Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[Burnley Ace]

And how is that other useful predictor of consumer confidence and recovery - the new car market?

[nil_desperandum]

I can't imagine the fleets of taxi drivers & other businesses declaring every penny, it does seem a small number, which source have you unearthed this information from, I'm surprised a supporting link hasn't been attached, regarding the illegal workers it'd be absolutely impossible to ascertain 100% a accurate figure but it'd be quite high.

I don't think that many people will be surprised by this statistic, (11%) since it broadly reflects the percentage of "Asian heritage / non British" in Burnley.
As for the source, I went to the most obvious link, which is the official figures

https://www.lancashireskillshub.co.uk/w ... report.pdf

A cautionary note. In the relevant table it says 18% but this includes Pendle, and if yuo read the small-print outsidet the table it clarifies that for Burnley alone it s 11%.
I've already expressed an opinion about "illegal workers". Of course there are people in Burnley working illegally. I pay my window cleaner, my odd-job man, my "gardener", and my garage mechanic in cash. I don't ask whether they declare it or not. Everyone of them is "white British". As I opined the percentage of "illegal workers" across the various communities is probably about similar, but the vast majority of workers in Burnley work legally. (Boohoo - which you mentioned - being an obvious example).

[Jakubclaret]

I don't think that many people will be surprised by this statistic, (11%) since it broadly reflects the percentage of "Asian heritage / non British" in Burnley.
As for the source, I went to the most obvious link, which is the official figures

https://www.lancashireskillshub.co.uk/w ... report.pdf

A cautionary note. In the relevant table it says 18% but this includes Pendle, and if yuo read the small-print outsidet the table it clarifies that for Burnley alone it s 11%.
I've already expressed an opinion about "illegal workers". Of course there are people in Burnley working illegally. I pay my window cleaner, my odd-job man, my "gardener", and my garage mechanic in cash. I don't ask whether they declare it or not. Everyone of them is "white British". As I opined the percentage of "illegal workers" across the various communities is probably about similar, but the vast majority of workers in Burnley work legally. (Boohoo - which you mentioned - being an obvious example).

So if you breakdown the 11% & 18% you’d be looking at 15%ish, factor the illegals in say 25% still way off the 45% “not far off” my earlier post was including Burnley & Pendle as a whole area, another poster moved the goalposts but if the link is true I’ll hold my hand up & say I’ve overestimated the figures, I’d still say a quarter of the workforce is high though but a damn sight better than the 45% I over estimated as a rough calculation. The 10% alone I’d say is fair with not all taxis being Hackney carriages or the FB adverts with the samosa etc savoury snacks for sale, & the builders & plumbers (all manners of tradesmen undercutting).

[timshorts]

Why has this appeared at the top of page 437?

"Forbidden
You do not have permission to access this document. "

Is there a secret layer of nonsense somewhere on this page that is only accessible to Brexiteers?
Is it coincidence that Ringo hasn't posted on this page (yet)?

[Jakubclaret]

I don't think that many people will be surprised by this statistic, (11%) since it broadly reflects the percentage of "Asian heritage / non British" in Burnley.
As for the source, I went to the most obvious link, which is the official figures

https://www.lancashireskillshub.co.uk/w ... report.pdf

A cautionary note. In the relevant table it says 18% but this includes Pendle, and if yuo read the small-print outsidet the table it clarifies that for Burnley alone it s 11%.
I've already expressed an opinion about "illegal workers". Of course there are people in Burnley working illegally. I pay my window cleaner, my odd-job man, my "gardener", and my garage mechanic in cash. I don't ask whether they declare it or not. Everyone of them is "white British". As I opined the percentage of "illegal workers" across the various communities is probably about similar, but the vast majority of workers in Burnley work legally. (Boohoo - which you mentioned - being an obvious example).

We know the numbers are here, so if you are suggesting a relatively small number are in employment what are the rest doing to support themselves, if you worked at Boohoo with a family to support you would surely need some sort of benefit to supplement the income, if people aren't working or aren't on the system that they are working, either they are all claiming benefits or working illegally, no other explanation.

