Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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martin_p
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:52 pm

aggi wrote:I'm not sure whether you're entirely missing the point or don't understand it.

To repeat what I posted earlier As it is there's nothing to stop the MPs voting for another election and Johnson going "Oh, you know that election we talked about having on 14th October, now that you've voted it's going to be 14th November instead. By the way, whilst Parliament is dissolved for an election we'll be leaving the EU with no deal".

Why would any of the parties opt to have an election now when there is the risk of the above happening? It's not like Johnson has proved himself to be honest and trustworthy so far.
And Corbyn has again today reiterated his desire for a general election as soon as no deal is avoided. This from a man who apparently doesn’t want a general election.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:54 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:But Parliament isnt the government. It doesn't matter if its 0.00001%, the majority party create a government, which sets the agenda and their goals. If Parliament isnt happy with the government, fine no problem, there are long established means and ways of showing that. Have a vote of no confidence, have a call for a GE. But what is taking place here has nothing to do with that. The same people complaining about prorogation, are the same people unwilling to fight a GE.
You're not stupid, I dont have to tell you why, because you and everybody else knows the answer. Whichever way you look at it, whichever side of Brexit you sit, it is the biggest slap in the face for democracy the people of this country have ever faced.
I hope, pray, and believe, that when we do get the chance to enter a polling booth, these bastards get the kicking from the electorate they deserve.
This issue is or should, be completely separate from the argument about the referendum, it's about who runs the country. Nobody has the right to take over Parliamentary proceedings from the incumbent government, without the approval of the people.

We are being painted into a corner where Jeremy Corbyn, hated not disliked, by the majority of this country, with the lowest poll rating of any opposition leader, ever, could be made PM. Without the support of even a quarter of the people.
How the **** is that democratic.
You’ve got it backwards. We don’t elect governments. We elect MPs. If the party with the largest number of seats loses enough support (like if their leader kicks them out of the party), other parties can take control of Parliament.

By your reasoning above, as soon as May left as PM, Johnson should have called an election. We didn’t vote for him as leader of the Tories in 2017. So by the same rules, it’s perfectly legal for Corbyn to become PM, should he have enough support in the house.

If you’re so concerned about democracy in this country, you must be horrified that Johnson has been found to have shut parliament down illegally.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Taffy on the wing » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:54 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Nah, its not what brexiteers do.


An "X" on a ballot paper is more our thing.



The Establishment and Remoaners don't, but we still have faith in democracy.

Call us old fashioned.. ......
Ringo is the thickest bloke i've ever come across!.....in all walks of life.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:00 pm

I reckon Ringo should do a Brexit Beyonce video - 'If you wanna leave the EU put an X in it'

We know he can do virtual drag with Liz so no doubt he could pull off the real thing
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lord Beamish » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:08 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:I dont.


That's why I said "reckon" to be concerned.

Remoaners, what yer like!

:lol:
Where did I ‘reckon’ to be concerned, Wrongo?

I just said I think you are mentally ill. I didn’t express concern for you, as I literally have none to give.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:19 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:I dont.


That's why I said "reckon" to be concerned.

Remoaners, what yer like!

:lol:
‘Reckon’ is another word Wrongo doesn’t know the meaning of.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:44 pm

Nigel Farage:

"Boris Johnson's government made an "absolutely catastrophic political judgement" when it prorogued Parliament, Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage says.

"I think he's in trouble, I think he's in real trouble," he says.

"The prospects of leaving on 31 October have completely evaporated."

He adds that the most likely outcome is an extension to Brexit - which he says the UK would request at a summit in Brussels on 17 October - followed by a general election."

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:48 pm

Spijed wrote:Nigel Farage:

"Boris Johnson's government made an "absolutely catastrophic political judgement" when it prorogued Parliament, Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage says.

"I think he's in trouble, I think he's in real trouble," he says.

"The prospects of leaving on 31 October have completely evaporated."

He adds that the most likely outcome is an extension to Brexit - which he says the UK would request at a summit in Brussels on 17 October - followed by a general election."

I disagree!!

Could be a vote of no confidence.

Then LD, Labour, SNP, greens form a coalition government!!

They will try to get agreement to cancel article 50.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:58 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I disagree!!

Could be a vote of no confidence.

Then LD, Labour, SNP, greens form a coalition government!!

They will try to get agreement to cancel article 50.
There’s no agreement on who would lead such a government and without it there’s a chance there’d be an election automatically called after 14 days which would increase the risk of no deal. Don’t think it will happen.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:00 pm

Corbyn has just spent about a Trillion pounds with his speech commitments.

