Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[AndyClaret]

The EU won't respond to the letter until after the vote, thus no need for an extension.

[Lancasterclaret]

Numbers in Parliament explained

- for the deal

- for a Vote of No confidence and then an election (obviously after securing an extension (which they already have)

https://twitter.com/DomWalsh13/status/1 ... 2015229952" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[willsclarets]

The EU won't respond to the letter until after the vote, thus no need for an extension.

Fu*k me this is frustrating.

[Lancasterclaret]

The EU won't respond to the letter until after the vote, thus no need for an extension.

And they won't refuse an extension.

I mean, seriously, when is this going to get through to you lot?

You have to acknowledge reality on this.

We know you are not this thick, why are you acting as if you are and also giving away that you don't care if what you write on here is ********?

Its also massively disrespectful to those of us who try to talk to you like you aren't a complete idiot.

[AndyClaret]

And they won't refuse an extension.

I mean, seriously, when is this going to get through to you lot?

You have to acknowledge reality on this.

If the deal passes on Tuesday, we don't need an extension, why are you denying reality ?

[Lancasterclaret]

If the deal passes on Tuesday, we don't need an extension, why are you denying reality ?

Because you can't use leverage of "Deal or No Deal"

And the Letwin amendment is still there, whatever funny ideas the Brexit newspapers and websites have put into your head this morning

[Lancasterclaret]

Anyway, I'll leave reality denying to you lot for the day.

Off up Pen-y-ghent

[AndyClaret]

Because you can't use leverage of "Deal or No Deal"

And the Letwin amendment is still there, whatever funny ideas the Brexit newspapers and websites have put into your head this morning

You've already admitted he has the numbers, the deal will pass on Tuesday, no extension required.

[Jakubclaret]

Anyway, I'll leave reality denying to you lot for the day.

Off up Pen-y-ghent

Lightweight do whernside.

[AndyClaret]

Amber Rudd tells sky news that she and other ex tories will support the deal, and we can leave without an extension.

[Devils_Advocate]

The Letwin amendment was not designed to stop a deal being agreed and forcing an extension Andy. It was to ensure that if the deal wan not completed by the 31st Oct (passing the motion is only one small step) we would not crash out on No Deal.

You have the numbers as LC keeps saying and if you get it through anytime in the next 11 days we are out.

If it gets to the stage it looks certain but may take a few extra days or a week then the EU will likely just grant a short extension to complete.

If Johnson however tries some tricks or there is some stuff buried in the deal that is not acceptable and the deal breaks down the EU can grant us a longer extension to sort it out.

The key thing in all this is No Deal is off the table

[willsclarets]

The Letwin amendment was not designed to stop a deal being agreed and forcing an extension Andy. It was to ensure that if the deal wan not completed by the 31st Oct (passing the motion is only one small step) we would not crash out on No Deal.

You have the numbers as LC keeps saying and if you get it through anytime in the next 11 days we are out.

If it gets to the stage it looks certain but may take a few extra days or a week then the EU will likely just grant a short extension to complete.

If Johnson however tries some tricks or there is some stuff buried in the deal that is not acceptable and the deal breaks down the EU can grant us a longer extension to sort it out.

The key thing in all this is No Deal is off the table

This has been explained so many times on this thread, but it doesn't seem to be sticking.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Amber Rudd tells sky news that she and other ex tories will support the deal, and we can leave without an extension.

Wonderful news, let's get brexit done.

Here's looking forward to seeing the bill and its amendments become law this week.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Maybe someone can explain why they didn't vote on Saturday after the Letwin amendment passed?
I don't get it, unless I'm mistaken it didn't have a second referendum amendment which meant they couldn't really add one later, he had the numbers (as everyone keeps pointing out) and it didn't leave a window for a no confidence vote (could there possibly be one on Monday morning before the gov resubmits the meaningful vote bill?)

The more I think about it the stranger it seems, Tories usually take a heavy defeat with a pinch of salt, like water off a duck's back but they sat there looking stunned. Boris himself looked like somebody had slapped his face.

A vote on something stopping no deal as a sort of insurance that the deal went through has turned into no meaningful vote.

