Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[martin_p]

Here’s another confirmed (by the government) Johnson lie on Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2 ... SApp_Other

[CombatClaret]

Here’s another confirmed (by the government) Johnson lie on Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2 ... SApp_Other

Shocked, shocked I tell you.
He hasn't lied since (checks notes) yesterday!

[tiger76]

Funny i thought the motor industry was going to abandon the UK post-brexit https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/nissa ... 5534.html

[Devils_Advocate]

Funny i thought the motor industry was going to abandon the UK post-brexit https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/nissa ... 5534.html

Its a nice story and if true would be fantastic for the area but Nissan has not made any official statement on this subject

This at best is just a speculative story by Nikkei Shimbun on Nissan’s future production strategy but with this govt and Brexit we should be ready to grasp at any straws available

I believe Nissans revised midterm plan and strategy is due for 28th May so lets hope that the rumours and speculation turns out to be true

[aggi]

Funny i thought the motor industry was going to abandon the UK post-brexit https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/nissa ... 5534.html

It would be great if that does happen. Weird article though, the only part about moving stuff was

Renault is said to be planning to move production of pick-up trucks currently made in Barcelona to South Africa, and shift its electric van to France

I couldn't work out whether these parts may be coming to the UK or that was just other factories.

[aggi]

Here’s another confirmed (by the government) Johnson lie on Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2 ... SApp_Other

Anyone who believed this wasn't going to be the case was, at best, incredibly gullible.

However, the lie served its purpose. Those gullible people believed it at the time and they won't notice the subsequent "correction".

[AndrewJB]

Johnson’s MO. Lie and get what you want. Repeat. By the time the truth comes out about the first lie, he’ll be many more lies ahead.

[RingoMcCartney]

Myth -

"Nation states need to be part of a greater European union. In a global 21st century individual countries can no longer face challenges alone in the world. Only by being part of a strong , cooperative group where resources are shared for the greater good can new world wide challenges be faced"

Enter the unprecedented global pandemic known as Covid 19.


Italy - " Please help us with finance and equipment"

Germany " Deutschland Uber Alles"









Myth busted.

[Devils_Advocate]

Italy - "Please help us"

Germany - https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/02/germany- ... -12499518/

[TheFamilyCat]

Myth-bust busted?

[fanzone]

Now we are undoubtedly facing a recession or even a depression would now be the best time to stroke No Deal and go for broke on our own

[Devils_Advocate]

I would say definitely not for a couple of reasons

First when businesses are trying to deal with one crisis the logic lets chuck another one in and take the hit all at once will not work in reality. A No Deal brexit is just gonna push a lot more business (already struggling) over the edge and multiply by several factors the overall impact

Secondly we are already seeing a political trend towards nationalism and isolationism and the Covid fallout is likely to drive this more towards protectionism rather than globalisation. With that in mind now is not the time to be a small player out on your own to get pushed about by the rest of the world.

What we could really do with is being part of a trading block that has the power to influence negotiations and get great deals that benefits its members but hey ho

[keith1879]

Think we are far too dependent on international trade to imagine that we can get an advantage from such a strategy. The realistic alternative to Europe is not "on our own"....it's the far east. (Personally I don't ever expect a huge increase in trade with USA).

[jrgbfc]

The Tories seem hell bent on no deal, despite the risks. The looming recession also gives them the perfect excuse. When their no deal Brexit turns into a disaster they'll just shrug their shoulders and blame it on the coronavirus.

[martin_p]

Myth -

"Nation states need to be part of a greater European union. In a global 21st century individual countries can no longer face challenges alone in the world. Only by being part of a strong , cooperative group where resources are shared for the greater good can new world wide challenges be faced"

Enter the unprecedented global pandemic known as Covid 19.


Italy - " Please help us with finance and equipment"

Germany " Deutschland Uber Alles"









Myth busted.

Wrongo doing what he does best, getting things wrong

[huw.Y.WattfromWare]

....it's the far east. (Personally I don't ever expect a huge increase in trade with USA).

