Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[Murger]

Hahahahaha!

Dynamite if there is owt in it!

Yeah, wonder why this being made up now?

Johnson is in deep ****

Seriously, is there anything you won't believe?

I no longer believe in Father Christmas or the Tooth Fairy. Does that count?

[Devils_Advocate]

Dynamite if there's owt in it.

Is this in case Johnson decides to break the law and not send the letter himself or is there more to it? If its just contingency to gaurd against a rogue PM then dont see the fuss.

Talking about colluding with foreign countries to go against our own county whats Daniel Kawczynski up to these days?

[Lancasterclaret]

There is nothing in the article.

Nothing.

If they had anything, they'd print it.

I cannot believe, even after three years of this kinda stuff that people are still willing to shut down their brain functions just be because they want so desperately to believe stuff like this.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Why would they print anything if there is an ongoing investigation?
That's a genuine question btw and I fully expect others on here to ask you the same thing, because we shouldn't expect the media to reveal anything sensitive IF our politicians have been colluding against our government with politicians from other countries.

IF this is true then it's quite a big issue and will be interesting to watch unfold and to see what powers the government has to act against the British politicians who've been involved with this.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

A fairer society.

Going back to 16 year old girls seeing having having loads of kids a career choice .

Where two adults were earning more money having 6 kids than two parents with two kids holding down 3 jobs and earning less than people on benefits.

Councils having to build 7 bedroom houses for people with six kids.

Who the hell is going to pay for all this massive give away.

Oh yes people like me who earn a good living are going to be taxed to death to pay for the sick, lame and lazy.

Whilst I am more than happy to support those who really need it, under Labour it would return to the abuse than happened before.

Erm, the teenagers having kids "as a career choice" was happening under the Tories and carried on with Labour.

Neither party has ever really tried to tackle the issue.

[jrgbfc]

Corbyn is offering the moon on a stick.

Less hours.

More and more and more and more spending.

For us who were around in the 70’s 80’s.

It’s like second coming of the devil.

For those born after 1990’s, what’s not to like.

What about the millions and millions Boris has been promising for our hospitals, schools, railways etc? Or is it only reckless when its Labour making the pledges?

[Damo]

There is nothing in the article.

Nothing.

If they had anything, they'd print it.

I cannot believe, even after three years of this kinda stuff that people are still willing to shut down their brain functions just be because they want so desperately to believe stuff like this.

Not exactly that far fetched, with what has been going on lately is it?
In fact it wouldn't surprise most people if they invented a new law allowing it to happen

[JohnMcGreal]

Surely leave is entitled to define what leave means?

Leave has been trying define what leave means for over three years now, but still hasn't come close to actually doing it.

The reality is that leaving the EU means the withdrawal agreement. The only thing we're arguing over is whether we ratify it now before we leave, or whether we sign up to the key components of it when we're back at the negotiating table after a No Deal exit.

[TheFamilyCat]

Dynamite if there's owt in it.

Kate's new voice has dynamite in it?

[Lancasterclaret]

Why would they print anything if there is an ongoing investigation?
That's a genuine question btw and I fully expect others on here to ask you the same thing, because we shouldn't expect the media to reveal anything sensitive IF our politicians have been colluding against our government with politicians from other countries.

IF this is true then it's quite a big issue and will be interesting to watch unfold and to see what powers the government has to act against the British politicians who've been involved with this.

Problem we are going to have to that what you think is collusion and what I think is are two completely different things.

To me, asking the Polish or Hungarian governments to block an extension so EU blocks our parliament from doing it's job is exactly that.

Problem for you is that the people who have done that are Brexit Party MEPs and a Conservative MP for Shrewsbury who used to be in the ERG.

To me, that is defo worthy of investigation because it's pretty much what people who want other countries to have a real say in our affairs do.

Farage has a word for it as well that he's very fond of using.

Agree?

[Lancasterclaret]

No mention of any of that in the actual article.

Well, I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

This sums it up best

https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1178085494825144320" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They know that you will believe anything that backs up your point of view.

We see it on here every day.

While you do that (consciously or unconsciously) then we are going nowhere fast.

Now Sid (and others), why do you think there 13 page scoop (with no evidence in, just lots of exhortations about remainer traitors (again, its a shock isn't it?)

Why now?

Could it be anything to do with the last week that Johnston just had?

Could it? Could it?

It couldn't be just to take peoples minds of the reality of last week?

I mean, the Conservatives and the Mail on Sunday would never do that, would they?

