Could that be true though, that life generally speaking overall as deteriorated over the course of 30 years, doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s outdated assessment, what used to special & enjoyable then could still be the same now in a different set of circumstances.aggi wrote:When you look at the Lord Ashcroft polls just after the Brexit vote the majority of Brexit voters thought that life in Britain today is worse than it was 30 years ago. I suspect it's that attitude which makes people think that Brexit voters are harking back to years gone by.
As to why they think that, that's one for the Brexit voters.
Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020
-
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
- Been Liked: 1185 times
- Has Liked: 779 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
-
- Posts: 10915
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:56 pm
- Been Liked: 5560 times
- Has Liked: 208 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Then you get idiots like ringo listing crap things that have happened over the last 40 years and try to pretend that they are the fault of the EU.Jakubclaret wrote:Could that be true though, that life generally speaking overall as deteriorated over the course of 30 years, doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s outdated assessment, what used to special & enjoyable then could still be the same now in a different set of circumstances.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Are you saying that Momentum are Blairites? They've been one of the drivers in the Labour party having a more pro-remain view. I wouldn't disagree that Corbyn and McDonnell are leavers but they've also said that they will be directed by the party members as to what direction they should go and the members have come out more pro-remain.If it be your will wrote:Your last line is simplistic and shows an abject lack of understanding of what has happened in the Labour party in the last 12 months. The first thing to establish is that Corbyn and Mcdonnell are leavers. They've always been leavers. They've articulately explained why they're leavers many, many times in the past. I agree with them as to why they want to leave the EU. If they really have changed their mind in some 'Road to Demascus' moment, then they need to offer an explanation in order for this dramatic reversal to look credible. They have offered no explanation.
What really happened is this: They had opponents - largely in the Blair camp - and supporters in the socialist camp. Corbyn and McDonnell faced a difficult choice. They could either please their supporters or they could please their opponents. At every turn they foolishly chose the latter - mandatory reselection, IHRA, and now Brexit. Each time they went with appeasing the Blairites. But they were never going to please their opponents whatever they did, and now they're trapped desperately pretending to support things - e.g. 'remain' - they absolutely don't, and looking utterly ridiculous in the process. They were even happy to hang their staunchest supporters like Cris Williamson out to dry to try and please the Blairites.
That's how they've upset both leavers and remainers. Not by triangulation on Brexit, nor by some ham-fisted attempt at uniting the leave and remain camps. They've upset everyone by becoming ridiculous, disingenuous, and embarrassing. The result of this election will be every blairites dream: a heavy Corbyn defeat.
Your version doesn't really seem to tally with what's happened unless you're suggesting the majority of members are Blairites but that doesn't seem to match with Corbyn being elected to leader.
Labour are trying to square the circle of a lot of their active, young members now being relatively socialist but also pro-EU.
-
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
- Been Liked: 1185 times
- Has Liked: 779 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
“Could that be true” was objectively & trying to further what aggi initially posted & hoping this would perhaps prompt another poster to comment how they felt within the last 30 years to build upon what aggi initially posted & try to understand if it’s rational for people to feel that way. Sorry for trying to expand upon aggi post.TheFamilyCat wrote:Then you get idiots like ringo listing crap things that have happened over the last 40 years and try to pretend that they are the fault of the EU.
-
- Posts: 2103
- Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:12 am
- Been Liked: 500 times
- Has Liked: 509 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
It's not squaring circles that's the problem. It's not telling the truth as they see it that's the problem.aggi wrote:Are you saying that Momentum are Blairites? They've been one of the drivers in the Labour party having a more pro-remain view. I wouldn't disagree that Corbyn and McDonnell are leavers but they've also said that they will be directed by the party members as to what direction they should go and the members have come out more pro-remain.
Your version doesn't really seem to tally with what's happened unless you're suggesting the majority of members are Blairites but that doesn't seem to match with Corbyn being elected to leader.
Labour are trying to square the circle of a lot of their active, young members now being relatively socialist but also pro-EU.
Momentum are pro-remain now because the socialists and leavers have left Momentum. Momentum are now an irrelevance - a husk. They've just displayed their irrelevance in the last conference. They've shown their irrelevance in the trigger-ballots, with their preferred candidates losing nearly every time, and they will show their irrelevance again over the next 6 weeks. You can safely ignore Momentum - they're finished.