FAR EAST! How scary is that?
I think you are wrong about the USA. This is BoJos plot. To get us into bed with the Yanks. They’ll be all over the NHS in 2 years.

[nil_desperandum]

When their no deal Brexit turns into a disaster they'll just shrug their shoulders and blame it on the coronavirus.

Not forgetting that they'll try to apportion a large chunk of blame on the EU as well, even though leaving is entirely our own choice.

[clarethomer]

Here are my thoughts

- The EU are also going to face economic challenges - in fact their biggest economy is already in recession.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/li ... iness-live

- The EU are currently suing us as a country for not implementing things they want - at a time where they are trying to keep us a close working partner and convince us that a level playing field is in our interest

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-eu-la ... t-11988361

- The EU are also threatening Germany for legal action because their constitutional court disagrees with QE measures being agreed by the bloc.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-ecb-p ... KKBN22P0Y9

All of the above tells me that it's not all sunshine and rainbows being part of the EU as some would make out to be.

The cost of extending is too much now for the UK - no say in budgets and being tied to ECJ etc. I would say almost no chance of us extending now. In fact I think that what will happen;

1 - Is that the EU will have to either ask us for an extension - which weakens their position significantly, or

2 - they will look to save face and say that they tried and WTO it is. This will then mean they face the consequences internally for things like fishing rights, loss of trading opportunity with us etc.

I therefore think we will get something before we leave and WTO won't happen.

What we don't want is to be in a situation where the EU can tie us in with no say. Especially when they have big budgets, with big holes now in them. I think the last place we want to be is tied to supporting 27 other states at a time where we need to sort our own economy out.

[dsr]

The EU has the Euro, and the Euro is going to have an interesting year or two, what with Italy (and to a lesser extent Spain) being chief sufferers with the virus. I wouldn't want to get involved with any bailouts.

As for free trade, it's a fine idea. But perhaps we ought to add that as well as having free trade, we want the right to set EU laws, the right for UK judges to rule on all disputes between the UK and the EU, and the right to fish from and set the rules for EU fishing grounds. A lot of people think those are fair conditions - so let's see if the EU accepts them.

[Tribesmen]

Yep all pointing to the UK to pull out with nothing .

Good luck lads

[Targetman]

The EU has the Euro, and the Euro is going to have an interesting year or two, what with Italy (and to a lesser extent Spain) being chief sufferers with the virus. I wouldn't want to get involved with any bailouts.

As for free trade, it's a fine idea. But perhaps we ought to add that as well as having free trade, we want the right to set EU laws, the right for UK judges to rule on all disputes between the UK and the EU, and the right to fish from and set the rules for EU fishing grounds. A lot of people think those are fair conditions - so let's see if the EU accepts them.

I really like your last paragraph!

[Burnley Ace]

we want the right to set EU laws - do we, not seen that in any proposal

the right for UK judges to rule on all disputes between the UK and the EU - we have suggested a 3 man tribunal with a judge from each country and an independent 3rd

and the right to fish from and set the rules for EU fishing grounds - for EU fishermen wanting to fish in UK waters.

A lot of people think those are fair conditions - so let's see if the EU accepts them.

[Alanstevensonsgloves]

The Tories seem hell bent on no deal, despite the risks. The looming recession also gives them the perfect excuse. When their no deal Brexit turns into a disaster they'll just shrug their shoulders and blame it on the coronavirus.

Just how do you know that? Are you part of the negotiating team? If yes then OK you are right. If not, then you don't understand how negotiating works.

[RingoMcCartney]

Italy - "Please help us"

Germany - https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/02/germany- ... -12499518/

Too little too late

If only youd done a little more research. You'd have found -

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN20T166

EU fails to persuade France, Germany to lift coronavirus health gear controls

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-aims ... responses/

Europe fails to help Italy in coronavirus fight

Rome's requests for face masks and medical gear have been met with silence.

