Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[houseboy]

The one good thing about Brexit finally happening is that it might just bring an end to this extremely overlong thread on the subject. 433 pages of non-footballing thread on a football forum.

On a slightly more serious note...it IS happening and it is the responsibility of EVERYONE to make it work. Sitting in your own pool of tears waiting (hoping) for things to go wrong is surely not the way. I sincerely believe that in 12 months or two years we will wonder what all the fuss was about. The remainers will have stopped assuming the the Leavers are all racists in some way. The leavers will have stopped calling remainers traitors. The world will not have ended and we will be on the outside probably watching the EU implode on itself.
Remainers are NOT traitors, they have their own set of beliefs for right or wrong, and we have to respect that, but anyone who now actively works against making it work WILL be treacherous because they will be putting their own failed agenda before that of the country. That would be wrong.

I hope to f*ck that this is the last post on this thread (but I know it won't be).

These are just my thoughts on the whole final scenario. I won't reply to any replies, good or bad, because the whole affair is, for me, closed.

[RingoMcCartney]

Yes I probably mentioned that in September, I've been saying the same thing for years (in fact there's a post of me saying the same thing about a dozen posts above this one in response to Crosspool saying that HS2 will be good for the north).

Good for you!

I'm far less likely to post on political stuff , now we are officially out of the European union.

However, perhaps you wont be so quick to dismiss what I have to say, simply because I'm the one saying it.

You see, by my track record, unlike Lancasterclarets groundless claim of, "I do have the unfortunate habit of being proven right most of the time!"

I really do!

Whether you like it or not, my views more often than not are in tune with what the majority end up expressing through the ballot box.

I'll say one thing though aggi. You and I are polar opposites, re brexit. But kudos to you, you've never ever resorted to foul or abusive language, or as a last resort ended up making up groundless , childish, personal accusations about me. You've stuck to your arguement. Without the need to do any of that.

So fair play to you.

[Spijed]

No. That's silly. The metropolitan bubble dwellers. The dwellers of the metropolitan London borough of Ivory Towers are those that for decades have wrongly assumed that their experience of life. A lofty , kept in clover , entitled, privileged and middle class life in london is the same experience as the vast vast majority of people in this country. They've applied that experience to those they clearly feel they're superior to,
often spouting lofty pontificating, pronouncements as they go along.

James Obrian personifies it perfectly. As does Emily Thornberry, Starmer, Adonis, Gina Miller, Campbell, Joleyon Mohan, Bercow, Grieve, etc, etc.

Well, he and his fellow metropolitan bubble dwellers , the Establishment , the Westminster class have had a rude awakening havent they!

And what privileged life do you think the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg have led?

[RingoMcCartney]

And what privileged life do you think the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg have led?

Very.

But what does it say about him, when he seems more in tune with the aspirations of people far worse off than himself ( who find it easier to identify and vote for him). Compared to the Westminster political class and the metropolitan bubble dwelling elite who see themselves as being , intellectually superior, and being on some Mother Teresaesque mission to help to save the working class, particularly in the North, from themselves.

Hence, the general election result.

[AndrewJB]

There is a swear filter to stop people swearing. Presumably because this isn't one of those sites that children are banned from reading. If you think that people trying to stop swearing in front of children is a bad thing, then that's your point of view. Is "jolly fine mess" the only alternate word for what you put? Even if you don't like the rule, why do you think the swear filter shouldn't apply to you?

There are twice as many people use the trains nowadays as there were at the time denationalisation happened. Is that a sign of success, or of failure? And the Tories don't have a policy of nationalising the rail services. They have a policy of removing the licence of failing train companies and running them on a government-owned basis until a new private company is appointed. It's a different thing, and I'm sorry you can't see that.

The train companies are mostly owned by the government owned train companies of other countries. Our high prices subsidise their train travel. For a country keen on taking back control, we can only wonder what we actually gained when control was handed out in the first place.