[TheFamilyCat]

We know the numbers are here, so if you are suggesting a relatively small number are in employment what are the rest doing to support themselves, if you worked at Boohoo with a family to support you would surely need some sort of benefit to supplement the income, if people aren't working or aren't on the system that they are working, either they are all claiming benefits or working illegally, no other explanation.

Don't get started on the ducks again.

[Jakubclaret]

Don't get started on the ducks again.

I'm serious I'd like ND to explain, the maths just don't add up.

[Tall Paul]

We know the numbers are here, so if you are suggesting a relatively small number are in employment what are the rest doing to support themselves, if you worked at Boohoo with a family to support you would surely need some sort of benefit to supplement the income, if people aren't working or aren't on the system that they are working, either they are all claiming benefits or working illegally, no other explanation.

What do you mean, "the numbers are here"?

What percentage of Burnley's population do you think aren't white British?

[nil_desperandum]

So if you breakdown the 11% & 18% you’d be looking at 15%ish, factor the illegals in say 25% still way off the 45% “not far off” my earlier post was including Burnley & Pendle as a whole area, another poster moved the goalposts but if the link is true I’ll hold my hand up & say I’ve overestimated the figures, I’d still say a quarter of the workforce is high though but a damn sight better than the 45% I over estimated as a rough calculation. The 10% alone I’d say is fair with not all taxis being Hackney carriages or the FB adverts with the samosa etc savoury snacks for sale, & the builders & plumbers (all manners of tradesmen undercutting).

In a subsequent post you ask me to explain. I'm not sure what there is to explain.
The link I posted is detailed. In an attempt to avoid confusion I clarified that the figure of 18% (in the table) is based on the 2 boroughs of Burnley and Pendle (the average), but that in the "small-print" it points out that the figure for Burnley alone is 11%, so there's no need for you to find the average of 11 and 18 come up with 15. The percentage of "non-British" workers for BURNLEY is 11%.
Again you continue to try to lift the figure by adding an unknown number of "illegals". Of course there will be "non- British workers" being paid cash-in hand, but as I pointed out in another post, if you are going to add a random number of "non-British" who are working illegally to the total then for the statistics to have any meaning or credibility you would also have to add a random number of "illegals" to the "ethnic British" total. (Like I said, my window cleaner, gardener, mechanic, odd-job man).
If you add "illegal" workers onto both columns then the percentages 89 / 11 would most likely remain about the same. [Of course if you choose to exclude "British White" workers who are working "cash-in-hand" from your stats then the percentages will narrow, but I assume you wouldn't be so dishonest].

[Devils_Advocate]

Name that politician.....

"Leave cannot name one country we would get a better trade deal with if we left the EU."

[aggi]

What do you mean, "the numbers are here"?

What percentage of Burnley's population do you think aren't white British?

I would guess about 50%

[Jakubclaret]

What do you mean, "the numbers are here"?

What percentage of Burnley's population do you think aren't white British?

My earlier post was combining Burnley & Pendle as a whole I'll reiterate that again, far more than ND is suggesting, must be thousands of people lost in the system, you are either working or claiming part benefits or on full benefits, large families with young & old people could go some way to explaining the collosal disparity.

[Tall Paul]

My earlier post was combining Burnley & Pendle as a whole I'll reiterate that again, far more than ND is suggesting, must be thousands of people lost in the system, you are either working or claiming part benefits or on full benefits, large families with young & old people could go some way to explaining the collosal disparity.

What disparity?

What percentage of Burnley (and Pendle if you like)'s population do you think aren't white British?

[nil_desperandum]

My earlier post was combining Burnley & Pendle as a whole I'll reiterate that again, far more than ND is suggesting, .....

