Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[Lancasterclaret]

The Letwin amendment would give all a proper chance to scrutinize this bill properly, without killing it.

Under any normal circumstances, that would be the sensible way to go.

But this is Brexit, and normal stuff went out of the window years ago.

[Lancasterclaret]

This sums it up perfectly for me.

"After 24 hours reflection, the Johnson deal might well be decent politics but it’s bad economics.
The UK changed it’s redlines accepting some sort of Irish Sea border to get another deal.
GB now aiming for a Canada-esque trade arrangement.

Politically that throws away much chance of winning the DUP votes, but satisfies most of the ERG. The deal might well pass which would be a big political win for Johnson

But the economics mean betting against gravity. Winning the ability to strike new trade deals with far away markets at the cost of loosening ties with our largest and closest trade partner. It’s really hard to see that as anything but a medium to longer term negative"

[Mala591]

Vote prediction:

I predict that a significant number of Labour MPs in leave majority constituencies will defy their whip and support the new withdrawal agreement and that it will pass by 30 votes.

A victory for common sense and democracy.

[Lancasterclaret]

Listening to the radio

Still full of Brexiteers telling us that the EU need us more than them.

Not a lot of places you can go when the country is full of people who still think like this.

[RingoMcCartney]

Question Time tonight.

Mystic McCartney predicts-

"Look, the country voted to leave. You MPs said you wanted to stop leaving with no deal happening. Boris has got a deal now. So do the job your paid to do, and get on with brexit"

Followed by rapturous applause!

Mystic McCartney strikes again.

2nd audience member to speak, then several more after.

[Lancasterclaret]

Mystic McCartney strikes again.

2nd audience member to speak, then several more after.

Ringo, that been Question Time since 2016.

Brexiteers talk, waffle about "Brexit means Brexit", get thunderous applause.

[willsclarets]

Mystic McCartney strikes again.

2nd audience member to speak, then several more after.

It's telling that you think this paints you in any sort of good light.

[Jakubclaret]

Listening to the radio

Still full of Brexiteers telling us that the EU need us more than them.

Not a lot of places you can go when the country is full of people who still think like this.

Nick ferrari? Do you not think a good reason exists for people (Brexiteers) thinking that way considering the EUs current economic position & the UKs potential position with forward thinking vision. Brexits the bedrock of common sense only if you allow it to be.

[martin_p]

Mystic McCartney strikes again.

2nd audience member to speak, then several more after.

That’s just not true. Anyone with access to the iPlayer can check it out if they want. The first audience interactions were people laying into Matt Hancock and his lying government (to rapturous applause).

[Lancasterclaret]

Nick ferrari? Do you not think a good reason exists for people (Brexiteers) thinking that way considering the EUs current economic position & the UKs potential position with forward thinking vision. Brexits the bedrock of common sense only if you allow it to be.

No

Common sense is trying to make sure we have a closer trade deal with our biggest trading partner.

[Lancasterclaret]

Better make this clear because I'm not sure this is getting through to the ones who minds are closed to anyone who doesn't agree with their extreme views.

This is a deal that sorts the Irish Border, this is a deal that is better than a "No Deal". With a bit of tweaking to the Political Agreement it could even be a good deal. But at the moment its a shite deal, but its better than "No Deal".

I'm gutted that we are leaving and I will always back going back into the EU, but I back this deal as it satisfies the referendum result.

But on Nov 1st, I'll be joining the Lib Dems and actively campaigning to get us back into the EU at the earliest opportunity.

[willsclarets]

Nick ferrari? Do you not think a good reason exists for people (Brexiteers) thinking that way considering the EUs current economic position & the UKs potential position with forward thinking vision. Brexits the bedrock of common sense only if you allow it to be.

I note you just say "Brexit" rather than refer to the deal or why the specifics therein make it a bedrock of common sense. As long as you "win", it doesn't matter right?

[Jakubclaret]

No

Common sense is trying to make sure we have a closer trade deal with our biggest trading partner.

But at what price, alienating other more potentially lucrative deals outside of the eurozone, you strike me as the kind of person if ever out shopping & you see a Ladbrokes or coral ect you'd do a Usain bolt in the opposite direction, we are too naturally risk averse without sensing other opportunities that could wait.

[willsclarets]

But at what price, alienating other more potentially lucrative deals outside of the eurozone, you strike me as the kind of person if ever out shopping & you see a Ladbrokes or coral ect you'd do a Usain bolt in the opposite direction, we are too naturally risk averse without sensing other opportunities that could wait.

When the fun stops. Stop.