[evensteadiereddie]

Are we talking aout the same Rees-Mogg - the guy who had to be withdrawn from the Tories' election campaign after virtually accusing the Grenfell Tower victims of sealing their own fate ? That one ?

[RingoMcCartney]

Are we talking aout the same Rees-Mogg - the guy who had to be withdrawn from the Tories' election campaign after virtually accusing the Grenfell Tower victims of sealing their own fate ? That one ?

The very one!

The same Rees Mogg who was re-elected by his constituents.

His constituents identified with him , felt he represented them, presumably, the majority liked him enough to choose him to be their MP, again.

Dominic Greive, Anna Soubrey, Chukka Ummuna, Anne-Marie Sandbach, our very own Julie Cooper.

Not so much.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Piece today by Mr T Blair. Apols if it has already been posted.

https://institute.global/tony-blair/ton ... r%20Brexit

(shakes head)

if only this level of statesmanship had been shown since June 2016. A Labour leader saying this stuff and Labour would now be in power with a mandate to do all the rebalancing their way.

(OK, there is a bit of sounding off in there still, but he seems like he is mainly talking sense now the attempt to reverse everything has failed)

[RingoMcCartney]

Report by Civitas.

Pro-Brexit voices drowned out in BBC news programmes, new analysis shows

Pro-Brexit views have been under-represented on flagship BBC news programmes for decades, a new report published today by Civitas shows. While a large section of the population have long supported the UK’s withdrawal from the EU, and a majority voted for it in 2016, their views have been heavily marginalised in the Corporation’s news output.

For instance, of 4,275guests talking about the EU on BBC Radio 4’s flagship Today programme between 2005 and 2015, only 132 (3.2 per cent) were supporters of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU.

In 274 hours of monitored BBC EU coverage between 2002 and 2017, only 14 speakers (0.2 per cent of the total) were left-wing advocates for leaving the EU. These 14 contributors delivered 1,680 words, adding up to approximately 12 minutes. During the same period, two strongly pro-EU Conservatives, Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine, made between them 28 appearances, with contributions totalling 11,208 words – over nine times the amount of airtime allocated to all left-wing withdrawalists.

There has been a determined reluctance to even probe the question as to whether Britain should leave the EU. Between 2005 and 2011, when UKIP had 12 seats in the European Parliament,only 20 questions about actually leaving the EU were posed in 1,073 surveyed editions of Today. So there was an average of one question on withdrawal for every 54 editions, or for every 153 programme hours.

These findings are drawn from a sequential analysis of the News-watch reports dating back to 1999. Since the European Parliament elections of that year News-watch has compiled 38 mainly half-yearly reports, based on 8,000 programme transcripts covering almost 300 hundred hours of EU content.

The bias has continued after the vote for Brexit. A month of the Today Programme in October and November 2017 carried 97 interviews on EU topics, but only nine were with long term supporters of Brexit.

The authors, David Keighley and Andrew Jubb, write:

“When opinion in favour of leaving the EU has featured, the editorial approach has – at the expense of exploring withdrawal itself – tended heavily towards discrediting and denigrating opposition to the EU as xenophobic, and to cast those who supported it as incompetent and venal.

“The overview provided here is a shocking indictment of the BBC’s failure to achieve impartiality, and in particular to incorporate the views of those who desired to leave the EU into its news output. Despite frequent requests to the Chairman and Director General of the BBC from a cross-party group of MPs concerned about BBC bias, the Corporation has been unable to provide a single programme that has examined the opportunities of Brexit. And we cannot find one either.

“The corporation is impervious to all complaints in this domain. It may well be that in the face of this lofty intransigence, something more radical – such as a Judicial Review of the complaints process – might be the only way forward.”




https://www.civitas.org.uk/press/pro-br ... sis-shows/

[Devils_Advocate]

This article absolutely nails Brexit and pretty much sums up a lot of the idiots on here today "superior yet mentally insecure"

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/01/31/the- ... of-brexit/

Happy Brexit Day, looks like it'll be fun viewing watching the clowns on both sides of the debate try to outdo one another at the cringe fest down round Parliament Sq

[KateR]

DA,
it nails nothing except they are of a group think in which you and many others sit it, of course there some truths in it but nothing more than another attempt to undermine everything and throw darts at what might or might not be.