EU countries have so far refused Italy’s plea for help fighting coronavirus, as national capitals worry that they may need to stockpile face masks and other medical gear to help their own citizens, officials and diplomats said.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronaviru ... 1586525523

Coronavirus Crisis Threatens to Split an Already Fractured EUPandemic has deepened long-running tensions between hardest-hit southern nations and the financially stronger north.

Italy, the country hit hardest by the coronavirus in Europe, seethed at the refusal of Germany and other EU nations to offer medical help and supplies in the early days of the pandemic in March.

In this emotionally charged climate, what to German politicians is fiscal prudence looks like an act of war to many Italians. In a recent opinion poll, 70% of Italians said that Germany is trying to “strangle” their country, with only 16% disagreeing. A majority of voters for every Italian party, including traditionally pro-EU ones, endorsed that view.

As for financial help and acting as one-

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... lutionary/

Germany’s top court clashes with European Central Bank in revolutionary ruling

The German court decision threatens to undermine confidence in the euro and kills off any hope of eurobonds or joint debt issuance

Germany’s top court has fired a cannon shot across the bows of the European Central Bank and accused the European Court of breaching EU treaty law, marking an epic clash of rival judicial supremacy.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2210NJ

Italy PM calls for EU solidarity in support of coronabonds

Conte said Germany and the Netherlands must change their views to signal that Europe speaks as one, adding he wanted the joint bonds to be specifically applied and limited in time.

Germany, Europe's biggest economy, flanked by the Netherlands, has said it does not consider common euro zone bonds the right way to support health spending and economic rescue packages in the 19-nation euro currency bloc.

Even the Guardian!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... etherlands


Just when Italy really needed some unity, the EU failed it – and continues to do so

Even faced with another great depression, wealthier EU countries are resisting action on debt that could ultimately keep the union together



https://www.ft.com/content/be438521-7a3 ... 603c3d26cd

Italian debt sinks after ‘corona bond’ plan falters ‘It’s every man for himself’ as countries rack up debt to fight Covid-19 pandemic

[Devils_Advocate]

Italy - "Please help us"

Germany - https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/02/germany- ... -12499518/

[RingoMcCartney]

Wrongo doing what he does best, getting things wrong

RingoMcCartney , The Wall Street Journal , Reuters, The Daily telegraph, politico. eu, The Guardian and the Financial Times. Getting it right.

Some bloke on a football message board being proven wrong.

[RingoMcCartney]

Italy - "Please help us"

Germany - https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/02/germany- ... -12499518/

Your article is dated 2 April

Too.......little.......too.......late.......


From the 19th April. Your beloved Guardian even agrees with me!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... etherlands


Just when Italy really needed some unity, the EU failed it – and continues to do so

Even faced with another great depression, wealthier EU countries are resisting action on debt that could ultimately keep the union together

[RingoMcCartney]

Myth-

#EUstrongertogether.

Coronavirus.

"Every man for himself"

Myth busted.

[evensteadiereddie]

[Devils_Advocate]

Italy - "Please help us"

Germany - https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/02/germany- ... -12499518/

We're in the middle of a global, life threatening, crisis and a sad, blinkered, sniping noisy Brexiteer is attempting to criticise the EU and make futile political capital from an horrendous situation.

It may come as a surprise to you and your cohort of, know-it-all, keyboard EU experts but there is no special lever that has a sign above it saying , "For perfection please pull here"

[RingoMcCartney]

Italy - "Please help us"

Germany - https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/02/germany- ... -12499518/

We're in the middle of a global, life threatening, crisis and a sad, blinkered, sniping noisy Brexiteer is attempting to criticise the EU and make futile political capital from an horrendous situation.

It may come as a surprise to you and your cohort of, know-it-all, keyboard EU experts but there is no special lever that has a sign above it saying , "For perfection please pull here"

As you'll be fully aware, I've said on many occasions that there is no lever that has a sign above it saying- "for perfection response to unprecedented global pandemic pull here "

However, it now transpires that another lever is non existent as well!

