Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[evensteadiereddie]

Fetch what ?

Your medication ?
More ale ?
Another box of tissues ?

[RingoMcCartney]

Yes there was and there still is. But as others have pointed out you said that ‘project fear’ said the plant ‘would’ close down, which is a lie.

Here’s one for you.

There is a threat the Nissan plant in Sunderland could close down in the event of no, or a poor, trade deal.

Yes or no?

Is it being said that there is a threat the Nissan plant in Sunderland could close down in the event of no, or a poor, trade deal.?

Yes.


Being said and being believed by the very same people who said the plant would shut and are now trying to deny it!

[RingoMcCartney]

I'm not embarrassed.

Cat got your tongue?


Was there a threat of closure of the Nissan plant if we voted to leave the EU?

Given you've now admitted, "The Japanese car company’s threat that it could quit the region over Brexit" (I've underlined it if that helps)."

Yes or no?

[TheFamilyCat]

Is it being said that there is a threat the Nissan plant in Sunderland could close down in the event of no, or a poor, trade deal.?

Yes.


Being said and being believed by the very same people who said the plant would shut and are now trying to deny it!

Let's go back to the start, yiou were the only person saying that the plant would shut and is now trying to deny it.

[martin_p]

Is it being said that there is a threat the Nissan plant in Sunderland could close down in the event of no, or a poor, trade deal.?

Yes.


Being said and being believed by the very same people who said the plant would shut and are now trying to deny it!

Find me a single instance of someone saying the plant would shut and you’ll have a point. You can’t because it was only ever a possibility, a possibility that remains.

It is being said by Nissan themselves, so if you don’t believe them you do think they are lying despite ‘not claiming they’re lying’.

[TheFamilyCat]

Cat got your tongue?


Was there a threat of closure of the Nissan plant if we voted to leave the EU?

Given you've now admitted, "The Japanese car company’s threat that it could quit the region over Brexit" (I've underlined it if that helps)."

Yes or no?

Pfft.

I haven't admitted anything. I have simply pointed out the word in your "evidence" that shows that the article you quoted did not substantiate your claim.

So we're back to square one: can you find any evidence of anyone, anywhere (other than you) claiming that the Nissan plant would close if we left the EU?

[AndrewJB]

"Project fear "was just the Remain side of the tory party and a few right wingers"



More history rewriting!

Apart from the libdems, the SNP, the Guardian, the daily mirror, The People, The Observer , Mark Carney,
The Sunday Mail, the BBC, Gordon Brown, Tony Blair, Alistair "confidence in the UK economy will evaporate overnight should we vote to leave, The treasury, Alistair Campbell and many trade unions leaders.

Yep! Apart from them and many more
"just the Remain side of the tory party and a few right wingers"



As for

David Cameron: "leave vote would be economic bomb for UK"

850 000 extra unemployed following a vote to leave , The Treasury assured us. Lie. Employment reached record levels

Emergency budget. Osborne. Lie. Didnt happen.

Possibly another emergency budget by Christmas - mark carney. Lie. Didnt happen

Stock market crash. Lie. Didnt happen

Siemens to leave.Lie. Didnt happen

Nissan to leave.Lie. Didnt happen and Sunderland set to be European HQ.

Housing market crash.Lie. Didnt happen

A "brexodous" of talent. Lie. Didnt happen

Project fear as I saw it was Cameron and Osborne. Yes other people warned against the damage brexit could do but not in quite the same over the top way. Project fear was also the crazy claims made by the leave side - 75 million Turks, and long queues of refugees waiting to pile into the country. Johnson’s claim that the EU represented the rebirth of the Third Reich.

[RingoMcCartney]

Pfft.

I haven't admitted anything. I have simply pointed out the word in your "evidence" that shows that the article you quoted did not substantiate your claim.

So we're back to square one: can you find any evidence of anyone, anywhere (other than you) claiming that the Nissan plant would close if we left the EU?