The TB article nothing more than hot air and beating of chest plus some whining, gnashing of teeth and pulling of hair.

Neither article offer anything new, just regurgitated tosh over the years that the electoral rejected

Do you have anything new and inciteful, it's certainly great fun watching people whine because 'nobody listened to me or the experts, it's done, you failed to convince anyone to move to the dark side.

[evensteadiereddie]

Try it in English, Kate !

[Damo]

I didnt realise the EU had an embassy until I saw the bedwetters vigil that has been organised outside it.
I'm still struggling to think why a trading bloc would need an embassy. Can someone enlighten me?

[Devils_Advocate]

DA,
it nails nothing except they are of a group think in which you and many others sit it, of course there some truths in it but nothing more than another attempt to undermine everything and throw darts at what might or might not be.

The TB article nothing more than hot air and beating of chest plus some whining, gnashing of teeth and pulling of hair.

Neither article offer anything new, just regurgitated tosh over the years that the electoral rejected

Do you have anything new and inciteful, it's certainly great fun watching people whine because 'nobody listened to me or the experts, it's done, you failed to convince anyone to move to the dark side.

At least someones enjoying their Brexit day

[KateR]

LOL
as far as I am concerned and have said more than once, today is a none event in terms of Brexit itself, but you have contributed to making me smile today and for that I thank you

[KateR]

Try it in English, Kate !

I often ask my children if I am speaking Swahili, is there anything you didn't understand Eddie, if so I can try to explain it further

[Spijed]

The very one!

The same Rees Mogg who was re-elected by his constituents.

His constituents identified with him , felt he represented them, presumably, the majority liked him enough to choose him to be their MP, again.

Dominic Greive, Anna Soubrey, Chukka Ummuna, Anne-Marie Sandbach, our very own Julie Cooper.

Not so much.

Do you not find it a little disturbing that he hasn't shown any sympathy for people who burnt to death?

[KateR]

Do you not find it a little disturbing that he hasn't shown any sympathy for people who burnt to death?

Spijed,
is this really what you believe or are you just looking for an argument and trying to score a point?

[Spijed]

Spijed,
is this really what you believe or are you just looking for an argument and trying to score a point?

Why do you think he was withdrawn from all public appearances thereafter?

"The Grenfell United support group denounced the comments as “beyond disrespectful” and said they were “extremely painful and insulting to bereaved families”, many of whom died after being told to “stay put” in their flats by firefighters following official policy for tower block blazes."

[KateR]

I know what was said, and if I was a Grenfell Survivor or had lost someone, had any real emotions to the events other than feeling very sorry for everyone involved, living or dead I would feel the same way as the support group, however I am not. Obviously I don't know what your involvement to the supporters group is, which was in a way what I was asking you because that can make a world of difference to your reactions to his comments.

I personally in not having that connection and emotion do not feel the way the supporters group feels, I agree with what they said and he should have been much more tactful, well in reality he should have kept his mouth closed.

The fact is he said something but also stated he had sympathy for those involved, obviously survivors and relatives don't want to hear something that in reality referred to the point that many more would have survived if they had not followed the stay in place rule/advise. In fact the same conclusion I came to long before he said it and it was also a very pertinent point/outcome of the investigation and clearly written. I believe the Fire Brigade executive, who stated at the inquest that she would change nothing in light of the investigation, was completely wrong, she of course later resigned.

However you stating RM had no sympathy for those involved in Grenfell is not something you can know, and therefore I believe it is an agenda you are pushing to some end, again I will say clearly he should never have said it.

[BurnleyFC]

Happy Brexit Day, everyone!

