Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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Lancasterclaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:13 pm

dsr wrote:I've been listening to experts since the Brexit vote was announced. How many predictions do they have to get wrong before I decide they aren't as expert as they think they are?
You should know mate!

How is your sunlit uplands going?

You really need to realise that your expertise and intelligent level isn't up to the standards where you can wing international trade policy to be perfectly honest.

Mine isn't either, which is why I read up on stuff before I come out all guns blazing.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Blackrod » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:14 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Full of lies and half truths, so standard Boris fare.

Not a complete shock to see it going down well with you though!
Well it would be boring if we all thought alike. Now back to The Daily Mail.... :D
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:14 pm

dsr wrote:I've been listening to experts since the Brexit vote was announced. How many predictions do they have to get wrong before I decide they aren't as expert as they think they are?
You know experts aren’t an amorphous mass right? An expert can be wrong without impacting other experts’ ability to be right. And even if all the experts in one area of expertise are getting it wrong again it doesn’t impact the ability of experts in other areas to get it right.

It’s like saying I once got a bad tip at the horses so I no longer listen to the weather forecast.
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dsr
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:20 pm

martin_p wrote:You know experts aren’t an amorphous mass right? An expert can be wrong without impacting other experts’ ability to be right. And even if all the experts in one area of expertise are getting it wrong again it doesn’t impact the ability of experts in other areas to get it right.

It’s like saying I once got a bad tip at the horses so I no longer listen to the weather forecast.
So these are an entirely different set of experts from the "Boris can't negotiate a new deal" experts then? Good to know. I tend to lump all the "doom and gloom and Brexit" merchants together, but if the "experts" who know about trade deals with the USA are in an entirely different field from the "experts" who know about exit deals from the EU, I needn't discount their views as the same old pessimistic rubbish.

I may discount it as a new lot of pessimistic rubbish, but that's another story.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:22 pm

dsr wrote:So these are an entirely different set of experts from the "Boris can't negotiate a new deal" experts then? Good to know. I tend to lump all the "doom and gloom and Brexit" merchants together, but if the "experts" who know about trade deals with the USA are in an entirely different field from the "experts" who know about exit deals from the EU, I needn't discount their views as the same old pessimistic rubbish.

I may discount it as a new lot of pessimistic rubbish, but that's another story.
Well it seems you’ve dismissed it without taking time to find out so there’s no real point in me answering your question.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:24 pm

dsr wrote:So these are an entirely different set of experts from the "Boris can't negotiate a new deal" experts then? Good to know. I tend to lump all the "doom and gloom and Brexit" merchants together, but if the "experts" who know about trade deals with the USA are in an entirely different field from the "experts" who know about exit deals from the EU, I needn't discount their views as the same old pessimistic rubbish.

I may discount it as a new lot of pessimistic rubbish, but that's another story.
Proper flag waving "I BELIEVE IN BRITAIN" is more your thing.

Reality just isn't like that, as we are going to find out if we continue to follow people who think that is all we need.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:26 pm

martin_p wrote:Well it seems you’ve dismissed it without taking time to find out so there’s no real point in me answering your question.
If I can dismiss the entire Treasury department's forecast of 800,000 jobs lost within a year of the Brexit vote, I can certainly dismiss Lancaster's anonymous bunch of experts. And I can certainly dismiss the apocalyptic predictions of what happens if we don't get a trade deal with the USA. There's only so many times you can cry wolf before you don't get believed any more, even by the people who believed the first time.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:28 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Proper flag waving "I BELIEVE IN BRITAIN" is more your thing.

Reality just isn't like that, as we are going to find out if we continue to follow people who think that is all we need.
And flag waving "I DON'T BELIEVE IN BRITAIN" is yours. I prefer mine.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:29 pm

dsr wrote:If I can dismiss the entire Treasury department's forecast of 800,000 jobs lost within a year of the Brexit vote, I can certainly dismiss Lancaster's anonymous bunch of experts. And I can certainly dismiss the apocalyptic predictions of what happens if we don't get a trade deal with the USA. There's only so many times you can cry wolf before you don't get believed any more, even by the people who believed the first time.
So weather forecasts are a big no no in your house then.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:29 pm

dsr wrote:If I can dismiss the entire Treasury department's forecast of 800,000 jobs lost within a year of the Brexit vote, I can certainly dismiss Lancaster's anonymous bunch of experts. And I can certainly dismiss the apocalyptic predictions of what happens if we don't get a trade deal with the USA. There's only so many times you can cry wolf before you don't get believed any more, even by the people who believed the first time.
They are only anonymous if you don't want to acknowledge that your point of view might be flawed.