This is you -

The 'could' quite clearly was in reference to the line "The Japanese car company’s threat that it could quit the region over Brexit" (I've underlined it if that helps).

Was there a threat of closure of the Nissan plant if we voted to leave the EU?

Yes or no?

[Greenmile]

Looks like the underlining didn’t help.

[RingoMcCartney]

I think someone has already made reference to "If you throw enough **** ..."

It's amusing how proud you are of being able to "predict" (if you don't count all of your wrong predictions obviously) something that most people could see coming.

I managed to make this prediction in September so I guess if I was that desperate for validation I could start telling everyone I'm mystic aggi

I reckon the plan is a general election ("forced" on Johnson by those dastardly rebels).

Election will be run on a politicians vs the people basis and return an increased majority (Brexit party will fail miserably).

The increased majority will end the reliance on the DUP which will mean Johnson can shift the backstop to NI only and leave on that basis.

Old habits die hard.

Once again you're wilfully misrepresenting what I said in relation to leaving the EU on the 31st of Jan.

I didnt predict that. I just voted in a way that helped to bring it about.

[RingoMcCartney]

Find me a single instance of someone saying the plant would shut and you’ll have a point. You can’t because it was only ever a possibility, a possibility that remains.

It is being said by Nissan themselves, so if you don’t believe them you do think they are lying despite ‘not claiming they’re lying’.

This is the Guardian confirming that the plant faced potential closure.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... nsequences


Nissan decision to stay in Sunderland averts ‘catastrophic’ consequences

The Japanese car company’s threat that it could quit the region over Brexit had, like the referendum itself, left an open wound in Sunderland.

Richard Boardman: "If Nissan leaves the North East it would be a disaster. It's not just the Nissan plant - it's all the smaller companies that build and provide. Be realistic, Sunderland needs Nissan!"

The fact that this was written just after the referendum, means the journalist cannot say, "will shut". But the clear and unequivocal reference is there.

This was the BBC confirming there was a question mark over the plants future.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24859486


8 November 2013

Nissan boss warns UK over possible EU exit.

"Nissan will reconsider its investment in the UK if Britain leaves the European Union, chief executive Carlos Ghosn has told the BBC."

If you want to ignore the clear implication and pretend it's anything other than the ultimate threat of closure , that's fine.

This is what the people of Sunderland had come to understand about the plants future-

Lloyd Ismington: "Without Nissan then there will be a big drop in cash in Sunderland, people not making mortgage payments, not supporting bars/shops. The knock-on effect would be disastrous."


Shirley Herbertson: "Sunderland was the highest Leave vote in the country. I’m afraid they have voted themselves out of jobs!"


Margo Lax: "We had ship building and mines ... all gone. Nissan became a big part of our economy. Sunderland will die if they pull out."

Alexandra Kellett: "If Nissan goes then the whole of the North East will be hit hard -


https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/19- ... ant-348299

[TheFamilyCat]

This is you -



Was there a threat of closure of the Nissan plant if we voted to leave the EU?

Yes or no?

After carefully considering the evidence presented, I have decided to base my response on this, taken from a link you bizarrely tried to use in support of your claim that the plant would close:

"Nissan will reconsider its investment in the UK if Britain leaves the European Union, chief executive Carlos Ghosn has told the BBC"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24859486

My answer, therefore is 'no'.

[aggi]

Old habits die hard.

Once again you're wilfully misrepresenting what I said in relation to leaving the EU on the 31st of Jan.

I didnt predict that. I just voted in a way that helped to bring it about.

I haven't mentioned anything about leaving the EU on 31st Jan, that was just one of your irrelevant non sequiturs that I assume you throw in to try and divert the topic. I was just referencing your wide array of predictions (the ****) and how if you make enough (the throwing) some will turn out to be correct (the sticking).

[RingoMcCartney]

After carefully considering the evidence presented, I have decided to base my response on this, taken from a link you bizarrely tried to use in support of your claim that the plant would close:

"Nissan will reconsider its investment in the UK if Britain leaves the European Union, chief executive Carlos Ghosn has told the BBC"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24859486

My answer, therefore is 'no'.

