Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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Spijed
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:10 pm

I see the Conservatives are about to throw British farmers under a bus!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Stalbansclaret » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:16 pm

I was just checking and Boris Johnson, our Prime Minister, said at the end of June that there was "a million to one chance" of there being no deal. He also said "do or die" the UK would be out by 31st October so it's just a case of being patient and seeing the great deal he is on the point of agreeing. I mean anything else would mean our Prime Minister was a massive, massive off-the-scale world-beating bulls**tter which would be patently ridiculous.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by android » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:48 pm

I'm astonished at this latest attack on our democracy - an apparently successful proroguing of parliament.

Thankfully the Supreme Court ensured that parliament has had the past 2 weeks to deal with the "extreme effects" on our democracy brought about by the previous prorogation attempt. I rashly predicted that, on resumption, parliament would achieve the sum total of nothing on Brexit. Obviously this cannot be right, so can someone point out how parliament has eliminated/mitigated/altered in any way any of these "extreme effects" on our democratic position regarding Brexit in the past fortnight?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by If it be your will » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:56 pm

aggi wrote:I thought your plan was WTO. There are also WTO rules for state aid as well. ON top of that it's going to be a struggle to get Brazil, Australia etc to sign up to those trade deals when the UK is also subsidising its farming industry. It's not going to be an attractuve deal for them in that case.

I know a lot of people (not necessarily you) have an idea of this utopia when we leave the EU when the UK will be able to do whatever it wants without being restrained by anyone but that just isn't reality. The EU is just one part of this global framework.
Only if they distort international trade, and even then the only available sanctions are permission to install retaliatory tariffs, not recourse to the courts. This might or might not become relevant, I don't know. But what has to made completely clear is the WTO rules are absolutely nothing like the Single Market rules.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by If it be your will » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:00 pm

I'd just 'no-deal' it now, I think.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by CnBtruntru » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:04 pm

android wrote:I'm astonished at this latest attack on our democracy - an apparently successful proroguing of parliament.

Thankfully the Supreme Court ensured that parliament has had the past 2 weeks to deal with the "extreme effects" on our democracy brought about by the previous prorogation attempt. I rashly predicted that, on resumption, parliament would achieve the sum total of nothing on Brexit. Obviously this cannot be right, so can someone point out how parliament has eliminated/mitigated/altered in any way any of these "extreme effects" on our democratic position regarding Brexit in the past fortnight?
There all politicians and only wanted to get back for the freebies and cheap booze, oh and extortionate expenses, nobody fathomed it out yet, no one in parliament whatever party has a clue how do sort out this mess.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:20 pm

martin_p wrote:Over 100 years of problems in Ireland can now ‘easily be solved’ :lol:
The situation as changed from the olden days bobby sands etc, the younger generation have evolved & are more peaceful more occupied with Facebook,snapchat & Twitter, more social integration than separation, the older 1s have gone into retirement, died or simply don’t see the point or to battle scarred & not interested, I can’t see people suddenly taking up arms & running around with sawn off shotguns you might get a odd 1 or 2 isolated rogue militia. Vast changes have occurred from the olden days it’s more settled.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:22 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Reality not a strong point of Brexiteers in 2016
Reality not a strong point of Brexiteers in 2017
Reality not a strong point of Brexiteers in 2018
Reality not a strong point of Brexiteers in 2019

No suggestion that this is going to change in 2020
Remoaners didn't accept the referendum result in 2016

Remoaners hadn't accepted the result in 2017.

Remoaners hadn't accepted the result in 2018.

Remoaners haven't accepted the in 2019.