Three and a bit years of you being wrong on this kind of thing still not sunk in yet I see.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:30 pm

martin_p wrote:So weather forecasts are a big no no in your house then.
He just uses his massive union jack as a makeshift umbrella.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:31 pm

martin_p wrote:So weather forecasts are a big no no in your house then.
I use weather forecasts. But if the forecast says it will be sunny and I look outside and see it's raining, then I make a considered judgement on whether I need a coat. I don't slavishly follow the experts.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Jakubclaret » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:32 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:You should know mate!

How is your sunlit uplands going?

You really need to realise that your expertise and intelligent level isn't up to the standards where you can wing international trade policy to be perfectly honest.

Mine isn't either, which is why I read up on stuff before I come out all guns blazing.
You do realise that these experts receive a wage don't you, believe me you wouldn't be a expert in a job for very long saying something different to what the paymaster expects.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:32 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:They are only anonymous if you don't want to acknowledge that your point of view might be flawed.

Three and a bit years of you being wrong on this kind of thing still not sunk in yet I see.
Are you saying i was wrong to dismiss the Treasury forecast and that we did have a recession and 800,000 job losses? Provide a link, please.

I believed the Treasury was wrong. I was right, the Treasury was wrong. Expert or not, they were wrong.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:32 pm

dsr wrote:I use weather forecasts. But if the forecast says it will be sunny and I look outside and see it's raining, then I make a considered judgement on whether I need a coat. I don't slavishly follow the experts.
If you’re using a forecast to see what the weather is like outside now you understand this even less than I thought!
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:34 pm

martin_p wrote:If you’re using a forecast to see what the weather is like outside now you understand this even less than I thought!
If you haven't a sensible point to make, don't make one.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:42 pm

dsr wrote:If you haven't a sensible point to make, don't make one.
You said you ignore forecasts that prove not to be true. Well yes everyone does that. But what you rant about experts implies is that if today’s forecast had predicted sun and it’s raining then you completely ignore tomorrow’s forecast because it can’t possibly be right.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:51 pm

dsr wrote:If you haven't a sensible point to make, don't make one.
Jesus, if only you took your own advice occasionally.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:58 pm

dsr wrote:Are these the same experts who told them they they couldn't get a deal agreed with the EU before October 31st? Or a different set of experts?
Given we haven't agreed a deal it seems those experts were pretty spot on.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:07 pm

aggi wrote:Given we haven't agreed a deal it seems those experts were pretty spot on.
The experts said that Johnson couldn't agree a deal with the EU. He did.

What he couldn't do was get it past the House of Commons.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:40 pm

dsr wrote:The experts said that Johnson couldn't agree a deal with the EU. He did.

What he couldn't do was get it past the House of Commons.
Obviously we saw different experts. The ones I saw said that Johnson wouldn't agree a deal which is clearly the case. Lots of people (even myself and I'm no expert) were predicting an NI only backstop and pointing out that it wouldn't get through the house.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:53 pm

dsr wrote:So these are an entirely different set of experts from the "Boris can't negotiate a new deal" experts then? Good to know. I tend to lump all the "doom and gloom and Brexit" merchants together, but if the "experts" who know about trade deals with the USA are in an entirely different field from the "experts" who know about exit deals from the EU, I needn't discount their views as the same old pessimistic rubbish.

I may discount it as a new lot of pessimistic rubbish, but that's another story.
Johnson didn’t negotiate a new deal. He started with May’s deal, and then gave some of our sovereignty away, and built in an impossible time frame so he could please his City paymasters with a no deal scenario later (see his lie about allowing parliament to have a say on another extension). A potted plant could have achieved the same.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:05 pm

dsr wrote:I use weather forecasts. But if the forecast says it will be sunny and I look outside and see it's raining, then I make a considered judgement on whether I need a coat. I don't slavishly follow the experts.

Setting aside the ridiculousness of using a forecast to determine the current weather in your area, you are aware that forecasts are drawns probabilistically. Right? When you look at a forecast map, and it has the little 'rain' icon over your town with rain that doesn't mean it's actually going to rain. It means that of all the possibilities that rain is the most probably possibility based on the information at the time the forecast was made.

