Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:46 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I humbly suggest they now have to bring forward an amendable bill.

An amendment to add the custom union which will have the support of the house, will effectively kill his deal.

That’s what , I have read is the opponents plan.

And that has to pass.

I don't think it will.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:47 pm

This may go on for years yet. Will the EU get fed up of offering extensions before the next election in May 2022? Because at present, Labour's policy is for a pseudo-referendum offering Remain or neo-Remain, and they can't get it through until there is a general election; and their policy on a general election is to put it off because they think they will lose.

The problem with the bill is that Parliament doesn't need to amend it very much to kill it completely. Johnson hasn't a hope, even if he wanted to, of saying "yes, I'll sign the agreement, but these points have to be changed" - the EU won't stand for it. Johnson's deal has to go through as it stands, or there will be no deal at all until after an election. Which we aren't going to get unless Johnson can somehow force it through.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:49 pm

So the HoC won't agree on any deal.

They want to amend an international treaty, which they can't actually do.

They won't hold a vote of no confidence in the PM/Government and they won't agree to a GE.

A number of MP's made promises to get Brexit done without actually understanding what it entailed...

Now I'm sure I've seen time and again that it's brexiteers who're apparently the embarrassment to the country.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:49 pm

dsr wrote:This may go on for years yet. Will the EU get fed up of offering extensions before the next election in May 2022? Because at present, Labour's policy is for a pseudo-referendum offering Remain or neo-Remain, and they can't get it through until there is a general election; and their policy on a general election is to put it off because they think they will lose.

The problem with the bill is that Parliament doesn't need to amend it very much to kill it completely. Johnson hasn't a hope, even if he wanted to, of saying "yes, I'll sign the agreement, but these points have to be changed" - the EU won't stand for it. Johnson's deal has to go through as it stands, or there will be no deal at all until after an election. Which we aren't going to get unless Johnson can somehow force it through.

Crikey, not like you to look at it without considering alternatives you might not agree with is it?

There are loads of perfectly passible deals here.

its just that Johnson and his band of economy wreckers want only their one to be considered.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:50 pm

Absolutely shocked at Bercows decision. SHOCKED!!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:51 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:So the HoC won't agree on any deal.

They want to amend an international treaty, which they can't actually do.

They won't hold a vote of no confidence in the PM/Government and they won't agree to a GE.

A number of MP's made promises to get Brexit done without actually understanding what it entailed...

Now I'm sure I've seen time and again that it's brexiteers who're apparently the embarrassment to the country.

And they are.

The ERG and the DUP have done more to hold this up than anyone else.

The Conservatives ****** up in 2017 by trying to destroying the opposition and massively misreading the country.

This isn't a great look for anyone, but to pretend that Brexiteers haven't come out incredibly badly from this is a fantasy.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:51 pm

I love how the Brexit nutters who have been rejecting the idea of a second referendum on the basis that they don't want us to have vote after vote after vote, are now upset that they are not getting the chance in parliament to debate a topic that was already settled.

claret_in_exile · Post by **claret_in_exile** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:52 pm

Honestly, I don't see a way out of this impasse without another General Election fought, primarily, over the implementation of Brexit.

There's a good chance of there being a hung parliament, but there's ZERO chance of getting something passed as the parliamentary arithmetic stands right now.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:53 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:So the HoC won't agree on any deal.

They want to amend an international treaty, which they can't actually do.

They won't hold a vote of no confidence in the PM/Government and they won't agree to a GE.

A number of MP's made promises to get Brexit done without actually understanding what it entailed...

Now I'm sure I've seen time and again that it's brexiteers who're apparently the embarrassment to the country.

In fact the deal was agreed by default on Saturday, but the Letwin amendment made it meaningless. The government didn’t withdraw the motion after the Letwin amendment was agreed and it went through ‘on the nod’.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:53 pm

Sir Bernard Jenkins basically is Colburn Claret.

He's making it up as he goes along.

Who the hell knighted this idiot?

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:54 pm

Murger wrote:Absolutely shocked at Bercows decision. SHOCKED!!

He’s following procedure, as is his job.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:54 pm

martin_p wrote:He’s following procedure, as is his job.

They want a dictatorship.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:56 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:They want a dictatorship.

Yes, it turns out when they talked about wanting sovereignty back is was the pre Magna Carta version they were talking about.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:59 pm

Bercow absolutely destroying them in the house. Honesty, logic and facts aren't the Brexiteers strong points

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:00 pm

Its all electioneering by the Conservatives.