[Elizabeth]

As I suspect this thread may fade away into UTC history now that Brexit has been completed I suppose the only thing left to say to all the undemocratic remoaners is ' See EU later'

[dsr]

Piece today by Mr T Blair. Apols if it has already been posted.

https://institute.global/tony-blair/ton ... r%20Brexit

(shakes head)

if only this level of statesmanship had been shown since June 2016. A Labour leader saying this stuff and Labour would now be in power with a mandate to do all the rebalancing their way.

(OK, there is a bit of sounding off in there still, but he seems like he is mainly talking sense now the attempt to reverse everything has failed)

If Blair himself had said that 3 years ago it would have been fitting and helpful. It would have been an experssion of support for democracy and could have encouraged others to support democracy as well.

Saying it now, after 3 years of scratching and fighting to do all he could to overturn the referendum result, is just hypocritical. He is so obviously saying it only because he lost and lost and lost again. If he meant all that stuff about an encouraging future, why did he preach doom and disaster for so long?

https://extra.ie/2019/04/30/news/brexit ... exit-thing

[LordBob]

First of all good post Ringo I've seen those stats before glad you put them up here but the blind left BBC people won't listen. Tonight Stephen Kelly is inviting people to rant and moan the leaving WHAT DO THEY NOT UNDERSTAND this is democracy, something we haven't seen here for a while. The BBC have just stated that ' the crowd gathering in Parliament Square is predominately white ' wow !!! this is England .... I think.

[Burnley Ace]

I didnt realise the EU had an embassy until I saw the bedwetters vigil that has been organised outside it.
I'm still struggling to think why a trading bloc would need an embassy. Can someone enlighten me?

To negotiate trade deals? To host visiting delegations? To represent some of the smaller EU countries who don’t have an embassy, to promote the EU as a trading bloc.

[Burnley Ace]

First of all good post Ringo I've seen those stats before glad you put them up here but the blind left BBC people won't listen. Tonight Stephen Kelly is inviting people to rant and moan the leaving WHAT DO THEY NOT UNDERSTAND this is democracy, something we haven't seen here for a while. The BBC have just stated that ' the crowd gathering in Parliament Square is predominately white ' wow !!! this is England .... I think.

Come on to be fair most leavers do struggle to get a coherent sentence together and are a bit embarrassing.

[LordBob]

Just liostened to Geert Wilders speech in the Nederlands CONGRATULATIONS BRITAIN ... TODAY BREXIT TOMORROW NEXIT , the house of cards is falling.

[dsr]

To negotiate trade deals? To host visiting delegations? To represent some of the smaller EU countries who don’t have an embassy, to promote the EU as a trading bloc.

It's not to represent smaller EU countries, because all EU countries already have embassies apart from Cyprus and Malta, who have High Commissions. It's not to promote the EU as a trading bloc or to negotiate deals, because we were already in the trading bloc and had no need of deals.

There might be a purpose for an EU embassy now, except that we have been so often assured that there is no loss of political sovereignty to the EU. But why was there one before? Would it serve the same purpose as the non-existent UK embassy in Edinburgh?

[Rowls]

Happy Brexit Day everybody.

Despite all the guff, all the hot air and silly shouting of the past 3+ years, Brexit is neither virtuous nor diabolical.

It is nothing in its own right.

It is what we ourselves make of it.

It can lead to new and exciting markets for the UK or we can shrink into isolationism and trade barriers.

It can embrace immigration and extol the potential of human skill and ingenuity (no matter your skin colour or place of birth) or it could small-minded, bigoted or even xenophobic.

In an increasingly global world economy the UK might show how it is best for sovereign states to have complete control over monetary, fiscal and economic policies. Or perhaps the Euro currency will show that it’s just better for the countries to share a currency for the sale political unity of the Supra-national EU?

But what it WILL do will give the UK back absolute control over its own sovereignty and its own destiny.

Listen not to those who claim everything will be rosy or that the world will end and the sky fall down.

Brexit is neither good nor bad: It will be whatever we make of it.