And if you go out wearing a rain coat, and it doesn't rain, that doesn't make your decision to wear one "wrong". Because based on the information you had, wearing a rain coat was the best option.



Do you understand this?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:55 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Setting aside the ridiculousness of using a forecast to determine the current weather in your area, you are aware that forecasts are drawns probabilistically. Right? When you look at a forecast map, and it has the little 'rain' icon over your town with rain that doesn't mean it's actually going to rain. It means that of all the possibilities that rain is the most probably possibility based on the information at the time the forecast was made.

And if you go out wearing a rain coat, and it doesn't rain, that doesn't make your decision to wear one "wrong". Because based on the information you had, wearing a rain coat was the best option.



Do you understand this?
I think we all know the answer to that question!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:43 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Setting aside the ridiculousness of using a forecast to determine the current weather in your area, you are aware that forecasts are drawns probabilistically. Right? When you look at a forecast map, and it has the little 'rain' icon over your town with rain that doesn't mean it's actually going to rain. It means that of all the possibilities that rain is the most probably possibility based on the information at the time the forecast was made.

And if you go out wearing a rain coat, and it doesn't rain, that doesn't make your decision to wear one "wrong". Because based on the information you had, wearing a rain coat was the best option.



Do you understand this?
Have you finished yet? I think this interpretation of a figure of speech has crossed way into the realms of super-literal idiocy. Let it be known that I am happy with my interpretation of weather forecasts. :roll:

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:33 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Setting aside the ridiculousness of using a forecast to determine the current weather in your area, you are aware that forecasts are drawns probabilistically. Right? When you look at a forecast map, and it has the little 'rain' icon over your town with rain that doesn't mean it's actually going to rain. It means that of all the possibilities that rain is the most probably possibility based on the information at the time the forecast was made.

And if you go out wearing a rain coat, and it doesn't rain, that doesn't make your decision to wear one "wrong". Because based on the information you had, wearing a rain coat was the best option.



Do you understand this?
“And if you go out wearing a rain coat, and it doesn’t rain, that doesn’t make your decision to wear one “wrong”.
I’m afraid it does, if it’s a warm day you end up sweating your bo**ocks off or face carrying it.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:57 am

dsr wrote:Have you finished yet? I think this interpretation of a figure of speech has crossed way into the realms of super-literal idiocy. Let it be known that I am happy with my interpretation of weather forecasts. :roll:

Classic dsr. Focus on one half of one sentence and pretend that the entire rest of a post doesn't exist.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:17 pm

I'm not entirely sure what the message is here:

Image

The "Remoaners" are going to save the universe from the evil Boris who is planning to wipe out half of the population?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by LoveCurryPies » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:33 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:“And if you go out wearing a rain coat, and it doesn’t rain, that doesn’t make your decision to wear one “wrong”.
I’m afraid it does, if it’s a warm day you end up sweating your bo**ocks off or face carrying it.
You can take your raincoat off and carry it. :lol: bo**ocks saved!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by JohnMcGreal » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:41 pm

aggi wrote:I'm not entirely sure what the message is here:


The "Remoaners" are going to save the universe from the evil Boris who is planning to wipe out half of the population?
I thought Ringo hadn't posted for a while...

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by tiger76 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:11 pm

Food for thought regarding all the pre-election bribes post-brexit and beyond.https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50361025

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:54 pm

“HARDLINE loyalists claim they are planning a “war of attrition” as anger grows over what many see as a betrayal by the British government over Brexit.
Several hundred loyalists, including senior figures linked to a number of paramilitary factions, met in east Belfast this week to discuss the implications of the proposed Withdrawal Agreement that would see a border in the Irish sea and remove a unionist veto from Stormont.
The meeting at the East Belfast Constitutional Club was said by loyalist Jamie Bryson to be the first of many such gatherings, adding that the loyalist community “will never accept an economic united Ireland”.
Belfast UDA leaders Matt Kincaid and Jim Spence attended the unprecedented gathering as did Stephen Matthews, the alleged leader of the east Belfast UVF.”
http://www.irishnews.com/news/northerni ... -attrition" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;–1745909/

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:34 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:2008 - Labour bail out the banks and saves London based bankers jobs. Costing the nation billions.

The EU says , " that's fine."

2019 - The tories want to save thousands of steel workers jobs in the industrial north. Costing the nation millions.