[AndyClaret]

Gove confirms that no deal preparations are being ramped up thanks to letwin, well done everyone.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Yesterday’s Lord Pannick amendment (in the name of his stooge, Letwin), was nothing to do with no deal.

It was a cunning attempt by Gina Millar’s QC to amend the legislation to deliver a very soft Brexit and then put it to the people in a second referendum.

They cannot risk the Withdrawal Agreement (unamendable, as an international treaty) being voted on before the Withdrawal Agreement Implementation Bill (which IS amendable), and which the government will now table tomorrow. The aim being to remove Boris in a vote of no confidence and put a very soft Brexit to a second referendum vote against Remain.

It’s all very complicated but having studied the tweets of multiple barristers it appears that was (is?) the plan.

This lot are like a nest of vipers. You can’t take your eyes off them for a minute.

[Devils_Advocate]

Gove confirms that no deal preparations are being ramped up thanks to letwin, well done everyone.

More bluster and bullsh*t for fools like you to lap up. There is a clear reason Gove is making these comments and its got nothing to do with any real risk for No Deal

[Imploding Turtle]

More bluster and bullsh*t for fools like you to lap up. There is a clear reason Gove is making these comments and its got nothing to do with any real risk for No Deal

Yep. It's because the government want the credit for avoiding No Deal.

[RingoMcCartney]

Lightweight do whernside.

Pussy. Do all 3.

[Jakubclaret]

Pussy. Do all 3.

When he comes back online after the altitude inspired walk, reality may be acknowledged & accepted

[BennyD]

But so far as I can see he's never once said anything in support of Abbott or Corbyn. He was merely questioning how someone's facial characteristics affected their ability to be effective at their job. It was you that implied that "ugliness" was a factor in determining someone's competence.
Stupidity, as you stated, should normally be regarded as an impediment to effectiveness, but it's inappropriate to link competence / effectiveness with someone's physical features.
This is the sort of unpleasant tactic the right wing press used against Ed Miliband.

And this is the sort of tactic used by remain; pick a fight over something as trivial as this just to try and prove a point. Let me explain; I observed that Corbyn and Abbott are ugly and stupid, he came back and tried to imply that I said ugly people cant make decisions, I ignored the clumsy attempt to change the thrust of my words and made the reply in the same context as the original post ie relating to Corbyn and Abbott being stupid, and then you wade in to pick a fight on the semantics of what you thought I meant. I’m sure you can find a phone box to have a fight in but I’m out of this pointless argument with people like you. Btw, if I was to join in your pedantry, nowhere did I say that ugly people, other than Corbyn and Abbott, couldn’t make decisions.

[RingoMcCartney]

You are asking me if I'm going to vote Lib Dem if they support a revoking of Article 50.

Every answer I've given you tells you the answer.

And you have , indeed, confirmed previously, with

Of course

You also said about any party that achieves a majority or can form a majority government

in theory with a majority they could do whatever they wanted

So you've admitted that , even though you may not agree with everything in a manifesto, youd vote for a party that would stop brexit without a referendum

Given the inevitable purge, and deselection of remainers in the Tory party before a general election. The tory party could go into an election on a ticket of leaving the EU without a referendum or form a coalition with the brexit who certainly would.

So again, I ask you, if a party has been elected on a manifesto pledge to take us out of the European Union without a referendum, did just that?

Be honest.

How would you feel?

[RingoMcCartney]

When he comes back online after the altitude inspired walk, reality may be acknowledged & accepted

Lancasterclaret is well adapted to altitude.












He rarely gets off his high horse.

[evensteadiereddie]

Weird that you should call any politician ugly when you're in a political discussion, Benny, to be honest. A politician's alleged stupidity is relevant, their looks not.
If your view is justified, any discussion of Michael Gove wouldn't get past the first sentence.

[Lowbankclaret]

There was some discussion that the speaker will not allow the deal to be brought back to Parliament on Monday.

I cannot remember the specifics of the reason, but possibly not being able to bring same bill back twice .

[Spijed]

This lot are like a nest of vipers. You can’t take your eyes off them for a minute.

Well, blame Teresa May for destroying the Conservative majority at the last election and Boris Johnson for removing the whip from a number of MP's

You've only got yourself to blame if the Conservatives lose any votes in parliament.