[Bin Ont Turf]

Happy Saturday everyone.

Here's a wonderful piece of music (link) from a time before the venomous sandal wearers got hold of EU flags.

Notice the flags of other European 'nations'.

There will always be an England

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLKSDT_2zPA

[Damo]

To negotiate trade deals? To host visiting delegations? To represent some of the smaller EU countries who don’t have an embassy, to promote the EU as a trading bloc.

You have no idea what an embassy is do you?

[Rowls]

It's where they eat Referro Rochers.

And we won't be able to get those anymore either. *sad face*

[Bullabill]

I often ask my children if I am speaking Swahili, is there anything you didn't understand Eddie, if so I can try to explain it further

Perhaps you can explain this : "Do you have anything new and inciteful, ...... "

[Burnley Ace]

You have no idea what an embassy is do you?

I suspect slightly more than you, they aren’t there to help ****** up holidaymakers! Lol

[evensteadiereddie]

DA,
it nails nothing except they are of a group think in which you and many others sit it, of course there some truths in it but nothing more than another attempt to undermine everything and throw darts at what might or might not be.

The TB article nothing more than hot air and beating of chest plus some whining, gnashing of teeth and pulling of hair.

Neither article offer anything new, just regurgitated tosh over the years that the electoral rejected

Do you have anything new and inciteful, it's certainly great fun watching people whine because 'nobody listened to me or the experts, it's done, you failed to convince anyone to move to the dark side.

I'd stick to Swahili or orange juice, Kate...........

"it nails nothing except they are of a group think in which you and many others sit it"

"The TB article nothing more than hot air and beating of chest"

"Neither article offer anything newthat the electoral rejected"

"Do you have anything new and inciteful, "

I mean, really, wtf ?

[Colburn_Claret]

This article absolutely nails Brexit and pretty much sums up a lot of the idiots on here today "superior yet mentally insecure"

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/01/31/the- ... of-brexit/

Happy Brexit Day, looks like it'll be fun viewing watching the clowns on both sides of the debate try to outdo one another at the cringe fest down round Parliament Sq

It only took the first paragraph to understand that the author hasn't got a bloody clue as to why the people of this country voted to leave the EU.
As most remainers he wrongly believes that we don't understand, that we are all little Englanders.
It doesn't matter anymore, the die is cast. His rhetoric only serves to make himself look churlish, and a loser.

[Devils_Advocate]

[Burnley Ace]

It only took the first paragraph to understand that the author hasn't got a bloody clue as to why the people of this country voted to leave the EU.
As most remainers he wrongly believes that we don't understand, that we are all little Englanders.
It doesn't matter anymore, the die is cast. His rhetoric only serves to make himself look churlish, and a loser.

Their freedom? Their fishing industry back? No more immigrants? A better trade deal with the EU than we have now? Keeping frictionless trade? £350m a week to the NHS.

The list is endless.

[Colburn_Claret]

Why do you think he was withdrawn from all public appearances thereafter?

"The Grenfell United support group denounced the comments as “beyond disrespectful” and said they were “extremely painful and insulting to bereaved families”, many of whom died after being told to “stay put” in their flats by firefighters following official policy for tower block blazes."

If some one on here, and I'm sure there is, could provide you to the link to the Fire fighters points of view.
Remaining in your flat was the accepted course of action in the event of a fire in a tower block. That is because building regs on such buildings prevented fires from spreading from flat too flat. That was whilst Fire Officers had the authority to oversee building plans, and co-ordinated with Builders on how to make buildings safe. It's why you could see a Tower block with burnt out broken window, yet the flats either side, above and below were untouched.Once the fire service lost that authority it was only a matter of time until the **** hit the fan. Is that JRMs fault.
I'm sure his statement could have been worded better, but I don't believe it was said in order to blame the inhabitants of Grenfell, more that they were given bad advice due to the lack of awareness to the danger those lack of regulations left them in.
To suggest that he didn't give a **** for the victims, is once again putting 2 and 2 together and coming up 6. Of course he cares, he's a human being, we all care, who couldn't be touched by such a tragedy. But when Mogg faces the media, he isn't free to speak as a human being, he's a politician and people were wanting answers, the majority of which he didn't have, not before an investigation.
Once people like yourself and the media, had attacked him, there was little point in showing his face. Like dogs with a bone neither of you were going to let go, and whatever he said was just going to be regurgitated and spewed out again. Better to not show your face in those circumstances.