I don't know why they are bothering, the people who believe this rubbish are not suddenly going to go "My god! How daft is it that I've been believing this kind of stuff?"

Turftalkers mentor · Post by **Turftalkers mentor** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:05 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I love how the Brexit nutters who have been rejecting the idea of a second referendum on the basis that they don't want us to have vote after vote after vote, are now upset that they are not getting the chance in parliament to debate a topic that was already settled.

Spot On

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:05 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:And that has to pass.

I don't think it will.

The claims in the press, where I came across this. It did say that the DUP , Lib Dem’s and Labour would support that amendment.

They thought it would pass.

Now I am not sure why this is so contentious.

I don’t think this means no deal will get through.

I think we will have the extension the EU has apparently granted today. Possibly with a GE.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:06 pm

martin_p wrote:Yes, it turns out when they talked about wanting sovereignty back is was the pre Magna Carta version they were talking about.

You cannot get an accurate worldview of these people based on believing what these people claim to believe. They argued that we should leave the EU because the EU are stopping us from stopping immigration, but the EU were doing no such thing, but they still want to leave. They argued that we should leave the eU to reclaim our parliamentary sovereignty, but when parliament exercises its sovereignty they seem to really hate it. They claimed we should slave the EU because "British laws in British courts", but when courts make judgements they don't like they call the judges the "Enemies of the people".

They're liars to their core. They vote for liars, they don't care that they're voting for liars, and they'll lie about what they claim to believe. So you can't form a coherent worldview based on what they claim to believe, because they even lie about what they claim to believe. The reality is that this is because they have a world view and are working backwards to justify it in ways that is politically correct. The reality is that they just really hate foreigners, and liberals, and people who don't share their world view.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:06 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:The claims in the press, where I came across this. It did say that the DUP , Lib Dem’s and Labour would support that amendment.

They thought it would pass.

Now I am not sure why this is so contentious.

I don’t think this means no deal will get through.

I think we will have the extension the EU has apparently granted today. Possibly with a GE.

I think that was this morning. Pretty sure the numbers have changed now.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:07 pm

all as predicted
the tide always turns, just a matter of time
GE basically the only way to resolve the impasse

Opposition stated they would go for a GE after no deal off the table and an extension granted I believe, almost there for that now, so we will see if they actually go that route or not.

Waiting for the next exciting adventure of Brexit, more twists and turns than the big dipper.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:09 pm

KateR wrote:all as predicted
the tide always turns, just a matter of time
GE basically the only way to resolve the impasse

Opposition stated they would go for a GE after no deal off the table and an extension granted I believe, almost there for that now, so we will see if they actually go that route or not.

Waiting for the next exciting adventure of Brexit, more twists and turns than the big dipper.

See what happens tomorrow, but once extension is in place, a GE follows and a probable hung parliament.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:09 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:The claims in the press, where I came across this. It did say that the DUP , Lib Dem’s and Labour would support that amendment.

They thought it would pass.

Now I am not sure why this is so contentious.

I don’t think this means no deal will get through.

I think we will have the extension the EU has apparently granted today. Possibly with a GE.

Where are these claims. The Lib Dem’s haven’t said anything official yet, after all they want to remain and this would be supporting a ‘soft brexit’. There’s been indication that the DUP won’t support it, although again nothing official (and it makes less sense for them not to support it to be honest). The SNP haven’t said anything yet either.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:12 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I love how the Brexit nutters who have been rejecting the idea of a second referendum on the basis that they don't want us to have vote after vote after vote, are now upset that they are not getting the chance in parliament to debate a topic that was already settled.

If that’s aimed at anyway towards me, I can assure you I am not upset about it at all.

I hope it get blocked and we have an extension with an election.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:14 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:If that’s aimed at anyway towards me, I can assure you I am not upset about it at all.

I hope it get blocked and we have an extension with an election.

So what is it about the deal that you don’t like?

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:14 pm

martin_p wrote:Where are these claims. The Lib Dem’s haven’t said anything official yet, after all they want to remain and this would be supporting a ‘soft brexit’. There’s been indication that the DUP won’t support it, although again nothing official (and it makes less sense for them not to support it to be honest). The SNP haven’t said anything yet either.

Perhaps there have been more reports I haven’t seen.

I accept your points, perhaps I am incorrect, and I accept that.

What do you think is going to happen now??

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:15 pm

David TC Davies just skewered him there, uses precedent when it suits, breaks it when it doesn't.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:18 pm

AndyClaret wrote:David TC Davies just skewered him there, uses precedent when it suits, breaks it when it doesn't.

Its hilarious watching Brexiteers losing their **** over this.

they haven't got a leg to stand on.