[BennyD]

There was some discussion that the speaker will not allow the deal to be brought back to Parliament on Monday.

I cannot remember the specifics of the reason, but possibly not being able to bring same bill back twice .

Bercow should be sacked, his blatant bias towards remaining makes his constitutional position as a neutral completely untenable. He’s a disgrace.

[Imploding Turtle]

Bercow should be sacked, his blatant bias towards remaining makes his constitutional position as a neutral completely untenable. He’s a disgrace.

No he shouldn't.

[martin_p]

Gove confirms that no deal preparations are being ramped up thanks to letwin, well done everyone.

If he’s only ramping them up now it’s far too late. This government really do take people for idiots don’t they.

[bobinho]

Anyone surprised to see our MP voting with the magic grandpa?

[AndrewJB]

Well, blame Teresa May for destroying the Conservative majority at the last election and Boris Johnson for removing the whip from a number of MP's

You've only got yourself to blame if the Conservatives lose any votes in parliament.

Especially astounding when we see the blatant attempts at circumventing laws, misusing procedure, and dripfeeding threats that this government has done in just a couple of months.

[Lowbankclaret]

Bercow should be sacked, his blatant bias towards remaining makes his constitutional position as a neutral completely untenable. He’s a disgrace.

In this instance he is probably correct to procedures.

[BennyD]

If the bill was helpful to the remainers he would make ‘a special exception‘ as many times as required. Not once has he ruled against anything that is beneficial to the remain cause.

[RingoMcCartney]

Message for that nest of democracy denying snakes in parliament-


"THE BALLOT BOX AWAITS YOU"

[Devils_Advocate]

I think its great that we have MPs principled enough to continue to do whats right for the country and its people even if it costs them their job and career

The career politicians who are just vote chasers without conviction are the ones we would be better off without

[Spijed]

The career politicians who are just vote chasers without conviction are the ones we would be better off without

The likes of John Mann spring to mind

[Darthlaw]

I think its great that we have MPs principled enough to continue to do whats right for the country and its people even if it costs them their job and career

I think you can count the number of MP’s like that on one hand.

[RingoMcCartney]

If the bill was helpful to the remainers he would make ‘a special exception‘ as many times as required. Not once has he ruled against anything that is beneficial to the remain cause.

From the Remain leaning, Sunday Mail-


Speaker John Bercow's own deputy says he has 'strayed' from the rule of law amid fury at his tactics to aid Remainer MPs fighting to block Brexit


Dame Eleanor Laing suggested Mr Bercow had been 'aggressive and arrogant' as she laid out her pitch to replace him in the chair next month.  

Writing in the Sunday Telegraph, the Conservative MP said there was a 'perception that our tried and tested constitutional traditions are being manipulated in order to load the dice in one particular direction'. 

Mr Bercow, who voted to stay in the EU, has been widely accused of using his position to help Remainers during the heated Brexit debates of recent months. 

'The Speaker needs to be an independent anchor of our proceedings, unaffected by an allegiance to any political objective or to any party or group within Parliament, upholding our rules and conventions and applying them consistently,' Dame Eleanor wrote. 

'That principle, the rule of law, has bound this country together for centuries and is the fundamental basis of our constitution.

'It seems as if we have strayed from these concepts in the recent past and too many decisions have been made behind closed doors.'


And dont forget, Bercow who has been accused of bullying and sexually inappropriate behaviour with staff. He was at the centre of the QC lead independent inquiry into bullying, abusive and inappropriate sexual behaviour that recommended a root and branch reform of the culture in Westminster. Leading to the comments "the fish always rots from its head"

When Bercow was not removed from his post, it left womens group's and women's shelter groups bewildered and shocked. Particularly when saw heard Margaret Hodge, Jess Philips and Emily Thornberry running to Bercows defence and throwing years of campaigning on womens issues and principles out of the window. Hodge said," bercow must be kept in place to help stop brexit" as did emily Thornberry.

[Mala591]

By NOT granting an extension the EU now has the power to clarify to the UK parliament that their only options are the new 'deal' or a no-deal exit. They should be brave and announce tomorrow that NO extension will be granted.