[Lancasterclaret]

But at what price, alienating other more potentially lucrative deals outside of the eurozone, you strike me as the kind of person if ever out shopping & you see a Ladbrokes or coral ect you'd do a Usain bolt in the opposite direction, we are too naturally risk averse without sensing other opportunities that could wait.

*Sigh*

Where are all these untapped markets we don't trade with?

Seriously mate, do some actual research on this.

[RingoMcCartney]

Ringo, that been Question Time since 2016.

Brexiteers talk, waffle about "Brexit means Brexit", get thunderous applause.

No, in reality , the panel, nearly always biased with Remain voters, argue the toss and go round and round in circles, pretending they want to either have a "softer brexit," "stop a calamitous no deal brexit," "stop a cliff edge brexit" take your pick. When really what they wont admit is they want to stop Brexit itself. Then an
exasperated member of the audience speaks for the majority of voters (that includes Remain voters who actually accept the result) And says, ""Look, the country voted to leave. You MPs said you wanted to stop leaving with no deal happening. Boris has got a deal now. So do the job your paid to do, and get on with brexit"

It wasn't hard to predict, because it happens Every
********* week!!!

That was the point!

I've just been listening to Daniel Darko Luger MBE is a former English rugby union international who was a member of the squad that won the 2003 Rugby World Cup. Nick Ferrari jokingly asked him about brexit at the end of the interview.

He said, after laughed and he confessed it wasnt his bag , but said "if those MPs in Parliament try and block it tomorrow, the country will go mad"

I think he represents what everyday people think. The everyday People that tell the political class on Question Time, week in week out, "stop arguing, we voted to leave, just bloody do what you're paid to do and get on with it"

[RingoMcCartney]

That’s just not true. Anyone with access to the iPlayer can check it out if they want. The first audience interactions were people laying into Matt Hancock and his lying government (to rapturous applause).

Just how desperate are you!!!

[RingoMcCartney]

It's telling that you think this paints you in any sort of good light.

I couldn't care less how it paints me!

It wasn't hard to predict, because it happens Every
********* week!!!

That was the point!

I've just been listening to Daniel Darko Luger MBE is a former English rugby union international who was a member of the squad that won the 2003 Rugby World Cup. Nick Ferrari jokingly asked him about brexit at the end of the interview.

He said, after laughed and he confessed it wasnt his bag , but said "if those MPs in Parliament try and block it tomorrow, the country will go mad"

I think he represents what everyday people think. The everyday People that tell the political class on Question Time, week in week out, "stop arguing, we voted to leave, just bloody do what you're paid to do and get on with it"

[Lancasterclaret]

No, in reality , the panel, nearly always biased with Remain voters, argue the toss and go round and round in circles, pretending they want to either have a "softer brexit," "stop a calamitous no deal brexit," "stop a cliff edge brexit" take your pick. When really what they wont admit is they want to stop Brexit itself. Then an
exasperated member of the audience speaks for the majority of voters (that includes Remain voters who actually accept the result) And says, ""Look, the country voted to leave. You MPs said you wanted to stop leaving with no deal happening. Boris has got a deal now. So do the job your paid to do, and get on with brexit"

It wasn't hard to predict, because it happens Every
********* week!!!

That was the point!

I've just been listening to Daniel Darko Luger MBE is a former English rugby union international who was a member of the squad that won the 2003 Rugby World Cup. Nick Ferrari jokingly asked him about brexit at the end of the interview.

He said, after laughed and he confessed it wasnt his bag , but said "if those MPs in Parliament try and block it tomorrow, the country will go mad"

I think he represents what everyday people think. The everyday People that tell the political class on Question Time, week in week out, "stop arguing, we voted to leave, just bloody do what you're paid to do and get on with it"

Fascinating insight into your mind there Ringo

Quick question if you don't mind

Why is Farage against this deal? (genuine question as I can't see why he would be)

[Lancasterclaret]

Suzy Dents Word of the day is 'bayard' (1600s): someone with an unshakeable self-confidence that is rooted in ignorance.

Perfect timing.

[AndyClaret]

Apparently Seamus Milne has been giving the nod and a wink to labour leavers.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Fascinating insight into your mind there Ringo

Quick question if you don't mind

Why is Farage against this deal? (genuine question as I can't see why he would be)

Without putting words in your mouth, the question you should be asking is why the Bow Group, Bruges Group and Fishing for Leave have all come out in a joint statement asking MPs to reject the deal. Farage’s answer will be similar but you will get a better answer from these.

I suspect it is because the wording in the political declaration makes them nervous that the level playing field will dominate and prevent us being truly independent.