No suggestion that this is going to change in 2020.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:23 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:The situation as changed from the olden days bobby sands etc, the younger generation have evolved & are more peaceful more occupied with Facebook,snapchat & Twitter, more social integration than separation, the older 1s have gone into retirement, died or simply don’t see the point or to battle scarred & not interested, I can’t see people suddenly taking up arms & running around with sawn off shotguns you might get a odd 1 or 2 isolated rogue militia. Vast changes have occurred from the olden days it’s more settled.
There must have been some sort of agreement arranged. Better not go messing that up then!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:27 pm

martin_p wrote:There must have been some sort of agreement arranged. Better not go messing that up then!
Maybe the GFA was a stimulus & other evolutionary factors ie social media being a distractor.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:30 pm

AndrewJB wrote:If she , May, was a remainer, how gullible does that make Johnson for serving in her cabinet? How useless does that make the Tory Party for making her leader?
Almost as useless as The Liebour Party having a lifelong Brexiteer as their leader.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by TheFamilyCat » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:31 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:Maybe the GFA was a stimulus & other evolutionary factors ie social media being a distractor.
Are you saying the troubles in Ireland were solved because the terrorists just went on Facebook instead?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:36 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Are you saying the troubles in Ireland were solved because the terrorists just went on Facebook instead?
It’s a factor, more social integration in schools & colleges between the catholic’s & Protestants, overall generally relationship wise.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Paul Waine » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:43 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Have you seen the latest UK tariffs released today CC

Throws the farmers under a bus.
Hi Lancs, I saw you post this earlier today - much earlier today - this been a lot of posts today, for some reason.

I've looked up the plans announced by UK gov't. It appears that plans are that there will be no tariffs on 88% of imports. (BBC News).

How does this change from the current situation for trade within the EU? I guess 100% of current EU imports are zero tariff, right?

How does zero tariffs "throw farmers under a bus?"

Yes, I assume that bananas (I think I saw bananas referenced once with respect to EU) imported from Caribbean and other warmer climes (assuming bananas are among the zero tariff imports) will be cheaper than now (or are all bananas imported into EU already zero tariffs?) But, how does that hurt UK farmers? How many banana plantations do we have in UK at present time? or for that matter where are the banana plantations in EU27?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:02 am

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Lancs, I saw you post this earlier today - much earlier today - this been a lot of posts today, for some reason.

I've looked up the plans announced by UK gov't. It appears that plans are that there will be no tariffs on 88% of imports. (BBC News).

How does this change from the current situation for trade within the EU? I guess 100% of current EU imports are zero tariff, right?

How does zero tariffs "throw farmers under a bus?"

Yes, I assume that bananas (I think I saw bananas referenced once with respect to EU) imported from Caribbean and other warmer climes (assuming bananas are among the zero tariff imports) will be cheaper than now (or are all bananas imported into EU already zero tariffs?) But, how does that hurt UK farmers? How many banana plantations do we have in UK at present time? or for that matter where are the banana plantations in EU27?
I’m not beng funny, but this story has been on all media outlets in the last few days. Why don’t you use the internet to find out why UK farmers feel ‘betrayed’ on tariffs and stop shooting the messenger.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:13 am

Farming is something I know a lot about, or to be more accurate, my wife does.

This is that age old dilemma about free markets (generally a Tory principle) and protectionism.

The trouble with protectionism is that it can protect inefficient poor practices.

The trouble with free markets is that it can expose us to floods of poor quality imports from cheaper nations like China, or, in the food sense, Africa.

I tend to hold the view that we have to become more self sufficient, but also offer good value for money to the consumer (i.e. top quality at a good price).

So, on balance, I feel disinclined to offer an opinion on this one. The farmer’s union will clearly be lobbying for protectionism. Consumer’s groups will be lobbying for low inflation from zero tariff imports. I suspect our farmers will need to evolve to become more niche and high quality (e.g. organic) but that doesn’t fully address the self sufficiency angle where we need to produce our own food to feed the whole nation were we to encounter a crisis like a war.

One thing is for sure - selling off our farms and building houses on them to house our massively growing population is NOT the answer.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:52 am

android wrote:I'm astonished at this latest attack on our democracy - an apparently successful proroguing of parliament.