The one that would have said -

"For a united response, in a display of European solidarity. To demonstrate that nation states are #strongertogether. To activate the sharing of essential medical supplies. To facilitate the sharing of the massive financial burden brought about by this global pandemic and act as one European union of equals. Pull here"

Here's the good news! Next to the statement-

"Myth -

"Nation states need to be part of a greater European union. In a global 21st century individual countries can no longer face challenges alone in the world. Only by being part of a strong , cooperative group where resources are shared for the greater good can new world wide challenges be faced"


There actually is a lever that says -

"Pull here to bust the above myth"

And , with the help of The Wall Street Journal , Reuters, The Daily telegraph, politico. eu, The Guardian and the Financial Times.

I pulled it!

[evensteadiereddie]

You've been pulling something a little too much, some might say.

[Devils_Advocate]

Italy - "Please help us"

Germany - https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/02/germany- ... -12499518/

But lets have some perspective and stop this game playing - https://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboa ... 4#p1275814

[Tall Paul]

Its amost as if the EU doesnt have the power to force sovereign nations to do things that they don't want to do.

Who would've thought it?

[tiger76]

Italians becoming less europhile?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52666870

New immigration bill returns to the HOC https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-52701843

[Paul Waine]

The Times, today.

Brussels ‘ready to back down’ on call for more fishing rights

The European Union is ready to back down from its hard line on fishing rights next month once Europe’s leaders get involved in post-Brexit trade negotiations, according to senior sources in Brussels.

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, has struggled to gain “attention” from European capitals during the coronavirus crisis on the need to shift from what he has conceded is a “maximalist” mandate on fisheries demanded by France, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands.

Meanwhile David Frost, Boris Johnson’s chief negotiator, has suffered from Downing Street’s focus on the virus as he searches for “trade-offs” on key trade and economy areas.

Both sides are preparing for a renewed diplomatic focus on Brexit to begin next month between London and other capitals as the EU and UK begin to emerge from lockdowns and crisis management to prepare for the worst recession in 90 years.

Mr Barnier faces a problem with his mandate on fisheries that, because of demands supported by President Macron, effectively require Britain to offer European fishermen the same access to British waters as required by EU membership. “We should probably get more realistic about our fishing position,” a senior European diplomatic source said. “These are the things that have to be decided at a much higher level than Frost or Barnier. The pandemic is destroying everything in the sense that everybody’s mind is focused on something totally different to Brexit, which is the recovery in the exit strategy.”

Mr Frost will publish British negotiating texts and legal drafts this week so that European governments are able to see possible “landing zones” and “trade-offs” on fishing and “level playing field” demands for regulatory alignment. British officials close to the talks said that Mr Barnier knows he has a problem and is not getting the attention needed because of Covid-19.

“He’s doing a good job with the hand he’s been given,” Mr Frost said last Friday after a round of talks. “He must know that the mandate is unnegotiable in at least some important areas.”

Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, said he hoped that the EU would review Mr Barnier’s mandate. “We’re making it clear to the EU we can’t do a deal on those terms,” he told Sky News yesterday. “I am confident that there is a deal to be done. It just requires flexibility on the EU side.”
During secret talks, the EU has signalled that the European stance on “level playing field” demands for regulatory alignment and a role for the European Court of Justice are more flexible than presented, publicly, by Mr Frost and the government.

“A sort of spectre has been created in the UK about continuing to copy and paste to align indefinitely to EU standards. The reality is different,” the European source said. “The UK, for example, has its own domestic legislation on climate neutrality contrary to probably the vast bulk of the EU member states; it shouldn’t be that complicated.”

The EU does not expect the government to ask for an extension to the transition period next month to keep the UK in Europe’s single market and customs union beyond the end of the year.

“They will probably come in June and say, ‘look, we need to redouble our efforts’ to find common ground [before] autumn,” the European source said. “I’m not overly confident that they wouldn’t want to change their mind on an extension later on.”