You still don't get it.
The 18% figure is the combined average for Burnley and Pendle. You don't add anything together.
The percentage for Burnley is 11%, so you should be able to calculate that - unsurprisingly - the figure for Pendle is about 23%.
And I'm not suggesting anything, I'm simply quoting from the official source.
These comprehensive employment statistics pretty much correlate with the demographics of both boroughs, but you can extrapolate a lot more from this data if you really take time to analyse it.
As I've tried to explain: attempting to add in "illegal" workers, (numbers obviously unknown) doesn't help us to "re-calculate" the percentage unless we also attempt calculate how many "White British" (including retired, students, and those in full time self-employment) are also working "illegally".
And just to add (of course) that only a very small percentage of the 11%, (or 18% if you like) are from the EU. They're overwhelmingly of Asian heritage, and that number is likely to rise as the number of EU workers decreases.

[Jakubclaret]

You still don't get it the 18% figure is the combined average for Burnley and Pendle. You don't add anything together.
The percentage for Burnley is 11%, so you should be able to calculate that - unsurprisingly - the figure for Pendle is about 23%.
And I'm not suggesting anything, I'm simply quoting from the official source.
These comprehensive employment statistics pretty much correlate with the demographics of both boroughs, but you can extrapolate a lot more from this data if you really take time to analyse it.

Sorry my error, I was reducing when I should have adding, that's very high & that's not even including the people we don't know about, that's shocking I seriously need to sit down.

[Jakubclaret]

You still don't get it.
The 18% figure is the combined average for Burnley and Pendle. You don't add anything together.
The percentage for Burnley is 11%, so you should be able to calculate that - unsurprisingly - the figure for Pendle is about 23%.
And I'm not suggesting anything, I'm simply quoting from the official source.
These comprehensive employment statistics pretty much correlate with the demographics of both boroughs, but you can extrapolate a lot more from this data if you really take time to analyse it.
As I've tried to explain: attempting to add in "illegal" workers, (numbers obviously unknown) doesn't help us to "re-calculate" the percentage unless we also attempt calculate how many "White British" (including retired, students, and those in full time self-employment) are also working "illegally".
And just to add (of course) that only a very small percentage of the 11%, (or 18% if you like) are from the EU. They're overwhelmingly of Asian heritage, and that number is likely to rise as the number of EU workers decreases.

But why would people born & bred here with passports & national insurance documents attempt to work illegally, it would be far more likely people without passports & no national insurance documents to work illegally, I understand the odd jobs, mobile hairdressers or on a Saturday morning - Jim can you just have a look at my motor something doesn't sound right, I guess it's all about the scale.

[Burnley Ace]

But why would people born & bred here with passports & national insurance documents attempt to work illegally,

So they don’t pay tax and NI and can still claim benefits!

[Jakubclaret]

So they don’t pay tax and NI and can still claim benefits!

Perhaps, I don't think like that, you could be right, maybe the people I know are above board & do everything by the book.

[nil_desperandum]

Perhaps, I don't think like that, you could be right, maybe the people I know are above board & do everything by the book.

So you never pay anyone for a service by cash? / No one ever asks you to pay in cash?

[nil_desperandum]

So they don’t pay tax and NI and can still claim benefits!

Maybe in some cases, but in the majority of cases they aren't claiming benefits, it's just simply a matter of avoiding taxes, NI and any other associated costs.
It's not a practice that is exclusive to any one particular demographic and in my experience the "White British" are just as likely to operate in this way as any other ethnic group. (That's really the point that I've been trying to make).

[Jakubclaret]

So you never pay anyone for a service by cash? / No one ever asks you to pay in cash?

No not really, I always insist upon a receipt I'm not being awkward trying to make the debate difficult, if it's anything to do with the car for example it all goes in the service handbooks leather binder, I don't have a gardener or a window cleaner & my girlfriend cuts my hair, I'm trying to think of occasions where I wouldn't need a receipt usually small purchases or casual services but I can't, no it's all strictly legitimate really the way I go about my business no comebacks that way.

[nil_desperandum]

I'm trying to think of occasions where I wouldn't need a receipt usually small purchases or casual services but I can't, no it's all strictly legitimate really the way I go about my business no comebacks that way.