So, now you're saying there wasnt a threat of closure of the Sunderland plant!



But this is you saying nissan had threatened it could "quit".

The 'could' quite clearly was in reference to the line "The Japanese car company’s threat that it could quit the region over Brexit" (I've underlined it if that helps).

That clearly means there was a threat of closure of the Sunderland plant!

You've been dancing on a pinhead for a day or 2 now and its turned into the hokey cokey!

[TheFamilyCat]

So, now you're saying there wasnt a threat of closure of the Sunderland plant!



But this is you saying nissan had threatened it could "quit".



That clearly means there was a threat of closure of the Sunderland plant!

You've been dancing on a pinhead for a day or 2 now and its turned into the hokey cokey!

Not quite sure what you're getting at with the dance reference.

But let's stick with to the details.

At no point have I said "Nissan had threatened it could quit".

These words: "The Japanese car company’s threat that it could quit the region over Brexit" were not mine; I copied them from an article you linked (you do remember this don't you?). All I did was point out to you how the sentence didn't actually support your claim.

[martin_p]

This is the Guardian confirming that the plant faced potential closure.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... nsequences


Nissan decision to stay in Sunderland averts ‘catastrophic’ consequences

The Japanese car company’s threat that it could quit the region over Brexit had, like the referendum itself, left an open wound in Sunderland.

Richard Boardman: "If Nissan leaves the North East it would be a disaster. It's not just the Nissan plant - it's all the smaller companies that build and provide. Be realistic, Sunderland needs Nissan!"

The fact that this was written just after the referendum, means the journalist cannot say, "will shut". But the clear and unequivocal reference is there.

This was the BBC confirming there was a question mark over the plants future.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24859486


8 November 2013

Nissan boss warns UK over possible EU exit.

"Nissan will reconsider its investment in the UK if Britain leaves the European Union, chief executive Carlos Ghosn has told the BBC."

If you want to ignore the clear implication and pretend it's anything other than the ultimate threat of closure , that's fine.

This is what the people of Sunderland had come to understand about the plants future-

Lloyd Ismington: "Without Nissan then there will be a big drop in cash in Sunderland, people not making mortgage payments, not supporting bars/shops. The knock-on effect would be disastrous."


Shirley Herbertson: "Sunderland was the highest Leave vote in the country. I’m afraid they have voted themselves out of jobs!"


Margo Lax: "We had ship building and mines ... all gone. Nissan became a big part of our economy. Sunderland will die if they pull out."

Alexandra Kellett: "If Nissan goes then the whole of the North East will be hit hard -


https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/19- ... ant-348299

One of these words is not like the others, see if you can spot it.

Potential
Would
Could

If you’ve managed to work out that little conundrum you’ll know the difference between the words Nissan and the media (reporting what Nissan said) used and the word you used.

[TheFamilyCat]

When does the "floor wiping" start?

[TheFamilyCat]

Changing the subject slightly, Nissan really have played a blinder with Brexit.

The drop in a few comments about the impact of Brexit on the Sunderland plant and get themselves some state aid.

All the while stoking up clowns like Ringo into building the non-closure (which wasn't actually threatened) into some great beacon of Brexit celebration.

And they keep dropping these little hints, knowing full well that any negative impact on the plant would be hugely embarrassing for government and as a result will continue to scratch their back.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

We haven’t sought an extension to the transition period once. It ends on the date as defined in Theresa May’s original withdrawal agreement that assumed negotiations on a trade deal would start after we’d exited the EU on 29th March 2019. As we know we didn’t leave for another ten months and since we did the world has been somewhat preoccupied. Not to extend would be to deny the realities, recognised in the original WA, as to how long these things take (ignoring the fact that a global pandemic is also likely to hold things up somewhat).