[Devils_Advocate]

Apologies Colburn I can see from the video below you Brexiteers really are clued up on the EU and have coherent and well thought out views on what leaving means

https://twitter.com/i/status/1223518314913259520

[RingoMcCartney]

First of all good post Ringo I've seen those stats before glad you put them up here but the blind left BBC people won't listen. Tonight Stephen Kelly is inviting people to rant and moan the leaving WHAT DO THEY NOT UNDERSTAND this is democracy, something we haven't seen here for a while. The BBC have just stated that ' the crowd gathering in Parliament Square is predominately white ' wow !!! this is England .... I think.

I think (hope) the BBC realise its days of being funded by the regressive, unfair, television poll tax , the tv licence, are drawing to a gradual end. The average age of someone who regularly watches BBC 1 and 2, it was said last week, is 60/61. Only a tiny percentage of under 30s actually watch the BBC. I've a son and daughter in that age group. Neither watch the BBC and don't pay a tv licence.

I think what we're seeing is a death rattle, one last hurrah of left wing metropolitan bubble dwelling bias, before its dismantled into something more appropriate to the 21st century, without the licence fee. While they're continuing this PC, ideological identity driven agenda, people will continue to switch off and find alternative sources for news and current affairs.

[Colburn_Claret]

Happy Brexit Day everybody.

Despite all the guff, all the hot air and silly shouting of the past 3+ years, Brexit is neither virtuous nor diabolical.

It is nothing in its own right.

It is what we ourselves make of it.

It can lead to new and exciting markets for the UK or we can shrink into isolationism and trade barriers.

It can embrace immigration and extol the potential of human skill and ingenuity (no matter your skin colour or place of birth) or it could small-minded, bigoted or even xenophobic.

In an increasingly global world economy the UK might show how it is best for sovereign states to have complete control over monetary, fiscal and economic policies. Or perhaps the Euro currency will show that it’s just better for the countries to share a currency for the sale political unity of the Supra-national EU?

But what it WILL do will give the UK back absolute control over its own sovereignty and its own destiny.

Listen not to those who claim everything will be rosy or that the world will end and the sky fall down.

Brexit is neither good nor bad: It will be whatever we make of it.

100%

[ClaretAndJew]

These comments from the live stream at Parliament Square are, well, unsettling.

[Burnley1989]

It’s a selection of comments all put together out of about 50k but yeah... it’s grim

[RingoMcCartney]

Do you not find it a little disturbing that he hasn't shown any sympathy for people who burnt to death?

As far as I'm aware he's apologised for his inappropriate comments. His constituents appear to accepted them and subsequently re-elected him to represent them.

[Colburn_Claret]

Apologies Colburn I can see from the video below you Brexiteers really are clued up on the EU and have coherent and well thought out views on what leaving means

https://twitter.com/i/status/1223518314913259520

Yeh, just like me

[ClaretAndJew]

Oh what a night, leaving Brexit on a Friday night.

[Burnley1989]

Rhyming Night with Night, who’s this Pitbull?

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Apologies Colburn I can see from the video below you Brexiteers really are clued up on the EU and have coherent and well thought out views on what leaving means

https://twitter.com/i/status/1223518314913259520

If there is one thing that has annoyed me over the years it’s the ruddy Germans imposing their rule of law in our country!

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Oh what a night, leaving Brexit on a Friday night.

Saw a wannabe football hooligan singing this to the camera on the news wondering how you leave Brexit!? He needs to work on his lyrical content.