In the normal course of business, (there are exceptions),it's entirely legitimate to pay anyone for anything in cash, and there's no legal requirement to ask for a receipt. It's down to the person providing the service whether they then comply with the law and declare 100% of it. There's no comeback on you unless you knowingly and consciously encourage tax evasion.

[Burnley Ace]

No not really, I always insist upon a receipt I'm not being awkward trying to make the debate difficult, if it's anything to do with the car for example it all goes in the service handbooks leather binder, I don't have a gardener or a window cleaner & my girlfriend cuts my hair, I'm trying to think of occasions where I wouldn't need a receipt usually small purchases or casual services but I can't, no it's all strictly legitimate really the way I go about my business no comebacks that way.

Do you get a receipt when you take a taxi?

[Jakubclaret]

Do you get a receipt when you take a taxi?

I drive, if I can't drive I catch the bus, if I can't catch the bus I walk, it's that simple.

[Jakubclaret]

In the normal course of business, (there are exceptions),it's entirely legitimate to pay anyone for anything in cash, and there's no legal requirement to ask for a receipt. It's down to the person providing the service whether they then comply with the law and declare 100% of it. There's no comeback on you unless you knowingly and consciously encourage tax evasion.

I'm well aware of that, in the past years ago it's happened a odd once or twice I know that much, that long ago I can't remember the exact circumstances, nowadays with buying online all the receipts are online.

[SammyBoy]

Brexit or no Brexit, the relentless globalisation of the world means that immigration is only going to increase, and there's nothing you can do about it. Britain will be less white-British so you might as well just accept it, if you voted leave thinking the UK's demographics might return to something akin to the 1950's or 60's I feel you will likely end up disappointed.

[Devils_Advocate]

Name that politician.....

"Vote Leave’s top economist Patrick Minford has admitted UK trade would face tariffs outside EU. Don't risk the economy - vote #Remain"

[Spijed]

I see Boris is promising the earth to everyone:

Now a bridge from Scotland to Northern Ireland
In addition to opening all the closed railway lines, HS2, 40 new hospitals, countless others being refurbished and reopening closed A&E departments.

How is it all going to be paid for without having massive national debt?

[Cryssys]

Brexit or no Brexit, the relentless globalisation of the world means that immigration is only going to increase, and there's nothing you can do about it. Britain will be less white-British so you might as well just accept it, if you voted leave thinking the UK's demographics might return to something akin to the 1950's or 60's I feel you will likely end up disappointed.

Many Brexiteers will be disappointed as they were somehow under the impression that we would be able to turn the clocks back once we have left the EU. Like King Canute they think that they can turn back the tide. They can't. As you rightly point out even if we closed our borders today the ethnic make up of the country will only become more diverse.

What makes me laugh is the way that some people on the Brexit thread talk about Asian immigrants in Burnley. They completely miss the fact that they are, in many instances, second and third generation and are British citizens.

[Spijed]

I see Boris is promising the earth to everyone:

Now a bridge from Scotland to Northern Ireland
In addition to opening all the closed railway lines, HS2, 40 new hospitals, countless others being refurbished and reopening closed A&E departments.

How is it all going to be paid for without having massive national debt?

His latest crackpot idea, waste billions on a bridge.

Mind you, a garden bridge in London that never got built cost £50 million.

Imagine the tourists that would have flocked to the capital just to see that!

[AndrewJB]

His latest crackpot idea, waste billions on a bridge.

Mind you, a garden bridge in London that never got built cost £50 million.

Imagine the tourists that would have flocked to the capital just to see that!

It was to be publicly financed, and privately owned. That’s Johnson, no public expense can be spared when enriching mates.

The bridge from Scotland is said to run over an area into which hundreds of thousands of tonnes of explosives were dumped after the war. Just like his airport island was planned near a bird sanctuary, and his cable car runs between two random areas of London without ongoing links, Johnson’s grand ideas often fall apart when introduced to reality - but apparently he doesn’t like being told no.