We've had delays and extensions.


https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... /cbp-7960/

We either keep dithering, extend this transition period for an unknown period of time, during which we have no say in anything anymore or we just knuckle down and get on with it.

We are in no man's land right now and that's not a good place to be.
People and businesses keep demanding action and clarity for the future, delaying things won't help.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Project fear as I saw it was Cameron and Osborne. Yes other people warned against the damage brexit could do but not in quite the same over the top way. Project fear was also the crazy claims made by the leave side - 75 million Turks, and long queues of refugees waiting to pile into the country. Johnson’s claim that the EU represented the rebirth of the Third Reich.

We have queues of refugess waiting to enter the UK, we've had that for years now.
The EU also failed to deal with the migrant crisis 5 yrs ago which was made worse by Germany deciding everyone should be allowed in but with no real plan to help the EU members who are on the EU "Borders" deal with the influx that many didn't agree too.

I'm a little hazy on the finer details but haven't the ECB and the Germans had a falling out over EU financing/bailouts etc?
I'm not saying it's the same as a 3rd Reich, but the Germans shouldn't be trying to dictate to the ECB what it can and can't do.

[RingoMcCartney]

Not quite sure what you're getting at with the dance reference.

But let's stick with to the details.

At no point have I said "Nissan had threatened it could quit".

These words: "The Japanese car company’s threat that it could quit the region over Brexit" were not mine; I copied them from an article you linked (you do remember this don't you?). All I did was point out to you how the sentence didn't actually support your claim.

The squirming and wriggling is now getting to ridiculous levels!



You said

could, could, could, could, could, COULD

I asked you "could what exactly?" Your reply-

The 'could' quite clearly was in reference to the line "The Japanese car company’s threat that it could quit the region over Brexit" (I've underlined it if that helps).

Now, you have posted this link and highlighted this line "The Japanese car company’s threat that it could quit the region over Brexit" several times as evidence that it was widely claimed that the plant would close if the UK left the EU.

Do you see the difference?

Clearly attempting to argue there was a difference between ",could" and "would"

So even if it was "could", I asked whether that meant there was there a threat of closure of the Nissan plant if we voted to leave the EU?

You refused to answer.

And now you're meeting yourself coming back! By saying the quote you were happy to use when explaining what "could" happen as opposed to what "would" happen because the difference made my claim wrong. But now, because they were a quote, they can't be seen as something you agreed with!

[aggi]

Jesus, can someone please give Ringo a dictionary.

[timshorts]

Jesus, can someone please give Ringo a dictionary.

Yes or no?

[RingoMcCartney]

One of these words is not like the others, see if you can spot it.

Potential
Would
Could

If you’ve managed to work out that little conundrum you’ll know the difference between the words Nissan and the media (reporting what Nissan said) used and the word you used.

The lengths some will go to in a pathetic attempt to rewrite history!

Look if, prior to the City game in March, I'd said "we'll beat city." Given its postponement Id then said "I think we could have beaten City." Apart from the tense changing, given I'd be looking back, my opinion remained the same.

That's why articles that were written after the referendum say "could". Given their relativity to the , now past referendum. It wouldnt be grammatically correct to say "would" any longer.

And both you and ThefamilyCat know that and that's what hiding behind and clinging onto.

https://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2016 ... nvestment/

Sixty per cent of the city chose to leave the EU and were criticised for doing so by many Vote Remain campaigners due to the threat Nissan could pull out of the city.

Given this was written in October 2016, "could" is used. It does not mean , however , that the people of Sunderland had not been.lead to believe that if they voted to leave the plant would shut.

[timshorts]

Thinking about it that's a yes. I'm sure that one of my many elderly clients that have failed to survive the covid crisis could spare one. Thanks, Boris.
Where do I send it? The information on this site looks a bit out of date. Will it actually get there if I send it to:-
"Farage house,
The longest single road that this country has ever seen,
Burnley-by-Barnard castle
Little England'.

Yes or no?

Or will I need to include a lot of those little yellow smug faces on it as well





And a big gap.