Wake up and smell the coffee eh?

They are treating you like idiots.

Don't let them.

[taio]

Daily Mail is an appalling newspaper only slightly better than the Express.

[summitclaret]

Leave has been trying define what leave means for over three years now, but still hasn't come close to actually doing it.

The reality is that leaving the EU means the withdrawal agreement. The only thing we're arguing over is whether we ratify it now before we leave, or whether we sign up to the key components of it when we're back at the negotiating table after a No Deal exit.

It's been rejected 3 times and yet people think it can be the middle option in a ref question in an approach that is biased towards remain.

[AndyClaret]

Some interesting new polling out from Lord Ashcroft, people prefer No Deal to Corbyn as Prime Minister.

https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status ... 6355591169" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AndyClaret]

They know that you will believe anything that backs up your point of view.

Think you've just described yourself there mate.

[JohnMcGreal]

It's been rejected 3 times and yet people think it can be the middle option in a ref question in an approach that is biased towards remain.

It isn't a middle option. It is the only credible leave option available. That is what Brexit looks like. Don't like it? Don't vote for it.

The really important point that needs to be stressed, is that there's no getting away from that withdrawal agreement even in the event of leaving with no deal. The key contents (financial settlement, Irish border, citizens rights) will still be sat there waiting to be resolved before any talks of a future trading relationship can begin. Which is another reason why 'No Deal' is a complete nonsense.

[Lancasterclaret]

Think you've just described yourself there mate.

I haven't though have I?

Evidence free 100% conviction is defo not my thing!

[AndyClaret]

Some interesting new polling out from Lord Ashcroft, people prefer No Deal to Corbyn as Prime Minister.

https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status ... 6355591169" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour leavers prefer Boris to Corbyn.

[summitclaret]

Leave has been trying define what leave means for over three years now, but still hasn't come close to actually doing it.

The reality is that leaving the EU means the withdrawal agreement. The only thing we're arguing over is whether we ratify it now before we leave, or whether we sign up to the key components of it when we're back at the negotiating table after a No Deal exit.

Leave means what it always has, that we control our own money, trade, borders and laws. It suits remain to muddy the waters. Yes there is a debate about how to leave but what it is us clear in.

[summitclaret]

Some interesting new polling out from Lord Ashcroft, people prefer No Deal to Corbyn as Prime Minister.

https://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status ... 6355591169" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is all pretty devastating for Labour and for remain also. There are few surprises for me. Any further delays in sorting brexit will only make it worse for both.

[Lowbankclaret]

Interesting speech, well worth a listen.

Daniel Hannan - Germany no longer needs Europe

[Heathclaret]

Labour leavers prefer Boris to Corbyn.

I’m not a Corbyn fan, but if the choice is him or Johnson, I’ll be voting for Labour.

Johnson is an embarrassment to this country.

Using a poll from the Mail isn’t really proof of anything, the mail wouldn’t know the truth if it smacked them in the face.

Johnson and his rhetoric whipping up the masses, bribing the country with promises of spending on the NHS and the police and being believed, if it wasn’t so frightening it would be hilarious.

Billions to be spent on new hospitals if Johnson is in power, I wonder where that money will be coming from, the USA perhaps.

The man is a liar and we all know it.

[AndyClaret]

I’m not a Corbyn fan, but if the choice is him or Johnson, I’ll be voting for Labour.

Johnson is an embarrassment to this country.

Using a poll from the Mail isn’t really proof of anything, the mail wouldn’t know the truth if it smacked them in the face.

Johnson and his rhetoric whipping up the masses, bribing the country with promises of spending on the NHS and the police and being believed, if it wasn’t so frightening it would be hilarious.

Billions to be spent on new hospitals if Johnson is in power, I wonder where that money will be coming from, the USA perhaps.

The man is a liar and we all know it.

Attacking the poll because you don't like the results is a bit Trumpian isn't it ?

[summitclaret]

Attacking the poll because you don't like the results is a bit Trumpian isn't it ?

Especially when it is a respected source. He/she seems to think that the Mail has just made it up.

[Lord Rothbury]

Especially when it is a respected source. He/she seems to think that the Mail has just made it up.

Lets have a 2nd poll we could call it the "Peoples Poll"

[summitclaret]

Lets have a 2nd poll we could call it the "Peoples Poll"

Is that the best you can come up with?

[AndrewJB]

Corbyn is offering the moon on a stick.

Less hours.

More and more and more and more spending.

For us who were around in the 70’s 80’s.

It’s like second coming of the devil.