The EU says, "No can do , UK"

Like the old Real Labour MPs always said, "the EU is a bankers club.
Here we go Ringo, just to put this one to bed.

It is understood that the government will help in the form of loan guarantees and other financial support.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50369413" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:55 pm

aggi wrote:Here we go Ringo, just to put this one to bed.

It is understood that the government will help in the form of loan guarantees and other financial support.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50369413" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:lol: :lol: :lol:


If you're going to post a link claiming it supports your claim , please post one that actually does!!!!

I quoted a specialist talking on a labour supporting website and radio 5 live. I also quoted the government's own legal advisors.

They both said that under eu state aid rules the government would not be allowed to step in and take over the steel business.

What's been announced is a private company taking over.

That's either you wanting to misunderstanding the meaning of state ownership or some 3rd rate goal post shifting in an attempt to save face after being proved wrong months ago!

:lol:


It must have been really eating away at you all this time!

:lol: :lol:

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:51 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:


If you're going to post a link claiming it supports your claim , please post one that actually does!!!!

I quoted a specialist talking on a labour supporting website and radio 5 live. I also quoted the government's own legal advisors.

They both said that under eu state aid rules the government would not be allowed to step in and take over the steel business.

What's been announced is a private company taking over.

That's either you wanting to misunderstanding the meaning of state ownership or some 3rd rate goal post shifting in an attempt to save face after being proved wrong months ago!

:lol:


It must have been really eating away at you all this time!

:lol: :lol:
State ownership? You said

The tories want to save thousands of steel workers jobs in the industrial north. Costing the nation millions.

The EU says, "No can do , UK"

Have those jobs been saved, Yes or No?

Did the government assist in it happening, Yes or No?

Did the EU stop those jobs being saved, Yes or No?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:13 pm

aggi wrote:State ownership? You said

The tories want to save thousands of steel workers jobs in the industrial north. Costing the nation millions.

The EU says, "No can do , UK"

Have those jobs been saved, Yes or No?

Did the government assist in it happening, Yes or No?

Did the EU stop those jobs being saved, Yes or No?

Without the Chinese coming in as a private investor would this be happening!?

Answer - a big fat "NO"

The specialist on BBC radio 5 live who was also quoted on the labour supporting website was correct when she confirmed the government was unable to take over the steel works cos of eu state aid law.

The government's own legal team were also correct, when they advised the government it would breach EU rules if it intervened.

I was correct and used the former advice to prove my point.

You, however, aggi were utterly and totally incorrect!!

You were then and you still are today!

You're consistent I'll give you that!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You talked about, "putting this one to bed!"

It's you that clearly needs an early night aggi!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:09 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Without the Chinese coming in as a private investor would this be happening!?

Answer - a big fat "NO"

The specialist on BBC radio 5 live who was also quoted on the labour supporting website was correct when she confirmed the government was unable to take over the steel works cos of eu state aid law.

The government's own legal team were also correct, when they advised the government it would breach EU rules if it intervened.

I was correct and used the former advice to prove my point.

You, however, aggi were utterly and totally incorrect!!

You were then and you still are today!

You're consistent I'll give you that!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You talked about, "putting this one to bed!"

It's you that clearly needs an early night aggi!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
State ownership? You said

The tories want to save thousands of steel workers jobs in the industrial north. Costing the nation millions.

The EU says, "No can do , UK"

Have those jobs been saved, Yes or No?

Did the government assist in it happening, Yes or No?

Did the EU stop those jobs being saved, Yes or No?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:16 pm

aggi wrote:State ownership? You said

The tories want to save thousands of steel workers jobs in the industrial north. Costing the nation millions.

The EU says, "No can do , UK"

Have those jobs been saved, Yes or No?

Did the government assist in it happening, Yes or No?

Did the EU stop those jobs being saved, Yes or No?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Have the jobs been saved ? - Yes !

Did the government assist ? Yes!

Did the EU stop those jobs being saved, Yes or No?

No!

Why ?

Because private chinese investment, without which, this would not be happening does not break EU rules on state ownership and intervention!!!

The tories , as I correctly said, and thanks for quoting me ! Were unable to intervene to save the jobs.

It's not the government that has saved the jobs of 1000s of steel workers , as the link from the BBC confirms.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50369413" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jingye to invest £1bn and save 'thousands of British Steel jobs

It's the Chinese company Jingye!!

I'm even using your source to prove you wrong and me right!