This is the line on fishing “ Within the context of the overall economic partnership the Parties should establish a new fisheries agreement on, inter alia, access to waters and quota shares.”

This is the line on competition (note, all UK goods not just NI): “ Given the Union and the United Kingdom's geographic proximity and economic interdependence, the future relationship must ensure open and fair competition, encompassing robust commitments to ensure a level playing field. The precise nature of commitments should be commensurate with the scope and depth of the future relationship and the economic connectedness of the Parties. These commitments should prevent distortions of trade and unfair competitive advantages. To that end, the Parties should uphold the common high standards applicable in the Union and the United Kingdom at the end of the transition period in the areas of state aid, competition, social and employment standards, environment, climate change, and relevant tax matters.“

Another reason why Boris’s Brexit is not a hard Brexit, it is a proper Brexit but at the softer end of the proper Brexit spectrum. Remainers voting it down could be a big mistake (again). It will only get harder.

I would take the win and vote for it now though.

[Lancasterclaret]

Without putting words in your mouth, the question you should be asking is why the Bow Group, Bruges Group and Fishing for Leave have all come out in a joint statement asking MPs to reject the deal. Farage’s answer will be similar but you will get a better answer from these.

I suspect it is because the wording in the political declaration makes them nervous that the level playing field will dominate and prevent us being truly independent.

This is the line on fishing “ Within the context of the overall economic partnership the Parties should establish a new fisheries agreement on, inter alia, access to waters and quota shares.”

This is the line on competition (note, all UK goods not just NI): “ Given the Union and the United Kingdom's geographic proximity and economic interdependence, the future relationship must ensure open and fair competition, encompassing robust commitments to ensure a level playing field. The precise nature of commitments should be commensurate with the scope and depth of the future relationship and the economic connectedness of the Parties. These commitments should prevent distortions of trade and unfair competitive advantages. To that end, the Parties should uphold the common high standards applicable in the Union and the United Kingdom at the end of the transition period in the areas of state aid, competition, social and employment standards, environment, climate change, and relevant tax matters.“

Another reason why Boris’s Brexit is not a hard Brexit, it is a proper Brexit but at the softer end of the proper Brexit spectrum. Remainers voting it down could be a big mistake (again). It will only get harder.

I would take the win and vote for it now though.

But the Political Agreement is a wish list, its not enshrined in law.

There is one of the madder ERG types confident that this deal means we can still leave on a "No Deal" basis next year.

I mean, they both can't be right, can they?

[Spijed]

Apparently Seamus Milne has been giving the nod and a wink to labour leavers.

The one thing many forget about Corbyn is that he hates the EU and would always prefer to leave given a choice.

[Colburn_Claret]

But my point is that the EU will still dictate to us, and once we've left we don't have a voice. So we get some independence, but still remain under their thumb, and have no say in what they command. I'll let you figure that out for yourself.

I dont need to figure anything out. You are stuck in the belief that the EU can dictate proceedings because it is bigger, and you're wrong. It's about compromise, and coming to an agreement that suits both sides. The only way your scenario is true, is if the EU are willing to stop trading with us. That will never, ever happen. Why do you think a day will dawn where the EU will say we'll sell you our goods,, but we wont buy any of yours.
Not only will it never happen, but the longer we are out the less influence they'll have. As we find alternative markets for our goods, and alternative sources for our supplies.

I'm not convinced we have this passed yet, so I'm not going to celebrate. I'm not overjoyed with Boris's deal, although it is slightly better than May's, and no one has mentioned the money yet. But if it does get through, I look forward to Brexit +1, when people look back and say, was that it. All the scaremongering will be proved to be just that.

[aggi]

As do the rich businessmen and media moguls like Murdoch. Its far easy to buy and corrupt govt policy at the expense of things like workers rights and taxation at national level than it is at EU level.

There's the famous Murdoch quote (although unsurprisingly he now denies it):

“I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union.

“‘That’s easy,’ he replied. ‘When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.’

[aggi]

Firstly, if you dont want to see working rights and environmental protections eroded, vote for a party that will protect them.
Secondly, there is NO SCENARIO, whatsoever, whereby the EU is going to day we wont trade with Britain. Germany is on the brink of a recession, if they hit it, the whole future of the European Empire could collapse. The last thing they are going to do is tell Britain we arent going to sell you anything anymore.

This is the sort of bullshit that only an idiot would believe. European banks would have a fit, euro businesses would be screwed, the people would tear down Brussels brick by brick.
What sort of trade deal we get is debatable, the fact that we might not get one is rubbish

You can't beat a bit of "they need us more than we need them".