Haven't we got some actual voting to do?

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:18 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Bercow absolutely destroying them in the house. Honesty, logic and facts aren't the Brexiteers strong points

As a narcissist happily abusing the power his exulted position, ignoring it’s conventional impartiality, allows him,
that is very easy for him to succeed to do.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:19 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:The claims in the press, where I came across this. It did say that the DUP , Lib Dem’s and Labour would support that amendment.

They thought it would pass.

Now I am not sure why this is so contentious.

I don’t think this means no deal will get through.

I think we will have the extension the EU has apparently granted today. Possibly with a GE.

DUP have said they are against, as have loads of others who voted for it last time.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:20 pm

None of you lot going absolutely mad at the government decision to walk out on saturday?

if they hadn't, they wouldn't be in this mess.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:20 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its hilarious watching Brexiteers losing their **** over this.

they haven't got a leg to stand on.

Haven't we got some actual voting to do?

No, because he's just ruled against having a vote.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:21 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:None of you lot going absolutely mad at the government decision to walk out on saturday?

if they hadn't, they wouldn't be in this mess.

We want a clean vote.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:22 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:As a narcissist happily abusing the power his exulted position, ignoring it’s conventional impartiality, allows him,
that is very easy for him to succeed to do.

Dry your eyes mate, the tears seem to be clouding your judgement

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:22 pm

AndyClaret wrote:No, because he's just ruled against having a vote.

Oh Andy

I think you might need to go to your safe space.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:23 pm

AndyClaret wrote:We want a clean vote.

You could have had one on saturday that would have meant us leaving on Oct 31st.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:24 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Dry your eyes mate, the tears seem to be clouding your judgement

Quite a childish response

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:25 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:None of you lot going absolutely mad at the government decision to walk out on saturday?

if they hadn't, they wouldn't be in this mess.

I wouldn't like to blame the entire Brexit farrago on one decision made two days ago.

How would they be "not in this mess" if there had been an indicative vote on Saturday?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:26 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:If that’s aimed at anyway towards me, I can assure you I am not upset about it at all.

I hope it get blocked and we have an extension with an election.

Well, no, but i appreciate you taking the time to clarify matters just in case it might have been.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:27 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:Quite a childish response

But quite fitting for someone whose grasp of the situation is quite simply childlike

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:27 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:You could have had one on saturday that would have meant us leaving on Oct 31st.

Rubbish, it was amended on Saturday.

claret2018 · Post by **claret2018** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:27 pm

AndyClaret wrote:We want a clean vote.

We've already had a vote. Sometimes democracy means you lose.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:27 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:See what happens tomorrow, but once extension is in place, a GE follows and a probable hung parliament.

It's actually spelled "hanged".

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:28 pm

AndyClaret wrote:We want a clean vote.

But not a clean referendum. You couldn't win a clean referendum.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:30 pm

dsr wrote:I wouldn't like to blame the entire Brexit farrago on one decision made two days ago.

How would they be "not in this mess" if there had been an indicative vote on Saturday?

Because we'd be leaving on Oct 31st.

(there might have had to be a technical extension but we'd be out)

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:32 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:You could have had one on saturday that would have meant us leaving on Oct 31st.

Just asking a question.

What do you think is going to happen next???

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:34 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Just asking a question.

What do you think is going to happen next???

Me?

God knows.

But extension then GE makes sense.

But I have to be honest here, the tactics used by Johnson are **** poor.

Its unnecessary and could be alienating MPs.

He might end up having to deal with a CU amendment to his bill.

He need to focus on Brexit first and electioneering 2nd.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:34 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Because we'd be leaving on Oct 31st.

(there might have had to be a technical extension but we'd be out)

Why? There would be the same problem as we are going to have now, that the Withdrawal Act would be subject to endless amendments and votes, whether an indicative vote had been passed or not.

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:41 pm

AndyClaret wrote:We want a clean vote.

A clean vote, would be one that was given the proper due process in terms of legislating the motion once it was passed. A clean vote, would be one that had precautions in place to stop it becoming a segue for a no deal instead of the deal that was passed in parliament.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:41 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:But not a clean referendum. You couldn't win a clean referendum.

you are clueless on that statement, but like always you make things up and state them as facts, you like every other person in the country may think one thing, doesn't make them a fact

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:43 pm

KateR wrote:you are clueless on that statement, but like always you make things up and state them as facts, you like every other person in the country may think one thing, doesn't make them a fact

I think even the most stupid of moron could realise that i was expressing an opinion.

Not you though. Odd that, eh?