardline Brexiteers want providing it is feasible?
I think you know very well what a free trade deal is.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:47 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:I see Ringo's busy "schooling" again.
On the day of another crushing defeat.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:49 pm

summitclaret wrote:I think you know very well what a free trade deal is.
I think the days of blithely saying stuff like "we'll just have an FTA" are well behind us.

What exactly do you mean by an FTA?

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