On an unrelated note, about 7% of Germany's exports go to the UK. About 45% of the UK's exports go to the EU.

[Lancasterclaret]

Denmark PM and Merkel both happy to offer extension if this deal doesn't go through.

[dsr]

There's the famous Murdoch quote (although unsurprisingly he now denies it):

“I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union.

“‘That’s easy,’ he replied. ‘When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.’

That's not a Murdoch quote - that's an anonymous quote of someone who is quoting Murdoch. A double quote. Who is quoting Murdoch, and does that person stand by it?

[RingoMcCartney]

Fascinating insight into your mind there Ringo

Quick question if you don't mind

Why is Farage against this deal? (genuine question as I can't see why he would be)

TWO POINTS

1 The deal is , probably, not a clean enough brexit for Farage.





2 My mind reflects -


given this weeks ComRes poll , (majority want to leave)


the 2016 People's Vote, (majority voted leave)


the 2017 genera election result (where 84% of the People voted for referendum respecting parties)


and the 2019 EU parliamentary election (brexit party won)


What the majority think. (Bad news for Remainiacs)

[aggi]

Catching up after a long day......

Johnson and Cummings have played a blinder with their threat to go no deal and to then damage rival’s economies. Varadkar must have broken the Irish 1500m record in racing to the table.

It has cost Johnson 21 MPs he had to sack, but the crucial bit is which of these will vote for him on Saturday. If they do he will welcome them back in with a mild rebuke.

I expect his vote to succeed after an amendment, supported by the government, to build current workers rights into law (which, in a minority, is a big win for Labour, because the Tories can’t revoke it later).

Yep, they've played a blinder in resurrecting a deal that the EU floated a few years ago but was rejected by the UK. I just don't know how they've managed it.

[AndyClaret]

Xavier bettal says the choice is deal or no deal.

[Lowbankclaret]

Better make this clear because I'm not sure this is getting through to the ones who minds are closed to anyone who doesn't agree with their extreme views.

This is a deal that sorts the Irish Border, this is a deal that is better than a "No Deal". With a bit of tweaking to the Political Agreement it could even be a good deal. But at the moment its a shite deal, but its better than "No Deal".

I'm gutted that we are leaving and I will always back going back into the EU, but I back this deal as it satisfies the referendum result.

But on Nov 1st, I'll be joining the Lib Dems and actively campaigning to get us back into the EU at the earliest opportunity.

There may not be an EU to rejoin in future years. I have said and still maintain it collapse ultimately.

The Middle East is once again descending into chaos.
We disagreed on what Trumps reaction would be, I said he would walk away, you thought he would go to war.

That chaos/war will escalate in my opinion and Trump is not going to intervene.

That will have an impact on the EU and there is no way they will get involved.

Going to be some rocky years ahead.

[Jakubclaret]

*Sigh*

Where are all these untapped markets we don't trade with?

Seriously mate, do some actual research on this.

I never mentioned untapped markets you did, more flexibility & having more freedom to explore other markets wouldn't be such a bad thing, Norway Switzerland & Iceland don't seem to be doing to bad for themselves, I'm busy now so a late reply is likely on any sensible forthcoming response,

[aggi]

Amazing watching question time.
Banardoes exec earns £200k , he works for a charity FFS.
That’s more then the prime minister and he does **** all for anyone.

How much do you think someone who runs a company turning over ~ £300m a year should be paid? Just because it's a charity should they work for free? Do you want the best person running that charity or one who is happy to do it for a fraction of the pay but may not be as good?

[Lancasterclaret]

There may not be an EU to rejoin in future years. I have said and still maintain it collapse ultimately.

The Middle East is once again descending into chaos.
We disagreed on what Trumps reaction would be, I said he would walk away, you thought he would go to war.

That chaos/war will escalate in my opinion and Trump is not going to intervene.

That will have an impact on the EU and there is no way they will get involved.

Going to be some rocky years ahead.

You lot appear to be convinced that the EU is going to collapse.

Face facts lads, the UK is going to collapse before they do.

[martin_p]

Just how desperate are you!!!

Not desperate enough to lie like you do.

[Lancasterclaret]

I never mentioned untapped markets you did, more flexibility & having more freedom to explore other markets wouldn't be such a bad thing, Norway Switzerland & Iceland don't seem to be doing to bad for themselves, I'm busy now so a late reply is likely on any sensible forthcoming response,

**** a duck

Did he really mention those three countries?