Race to clinch trade deals

Trade deals secured by the UK as it leaves the EU cover only 6 per cent of its commerce with the world (Callum Jones writes).

Boris Johnson’s government has vowed to ensure 80 per cent of imports and exports are covered by free trade agreements within three years. Whitehall officials have shored up 19 of the EU’s trade pacts, including with Switzerland and South Korea.

Analysis of statistics published by the Department for International Trade shows that of Britain’s £1.4 trillion trade last year, £84.8 billion — or about 6 per cent — was covered by agreements. A further 47 per cent of trade was with the EU, while 16 per cent was with the US. The first round of talks with Washington concluded on Friday.

Emily Thornberry, Labour’s shadow trade secretary, said that the figures pointed “to a grim reality”. The trade department said that it had completed 75 per cent of its targeted deals “and we are working to have the rest done by January”.

[Swizzlestick]

France, Germany Propose €500 Billion EU Pandemic Recovery Fund

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wsj. ... 1589826351

[martin_p]

Michael Gove confirms there will be border inspection posts for agri/food entering NI from the mainland.

A few people have got egg on their faces on this thread over this. Shame LancasterClaret isn’t still around, he knew what he was talking about on this but plenty thought they knew better.

[TheFamilyCat]

Michael Gove confirms there will be border inspection posts for agri/food entering NI from the mainland.

A few people have got egg on their faces on this thread over this. Shame LancasterClaret isn’t still around, he knew what he was talking about on this but plenty thought they knew better.

Yeah, buy it's Michael Gove saying it so.....

[aggi]

I see that net EU migration to the UK is well down which should make some people happy. Obviously, as predicted many times, net migration to the UK is pretty much the same as usual with non-EU migration increasing to compensate for it.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-52752656

[Quickenthetempo]

Can we ever get a real grip on illegal immigration in this country?

Nigel Farage has posted videos allegedly showing the French Navy escorting boats into our waters so we have to house them, despite us paying millions to for Frances help.

The Government ask illegals to make their own way home at their own cost. Do any of them actually go home?

It's obvious the Government want as many poor people as possible coming over, as the rich make a fortune off them.

[tiger76]

Can we ever get a real grip on illegal immigration in this country?

Nigel Farage has posted videos allegedly showing the French Navy escorting boats into our waters so we have to house them, despite us paying millions to for Frances help.

The Government ask illegals to make their own way home at their own cost. Do any of them actually go home?

It's obvious the Government want as many poor people as possible coming over, as the rich make a fortune off them.

I'm glad someone's highlighted illegal immigration,another 5 boats attempted to cross the channel yesterdayhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-52747770

As to whether they return home,wherever home actually is.This report from a few months ago suggests most don't.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50813246

The only winners from this are the people traffickers and the human rights lawyers.

That reminds me what's Cherie Blair's profession again?

[TheFamilyCat]

Can we ever get a real grip on illegal immigration in this country?

Probably not, although some believe that we voted to take back control of our borders so I'm sure they'll be expecting it. Wonder who they'll blame when it doesn't happen.

[SammyBoy]

I see that net EU migration to the UK is well down which should make some people happy. Obviously, as predicted many times, net migration to the UK is pretty much the same as usual with non-EU migration increasing to compensate for it.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-52752656

Yeah, I always thought the people concerned with immigration would on balance prefer the white/Christian immigration from the EU to the Commonwealth based alternative.

[tiger76]

Probably not, although some believe that we voted to take back control of our borders so I'm sure they'll be expecting it. Wonder who they'll blame when it doesn't happen.

I'd expect they'll blame the government,if the government put as much effort into dealing with the illegal immigration,as they insist on setting daft targets that have never been met in almost a decade they might actually get somewhere.

[TheFamilyCat]

I'd expect they'll blame the government,if the government put as much effort into dealing with the illegal immigration,as they insist on setting daft targets that have never been met in almost a decade they might actually get somewhere.