[Jakubclaret]

It was to be publicly financed, and privately owned. That’s Johnson, no public expense can be spared when enriching mates.

The bridge from Scotland is said to run over an area into which hundreds of thousands of tonnes of explosives were dumped after the war. Just like his airport island was planned near a bird sanctuary, and his cable car runs between two random areas of London without ongoing links, Johnson’s grand ideas often fall apart when introduced to reality - but apparently he doesn’t like being told no.

The depths of the Irish Sea in places are 1000 feet also, it’s too ambitious of a project, but you have to take yr hat off to him, it’s a bonkers idea but at least he’s thinking of ideas & not becoming stale like some PMs do historically when in Downing Street

[aggi]

Looks like it's now been admitted that there will be customs checks and "friction" in EU trade. Also saying the computer systems won't be ready until 2025. They should have got dsr to sort it.

[Bordeauxclaret]

The depths of the Irish Sea in places are 1000 feet also, it’s too ambitious of a project, but you have to take yr hat off to him, it’s a bonkers idea but at least he’s thinking of ideas & not becoming stale like some PMs do historically when in Downing Street

You have to take your hat off to him for thinking up a ridiculous idea that will never happen?

[TheFamilyCat]

You have to take your hat off to him for thinking up a ridiculous idea that will never happen?

We're gonna get jetpacks, we're gonna get jetpacks!

[Jakubclaret]

You have to take your hat off to him for thinking up a ridiculous idea that will never happen?

This 1 might be ridiculous, the engineering experts say it won’t happen, but the next 1 might not be, you should never discourage people from coming up with ideas, 22 miles long with the dumped munitions & 1000ft deep waters is a bridge too far, pardon the pun. He’ll come up with another bonkers project if he’s encouraged to.

[TheFamilyCat]

This 1 might be ridiculous, the engineering experts say it won’t happen, but the next 1 might not be, you should never discourage people from coming up with ideas, 22 miles long with the dumped munitions & 1000ft deep waters is a bridge too far, pardon the pun. He’ll come up with another bonkers project if he’s encouraged to.

I'm glad that the leader of this great nation is spending his time thinking up bonkers ideas. I suppose it keeps him away from the really important decisions though.

[Jakubclaret]

I'm glad that the leader of this great nation is spending his time thinking up bonkers ideas. I suppose it keeps him away from the really important decisions though.

People need to lighten up, at the moment the possibility is being explored to determine if it’s feasible & that’s all what’s happening at this stage.

[Spijed]

People need to lighten up, at the moment the possibility is being explored to determine if it’s feasible & that’s all what’s happening at this stage.

The problem is that £50 million was wasted on a fantasy bridge in London.

£50 million could have been spent on something worthwhile!

[Jakubclaret]

The problem is that £50 million was wasted on a fantasy bridge in London.

£50 million could have been spent on something worthwhile!

You mean the garden bridge? Sadiq khan was supposed to be completing.

[AndrewJB]

You mean the garden bridge? Sadiq khan was supposed to be completing.

Johnson spaffed £50 Million on the bridge without even a brick being laid. There are genuine questions about how the various contracts were awarded, and also about how the public purse was raided for something that was supposed to be a private enterprise.

Hilarious that you're so open to hugely expensive bonkers thinking by a man with a Napoleonic complex (are these ideas about making life better for Britons, or about his own legacy?), but when political parties put forward real ideas designed to improve the whole country - taking control of our network infrastructure and expanding it, or investing in a green revolution, for example - those ideas are "too expensive to implement". You're either consciously practicing double standards, or you've been manipulated by the media.

[martin_p]

The fact that this thread, and some of the media, are talking about an impossible bridge rather than the fact the government are admitting there’ll be no frictionless trade means that Johnson’s idea is as successful as it was designed to be.

[Spijed]

It's clearly obvious that companies will now have a mountain of paperwork to fill in as this "frictionless trade" was a complete and utter myth.