Give me ******* strength

[nil_desperandum]

I'm not convinced we have this passed yet, so I'm not going to celebrate. I'm not overjoyed with Boris's deal, although it is slightly better than May's, and no one has mentioned the money yet.

What do you mean?
It's in the WA, which as I predicted is substantially May's WA.
(95% unchanged according to the analysts, and the only changes, are to accommodate Johnson caving in over the Irish Sea border. May could have done this, but her loyal party would have been outraged)
The only other changes affect the "Future Arrangements" but these aren't legally binding anyway. They're a sort of road map.

[Spijed]

A question for Crosspool and Colburn,

How on earth can we be allowed to be less PC when we leave the EU and yet tighten up laws with regards to racism?

[martin_p]

I never mentioned untapped markets you did, more flexibility & having more freedom to explore other markets wouldn't be such a bad thing, Norway Switzerland & Iceland don't seem to be doing to bad for themselves, I'm busy now so a late reply is likely on any sensible forthcoming response,

Norway, Switzerland and Iceland are all part of the EEA which gives the access to the single market and also free movement of people. It’s the sort of model we should have aimed for.

[Imploding Turtle]

A question for Crosspool and Colburn,

How on earth can we be allowed to be less PC when we leave the EU and yet tighten up laws with regards to racism?

You have to be well practiced in making two contradictory arguments at the same time to understand how that's possible.

And of course, pointing out their contradiction only makes them more angry and more right-wing.

These people cannot be reasoned with.

[RingoMcCartney]

Not desperate enough to lie like you do.

Why not take your own mind numbingly boring advice.
Go on the iplayer, and painstakingly trawl through last night's Question Time , counting where it is , where a member of the audience tells the panel, "to just get on with it," (or words to that effect) If it turns out that it wasn't the 2nd audience member it was actually the 3rd or 5th and then followed by several others. You can give yourself a big pat on the back!



While your on your open top bus tour of the Wirral, just pause for a moment and reflect on the fact that.

I probably didn't even need to watch it last night to know that a member of the audience would do what they do pretty much every week since the referendum.

2nd , 3rd, 4th or 10th? Who cares!?


Apart from you!

[RingoMcCartney]

That’s just not true.
Anyone with access to the iPlayer can check it out if they want. The first audience interactions

were people laying into Matt Hancock and his lying government (to rapturous applause).

Marty- helping others to start the weekend with a smile!


Good on yer Marty!

[martin_p]

Why not take your own mind numbingly boring advice.
Go on the iplayer, and painstakingly trawl through last night's Question Time , counting where it is , where a member of the audience tells the panel, "to just get on with it," (or words to that effect) If it turns out that it wasn't the 2nd audience member it was actually the 3rd or 5th and then followed by several others. You can give yourself a big pat on the back!



While your on your open top bus tour of the Wirral, just pause for a moment and reflect on the fact that.

I probably didn't even need to watch it last night to know that a member of the audience would do what they do pretty much every week since the referendum.

2nd , 3rd, 4th or 10th? Who cares!?


Apart from you!

It’s symptomatic of you general disregard for facts of any kind. It’s fine, I know having to engage with any of the facts on Brexit would seriously challenge your world view, I get why it’s better to ignore them.

[AndyClaret]

Leave.eu come out for the deal, farage isolated.

[Jakubclaret]

Norway, Switzerland and Iceland are all part of the EEA which gives the access to the single market and also free movement of people. It’s the sort of model we should have aimed for.

All this seem to be at odds with the model LC desires for the UK, he seemed outraged at the suggestion & the free movement of people is unlikely to be a destination for the numbers wishing to migrate in large numbers anyhow, you hear about calais ect trying to get here but not in them countries.

[willsclarets]

TWO POINTS

1 The deal is , probably, not a clean enough brexit for Farage.

The same Nigel Farage that once said:
"Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing"

[Lancasterclaret]

Gotta love Dominic Raab

Hails the deal as brilliant for Ni as it gives them frictionless access to the EU single market.

Hell, if only that was something we could have eh?

[Lowbankclaret]

How much do you think someone who runs a company turning over ~ £300m a year should be paid? Just because it's a charity should they work for free? Do you want the best person running that charity or one who is happy to do it for a fraction of the pay but may not be as good?

I completely disagree with charities paying salaries that high.

I also think there would be people just capable who would work for significantly less.

When my ex worked for the Red Cross, I was disgusted at the salaries paid to execs. Also the fact that volunteers were doing duties at say Man City as first aiders and Man City would pay the Red Cross significantly less than minimum wage for their services.

Whilst they do a fantastic job, it all appeared to be run terribly. So they certainly don’t earn their corn in my opinion.