The blairites, with Remain/Peoples Vote campaign, finally found something where they were in tune with the members. Rather than explaining to the members the possible advantages of leaving (which they did for the previous 40 years), Corbyn and McDonnell immediately caved in instead. Because they caved in without giving this explanation, most members erroneously believe the 2017 manifesto can be implemented as a member of the EU. (Actually, I'm saying that, I think most members - just in the last month or so - have realised just how tight the EU straightjcket is, but it's too late.)
Does it tally a bit better now?
(edit - The 'Are you saying' tactic is a bit tired. Unless, of course, you honestly thought I thought Momentum were Blairites, despite me saying for months Momentum are virtually non-existent. Oh and these 'Active young members' you speak of, I haven't met one since 2017. They've all found better things to do, I think.)
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Whether or not Momentum are relevant in terms of numbers I'd say they are indicative of a branch that is pro-Corbyn and pro-remain. Being in London I may have a different experience but I've met plenty of young, Labour members who are pro-Corbyn and his beliefs and also pro-remain. They seem more willing to compromise on nationalisation, if needs be, than remaining.If it be your will wrote:It's not squaring circles that's the problem. It's not telling the truth as they see it that's the problem.
Momentum are pro-remain now because the socialists and leavers have left Momentum. Momentum are now an irrelevance - a husk. They've just displayed their irrelevance in the last conference. They've shown their irrelevance in the trigger-ballots, with their preferred candidates losing nearly every time, and they will show their irrelevance again over the next 6 weeks. You can safely ignore Momentum - they're finished.
The blairites, with Remain/Peoples Vote campaign, finally found something where they were in tune with the members. Rather than explaining to the members the possible advantages of leaving (which they did for the previous 40 years), Corbyn and McDonnell immediately caved in instead. Because they caved in without giving this explanation, most members erroneously believe the 2017 manifesto can be implemented as a member of the EU. (Actually, I'm saying that, I think most members - just in the last month or so - have realised just how tight the EU straightjcket is, but it's too late.)
Does it tally a bit better now?
(edit - The 'Are you saying' tactic is a bit tired. Unless, of course, you honestly thought I thought Momentum were Blairites, despite me saying for months Momentum are virtually non-existent. Oh and these 'Active young members' you speak of, I haven't met one since 2017. They've all found better things to do, I think.)
I don't think that some more explanation will convince a large part of the Labour membership that they really want to leave, particularly the younger and more recent ones, however much you hope that is the case.
-
- Posts: 2103
- Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:12 am
- Been Liked: 500 times
- Has Liked: 509 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Next time you meet one, ask if they're happy to compromise on reversing NHS outsourcing, the National Investment Bank, and a fully state run National Education Service, too.aggi wrote:Whether or not Momentum are relevant in terms of numbers I'd say they are indicative of a branch that is pro-Corbyn and pro-remain. Being in London I may have a different experience but I've met plenty of young, Labour members who are pro-Corbyn and his beliefs and also pro-remain. They seem more willing to compromise on nationalisation, if needs be, than remaining.
I don't think that some more explanation will convince a large part of the Labour membership that they really want to leave, particularly the younger and more recent ones, however much you hope that is the case.
And if the answer is yes, and they have no particular desire for nationilasation of utilities and rail either, ask them why not just vote Lib Dem then? (Oh, there's the student fees thing, I suppose. They can actually do that one as an EU member. Maybe that's keeping the students on board.)
-
- Posts: 3604
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:05 am
- Been Liked: 2625 times
- Has Liked: 1 time
-
- Posts: 23343
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
- Been Liked: 8058 times
- Has Liked: 4714 times
- Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Happy Brexit Day to you too!
Thats two this year!
Anyway, want to know what the US wants out of a trade deal with the UK?
They have helpfully told everyone what they are aiming for.
https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/Su ... ctives.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thats two this year!
Anyway, want to know what the US wants out of a trade deal with the UK?
They have helpfully told everyone what they are aiming for.
https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/Su ... ctives.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Posts: 23343
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
- Been Liked: 8058 times
- Has Liked: 4714 times
- Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Or if its easier, here is Page 8
Procedural Fairness for Pharmaceuticals and Medical Devices:
- Seek standards to ensure that government regulatory reimbursement regimes are transparent,
provide procedural fairness, are nondiscriminatory, and provide full market access for U.S.
products.
