Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:02 am

Now extended to Jan 31st

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:17 am

Spijed wrote:Now extended to Jan 31st

Oh god, I have to drink REMAIN CHAMPAGNE AGAIN!

I'm getting sick of it, just leave already.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:18 am

Spijed wrote:Now extended to Jan 31st

A big ‘well done’ to Johnson for managing to secure an extension.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:19 am

aggi wrote:Why is the vote of war veterans more important than others? And if it is, does the fact that the majority voted to remain not suggest you should be thinking again about this.

I'm not really sure what your point is.

https://youtu.be/ur-o1dp4APU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mixed opinions really, but there's no doubt 100%, it would be disrespectful to some on the basis that there vote won, this is irrefutable conclusive evidence.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:22 am

Three more months of comedy gold from Jakub. Just what I need to get me through the winter months.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:22 am

martin_p wrote:A big ‘well done’ to Johnson for managing to secure an extension.

Well he did write a nice letter to the EU asking for a 3 month extension.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:30 am

31st October 2019 will now be forever remembered as Halloween 2019.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:39 am

Real do. Get that anger up.

General election now and get rid of Labour from Burnley.

Come on Big Nige, Brexit party full steam ahead.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:12 am

Labour MP for Bolton South East just been interviewed on 5Live,my goodness are they all that bad,and to boot she's the Shadow Justice Minister.

She'll abstain in this afternoon's vote,Labour want an election but not until March 2020,and not until no-deal's completely off the table.

They hope to amend the WA bill to include a CU arrangement and maybe SM membership.

But they're not confident enough to go to the public,despite the said MP claiming Corbyn would impress during a campaign and narrow the large Conservative lead.

A minority zombie government and yet the opposition won't commit to a GE,you'd almost think they don't want any responsibility.

Credit Lib Dems and the SNP they are prepared to put their heads on the line.How come they're prepared to accept no-deal is off the table but Labour won't.

Assuming today's vote fails then the single line bill proposed by the Lib Dems/SNP just needs a simple majority,i can see the government supporting that even if they have to park the WA,if the Conservatives emerge with a reasonable working majority,and the WA returns after an election in theory it should be face an easier path through the HOC.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:22 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Real do. Get that anger up.

General election now and get rid of Labour from Burnley.

Come on Big Nige, Brexit party full steam ahead.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:22 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Big Nige

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:23 am

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:

I think the ‘big’ refers to his ego to be fair.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:30 am

If it be your will wrote:It's impossible to prove. In areas with high levels of immigration, wages haven't particularly fallen/risen less quickly than those with low levels of immigration. But that can be immediately explained by immigrants heading to those places with relative labour shortages, where wages might otherwise have risen sharply.

It would be quite something to assume an increase in the supply of labour had absolutely no effect on its price, though. That would upend every economic assumption since Marx said "As the forest of uplifted arms demanding work grows ever thicker, the arms themselves grow ever thinner."

My point is whether immigrant workers depress the wages for local UK workers which is slightly different (I'm assuming not many people voted Brexit because they felt that EU immigrants were getting a raw deal and wanted to help them). Although the low paid work may be filled by immigrant workers, does that mean that UK workers are in better roles with better salaries? (Assuming that the low unemployment rate means that they simply haven't lost their jobs which is obviously a large assumption.)

There's also the question whether geographically mobile people in the UK would have moved to those areas with a higher demand for workers and hence slowed the wage increase.

It seems obvious to think that workers coming from the EU will keep wages down but maybe that wouldn't be the case in the bigger picture. I'm happy to be convinced but for such a large issue there appears to be surprisingly little research.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:12 pm

Greenmile wrote:I don’t know whether you’ve noticed, but I’ve made no claim to a detailed understanding of economics. In my opinion, however, a fall in the pound is good for some and bad for others, but overall it is a bad thing for the UK.

This is where you tell me that I don’t understand economics (I agree), and therefore have no right to ask Paul to substantiate his claims (I disagree).

Sorry for the late reply, but no it wasn't that at all, you partially answered what I was going to say in terms of lot's of people claiming/moaning about Brexit being the cause of the pound falling, it isn't always a bad thing, currency fluctuations are fundamentals and sometimes it's good others bad and can be good and bad at the same time for different people, that's all I was going to mention.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:28 pm

Mala591 wrote:The referendum question would need to be:

'You have already voted to leave the EU. Now you must decide how we leave.'

1. Theresa May's deal with a customs union (soft Brexit)
2. Boris Johnson's deal without a customs union (medium Brexit)
3. No-deal exit (hard Brexit)

But in framing the referendum question that way, it will be instantly apparent that the government isn't remotely interested in the public's opinion on this issue. For all we know, there could be a 60%+ majority who favour remaining in the EU right now, but leavers don't care. Or maybe they do care, and they want to deny people the opportunity to express that view.