[Darthlaw]

By NOT granting an extension the EU now has the power to clarify to the UK parliament that their only options are the new 'deal' or a no-deal exit. They should be brave and announce tomorrow that NO extension will be granted.

Remainers assure us that the EU do not need us and, if anything, surely they would like to get some certainty for their members. Why would they offer us an extension?

[Devils_Advocate]

Remainers assure us that the EU do not need us and, if anything, surely they would like to get some certainty for their members. Why would they offer us an extension?

Been covered on here many times. The EU do not want to be seen to play any part in us leaving with No Deal. It is for us to make that decision and not to just stumble into it because the EU wouldn't allow us the additional time to sort it out ourselves

[Darthlaw]

Been covered on here many times. The EU do not want to be seen to play any part in us leaving with No Deal. It is for us to make that decision and not to just stumble into it because the EU wouldn't allow us the additional time to sort it out ourselves

Sure. The EU are saving us from ourselves. Remind me why the EU would be to blame because we ran ourselves out of time?

[dsr]

Been covered on here many times. The EU do not want to be seen to play any part in us leaving with No Deal. It is for us to make that decision and not to just stumble into it because the EU wouldn't allow us the additional time to sort it out ourselves

Additional time? How much time, and how many more extensions, do we need? Remember we aren't due a general election until 2022, and it's possible that is what the Remainers are targeting. They can't yet get Brexit overturned completely, they are frightened of losing an election, but they might be able to keep the status quo of an impotent government and business uncertainty running for a while yet.

[CombatClaret]

Some bore from Burnley on the radio again...

Gem of wisdom: A second referendum would upset Labour leave voters.
Fails to explain the benefits Brexit for said any UK citizen.

Got nothing left except 'we voted for it'.

[BennyD]

Message for that nest of democracy denying snakes in parliament-


"THE BALLOT BOX AWAITS YOU"

Typo? THE B0LL0X BAT AWAITS YOU is more appropriate.

[Imploding Turtle]

Watching traitors to democracy pretending to give a **** about democracy is one of my favourite pastimes. Hey Ringo, Hey Benny.

[Devils_Advocate]

Sure. The EU are saving us from ourselves. Remind me why the EU would be to blame because we ran ourselves out of time?

No the EU aren't saving us from ourselves they are staying out of our internal affairs and decision making. Their only part to play is in negotiating a deal with us. What we then decide including a decision to leave with no deal is up to us.

Its somewhat ironic that hardline Brexiteers want the EU to put a deadline in place to help them get through their preferred out come without Parliament support

[Devils_Advocate]

Additional time? How much time, and how many more extensions, do we need? Remember we aren't due a general election until 2022, and it's possible that is what the Remainers are targeting. They can't yet get Brexit overturned completely, they are frightened of losing an election, but they might be able to keep the status quo of an impotent government and business uncertainty running for a while yet.

Great but this is our mess to sort out and the EU want to play no part in it and imposing a deadline for us to adhere to would do that

[AndrewJB]

Additional time? How much time, and how many more extensions, do we need? Remember we aren't due a general election until 2022, and it's possible that is what the Remainers are targeting. They can't yet get Brexit overturned completely, they are frightened of losing an election, but they might be able to keep the status quo of an impotent government and business uncertainty running for a while yet.

If the government had actually consulted with people, and negotiated a simple soft Brexit back in 2017, we’d already be out now. The only reason we are where we are is because the government insisted on doing it all alone, and aimed at quite a hard Brexit, which involved the most complicated negotiations - requiring (as we’ve seen) big concessions to the EU over the NI border. As all of this has unravelled, proved impossible to build a majority consensus for, and strengthened support for not leaving at all, there is no doubt in my mind that the approach was all wrong.

Again - a soft leave in 2017 would have saved us years of wrangling, wasted money and effort, and we’d be out (so further ahead than we are now).

[Spijed]

I presume that with the Withdrawal Agreement Bill it'll get passed, perhaps with an amendment, then go to the House or Lords, who can add other amendments, before passing it back.

I just wondered if further amendments can then be added at that stage, before it goes back to the House of Lords again once again?