State-Owned and Controlled Enterprises (SOEs):
- Define SOEs on the basis of government ownership or government control through ownership
interests, including situations of control through minority shareholding.
- Retain the ability to support SOEs engaged in providing domestic public services.
- Ensure that SOEs accord non-discriminatory treatment with respect to the purchase and sale of
goods and services.
- Ensure that SOEs act in accordance with commercial considerations with respect to the purchase
and sale of goods and services.
- Ensure strong subsidy disciplines applicable to SOEs, beyond the disciplines set out in the WTO
Agreement on Subsidies and Countervailing Measures (SCM Agreement).
- Require that SOEs not cause harm to the United States through provision of subsidies.
- Require that SOEs not cause harm to the domestic industry of the United States via subsidized
SOE investment.
- Ensure impartial regulation of SOEs, designated monopolies, and private companies.
- Provide jurisdiction to courts over the commercial activities of foreign SOEs.
9
- Allow Parties to request information related to the level of government ownership and control of
a given enterprise and the extent of government support.
- Develop a fact-finding mechanism to help overcome the evidentiary problems associated with
litigation on SOEs.
Procedural Fairness for Pharmaceuticals and Medical Devices:
- Seek standards to ensure that government regulatory reimbursement regimes are transparent,
provide procedural fairness, are nondiscriminatory, and provide full market access for U.S.
products.
State-Owned and Controlled Enterprises (SOEs):
- Define SOEs on the basis of government ownership or government control through ownership
interests, including situations of control through minority shareholding.
- Retain the ability to support SOEs engaged in providing domestic public services.
- Ensure that SOEs accord non-discriminatory treatment with respect to the purchase and sale of
goods and services.
- Ensure that SOEs act in accordance with commercial considerations with respect to the purchase
and sale of goods and services.
- Ensure strong subsidy disciplines applicable to SOEs, beyond the disciplines set out in the WTO
Agreement on Subsidies and Countervailing Measures (SCM Agreement).
- Require that SOEs not cause harm to the United States through provision of subsidies.
- Require that SOEs not cause harm to the domestic industry of the United States via subsidized
SOE investment.
- Ensure impartial regulation of SOEs, designated monopolies, and private companies.
- Provide jurisdiction to courts over the commercial activities of foreign SOEs.
9
- Allow Parties to request information related to the level of government ownership and control of
a given enterprise and the extent of government support.
- Develop a fact-finding mechanism to help overcome the evidentiary problems associated with
litigation on SOEs.
-
- Posts: 2070
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:49 pm
- Been Liked: 819 times
- Has Liked: 26 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Merry Brexmas, and a happy new project fear
-
- Posts: 23343
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
- Been Liked: 8058 times
- Has Liked: 4714 times
- Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Election time!claret2018 wrote:Merry Brexmas, and a happy new project fear
Mis-information and wine!
This user liked this post: CombatClaret
-
- Posts: 19799
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
- Been Liked: 5483 times
- Has Liked: 2540 times
- Location: Burnley, Lancs
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
obviously been a slow day so far
Thought there would have been some trick or treating on here, ohhhh well, maybe people are getting there costumes ready
Thought there would have been some trick or treating on here, ohhhh well, maybe people are getting there costumes ready
-
- Posts: 19799
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
- Been Liked: 5483 times
- Has Liked: 2540 times
- Location: Burnley, Lancs
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Cool, could you post some of the remain campaigns similarly egregious social media ads please, as this is what the topic relates to.houseboy wrote:The OP and the report don't mention Brexit but someone on here had to. Why? To use the leave campaign as an example of political lying is to ignore completely the fact that the remain campaign also lied and continues to do so. Or do you refuse to accept that?
-
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
- Been Liked: 1185 times
- Has Liked: 779 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Granted not a lie, you could call it theft though technically using taxpayers money to fund a remain leaflet we never even asked for.Imploding Turtle wrote:Cool, could you post some of the remain campaigns similarly egregious social media ads please, as this is what the topic relates to.
-
- Posts: 19799
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
- Been Liked: 5483 times
- Has Liked: 2540 times
- Location: Burnley, Lancs
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
We didn't ask for austerity, nor did we ask for billions of our money to go to the banks. But you're upset about a piece of paper with some facts on it.Jakubclaret wrote:Granted not a lie, you could call it theft though technically using taxpayers money to fund a remain leaflet we never even asked for.