All paid for by taxing the top 5%, obviously just above his pay grade.

It’s no wonder all normal people with a brain think he is deluded.

Can see Labour going down in the polls and surprisingly Tories going up.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:02 pm

martin_p wrote:There’s no agreement on who would lead such a government and without it there’s a chance there’d be an election automatically called after 14 days which would increase the risk of no deal. Don’t think it will happen.

Martin , it’s going to be an interesting ride over the coming days.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:13 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:No words
You may have no words.

The fact is they are breaking the law, but no one cares.

Whilst I may want to kill them my actual actions don’t support my thoughts.

On 4 occasions I have as a bailiff caught Eastern European’s with fish they were obviously intending to kill and take home as they were keeping them captive against the rules of the club. They are very clever in the way they hide the fact.

3 returned fish to the water when challenged , a forth who resisted returning them I did suggest he would join the fish in the lake if he did not comply. He did comply and then left as requested.
In the main when caught they comply, however one bailiff was beaten up when he asked them to leave..

I am passionate about providing fishing for younger generations, they just want to destroy it.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Darthlaw » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:18 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I disagree!!

Could be a vote of no confidence.

Then LD, Labour, SNP, greens form a coalition government!!

They will try to get agreement to cancel article 50.
Nah.

Once Brexit is extended, there will be a GE which is almost guaranteed to result in a hung parliament. Then you’ll have SNP/Greens/Lib Dems demanding Article 50 is reversed to side with Labour, or Brexit demanding no deal to side with the Tories.

Either way, most folk in the middle will lose out.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by summitclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:34 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I disagree!!

Could be a vote of no confidence.

Then LD, Labour, SNP, greens form a coalition government!!

They will try to get agreement to cancel article 50.
Which would lead to lab and LD being dessimated at the next GE.

I think they are more likely to agree a deal subject to confirmation in a 2nd referundum. Which of course would also be a massive blow to democracy.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Walton » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:39 pm

How is having more democracy a blow to democracy?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by KateR » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:41 pm

what he said:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/b ... eme-court/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:43 pm

Walton wrote:How is having more democracy a blow to democracy?
Hadn’t you heard, having votes has been anti-democratic since 24th June 2016.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:44 pm

KateR wrote:what he said:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/b ... eme-court/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Behind a paywall

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by summitclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:45 pm

Walton wrote:How is having more democracy a blow to democracy?
Because it could overturn a referendum outcome without implementing the results of the first one, by a 2/3 remainer HOC elected from 2/3rds leave constituencies.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:46 pm

martin_p wrote:Hadn’t you heard, having votes has been anti-democratic since 24th June 2016.
Apart from a specific 2 week period when Johnson wants an election and then its anti-democratic not to have votes
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:47 pm

Darthlaw wrote:Nah.

Once Brexit is extended, there will be a GE which is almost guaranteed to result in a hung parliament. Then you’ll have SNP/Greens/Lib Dems demanding Article 50 is reversed to side with Labour, or Brexit demanding no deal to side with the Tories.

Either way, most folk in the middle will lose out.
I don’t agree it will be a hung parliament.

If the Tories are smart and work with the BP, they would have a big majority.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Walton » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:49 pm

summitclaret wrote:Because it could overturn a referendum outcome without implementing the results of the first one, by a 2/3 remainer HOC elected from 2/3rds leave constituencies.
How did 2/3 of leave constituencies return 2/3 remainer MPs, in an election dated after the referendum?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Darthlaw » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:49 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:If the Tories are smart
Therein lies your problem.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:49 pm

Walton wrote:How is having more democracy a blow to democracy?

Because the question would be.

Vote for a **** deal that is effectively remain.

Or remain.

Not hard to understand
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Lowbankclaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:50 pm

Darthlaw wrote:Therein lies your problem.
You have a good valid point.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:52 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Apart from a specific 2 week period when Johnson wants an election and then its anti-democratic not to have votes
Any vote on a GE will be voted down, as most MP’s know they will be voted out.

Drain the swamp

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:56 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Any vote on a GE will be voted down, as most MP’s know they will be voted out.

Drain the swamp
I dont know about the Tory's but once a 31st Oct No Deal is averted I think Labour, Libs, Greens and SNP will all push for a GE and will all vote for it given the chance

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:07 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:I dont know about the Tory's but once a 31st Oct No Deal is averted I think Labour, Libs, Greens and SNP will all push for a GE and will all vote for it given the chance
Yep, but let's see how much further damage to himself and his party Johnson can do in the meantime :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Walton » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:09 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Because the question would be.