:lol:

Have an early night aggi!

For your own good!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:26 pm

Aggi now desperately scurrying round the internet on the vain hope of finding the headline-

"GOVERNMENT BREACHES EU LAW ON STATE INTERVENTION AS IT , UNILATERALLY NATIONALISES SCUNTHORPE STEEL PLANT"


"Today the trade and industry minister announced, against the advice of it's own legal team and industry specialists and experts that it would, without any private investment from a Chinese company buyout , be taking over the running of the steel plant in scunthorpe"


This is what you're looking for aggi!!


It's the only place you're gonna find it!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


G'night and dont let the bed bugs bite!


:lol: :lol: :lol:

aggi
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:27 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:

Have the jobs been saved ? - Yes !

Did the government assist ? Yes!

Did the EU stop those jobs being saved, Yes or No?

No!

Why ?

Because private chinese investment, without which, this would not be happening does not break EU rules on state ownership and intervention!!!

The tories , as I correctly said, and thanks for quoting me ! Were unable to intervene to save the jobs.

It's not the government that has saved the jobs of 1000s of steel workers , as the link from the BBC confirms.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50369413" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jingye to invest £1bn and save 'thousands of British Steel jobs

It's the Chinese company Jingye!!

I'm even using your source to prove you wrong and me right!

:lol:

Have an early night aggi!

For your own good!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
So the UK government was allowed to assist in saving those jobs.

Glad we cleared that up.

RingoMcCartney
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:33 pm

aggi wrote:So the UK government was allowed to assist in saving those jobs.

Glad we cleared that up.
The only thing we cleared up is that as evangelical eu nationalist zealot you want to fly in the face of reality and claim the government has saved the steel works. Meanwhile in the real world , every news bulletin is confirming what I said.!!!!

:lol: :lol:



Aggi now desperately scurrying round the internet on the vain hope of finding the headline-

"GOVERNMENT BREACHES EU LAW ON STATE INTERVENTION AS IT , UNILATERALLY NATIONALISES SCUNTHORPE STEEL PLANT"


"Today the trade and industry minister announced, against the advice of it's own legal team and industry specialists and experts that it would, without any private investment from a Chinese company buyout , be taking over the running of the steel plant in scunthorpe"


This is what you're looking for aggi!!


It's the only place you're gonna find it!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


All this flying in the face of reality you're doing?

Is Elton John paying for your carbon miles!?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

RingoMcCartney
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:37 pm

It's not the government that has saved the jobs of 1000s of steel workers , as the link from the BBC confirms.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50369413" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jingye to invest £1bn and save 'thousands of British Steel jobs

It's the Chinese company Jingye!!

I'm even using your source to prove you wrong and me right!


:lol: :lol: :lol:

aggi
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:19 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:It's not the government that has saved the jobs of 1000s of steel workers , as the link from the BBC confirms.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50369413" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jingye to invest £1bn and save 'thousands of British Steel jobs

It's the Chinese company Jingye!!

I'm even using your source to prove you wrong and me right!


:lol: :lol: :lol:
Which bit of It is understood that the government will help in the form of loan guarantees and other financial support. is confusing you?

I'm not sure why you keep banging on about state ownership. Unless you meant to type:

The EU says, "No can do , UK" if the sole method of rescue that you're considering is state ownership with a subsidy for a non-profitable company.

Caballo
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Caballo » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:57 am

The government has been underwriting the business since May when it went into liquidation, if it hadn't there wouldn't have been anything for Jingye to invest in.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:42 am

aggi wrote:Which bit of It is understood that the government will help in the form of loan guarantees and other financial support. is confusing you?

I'm not sure why you keep banging on about state ownership. Unless you meant to type:

The EU says, "No can do , UK" if the sole method of rescue that you're considering is state ownership with a subsidy for a non-profitable company.
Just let him be wrong. It’s his thing and he’s good at it.

AndrewJB
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:55 am

aggi wrote:Which bit of It is understood that the government will help in the form of loan guarantees and other financial support. is confusing you?

I'm not sure why you keep banging on about state ownership. Unless you meant to type:

The EU says, "No can do , UK" if the sole method of rescue that you're considering is state ownership with a subsidy for a non-profitable company.
Nationalisation is allowed by the EU. He was arguing about state aid, so is wrong, for a change.

aggi
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:47 am

AndrewJB wrote:Nationalisation is allowed by the EU. He was arguing about state aid, so is wrong, for a change.
Well yes, but do you really expect RIngo to understand the difference between nationalisation and state subsidies?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:05 pm

aggi wrote:Which bit of It is understood that the government will help in the form of loan guarantees and other financial support. is confusing you?