Quite the metaphor there, eh?
-
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
- Been Liked: 1185 times
- Has Liked: 779 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
On balance it's rich complaining about lies, if I take money from somebody & spend it on something they don't want or haven't even asked for, in my book that's theft plain & simple.Imploding Turtle wrote:We didn't ask for austerity, nor did we ask for billions of our money to go to the banks. But you're upset about a piece of paper with some facts on it.
Quite the metaphor there, eh?
-
- Posts: 2237
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:37 am
- Been Liked: 1358 times
- Has Liked: 440 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I presume you've seen the news about this latest incident of 'theft' and are pretty unhappy about it?Jakubclaret wrote:Granted not a lie, you could call it theft though technically using taxpayers money to fund a remain leaflet we never even asked for.
Government ministers spending taxpayers money on Facebook ads, targeted at voters in election swing seats:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... da552d92d9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
- Been Liked: 1185 times
- Has Liked: 779 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Theft is theft I won't dispute that, but I do think this is a unfair comparison, let's not lose sight of the scale of the money being spent on both incidents this appears to be specifically targeting leave areas, which you could argue it's a sensible strategy we are talking post referendum at a point where people have already decided, the other incident involved a more expensive large scale nationwide leaflet drop & more importantly at a point pre referendum date, let's be fair John & not try to hoodwink.JohnMcGreal wrote:I presume you've seen the news about this latest incident of 'theft' and are pretty unhappy about it?
Government ministers spending taxpayers money on Facebook ads, targeted at voters in election swing seats:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... da552d92d9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Surprised that no-one's mentioned Trump and his comments (or his interfering in UK politics if you're one of those snowflakes who whinged about Obama I guess) saying that Johnson's deal could rule out a US trade deal.
It may not actually be that bad a thing. I suspect, particularly given our current standard of negotiation, that we'd get royally shafted on any trade deal with the US.
It may not actually be that bad a thing. I suspect, particularly given our current standard of negotiation, that we'd get royally shafted on any trade deal with the US.
-
- Posts: 10328
- Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:36 pm
- Been Liked: 3341 times
- Has Liked: 1964 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Farage was most furious about Obama wasn’t he.aggi wrote:Surprised that no-one's mentioned Trump and his comments (or his interfering in UK politics if you're one of those snowflakes who whinged about Obama I guess) saying that Johnson's deal could rule out a US trade deal.
It may not actually be that bad a thing. I suspect, particularly given our current standard of negotiation, that we'd get royally shafted on any trade deal with the US.
I’m sure he’ll do the same when he hears what Trump has said. He’s a man of principle. He won’t accept it.
-
- Posts: 1349
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:08 pm
- Been Liked: 217 times
- Has Liked: 543 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
The people who were supremely comfortable about Barack Obama, are exactly the same people absolutely furious with Donald Trump.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I assume you can back that up.AndyClaret wrote:The people who were supremely comfortable about Barack Obama, are exactly the same people absolutely furious with Donald Trump.
-
- Posts: 23343
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
- Been Liked: 8058 times
- Has Liked: 4714 times
- Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Obama had some failings as a President, but his big plus point with me is that he wasn't a raving, racist lunatic.AndyClaret wrote:The people who were supremely comfortable about Barack Obama, are exactly the same people absolutely furious with Donald Trump.
These 2 users liked this post: Imploding Turtle longsidepies
-
- Posts: 12370
- Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
- Been Liked: 5210 times
- Has Liked: 921 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Noone's furious with Trump though, his performance with Farage was comedy gold. Its you lot who got upset and are now showing complete hypocrisy which aggi and others are merely pointing outAndyClaret wrote:The people who were supremely comfortable about Barack Obama, are exactly the same people absolutely furious with Donald Trump.
-
- Posts: 19799
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
- Been Liked: 5483 times
- Has Liked: 2540 times
- Location: Burnley, Lancs
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Let's compare. Explain exactly how Obama interfered.AndyClaret wrote:The people who were supremely comfortable about Barack Obama, are exactly the same people absolutely furious with Donald Trump.
BTW, the more Trump interferes by saying Johnson and Farage are the way to go, the happier i'll be.