Thankfully the Supreme Court ensured that parliament has had the past 2 weeks to deal with the "extreme effects" on our democracy brought about by the previous prorogation attempt. I rashly predicted that, on resumption, parliament would achieve the sum total of nothing on Brexit. Obviously this cannot be right, so can someone point out how parliament has eliminated/mitigated/altered in any way any of these "extreme effects" on our democratic position regarding Brexit in the past fortnight?
Breaking the law is now fine if you want Brexit.

Cheers for the confirmation Android.

A bloke as bright as you shouldn't need telling that if you ignore laws you don't like in a country, then that country is in serious trouble.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:55 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Farming is something I know a lot about, or to be more accurate, my wife does.

This is that age old dilemma about free markets (generally a Tory principle) and protectionism.

The trouble with protectionism is that it can protect inefficient poor practices.

The trouble with free markets is that it can expose us to floods of poor quality imports from cheaper nations like China, or, in the food sense, Africa.

I tend to hold the view that we have to become more self sufficient, but also offer good value for money to the consumer (i.e. top quality at a good price).

So, on balance, I feel disinclined to offer an opinion on this one. The farmer’s union will clearly be lobbying for protectionism. Consumer’s groups will be lobbying for low inflation from zero tariff imports. I suspect our farmers will need to evolve to become more niche and high quality (e.g. organic) but that doesn’t fully address the self sufficiency angle where we need to produce our own food to feed the whole nation were we to encounter a crisis like a war.

One thing is for sure - selling off our farms and building houses on them to house our massively growing population is NOT the answer.
You feel "disinclined"?

I'm not surprised, as the reality isn't what you are willing to accept.

We do accounts for farms.

Without subsidies, the price of UK Lamb/beef will have to quadruple in price so the farmers can break even.

Who is going to pay that?

Reality.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:56 am

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Lancs, I saw you post this earlier today - much earlier today - this been a lot of posts today, for some reason.

I've looked up the plans announced by UK gov't. It appears that plans are that there will be no tariffs on 88% of imports. (BBC News).

How does this change from the current situation for trade within the EU? I guess 100% of current EU imports are zero tariff, right?

How does zero tariffs "throw farmers under a bus?"

Yes, I assume that bananas (I think I saw bananas referenced once with respect to EU) imported from Caribbean and other warmer climes (assuming bananas are among the zero tariff imports) will be cheaper than now (or are all bananas imported into EU already zero tariffs?) But, how does that hurt UK farmers? How many banana plantations do we have in UK at present time? or for that matter where are the banana plantations in EU27?
Time for you to use all those skills you've developed in your 150 year career knowing about everything and click on the google icon on your PC.

(thats what I do!)

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:24 am

Good thread on people having a rethink about this whole thing.

Not turning into remainers, just realising that where we are going is not what was voted for, and the drive by some to do it is going well beyond what is acceptable.

https://twitter.com/AdrianYalland/statu ... 7427404800" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:34 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Good thread on people having a rethink about this whole thing.

Not turning into remainers, just realising that where we are going is not what was voted for, and the drive by some to do it is going well beyond what is acceptable.

https://twitter.com/AdrianYalland/statu ... 7427404800" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He’s probably got a german wife!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:42 am

Looks like a no-deal Brexit could really split the Tories in terms of their core support:

https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/sta ... 06241?s=19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by atlantalad » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:56 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:You feel "disinclined"?

I'm not surprised, as the reality isn't what you are willing to accept.

We do accounts for farms.

Without subsidies, the price of UK Lamb/beef will have to quadruple in price so the farmers can break even.

Who is going to pay that?