Vote for a **** deal that is effectively remain.

Or remain.

Not hard to understand
One is Brexit, one is remain. Exactly the same as the original one, except now we know how ridiculous Brexit actually is.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:09 pm

The word on the street is that Parliament will propose a motion that Johnson has to ask the EU for an extension wearing a clown suit and with a cock drawn on his back.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:17 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:I dont know about the Tory's but once a 31st Oct No Deal is averted I think Labour, Libs, Greens and SNP will all push for a GE and will all vote for it given the chance
They had two chances and voted no.
The games they play.

They past a law to stop no deal.

What more do they want ffs.

They need an agreement from the EU to extend or we will be kicked out.

They will not agree to an extension without a plan for a vote.

So let’s get on and have a GE.

Oh yes that right, the Marxist Corbyn has the lowest popularity poll ever of an opposition leader cause we all know he is deluded and ready for an OAP home.

So bring on a GE.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:20 pm

Walton wrote:One is Brexit, one is remain. Exactly the same as the original one, except now we know how ridiculous Brexit actually is.
One is not Brexit under a Labour gov.

In the Customs union, agreeing to new EU laws.
Give up our fishing rights.
Free movement of People.

That’s not what people voted for.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:23 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:The word on the street is that Parliament will propose a motion that Johnson has to ask the EU for an extension wearing a clown suit and with a cock drawn on his back.
So basically, he won't look any more stupid than he does now?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:27 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote:Ringo is the thickest bloke i've ever come across!.....in all walks of life.
You've clearly lead a sheltered life!

:lol:

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:31 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:They had two chances and voted no.
The games they play.

They past a law to stop no deal.

What more do they want ffs.

They need an agreement from the EU to extend or we will be kicked out.

They will not agree to an extension without a plan for a vote.

So let’s get on and have a GE.

Oh yes that right, the Marxist Corbyn has the lowest popularity poll ever of an opposition leader cause we all know he is deluded and ready for an OAP home.

So bring on a GE.
I thought you pay attention and read up on whats going on cos your above post is that of a complete f*ckwit.

Johnson wants to use the election as a duplicitous means of bypassing the law passed to crash us out on the 31st. He is completely untrustworthy and therefore the Labour and Lib Dem MPs will not allow an election until its certain this cant happen

If Johnson wants an election so badly he can go to the EU now and get them to agree to an extension if by the 31st Oct no deal is reached as per the law passed. If he did this then Corbyn would agree to an election immediately

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:32 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:One is not Brexit under a Labour gov.

In the Customs union, agreeing to new EU laws.
Give up our fishing rights.
Free movement of People.

That’s not what people voted for.
It just said ‘Leave’ on the ballot paper.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:34 pm

martin_p wrote:I think I’m close to agreeing with Beamishes ‘mental Issues’ conclusion. You’re certainly at the very least extremely odd. I’ve heard you on the radio so I know you’re a grown man, but it’s certainly not apparent from how you deal with challenge on here.
Aah, the old " I've Lost The Arguement So Will Attempt to Bring Into Question The Other Guys Mental Well Being ," approach!

Like something out of an east german political play book!

Talking about dealing with challenge, you still going to claim that you actually gave me an answer, (but dont quickly remind me what it was! :lol: ) when I ask challenge your good self.

I predicted Bercows role would be pivotal. You said -


[quote="martin_p"]You do know it's not Bercow that will define what the vote is don't you? He's just the facilitator Wrongo.[/quote]

Was I right Marty


Yes



Or



No?

Rise to the challenge Marty !

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:37 pm

[quote="Greenmile"][/quote]

Funny how you managed to quote me. Yet you struggled quoting the poster who has openly admitted running various usernames on Clarets Mad and on here!

Hang on. I'm having an Eminem moment in Stan.

It was.......it was.......you......

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:38 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:I thought you pay attention and read up on whats going on cos your above post is that of a complete f*ckwit.

Johnson wants to use the election as a duplicitous means of bypassing the law passed to crash us out on the 31st. He is completely untrustworthy and therefore the Labour and Lib Dem MPs will not allow an election until its certain this cant happen

If Johnson wants an election so badly he can go to the EU now and get them to agree to an extension if by the 31st Oct no deal is reached as per the law passed. If he did this then Corbyn would agree to an election immediately
They past a law to stop it happening.

They have proved they can pass any law in a day to stop Boris at every turn.

Thinking he can leave by crashing us out just shows people are not paying attention.

Boris can do nothing, he has no majority to do anything.

What’s being suggested is not possible, you are being duped.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:42 pm

martin_p wrote:It just said ‘Leave’ on the ballot paper.
Yep leave!!