The electorate of today is not the exact same electorate of June 2016. For those who might have changed their views on EU membership in that time, why should they be held hostage to something they felt nearly 4 years ago?

The referendum question will have to give people a clear choice between a credible leave option and remaining as a full member.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:42 pm

The electorate wasn't the same 4 years after the vote 40 years ago, but they still held to the decision to be in the EU as it was back then

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:45 pm

Has the toff pansy been found dead in his ditch yet ?

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:57 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Has the toff pansy been found dead in his ditch yet ?

Ohhh wow, at last something so original it made me sit and think really hard about this, so impressed, well done for that original thought, more more more.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:00 pm

That's what they all say, love. "More, more, more !"

I try my best to give it 'em............

I thought your hero said something about being dead in a ditch before surrendering ? Must have been mistaken.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:00 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Has the toff pansy been found dead in his ditch yet ?

1st November

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:03 pm

Just dead will do me !
Only joking !
Honest.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:04 pm

Let's all stop pretending to care about it when no one spoke about it before.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:04 pm

"It" being what ?

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:11 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:That's what they all say, love. "More, more, more !" I try my best to give it 'em............

I thought your hero said something about being dead in a ditch before surrendering ? Must have been mistaken.

well that was a let down after a scintillating start.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:14 pm

It’s actually past the point for finding him dead in a ditch as that phrase was in response to asking the EU for an extension, which as we all know he did.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:14 pm

In normal times, people would be concerned that the PM appears to be lie through his teeth about everything.

In normal times.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:38 pm

Apparently Tories still desperate to get the WAB before election so might table 4 day timetable with Dec 12th election

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:49 pm

Spijed wrote:Apparently Tories still desperate to get the WAB before election so might table 4 day timetable with Dec 12th election

I think any one line bill they propose after today’s defeat on an election will only get the support it needs unless the WA is off the table until after an election.

Guller Bull · Post by **Guller Bull** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:54 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:In normal times, people would be concerned that the PM appears to be lie through his teeth about everything.

In normal times.

In normal times people would notice that the vast majority of our politicians are snake eyed lying ******** and not give any of them the grace of a vote at an election but these are not normal times and blind allegiance to colour coded politics and thinking will ensure that you continue to widen divisions in our societies and create more and more discord.

Think clearly before you vote again - if you want change then don't vote for the same old ****!

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:59 pm

Guller Bull wrote:
Think clearly before you vote again - if you want change then don't vote for the same old ****!

I can see that on a Brexit Party billboard

Guller Bull · Post by **Guller Bull** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:04 pm

Carry on then and your opponent will vote in opposition to you, you will continue to nullify each other and encourage crap governance. The divides will widen and your contempt of each other will increase.

What are you voting for?

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:12 pm

KateR wrote:well that was a let down after a scintillating start.

Story of my life, sweetie ....

Only joking.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:25 pm

Guller Bull wrote:Carry on then and your opponent will vote in opposition to you, you will continue to nullify each other and encourage crap governance. The divides will widen and your contempt of each other will increase.

What are you voting for?

Not Labour or Conservative

It will be a cold day in hell before I vote for the Faragists

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:27 pm

I've got a question for the Leavers:

If Labour become unambiguously a Remain party, and Remain parties combined get more General Election votes than the Leave parties combined, will you support revoking Article 50?

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:28 pm

Jim the washing repair man should be suspended according to report.

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-mp-ke ... e-11847681" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:33 pm

AndyClaret wrote:Jim the washing repair man should be suspended according to report.

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-mp-ke ... e-11847681" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's that got to do with Brexit?

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:37 pm

aggi wrote:My point is whether immigrant workers depress the wages for local UK workers which is slightly different (I'm assuming not many people voted Brexit because they felt that EU immigrants were getting a raw deal and wanted to help them). Although the low paid work may be filled by immigrant workers, does that mean that UK workers are in better roles with better salaries? (Assuming that the low unemployment rate means that they simply haven't lost their jobs which is obviously a large assumption.)

There's also the question whether geographically mobile people in the UK would have moved to those areas with a higher demand for workers and hence slowed the wage increase.

It seems obvious to think that workers coming from the EU will keep wages down but maybe that wouldn't be the case in the bigger picture. I'm happy to be convinced but for such a large issue there appears to be surprisingly little research.

It's like I said, all these things are impossible to prove. You'd have to repeat the experiment with slightly different variables, but it isn't possible to do this in economics (hence 'The dismal science' tag).