Reality.
Where do the subsidies for UK lamb/ beef come from?
Where does the source monies come from to give out the subsidies?
Circular

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:04 am

atlantalad wrote:Where do the subsidies for UK lamb/ beef come from?
Where does the source monies come from to give out the subsidies?
Circular
It’s not a question of where the money comes from, it’s will the subsidies continue and if so for how long. I think the government have only committed to continue the payments up until the end of this parliament in the event of no deal. At best that is June 2022, but more realistically probably in the next few months.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by atlantalad » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:07 am

Just seen a headline Brexit no-deal will cause toilet paper shortage!
No shxx.
People will be crxxxing themselves at that.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by atlantalad » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:11 am

martin_p wrote:It’s not a question of where the money comes from, it’s will the subsidies continue and if so for how long. I think the government have only committed to continue the payments up until the end of this parliament in the event of no deal. At best that is June 2022, but more realistically probably in the next few months.
So are you saying the subsidies come directly from UK govt and not via the EU?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:15 am

atlantalad wrote:So are you saying the subsidies come directly from UK govt and not via the EU?
No, they come from the EU now but will stop the minute we leave with no deal. The UK government has promised to replace the subsidies in that event, but only until the end of the current parliament.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:17 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Time for you to use all those skills you've developed in your 150 year career knowing about everything and click on the google icon on your PC.

(thats what I do!)
What's all this about "your 150 year career....?" Are you starting out with an attempt to make a personal insults?

Yes, this "older guy" has been busy at work the past 2 days. Yes, I do know how to use google.

What I was interested in is asking someone who claims he knows "the reality" to explain why zero tariffs is "throwing the farmers under a bus?"

And, I was hoping for a bit more than "well that's what the NFU are saying."

So, why do you post this stuff, suggesting to me at least, that you aren't really aware of the issues and you haven't thought things through for yourself?

Can you back up your post(s) with some thinking of your own?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:19 am

martin_p wrote:I’m not beng funny, but this story has been on all media outlets in the last few days. Why don’t you use the internet to find out why UK farmers feel ‘betrayed’ on tariffs and stop shooting the messenger.
Hi martin, thanks for "not being funny." I've covered the rest in my reply to Lancs, above.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:20 am

Paul Waine wrote:What's all this about "your 150 year career....?" Are you starting out with an attempt to make a personal insults?

Yes, this "older guy" has been busy at work the past 2 days. Yes, I do know how to use google.

What I was interested in is asking someone who claims he knows "the reality" to explain why zero tariffs is "throwing the farmers under a bus?"

And, I was hoping for a bit more than "well that's what the NFU are saying."

So, why do you post this stuff, suggesting to me at least, that you aren't really aware of the issues and you haven't thought things through for yourself?

Can you back up your post(s) with some thinking of your own?
Come on Lancs, join in the ‘making **** up’ game!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:23 am

Paul Waine wrote:Hi martin, thanks for "not being funny." I've covered the rest in my reply to Lancs, above.
Why are you so unwilling to listen to people who (I’m guessing) know significantly more about the issue than you do, the NFU in this instance?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndyClaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:26 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Good thread on people having a rethink about this whole thing.

Not turning into remainers, just realising that where we are going is not what was voted for, and the drive by some to do it is going well beyond what is acceptable.

https://twitter.com/AdrianYalland/statu ... 7427404800" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Classic liberal", enough said.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:30 am

Paul Waine wrote:What's all this about "your 150 year career....?" Are you starting out with an attempt to make a personal insults?

Yes, this "older guy" has been busy at work the past 2 days. Yes, I do know how to use google.

What I was interested in is asking someone who claims he knows "the reality" to explain why zero tariffs is "throwing the farmers under a bus?"

And, I was hoping for a bit more than "well that's what the NFU are saying."

So, why do you post this stuff, suggesting to me at least, that you aren't really aware of the issues and you haven't thought things through for yourself?

Can you back up your post(s) with some thinking of your own?
I think for myself, after looking at the evidence of what I've read from experts.

Whether those experts say something that I don't agree with or not, I check it against other experts so I get a balanced view, then I form my opinion based on that.

What do you do?

I mean, you are ignoring the NFU on this one?

So you must be a farmer who has a better understanding of the area?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:31 am

AndyClaret wrote:"Classic liberal", enough said.
They are 100% on your side Andy!