For those born after 1990’s, what’s not to like.

How is it "moon on a stick" when it's being paid for by increased taxes? He's not promising big spending increases and big tax cuts like Johnson is.

If we want idiotic and reckless economic policy, look no further than the last nine years. Deficit caused by financial crash? Let's get the poor to pay that one off. The richest thousand people here see their wealth double in just five years to half a trillion pounds, misery is caused for the poorest, everyone else suffers through stagnating wages, and underfunded services, and our national debt doubles. Rank incompetence.

[taio]

How is it "moon on a stick" when it's being paid for by increased taxes? He's not promising big spending increases and big tax cuts like Johnson is.

If we want idiotic and reckless economic policy, look no further than the last nine years. Deficit caused by financial crash? Let's get the poor to pay that one off. The richest thousand people here see their wealth double in just five years to half a trillion pounds, misery is caused for the poorest, everyone else suffers through stagnating wages, and underfunded services, and our national debt doubles. Rank incompetence.

You didn't like cuts in public spending and the debt doubling. There's a conflict here.

[AndrewJB]

Dynamite if there's owt in it.

It's probably to keep newspapers from reporting on this:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ouse-grant" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While not as much money is involved here as was with the Garden Bridge debacle (forty million of taxpayers money and nothing to show for it), this one lifts the veil on how the PM thinks as an entitled toff. "Rules don't apply to me"

[AndrewJB]

You didn't like cuts in public spending and the debt doubling. There's a conflict here.

There actually isn't. The government cut taxes for the wealthy while they were cutting spending for everyone else. "We are all in it together" was simply a lie. It was their choice to balance our books on the backs of our poorest, the disabled, single mothers, the sick, the old, the unemployed - rather than making it the responsibility of the banking sector, for example.

[Heathclaret]

Attacking the poll because you don't like the results is a bit Trumpian isn't it ?

Didn’t the polls have Milliband beating Cameron.

Also, the poll is dependent on who was asked the question.


What does trumpian mean?

[Swizzlestick]

Various polls (including Lord Ashcroft’s) before the last GE were claiming a clear Tory majority would be the outcome.

[Swizzlestick]

There actually isn't. The government cut taxes for the wealthy while they were cutting spending for everyone else. "We are all in it together" was simply a lie. It was their choice to balance our books on the backs of our poorest, the disabled, single mothers, the sick, the old, the unemployed - rather than making it the responsibility of the banking sector, for example.

Indeed. Another corporation tax cut this year too.

[taio]

Indeed. Another corporation tax cut this year too.

But there's a good argument and evidence that cutting corporation tax has been invaluable for the economy and increasing revenue for the government.

[Swizzlestick]

But there's a good argument and evidence that cutting corporation tax has been invaluable for the economy and increasing revenue for the government.

Depends what you read I suppose https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48885496

[taio]

Depends what you read I suppose https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48885496

I'd be concerned about increasing corporation tax while exiting the EU.

[Swizzlestick]

I'd be concerned about increasing corporation tax while exiting the EU.

Even if we increased it 3%, we’d still have one of the lowest rates in the EU. Not that I’m saying we should, just that it’s scandalous that corporate tax rates are being cut at the same time as public services being slashed under the guise of “austerity” or whatever they’re calling it now. Especially as it’s not been proven that it does increase revenues into the public purse. Not like Boris to be misleading, is it?

[taio]

Even if we increased it 3%, we’d still have one of the lowest rates in the EU. Not that I’m saying we should, just that it’s scandalous that corporate tax rates are being cut at the same time as public services being slashed under the guise of “austerity” or whatever they’re calling it now. Especially as it’s not been proven that it does increase revenues into the public purse. Not like Boris to be misleading, is it?

On the flip side corporation tax shouldn't be increased, without unequivocal evidence that it would improve the economy, just for the sake of hitting businesses.

[AndrewJB]

On the flip side corporation tax shouldn't be increased, without unequivocal evidence that it would improve the economy, just for the sake of hitting businesses.

Even going back to 2010 there was no good economic argument for cutting corporation tax, because many companies were sitting on big cash piles that they were unwilling to invest because the economic outlook wasn't good. If the government taxed these companies more, the money could have been used to invest in the economy, and that would have provided a stimulus. We have the choice of leaving money with a corporation and letting them spend it as they wish - which could mean just moving it offshore, or handing it out to shareholders (who may or may not live here), or buying property with it (which doesn't have a positive impact on the economy); or taxing it and using the money for a definite public good. Even increasing welfare spending will do the economy more good than a company handing out dividends, because the money is spread more evenly across the economy, and goes right back in.