[RingoMcCartney]

Jesus, can someone please give Ringo a dictionary.

No need. But could it be arranged for a few recent history books to be given out to our gaggle of reality denying remoaners please!?

[RingoMcCartney]

When does the "floor wiping" start?

Since june 23rd 2016, sadly for you , it's never really stopped!

[ksrclaret]

We've currently got more Covid deaths in the last 24 hours than the rest of the EU countries put together. That's 27 other countries. Repeat that's 27 other countries. We have around 66 million in our population. Those 27 countries have around 450 million. Let that sink in.

Please please please, EU, let us back in. Don't leave us in the hands of these incompetent, negligent liars.

[dsr]

We've currently got more Covid deaths in the last 24 hours than the rest of the EU countries put together. That's 27 other countries. Repeat that's 27 other countries. We have around 66 million in our population. Those 27 countries have around 450 million. Let that sink in.

Please please please, EU, let us back in. Don't leave us in the hands of these incompetent, negligent liars.

But tomorrow the figures might change and then you'll be begging to be let out again. It's a bit reckless to make lifetime policy decisions on the basis of one single day of a pandemic.

If we had counted nursing home stats like Spain have, then our death rate would be below the EU average. That's the EU average. Repeat that's the EU average. If I repeat it a few more times, will it mean more than it does?

But in a sense, you need have no fear. So far as I know, the EU hasn't closed its borders; so while you won't get your wish of the abolition of democracy in the UK, you do have the option of opting out on a personal basis.

[ksrclaret]

But tomorrow the figures might change and then you'll be begging to be let out again. It's a bit reckless to make lifetime policy decisions on the basis of one single day of a pandemic.

If we had counted nursing home stats like Spain have, then our death rate would be below the EU average. That's the EU average. Repeat that's the EU average. If I repeat it a few more times, will it mean more than it does?

But in a sense, you need have no fear. So far as I know, the EU hasn't closed its borders; so while you won't get your wish of the abolition of democracy in the UK, you do have the option of opting out on a personal basis.

Begging to be let out again. Hmmm. It surely can't be that bad when compared with our own sh1t show.

And I'll give you a whooosh for the repeat bit.

[AndrewJB]

We have queues of refugess waiting to enter the UK, we've had that for years now.
The EU also failed to deal with the migrant crisis 5 yrs ago which was made worse by Germany deciding everyone should be allowed in but with no real plan to help the EU members who are on the EU "Borders" deal with the influx that many didn't agree too.

I'm a little hazy on the finer details but haven't the ECB and the Germans had a falling out over EU financing/bailouts etc?
I'm not saying it's the same as a 3rd Reich, but the Germans shouldn't be trying to dictate to the ECB what it can and can't do.

I agree that the EU should have done better during the Syrian crisis, but it can’t be easy persuading 28 countries to act as one in the face of such a crisis when the national governments took widely different interpretations of what was needed. It might have gone better had the more progressive members clubbed together to take more effective action. But the need to act was urgent, so I find it difficult to fault the Germans for making more of an effort.

[martin_p]

The lengths some will go to in a pathetic attempt to rewrite history!

Look if, prior to the City game in March, I'd said "we'll beat city." Given its postponement Id then said "I think we could have beaten City." Apart from the tense changing, given I'd be looking back, my opinion remained the same.

That's why articles that were written after the referendum say "could". Given their relativity to the , now past referendum. It wouldnt be grammatically correct to say "would" any longer.

And both you and ThefamilyCat know that and that's what hiding behind and clinging onto.

https://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2016 ... nvestment/

Sixty per cent of the city chose to leave the EU and were criticised for doing so by many Vote Remain campaigners due to the threat Nissan could pull out of the city.

Given this was written in October 2016, "could" is used. It does not mean , however , that the people of Sunderland had not been.lead to believe that if they voted to leave the plant would shut.

The lengths I’ll stoop to eh! Fancy wanting could to mean could. Fancy wanting you to back up an assertion. Oh the humanity!