Dan Hannan is a "classic liberal"

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:32 am

Paul Waine wrote:Hi martin, thanks for "not being funny." I've covered the rest in my reply to Lancs, above.
You haven't

Mask slipping a bit today Paul I think

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:35 am

AndyClaret wrote:"Classic liberal", enough said.
Do you know what a classic liberal believes in? Have a look, I think you might be surprised.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by summitclaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:40 am

Big day in the HOC Sat 19th Oct.
BBC News - Special sitting for MPs to decide Brexit future
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49984367" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:41 am

This is quite good on a possible solution

But it would require a big compromise from the EU (possible) and a big one from the UK (impossible with the current rhetoric I assume)

https://www.politico.eu/article/opinion ... otiations/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:43 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:You haven't

Mask slipping a bit today Paul I think
There you go, again, Lancs - just attempts at personal insults.

I'll leave it at that.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:49 am

Paul Waine wrote:There you go, again, Lancs - just attempts at personal insults.

I'll leave it at that.
Of course you will, you haven’t an answer to why you know more about this than the NFU.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:53 am

Paul Waine wrote:There you go, again, Lancs - just attempts at personal insults.

I'll leave it at that.
Why do you not believe the NFU?

And my post is an observation, not an insult.
Last edited by Lancasterclaret on Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:56 am

martin_p wrote:Why are you so unwilling to listen to people who (I’m guessing) know significantly more about the issue than you do, the NFU in this instance?
Hi martin, what makes you think the NFU know more about these things than me? I'm sure they know a lot more about raising sheep and running a dairy farm and planting a field of wheat or other crops.

But, we all know that we don't just eat the food that the NFU produce. We also import a lot of food.

Everyone also knows that the CAP subsidises farmers in the EU - and the CAP will come to an end when the UK exits the EU.

It seems lots of people don't know that the UK subsidised farmers before the UK joined the EEC. It seems some people haven't noticed that there are plans for farming subsidies again for UK farmers.

The CAP wasn't popular when UK joined EEC - it was set up to favour French farmers (remember, the EEC had only a few members back then) - and it didn't work so well for UK farmers.

So, tell me, why do you think that zero tariffs means UK farmers "are being thrown under a bus?"

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:00 am

Paul Waine wrote:Hi martin, what makes you think the NFU know more about these things than me? I'm sure they know a lot more about raising sheep and running a dairy farm and planting a field of wheat or other crops.

But, we all know that we don't just eat the food that the NFU produce. We also import a lot of food.

Everyone also knows that the CAP subsidises farmers in the EU - and the CAP will come to an end when the UK exits the EU.

It seems lots of people don't know that the UK subsidised farmers before the UK joined the EEC. It seems some people haven't noticed that there are plans for farming subsidies again for UK farmers.

The CAP wasn't popular when UK joined EEC - it was set up to favour French farmers (remember, the EEC had only a few members back then) - and it didn't work so well for UK farmers.

So, tell me, why do you think that zero tariffs means UK farmers "are being thrown under a bus?"
Again, the onus is on you to tell us why the NFU would be really worried about zero tariffs on agricultural produce.

I know why the UK Government are doing it btw, and its blatantly obvious.

If they put tariffs on imported food up (which is what we need to survive) then prices would go up.

Guess what one the benefits of Brexit was supposed to be?

Oh yeah, cheaper food.

Much easier to throw the farmers under a bus than admit to 17.4 million that they got lied to again.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:11 am

Paul Waine wrote:Hi martin, what makes you think the NFU know more about these things than me?
I don’t know. Do you exist to represent the concerns of farmers, because they do? That given I’d expect them to be pretty clued up about every issue that impacted farmers in this country, wouldn’t you?

Paul Waine wrote: But, we all know that we don't just eat the food that the NFU produce. We also import a lot of food.
I’m pretty confident that the NFU will also be aware of that point as well. They’ll also be aware that a lot of the food imported from outside the EU attract tariffs now which won’t be the case if we move to a zero tariff model after no deal. Cheaper imports, maybe something that would worry our own food producers?
Paul Waine wrote: Everyone also knows that the CAP subsidises farmers in the EU - and the CAP will come to an end when the UK exits the EU.