-
- Posts: 6138
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:53 am
- Been Liked: 2634 times
- Has Liked: 6461 times
- Location: -90.000000, 0.000000
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
not sure if this has been posted, but this is fantastic...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK_pZCktIUs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK_pZCktIUs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
That was a given IT, many will think that way however many won't so it's not really relevant in my mind.Imploding Turtle wrote:Let's compare. Explain exactly how Obama interfered.
BTW, the more Trump interferes by saying Johnson and Farage are the way to go, the happier i'll be.
-
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
- Been Liked: 1185 times
- Has Liked: 779 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
That's a wild thing to say about somebody based on what exactly? I'm not sticking up for him I don't know him, just seems a strong set of words for somebody, it's logical in that to assume you've had some sort of first hand experience to be so confident in that manner.Lancasterclaret wrote:Obama had some failings as a President, but his big plus point with me is that he wasn't a raving, racist lunatic.
-
- Posts: 19799
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
- Been Liked: 5483 times
- Has Liked: 2540 times
- Location: Burnley, Lancs
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Jakubclaret wrote:That's a wild thing to say about somebody based on what exactly? I'm not sticking up for him I don't know him, just seems a strong set of words for somebody, it's logical in that to assume you've had some sort of first hand experience to be so confident in that manner.
You think Obama might have been a raving, racist lunatic?
-
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
- Been Liked: 1185 times
- Has Liked: 779 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Not sure on either tbh, anyway the question was directed towards LC. I've noticed what you seem to do, you don't answer questions even if asked & then bat back with another question & then expect a answer before the initial question as been answered. Quite amusing actually in a odd way.Imploding Turtle wrote:You think Obama might have been a raving, racist lunatic?
-
- Posts: 19799
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
- Been Liked: 5483 times
- Has Liked: 2540 times
- Location: Burnley, Lancs
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
But you haven't asked me a question. Are you feeling OK?Jakubclaret wrote:Not sure on either tbh, anyway the question was directed towards LC. I've noticed what you seem to do, you don't answer questions even if asked & then bat back with another question & then expect a answer before the initial question as been answered. Quite amusing actually in a odd way.
-
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
- Been Liked: 1185 times
- Has Liked: 779 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
True, you felt the need to ask me 1 when I hadn't asked you 1, anyway I'm not going round in circles with you, I'll see if LC answers after all the question was directed that way.Imploding Turtle wrote:But you haven't asked me a question. Are you feeling OK?
-
- Posts: 19799
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
- Been Liked: 5483 times
- Has Liked: 2540 times
- Location: Burnley, Lancs
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
What the **** are you on about? lol. When did it become only OK to ask someone a question if they've asked you one? And didn't you literally just complain about exactly that?Jakubclaret wrote:True, you felt the need to ask me 1 when I hadn't asked you 1, anyway I'm not going round in circles with you, I'll see if LC answers after all the question was directed that way.
******* coward. You know it was pretty stupid to try and claim Obama might have been a raving racist, or that Trump wasn't and now you're worried that you might have to defend your opinion.
-
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
- Been Liked: 1185 times
- Has Liked: 779 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
To defend a opinion you have to express 1, anyway like I said I'm not going around in circles with you, I should have ignored this to be honest.Imploding Turtle wrote:What the **** are you on about? lol. When did it become only OK to ask someone a question if they've asked you one? And didn't you literally just complain about exactly that?
******* coward. You know it was pretty stupid to try and claim Obama might have been a raving racist, or that Trump wasn't and now you're worried that you might have to defend your opinion.
-
- Posts: 8023
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:08 am
- Been Liked: 2819 times
- Has Liked: 503 times
- Location: Earth
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Imagine Who Want To Be A Millionaire with those rules?
Question 1:.........
Question 1:.........
-
- Posts: 19799
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
- Been Liked: 5483 times
- Has Liked: 2540 times
- Location: Burnley, Lancs
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
You said it was a wild thing to say that Obama wasn't a raving racist. That's an expressed opinion.Jakubclaret wrote:To defend a opinion you have to express 1, anyway like I said I'm going around in circles with you, I should have ignored this to be honest.
Why is it a wild thing to say?
-
- Posts: 23343
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
- Been Liked: 8058 times
- Has Liked: 4714 times
- Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I never met Adolf Hitler. But I'm confident he wasn't a nice guy.Jakubclaret wrote:That's a wild thing to say about somebody based on what exactly? I'm not sticking up for him I don't know him, just seems a strong set of words for somebody, it's logical in that to assume you've had some sort of first hand experience to be so confident in that manner.