[atlantalad]

There actually isn't. The government cut taxes for the wealthy while they were cutting spending for everyone else. "We are all in it together" was simply a lie. It was their choice to balance our books on the backs of our poorest, the disabled, single mothers, the sick, the old, the unemployed - rather than making it the responsibility of the banking sector, for example.

Aye, .... and who were responsible for deregulating the UK banking system?

[Devils_Advocate]

Led by Regan across the pond but it was Thatcher who embraced the free market ideals in the 80s that led to the deregulation of the UK banking system as well as leading us down the path of privatisation and foreign ownership

[atlantalad]

Hmmm, according to a Guardian article in 2012 covering banking collapse Nigel Lawson toyed with the idea under Thatcher govt but it was actually Brown & Balls who went ahead with the deregulation in 1997.

[AndrewJB]

Hmmm, according to a Guardian article in 2012 covering banking collapse Nigel Lawson toyed with the idea under Thatcher govt but it was actually Brown & Balls who went ahead with the deregulation in 1997.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_(financial_markets" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
Up until 2007 not only were Cameron and Osborne pledging to maintain Labour’s spending plans, but they were also urging Labour to deregulate more. There is also a speech in which Osbourne said Britain needed to emulate Ireland’s success - just before their economy crashed.

[Lowbankclaret]

There actually isn't. The government cut taxes for the wealthy while they were cutting spending for everyone else. "We are all in it together" was simply a lie. It was their choice to balance our books on the backs of our poorest, the disabled, single mothers, the sick, the old, the unemployed - rather than making it the responsibility of the banking sector, for example.

The Tories raised the income tax rate from £6000 to around 12000, taking over two million low paid workers out of paying any income tax.
43% of people now pay no income tax.

[Swizzlestick]

43% of people now pay no income tax.

Or to put it another way - 43% earn less than £12,500 a year. At least employment figures are up though, eh.

[Devils_Advocate]

Hmmm, according to a Guardian article in 2012 covering banking collapse Nigel Lawson toyed with the idea under Thatcher govt but it was actually Brown & Balls who went ahead with the deregulation in 1997.

Im guessing the Gaurdian article you are referencing is the one which pretty much just lays out Philip Booth of the IEA views

The IEA describes itself as a freemarket think tank and is regarded as having a heavy right wing bias. In fact this year it has received a formal warning for political bias from the regulator in the area it published its new paper in.

I think you just need to be careful what you read and look up sources and try to find multiple articles. Out of about 5 or 6 articles ive just looked at this is the only one with this view whereas everything else points to the 1980's government.

There is no doubt since 96 Labour could have done more and those who support the Labour Corbyn represents can fairly have a go at Blair and Brown but this approach was fully supported and backed by the Tory's who probably would have taken things further than the New Labour govt did

[taio]

Or to put it another way - 43% earn less than £12,500 a year. At least employment figures are up though, eh.

Surely you still think increase in the lower threshold to such an extent is a good thing along with the statutory minimum wage.

[AndrewJB]

The Tories raised the income tax rate from £6000 to around 12000, taking over two million low paid workers out of paying any income tax.
43% of people now pay no income tax.

Everybody started paying tax at £11,800, so when you spin this as “for lower earners” that’s not true. For anyone earning £6000pa or £8000pa they would see no benefit at all.

Let’s not forget that along with his tens of billions of pounds of extra spending, Johnson is also promising a tax cut to higher earners (as well as focusing another at lower income people), and so far nothing has emerged as to how all of this will be paid for. We get establishment media fury at Corbyn’s costed plans, and establishment media silence at the establishment’s poster boy’s slipshod economics. Funny that.

[taio]

Everybody started paying tax at £11,800, so when you spin this as “for lower earners” that’s not true. For anyone earning £6000pa or £8000pa they would see no benefit at all.

Let’s not forget that along with his tens of billions of pounds of extra spending, Johnson is also promising a tax cut to higher earners (as well as focusing another at lower income people), and so far nothing has emerged as to how all of this will be paid for. We get establishment media fury at Corbyn’s costed plans, and establishment media silence at the establishment’s poster boy’s slipshod economics. Funny that.

They will borrow money.

[Lowbankclaret]

Or to put it another way - 43% earn less than £12,500 a year. At least employment figures are up though, eh.

So is that not a good thing.

Or do you think they should be on welfare and not bothering going to work.