Make your own laws.
Can control immigration.
Control your own fiscal policy.
Control your own army.
Control your own fishing waters.

Nor controlling any of those but being sat at the trough.
Or not controlling any of those but not being at the trough.

Is not Brexit.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:48 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Make your own laws.
We always have been able to make our own laws.

Notice how many of 'our' laws actually become law once they receive royal assent?

For example, the recent Benn-Burt Bill that became law COULDN'T be altered by the EU.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Walton » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:51 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Yep leave!!

Make your own laws.
Can control immigration.
Control your own fiscal policy.
Control your own army.
Control your own fishing waters.

Nor controlling any of those but being sat at the trough.
Or not controlling any of those but not being at the trough.

Is not Brexit.
We can do all those currently.

Why do you think we can't?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:52 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:Where did I ‘reckon’ to be concerned, Wrongo?

I just said I think you are mentally ill. I didn’t express concern for you, as I literally have none to give.
That's reassuring to know. However, when somebody says

Lord Beamish wrote: I’ve said it before, but I bears repetition, I seriously think that RingoMcCartney is mentally ill.
You'd be forgiven , on a human level , that someone taking the time to post the above on a football message board would be showing some level of concern. Otherwise theyd come across as somebody who'd lost the argument, wanted to play the man, not the ball and had simply resorted to callous, groundless accusations!

I'll wear your lack of concern as a badge of honour!

:lol:

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:52 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:They past a law to stop it happening.

They have proved they can pass any law in a day to stop Boris at every turn.

Thinking he can leave by crashing us out just shows people are not paying attention.

Boris can do nothing, he has no majority to do anything.

What’s being suggested is not possible, you are being duped.
Which is why he wants parliament dissolved for a general election as soon as possible. Come on, this really isn’t that hard to understand. Why do you think he’s only been pushing for an election since the Benn Bill was passed?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:52 pm

Spijed wrote:We always have been able to make our own laws.

Notice how many of 'our' laws actually become law once they receive royal assent?

For example, the recent Benn-Burt Bill that became law COULDN'T be altered by the EU.
Currently About 75% and reducing as time goes on.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:53 pm

martin_p wrote:‘Reckon’ is another word Wrongo doesn’t know the meaning of.

Where as the big one for you is "pivotal" Marty isn't it!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lowbankclaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:55 pm

martin_p wrote:Which is why he wants parliament dissolved for a general election as soon as possible. Come on, this really isn’t that hard to understand. Why do you think he’s only been pushing for an election since the Benn Bill was passed?
To be fair, it’s not going to matter. We are not leaving on Oct 31st.

The next GE will see Labour in 4th place.

Lord Beamish
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lord Beamish » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:58 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:That's reassuring to know. However, when somebody says




You'd be forgiven , on a human level , that someone taking the time to post the above on a football message board would be showing some level of concern. Otherwise theyd come across as somebody who'd lost the argument, wanted to play the man, not the ball and had simply resorted to callous, groundless accusations!

I'll wear your lack of concern as a badge of honour!

:lol:
And now it appeared that you’re drunk. Again.

Spijed
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:59 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:To be fair, it’s not going to matter. We are not leaving on Oct 31st.

The next GE will see Labour in 4th place.
You really think the Lib-Dems are going to be a bigger party?

Devils_Advocate
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:00 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:They past a law to stop it happening.

They have proved they can pass any law in a day to stop Boris at every turn.

Thinking he can leave by crashing us out just shows people are not paying attention.

Boris can do nothing, he has no majority to do anything.

What’s being suggested is not possible, you are being duped.
Yes but the law requires Boris to do something by the 19th Oct and based on his current words and actions there is no trust that he will obey the law.

If an election is called then Parliament shuts down so your points about passing laws in a day or not having a majority is irrelevant.

Why would we risk Boris managing to find a loophole or just doing something illegal to force a No Deal when we this will all be resolved in less than a month and we can then have an election.

Why are you so insistent on needing an election quickly because only a month ago before the Benn bill there was no call for an election from the Brexit side and in-fact the idea of an election was touted as undemocratic?

If you are right in your assertion that the EU wont give us an extension then what are you worried about? Boris will try and get the deal he wants. If he gets it great news you get your perfect Deal. If he doesnt he has to request an extension. The EU reject his extension and either concede to his demands or we legally crash out with a No Deal. Whats your problem?

The problem is those of us who live in the real world see that the EU will almost certainly give us an extension knowing an election will follow with the potential to open up a new approach to leaving the EU

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