-
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
- Been Liked: 1185 times
- Has Liked: 779 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
It's easier to judge dead people as it's accountable history & the legacy is left albeit a bad 1 in your example, people still living it's harder, anyway thanks for the answering the question, it's told me what I wanted to know, I won't ask you anymore questions regarding DTLancasterclaret wrote:I never met Adolf Hitler. But I'm confident he wasn't a nice guy.
-
- Posts: 8996
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:57 am
- Been Liked: 2013 times
- Has Liked: 2913 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
You may well have thought Hitler a very nice guy prior to his gassing fighting for Austria. An animal loving vegetarian wandering around Liverpool whose only wish was to be an artist. He clearly had charisma, one on one or he could never have got people to go to such extremes to please him and propel him to the top.Lancasterclaret wrote:I never met Adolf Hitler. But I'm confident he wasn't a nice guy.
This user liked this post: Jakubclaret
-
- Posts: 19799
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:12 am
- Been Liked: 5483 times
- Has Liked: 2540 times
- Location: Burnley, Lancs
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
You talking about the racist white supremacist, Donald Trump? Or another DT?Jakubclaret wrote:It's easier to judge dead people as it's accountable history & the legacy is left albeit a bad 1 in your example, people still living it's harder, anyway thanks for the answering the question, it's told me what I wanted to know, I won't ask you anymore questions regarding DT
-
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
- Been Liked: 1185 times
- Has Liked: 779 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
The aftermath of the versailles treaty changed certain people, no way excusing AH, but living people change & harder to judge that's the point I was trying to get across.elwaclaret wrote:You may well have thought Hitler a very nice guy prior to his gassing fighting for Austria. An animal loving vegetarian wandering around Liverpool whose only wish was to be an artist. He clearly had charisma, one on one or he could never have got people to go to such extremes to please him and propel him to the top.
-
- Posts: 8023
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:08 am
- Been Liked: 2819 times
- Has Liked: 503 times
- Location: Earth
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
So we have to meet people to know they are bad people?
-
- Posts: 1763
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:24 pm
- Been Liked: 586 times
- Has Liked: 203 times
- Location: Oldfield, West Yorkshire
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
FFS, this petty points scoring still going on
This user liked this post: KateR
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Been away a few days with no access to tv or internet (bliss!). Did Brexit happen?
-
- Posts: 12370
- Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
- Been Liked: 5210 times
- Has Liked: 921 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Where's all the usual suspects who were up in arms about voter ID and protecting the integrity of our democratic processes.Devils_Advocate wrote:Why dont the Tory's go and spend some real time and effort tackling the foreign country's that subvert our election process - though to be fair the answer to this is obvious
Thought you'd be up in arms about our PM doing everything he can to suppress reports into the involvement of the Russians and their attempts to subvert
RingoMcCartney wrote:the biggest single expression of democracy the nation has ever witnessed.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Ah, but this is the good type of subversion!Devils_Advocate wrote:Where's all the usual suspects who were up in arms about voter ID and protecting the integrity of our democratic processes.
Thought you'd be up in arms about our PM doing everything he can to suppress reports into the involvement of the Russians and their attempts to subvert
This user liked this post: Devils_Advocate
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Most historians doubt Hitler visited his half brother (Alois) in Liverpool, but strangely enough, a set of my great grandparents lived near Lime St Station too, and also worked in hotels there, so might have known Alois themselves.elwaclaret wrote:You may well have thought Hitler a very nice guy prior to his gassing fighting for Austria. An animal loving vegetarian wandering around Liverpool whose only wish was to be an artist. He clearly had charisma, one on one or he could never have got people to go to such extremes to please him and propel him to the top.
This user liked this post: elwaclaret
-
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
- Been Liked: 1185 times
- Has Liked: 779 times
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Do historians carry more weight than a sister in law.AndrewJB wrote:Most historians doubt Hitler visited his half brother (Alois) in Liverpool, but strangely enough, a set of my great grandparents lived near Lime St Station too, and also worked in hotels there, so might have known Alois themselves.
http://jmu-journalism.org.uk/did-hitler ... liverpool/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;