That said, if you expand the labour market by 3 million in a decade or so, it would be difficult to imagine that it didn't have a depressant effect on the wage bargaining power, particularly for those jobs the EU migrants are taking. The magnitude of that effect is anyone's guess, though. If you saw the effect with your own eyes, in your own line of work, you'd probably overestimate the effect; If your line of work was not obviously impacted, you'd likely underestimate it.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:39 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:What's that got to do with Brexit?

Nothing, didn't want to start a new politics thread.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:40 pm

How many more jibes before the hooter sounds?

We leave on the 31st October.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:44 pm

We had a £7 billion pound rebate coming from the ECB.

But we don't anymore, cos of Johnson and his Conservative party needs saving deal.

Well played everyone.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:50 pm

Not sure if it is entirely Brexit related, but it does highlight issues with migrant EU workers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50205951" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The question I have is this - If you couldn't purchase ready made pigs in blankets would you:

a/ go without?
b/ purchase some sausages and bacon separately and make some?

Guller Bull · Post by **Guller Bull** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:56 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Not Labour or Conservative

It will be a cold day in hell before I vote for the Faragists

It will be a cold day in Hell before I vote for any party unless they begin to represent us with honesty and dignity. Less Colour coded mantra and more doing the right thing. The vast majority of people in this country are not extreme but our political system as it stands is painting us uncooperative.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:57 pm

Guller Bull wrote:It will be a cold day in Hell before I vote for any party unless they begin to represent us with honesty and dignity. Less Colour coded mantra and more doing the right thing. The vast majority of people in this country are not extreme but our political system as it stands is painting us uncooperative.

Right, so I'll put you down as a Brexit Party supporter.

If you think Farage isn't established elite and isn't as bad, then there is nothing I can say to you that will change your mind.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:01 pm

John Mann no longer an MP as he ups sticks to the House of Lords.

One less vote for the deal.

Normally not an issue, but one vote could make all the difference.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:02 pm

Guller Bull wrote:It will be a cold day in Hell before I vote for any party unless they begin to represent us with honesty and dignity. Less Colour coded mantra and more doing the right thing. The vast majority of people in this country are not extreme but our political system as it stands is painting us uncooperative.

Ok, so let’s assume you’re a Brexit Party supporter. What ‘right things’ do the Brexit Party intend to do other than take us out of the EU (in your opinion)?

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:03 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:John Mann no longer an MP as he ups sticks to the House of Lords.

One less vote for the deal.

Normally not an issue, but one vote could make all the difference.

Johnson just needs to accept that if he wants a general election he needs to forget the WA until it’s over.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:10 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Not sure if it is entirely Brexit related, but it does highlight issues with migrant EU workers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50205951" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The question I have is this - If you couldn't purchase ready made pigs in blankets would you:

a/ go without?
b/ purchase some sausages and bacon separately and make some?

I would of course choose option B. But if everyone did that we'd run out of sausages and bacon. And the EU would be to blame. Probably.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:12 pm

aggi wrote:I've seen surprisingly little research on this given it's understandably an issue. I've seen one heavily caveated piece and that's about it. Although it seems it should be the case there's obviously other factors to consider such as, given the high rates of employment, are the local workers getting higher paid work, would the party be higher than minimum wage, etc? Any links to show that wages will have been depressed?

Besides that point however, how do you think the wages of agricultural workers in Boston will be impacted if we sign free trade agreements throughout the world as you have suggested? Do your think they'll be getting paid above minimum wage whilst competing with cheap imports from overseas?

Those workers in Boston may not be competing directly with EU workers in the same geographic location but, if things go as you want, they'll be competing with workers from all over the world.

It isn’t if things go as I want - there are a thousand and one ways to agree a free trade agreement. I want us to be self sufficient, with low unemployment and with high wage employment. How we get there is for bigger brains than mine to decide.

Regarding the Boston issue, you don’t need to find research, you just need to go to Boston and talk to them, which I have done. They know the impact migration has had on their income, and working hours. It was their choice to vote leave due to it. We don’t need to try to analyse whether they were right, we couldn’t possibly comprehend all the variables affecting their choice.

Gerry Hattrick · Post by **Gerry Hattrick** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:17 pm

[quote="Guller Bull"]In normal times people would notice that the vast majority of our politicians are snake eyed lying ********

Pro rogues!

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:18 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:It isn’t if things go as I want - there are a thousand and one ways to agree a free trade agreement. I want us to be self sufficient, with low unemployment and with high wage employment. How we get there is for bigger brains than mine to decide.

Regarding the Boston issue, you don’t need to find research, you just need to go to Boston and talk to them, which I have done. They know the impact migration has had on their income, and working hours. It was their choice to vote leave due to it. We don’t need to try to analyse whether they were right, we couldn’t possibly comprehend all the variables affecting their choice.

And if we import chickens from America what's that going to do to the farming industry, aside from decimate it?