[AlargeClaret]

Quite astounding that some seem to think that we don’t already pay tariffs for imports from every non Eu country already . Goods come through customs electronically whether it’s from China,USA,India,South America etc and delays are extremely rare . Once trade deals are signed many tariffs will be reduced or removed entirely . As for future EU trade each nation knows that a free trade deal is in everyone’s interest . Though I fully expect the likes of Spain and possibly France to be extremely awkward . Remainers need to move on and make this work instead constantly whining, sulking and bitching

[ClaretAndJew]

Quite astounding that some seem to think that we don’t already pay tariffs for imports from every non Eu country already . Goods come through customs electronically whether it’s from China,USA,India,South America etc and delays are extremely rare . Once trade deals are signed many tariffs will be reduced or removed entirely . As for future EU trade each nation knows that a free trade deal is in everyone’s interest . Though I fully expect the likes of Spain and possibly France to be extremely awkward . Remainers need to move on and make this work instead constantly whining, sulking and bitching

It’s not people who voted remain that are stopping things from working.

[Colburn_Claret]

It's clearly obvious that companies will now have a mountain of paperwork to fill in as this "frictionless trade" was a complete and utter myth.

It was never a myth, just something that could never be guaranteed. It takes 2 to do a deal, and Boris only ever represented 1.
The mountain of paperwork is just typical remoaner rhetoric. There'll be paperwork to fill in, so what. The object of the game was never to avoid paperwork but to avoid the EU and ECJ. At the moment that's still on course to be a success.

But please dont stop looking for the negatives, on a quiet day it's always a good source for a laugh.

[CombatClaret]

It was never a myth, just something that could never be guaranteed. It takes 2 to do a deal, and Boris only ever represented 1.
The mountain of paperwork is just typical remoaner rhetoric. There'll be paperwork to fill in, so what. The object of the game was never to avoid paperwork but to avoid the EU and ECJ. At the moment that's still on course to be a success.

Stockholm Syndrome.

The government hammered home at every opportunity there would be no checks, frictionless trade, no extra 'red tape'.
And now it's happened guess what...

[CombatClaret]

2019: Mr Gove told a Border Delivery Group event: "The UK will be outside the single market and outside the customs union, so we will have to be ready for the customs procedures and regulatory checks that will inevitably follow."

2016:

image-asset.png (195.18 KiB) Viewed 3271 times

[Colburn_Claret]

Stockholm Syndrome.

The government hammered home at every opportunity there would be no checks, frictionless trade, no extra 'red tape'.
And now it's happened guess what...

Not really when they also said they were prepared to walk away with a WTO scenario. Which is almost guaranteed at the monent.
The problem is we aren't negotiating with the EU, it's the member states negotiating with each other. Spain insists on Gibraltar, France insists on fishing rights, Germany insists we have no economic advantages. We could get a deal with any of them, but we aren't going to get one that satisfies all. The internal argument over the future budget for the next 7 years has also got them at each others throats.
It all highlights the problem with the EU. You cant have a one shoe fits all economic policy, or environmental policy, or any other kind of policy. Someone always gains, and someone always loses . We need the flexibility of independence to negotiate the waters of the world. If that means filling in a few forms so what. Far better than a 6 headed, 17 legged monster, pulling in every direction at once.

[aggi]

Not really when they also said they were prepared to walk away with a WTO scenario. Which is almost guaranteed at the monent.
The problem is we aren't negotiating with the EU, it's the member states negotiating with each other. Spain insists on Gibraltar, France insists on fishing rights, Germany insists we have no economic advantages. We could get a deal with any of them, but we aren't going to get one that satisfies all. The internal argument over the future budget for the next 7 years has also got them at each others throats.
It all highlights the problem with the EU. You cant have a one shoe fits all economic policy, or environmental policy, or any other kind of policy. Someone always gains, and someone always loses . We need the flexibility of independence to negotiate the waters of the world. If that means filling in a few forms so what. Far better than a 6 headed, 17 legged monster, pulling in every direction at once.

That can't be right. Brexiteers have been insisting that the EU (whatever that entity is) have all the power and the member states are subservient to it and have to do what they're told.