I'm not sure why you keep banging on about state ownership. Unless you meant to type:

The EU says, "No can do , UK" if the sole method of rescue that you're considering is state ownership with a subsidy for a non-profitable company.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I thought an early night would have cleared your head

This is what I said.


"2008- Labour bail out the banks and saves London based bankers jobs. Costing the nation billions. 

The EU says , " that's fine."

2019- The tories want to save thousands of steel workers jobs in the industrial north. Costing the nation millions. 

The EU says, "No can do , UK"

Like the old Real Labour MPs always said, "the EU is a bankers club."

I'm now quoting directly from the actual letter sent to the government from its legal advisors.

"We cannot demonstrate the necessary commerciality required by State Aid Law to provide such support"

In other words , perhaps "simplistic", The EU says, "No can do , UK"

"There is no evidence that any earlier funding options involving government would have been lawful either"

In other words , The EU says, "No can do , UK"

"It would be unlawful to provide a guarantee or loan"

In other words , The EU says, "No can do , UK"

"We do not believe there is currently any level of investment government could make ( above the State Aid de minis of €200000 that could be deemed commercial and so legal"

In other words , The EU says, "No can do , UK"

It was not possible to fund a traditional loan financing that would be deemed to be successfully commercial to meet the State Aid commerciality threshold"

In other words , The EU says, "No can do , UK"

https://mobile.twitter.com/SimonClarkeM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 1516826626

It proves my "simplistic" point to be accurate and correct and concurs with what Dr Ruth Bender, Associate Professor of Corporate Financial Strategy, said when she was interviewed on Radio 5 Live Breakfast show on 31st March.

"Do EU rules prevent state aid to save British Steel?

Would it be against EU regulations to provide funding to British Steel in a time of need?

"Unfortunately, yes. The fact that all the economic factors go against the UK steel industry is not relevant, nor is the potentially devastating impact on the wider local economy were it to close. The EU has already ruled on this: in January 2016 the competition commissioner ruled that the Belgian government had illegally provided €211m to steel companies in one of its depressed regions, and ordered that the money be repaid. She also announced an investigation into €2bn of similar aid given by the Italian government to support its steel industry."

Taken from the labour supporting website labour heartlands!


Your side aggi!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


The Tories/ government, as I said, and you called "outright lies " were prevented from saving thousands of jobs due to eu rules.

They haven't the chinese company has

If you , as a little Europeaner, want to make out that the tories have saved the steel workers jobs and defied EU state aid law , then fill your , psychologically wedded to the " le grande project " boots!

:lol:

Every news bulletin yesterday, on tv , radio station , national newspaper has reported , it's a Chinese company that has stepped in a bought the steel business. Not the Tory Government. Just like they reported the EU was fine when labour bailed out the banks.

But you keep coming back and looking ridiculous!

Its brightening up, what would otherwise be a pretty mundane Tuesday!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:08 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Nationalisation is allowed by the EU. He was arguing about state aid, so is wrong, for a change.
You heard it hear first folks!

Andrew JB knows more about state aid rules than both,
Dr Ruth Bender, Associate Professor of Corporate Financial Strategy, and the government's own team of legal advisors!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

RingoMcCartney
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:14 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Nationalisation is allowed by the EU. He was arguing about state aid, so is wrong, for a change.
From a post I made in May


I'm now quoting directly from the actual letter sent to the government from its legal advisors.

"We cannot demonstrate the necessary commerciality required by State Aid Law to provide such support"

In other words , perhaps "simplistic", The EU says, "No can do , UK"

"There is no evidence that any earlier funding options involving government would have been lawful either"

In other words , The EU says, "No can do , UK"

"It would be unlawful to provide a guarantee or loan"

In other words , The EU says, "No can do , UK"

"We do not believe there is currently any level of investment government could make ( above the State Aid de minis of €200000 that could be deemed commercial and so legal"

In other words , The EU says, "No can do , UK"

It was not possible to fund a traditional loan financing that would be deemed to be successfully commercial to meet the State Aid commerciality threshold"

In other words , The EU says, "No can do , UK"


As usual I was spot on!

Locked