Anyway, yet again primary school level comprehension has defeated you, let’s hope the schools open again soon eh. Maybe you can ask your son/daughter to ‘school you’ on some simple English.

[TVC15]

But tomorrow the figures might change and then you'll be begging to be let out again. It's a bit reckless to make lifetime policy decisions on the basis of one single day of a pandemic.

If we had counted nursing home stats like Spain have, then our death rate would be below the EU average. That's the EU average. Repeat that's the EU average. If I repeat it a few more times, will it mean more than it does?

But in a sense, you need have no fear. So far as I know, the EU hasn't closed its borders; so while you won't get your wish of the abolition of democracy in the UK, you do have the option of opting out on a personal basis.

Enlighten us - how have Spain counted care home deaths ?Can you post the factual link evidencing this too.

In what world of the actual facts could the UK be below the EU average death rate ? Even if Spain are under reporting are you suggesting all the other EU countries are too ?

Oh and on the subject of under reporting of deaths you don’t have to look much further than the UK. Unless you think the excess death numbers for the last 3 months compared to the same period in 2019 are just pure coincidence.

[ksrclaret]

Just look at the absolute state of those in the cabinet. The lack of basic intellect and comprehension is staggering. The lack of honesty, integrity and decency is to be expected but I've never seen a PM and cabinet so painfully thick. They are an absolute bunch of muppets.

I've disagreed with many Tory government policies, and Labour ones, but never have I had such little respect for them. How did they even get to their positions? Well we know why, because they promised to be malleable enough for Cummings to allow them in. There's much better on the Tory backbenches.

Christ, give me the these EU bureaucrats over this shower of sh1t any day. At least they were competent.

[RingoMcCartney]

The lengths I’ll stoop to eh! Fancy wanting could to mean could. Fancy wanting you to back up an assertion. Oh the humanity!

Anyway, yet again primary school level comprehension has defeated you, let’s hope the schools open again soon eh. Maybe you can ask your son/daughter to ‘school you’ on some simple English.

When the tense changes from present to past the assertion remains the same but the grammar alters. But keep clinging!

Talking of clinging.

Here’s one for you.

There is a threat the Nissan plant in Sunderland could close down in the event of no, or a poor, trade deal.

And again.

Still no comment on what Nissan have said today then. It confirms the plant could close if there is no trade deal

So Marty, you're really keen to cling to the belief Nissan could close the plant if there is no trade deal in 2020.

But you wont accept Nissan threatened to do exactly the same if the country and the people of Sunderland voted Leave in 2016!

Why?

Cos it doesn't fit your history rewriting narrative!

[martin_p]

When the tense changes from present to past the assertion remains the same but the grammar alters. But keep clinging!

Talking of clinging.




And again.



So Marty, you're really keen to cling to the belief Nissan could close the plant if there is no trade deal.

But you wont accept Nissan threatened to do exactly the same if the country and the people of Sunderland voted Leave!

Why?

Cos it doesn't fit your history rewriting narrative!

You clearly haven’t read a word I’ve said. I’ve said all along that Nissan said the plant could close due to Brexit. What they didn’t say is what you’ve claimed they and the media said that the plant would close due to Brexit. The fact that you are still struggling to spot the difference between these statements frankly astounds me.

[RingoMcCartney]

You clearly haven’t read a word I’ve said. I’ve said all along that Nissan said the plant could close due to Brexit. What they didn’t say is what you’ve claimed they and the media said that the plant would close due to Brexit. The fact that you are still struggling to spot the difference between these statements frankly astounds me.

Still trying to kid yourself that theres a world of difference between "would" and "could" just like ThefamilyCat. Making reasonable discussion indistinguishable from sheer desperation!



So you more than happy to accept Nissan's current threat of closing the plant in the future if theres no trade deal!?

But you're still refusing to accept they've got previous for threatening closure in the past!?