It seems lots of people don't know that the UK subsidised farmers before the UK joined the EEC. It seems some people haven't noticed that there are plans for farming subsidies again for UK farmers.

The CAP wasn't popular when UK joined EEC - it was set up to favour French farmers (remember, the EEC had only a few members back then) - and it didn't work so well for UK farmers.
And it seems a lot of people (well, one at least) haven’t read what I posted about subsidies already this morning. The only government commitment is to continue the current level of subsidies until the end of this parliament.

Edit - not forgetting of course that the EU won’t be following us in setting zero tariffs on agriculture imports which means that British exports to the EU will attract tariffs. We export the majority of the agricultural produce to the EU so this will have a massive impact on farmers as well.
Last edited by martin_p on Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:18 am

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
At least 50 Conservative MPs including three cabinet ministers would revolt against a manifesto pledging to pursue no deal Brexit.

MPs call the idea of the Tories advocating no deal “lunacy”, “madness” and “ludicrous”.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:19 am

More problems already

- Pretty major EU concession on backstop timing already rejected by the DUP, which sums up I think where they want to go.

https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/statu ... 2392503296" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We can get a deal here, but we have to accept that the dogmatic DUP probably have to be sidelined if they are willing to refuse a perfectly reasonable request just because they don't have sole access to a veto.

EDIT - not as clear as originally reported. Would require a UK pivot on Customs so DUP not as out of order as it originally looked
Last edited by Lancasterclaret on Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:20 am

Spijed wrote:Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
At least 50 Conservative MPs including three cabinet ministers would revolt against a manifesto pledging to pursue no deal Brexit.

MPs call the idea of the Tories advocating no deal “lunacy”, “madness” and “ludicrous”.
Those ministers and MPs still there, despite all the evidence that the government is pursing a "No Deal" strategy.

if they were serious about stopping a "No Deal", they would have quit yesterday after the Johnston phone call to Merkel and Cummings disgraceful spinning of it.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:25 am

Paul

This might help your understanding of the NFUs position

https://twitter.com/Minette_Batters/sta ... 0939070464" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:49 am

The NFU is a Union - should we believe everything they say? Only a fool would do that (we have plenty on this thread).

Does what they say have SOME merit? Of course.

Farmers currently get UK taxpayers money in the form of a subsidy, coming via the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy.

70% of the CAP goes to 20% of farms - mainly the largest. Many small European farmers as well as African farmers are forced out of business by the CAP.

So some of them may well be paying Lancs to do their books, and they may be doing OK out of it (also from cheap foreign labour I bet) but that doesn’t make it the best future system.

A system based on environmental protection, not just rewarding over-production, rewarding high quality too, helping small holdings as well as big farms. That would be a start. These farms need to be encouraged to up their game. But yes, there needs to be some form of financial support obviously because we need our farms to last for ever.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:53 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:The NFU is a Union - should we believe everything they say? Only a fool would do that (we have plenty on this thread).

Does what they say have SOME merit? Of course.

Farmers currently get UK taxpayers money in the form of a subsidy, coming via the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy.

70% of the CAP goes to 20% of farms - mainly the largest. Many small European farmers as well as African farmers are forced out of business by the CAP.

So some of them may well be paying Lancs to do their books, and they may be doing OK out of it (also from cheap foreign labour I bet) but that doesn’t make it the best future system.

A system based on environmental protection, not just rewarding over-production, rewarding high quality too, helping small holdings as well as big farms. That would be a start. These farms need to be encouraged to up their game. But yes, there needs to be some form of financial support obviously because we need our farms to last for ever.
You do know where Lancaster is I take it? (we live about six miles to the east)

Look at a map.

What sort of farmers do you think we have around here?

Family run businesses on the fells. This ***** them. Completely.

Would wipe out hill farming and that would absolutely shaft the local economy.

But yeah, you keep pretending its all about "cheap foriegn labour"
Last edited by Lancasterclaret on Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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