I think they may be more inclined to try and blame some leftie liberals.

[tiger76]

I think they may be more inclined to try and blame some leftie liberals.

Well they can't blame the EU anymore,and last time i checked the Conservatives have been in power for 10 years one way or another,either as a majority government or as the main party in coalitions.

Time to take responsibility and grasp the nettle,if they don't Farage is lurking in the shadows.

[aggi]

Well they can't blame the EU anymore,and last time i checked the Conservatives have been in power for 10 years one way or another,either as a majority government or as the main party in coalitions.

Time to take responsibility and grasp the nettle,if they don't Farage is lurking in the shadows.

I admire your optimism but the EU is going to be the bogeyman for many years to come I reckon.

I'd say Farage is a busted flush now, look at how easily his Brexit Party were outmanoeuvred in the GE, hence his current publicity stunts.

[tiger76]

What's Barnier's motive here?

Michel Barnier criticises UK chief negotiator's tone in trade deal letter

Michel Barnier has told David Frost that trade negotiations will fail unless Britain gives in to EU demands as he criticised the UK's chief negotiator's "tone".

Mr Barnier reacted furiously after receiving a letter from Mr Frost describing Brussels’ trade deal offer as a “low quality trade agreement”.

The EU’s chief negotiator wrote back on Wednesday to tell Mr Frost, his UK counterpart, an exchange of letters was not the best way to conduct trade negotiations.

“It cannot be a substitute for serious engagement and detailed negotiations,” Mr Barnier scolded, “in particular, I would not like the tone that you have taken to impact the mutual trust and constructive attitude that is essential between us.”

“The success of our negotiation will only be possible if tangible and parallel progress is made across all areas of negotiations,” Mr Barnier told Mr Frost, “including engagement on and commitments to a level playing field and appropriate governance mechanisms, as well as to balanced, sustainable and long-term arrangements on fisheries.”

“The next round must bring this new dynamism in order to avoid a stalemate,” Mr Barnier wrote after last week’s round ended in mutual recrimination.

“What is on offer is not a fair free trade agreement between close economic partners but a relatively low quality trade agreement coming with unprecedented EU oversight of our laws and institutions," Mr Frost wrote to Mr Barnier on Tuesday.

Britain argues that EU demands for level playing field guarantees are far stricter than those asked from countries like Canada. The EU says the stricter guarantees are needed to ensure fair competition due to the proximity of the UK market.

“Just as we do not accept selective benefits in the Single Market without the corresponding obligations, we also do not accept cherry picking from our past agreements,” Mr Barnier said, “The EU is looking to the future, not to the past, in these negotiations,” he said.

“The EU and the UK are equally sovereign and as such will set the conditions for access to their respective markets. Regardless of what your letter suggests, there is no automatic entitlement to any benefits that the EU may have offered or granted in other contexts and circumstances to other, often very different, partners.”

Mr Barnier denied that EU demands for level playing field guarantees in state aid, labour rights, tax, and the environment would prevent the UK diverging from Brussels’ rules and regulations.

“This does not mean that the UK would be bound by EU law after the end of the transition period in these areas; the UK will remain entirely free to set its own higher standards.”

Mr Barnier accused the UK of reducing “the ambition” of the zero tariff, zero quota trade deal both sides profess to want by suggesting it could accept some tariffs in return for less stringent level playing field guarantees.

“Apart from the fact that we do not have necessary time for a negotiation on each tariff line, the EU has always made clear that any future trade agreement between us will have to include strong level playing field guarantees, irrespective of whether it covers 98 per cent or 100 per cent of tariff lines," he said.

[Devils_Advocate]

Trouble is that Frost's letter was in truth written for UK consumption and for the Brexit media. Frost has direct access to Barnier and could easily have told him to his face why their EU negotiating position is wrong.

The danger is Brexit Britain is still just talking to itself which in a key negotiation period with the EU and the rest of the world is slightly concerning