Inconveniently for you. With the exact science , that is hindsight. The latter has been proven, to have been the Project Fear lie that you and the likes of the Family cat fell for. And the people of Sunderland were wise to ignore.

Where as with the former. Pessimism mongers and Project Fear Part 2 disciples like you. Are just only too happy to repeat the same mantra, hoping for a different outcome this time.

And we all know what doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, is the definition of, dont we Marty!?

Sleep well.

[aggi]

Here you go Ringo, a chance for you to learn something:

Could and would are related, but they mean different things. Could expresses possibility, while would expresses certainty and intent.

https://writingexplained.org/could-vs-would-difference

[dsr]

Enlighten us - how have Spain counted care home deaths ?Can you post the factual link evidencing this too.

In what world of the actual facts could the UK be below the EU average death rate ? Even if Spain are under reporting are you suggesting all the other EU countries are too ?

Oh and on the subject of under reporting of deaths you don’t have to look much further than the UK. Unless you think the excess death numbers for the last 3 months compared to the same period in 2019 are just pure coincidence.

Spain have only counted officially tested coronavirus deaths and a lot of care home deaths were not tested even when coronavirus was suspected.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... ath-tolls/

And read what I said more closely. I said that if the UK had counted the same way as Spain we would be below the average death rate. You read it the wrong way round, as if I had said that if Spain counted the same as the UK we would be below the EU average death rate. Read it again.

No, I don't think the excess deaths in the UK are pure coincidence. Most of the excess deaths are due to coronavirus. Up to week end 22nd May this year, the total deaths is 286,779, the expected (5 year average) is 235,293, the difference is 51,486. The official coronavirus death tally, 43,694. So that's 7,792 "unexplained" excess deaths. Some of which may be coronavirus, but then again some of the official coronavirus deaths may be wrongly diagnosed. Some of the excess deaths may be due to lockdown - it's very easy to see that an old person living a pretty miserable life in a nursing home might just give up wanting to live when his/her family stop coming to visit. And of course there is random variation - in the last 4 months of last year, for example, deaths were higher than average by 6,357. No coronavirus factor there, just normal random variation.

[AndrewJB]

Still trying to kid yourself that theres a world of difference between "would" and "could" just like ThefamilyCat. Making reasonable discussion indistinguishable from sheer desperation!



So you more than happy to accept Nissan's current threat of closing the plant in the future if theres no trade deal!?

But you're still refusing to accept they've got previous for threatening closure in the past!?


Inconveniently for you. With the exact science , that is hindsight. The latter has been proven, to have been the Project Fear lie that you and the likes of the Family cat fell for. And the people of Sunderland were wise to ignore.

Where as with the former. Pessimism mongers and Project Fear Part 2 disciples like you. Are just only too happy to repeat the same mantra, hoping for a different outcome this time.

And we all know what doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, is the definition of, dont we Marty!?

Sleep well.

From what you’re posting, it looks as though you’re basing Brexit success on Nissan remaining in Sunderland. Or in other words, the same as if we hadn’t left. What steps forward can you give us?

[TheFamilyCat]

Jesus, can someone please give Ringo a dictionary.

Someone teach him to read first.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I agree that the EU should have done better during the Syrian crisis, but it can’t be easy persuading 28 countries to act as one in the face of such a crisis when the national governments took widely different interpretations of what was needed. It might have gone better had the more progressive members clubbed together to take more effective action. But the need to act was urgent, so I find it difficult to fault the Germans for making more of an effort.

The need to act was urgent and therein lies one of the problems with the EU, it can't act urgently.
It's large and unwieldy, takes what seems like forever to agree to most things.
5 years down the line and they still haven't come to an agreed way to deal with large numbers of migrants.

Germanys open doors policy didn't go down well with everyone there and they've had problems within the country since then.

[TheFamilyCat]

Clearly attempting to argue there was a difference between ",could" and "would"

Christ, now I remember why I don't teach anymore.

I'm not arguing anything. I am pointing out a fact that they are two different words that mean different things. Aggi provided a link to explain further.

When the tense changes from present to past the assertion remains the same but the grammar alters.

I can give you a B+ for perseverance but sadly an E- for achievement.

"Could" and "would" are not and never will be different tense of each other.

I'll give you an example; writing about what may happen in the future. Firstly with certainty about the future:

Ringo will respond to this as he can't bring himself to admit that he made something up and in doing so will dig himself further into a hole

Secondly, something that may happen:

Ringo could read this, understand it, realise that he cannot disprove that he made it up. But probably won't.

I'll give you past tense based on your responses.

It's actually been easier trying to home-school my 3-year old these past three months than it has to penetrate Ringo's thick skull.

[RingoMcCartney]

Christ, now I remember why I don't teach anymore.

I'm not arguing anything. I am pointing out a fact that they are two different words that mean different things. Aggi provided a link to explain further.



I can give you a B+ for perseverance but sadly an E- for achievement.

"Could" and "would" are not and never will be different tense of each other.

I'll give you an example; writing about what may happen in the future. Firstly with certainty about the future:

Ringo will respond to this as he can't bring himself to admit that he made something up and in doing so will dig himself further into a hole

Secondly, something that may happen:

Ringo could read this, understand it, realise that he cannot disprove that he made it up. But probably won't.

I'll give you past tense based on your responses.

It's actually been easier trying to home-school my 3-year old these past three months than it has to penetrate Ringo's thick skull.

Waffle ignored for brevity.

I’ve said all along that Nissan said the plant could close due to Brexit.

Do you agree with Marty that the Nissan plant was threatened with closure?

[Tall Paul]

Waffle ignored for brevity.

[Swizzlestick]

Waffle ignored for brevity

Quit while you’re behind. You messed up, it’s fine, go fo a walk.

[RingoMcCartney]

Here you go Ringo, a chance for you to learn something:

Could and would are related, but they mean different things. Could expresses possibility, while would expresses certainty and intent.

https://writingexplained.org/could-vs-would-difference

Question - how do you get a flock of resentment fuelled sore losers to obsess about the word "could" ?

Answer - by letting them convince themselves that if they do, the Project Fear lies , about the closure of a car plant , that the gullible schmucks fell for, never actually happened !!

[TheFamilyCat]

The lengths some will go to in a pathetic attempt to rewrite history!

Look if, prior to the City game in March, I'd said "we'll beat city." Given its postponement Id then said "I think we could have beaten City." Apart from the tense changing, given I'd be looking back, my opinion remained the same.

That's why articles that were written after the referendum say "could". Given their relativity to the , now past referendum. It wouldnt be grammatically correct to say "would" any longer.

Hahahaha. I missed this little nugget.

No, no, no, no, no. Your example provides two different opinions before and after the event: Prior to the event "we'll (or we will)" and "we could have". If the opinon remained the same, the second example is "we would have".

Two different words. Two different meanings. Nothing to do with tense.

And if your defection from the Brexit Party is anything to go by, you'll start supporting City if we are losing at half time. Glory hunter.

[TheFamilyCat]

Waffle ignored for brevity.



Do you agree with Marty that the Nissan plant was threatened with closure?

It was predicetd that Ringo would respond to but would fail to admit that he made something up.

[nil_desperandum]

I don't often post on threads like this, but couldn't resist relating something that happened to me at school.
(It may help Ringo understand)
I attended a Grammar school and had the dubious privilege of been taught English by the Headmaster, who was old-school. I remember one day being pretty nervous about asking to go to the toilet. Eventually with things getting a bit desperate, I finally raised my hand and said,
"Please Sir, "can" I go to the toilet?"
Much to my surprise and relief he immediately said "Yes, of course."
As I got up to leave the room, he immediately instructed me to sit down, gave me a pretty humiliating lecture on grammar, and put me in detention to learn the difference. No one ever made that mistake again.
Having said that, he then said. "Now, would you like to rephrase the question and ask me again?", - permission was granted.