Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[Colburn_Claret]

I find it hard to agree with you, Colburn, as you seem to be suggesting that poverty, hunger and real life deprivation are a minor problem in Britain and that in most cases where it does exist it is the fault of those people themselves.

But it is simply not true. Universal credit left people with nothing to buy food with for six weeks. The physically disabled, those with chronic illnesses, people with low income often on zero hours contracts, women with children who have been abused or abandoned by partners, the elderly needing social care have all suffered as a direct result of the government response to the financial crisis of 2008. The policy of cutting the public services on which such people depend rather than raising taxes caused a huge amount of suffering, deprivation and hunger. It is indefensible.

And on food banks, despite your dubious anecdotal evidence, you are quite wrong. A proper, scientific study of food bank use showed that 93% of users did so because of real need. I thought that had put that argument to rest. Over a million people have had to use food banks to avoid going hungry and that is a national disgrace. The discredited argument that people use food banks when they don't need to was never seriously believed, it was just bandied about by people who wanted to deflect away from the real issue of poverty in Britain and government policies that caused poverty.

As for your point about Ethiopia etc, you probably wish you hadn't posted that now. It seems to suggest that we needn't be too bothered about poverty until people start to die from starvation.

I'd accept that the disabled and the chronically ill need proper care, as do certain other social groups. I just think anyone who is able bodied should be working, and if they were there would be a lot more money in the kitty for those in genuine need. Which comes first the chicken or the egg.
Single mothers is harder. I know some single mothers who do a great job, I also know others who aren't fit to be a parent. But even if the father isn't at home, making them pay, and making them get a job so that they can pay is a no brainer.
I've long said child benefit needs capping at 2 kids, I heard that this was under consideration, but dont know if its in the pipeline yet.
For a very large number of people the biggest holdback for getting a job, is benefits are just too damned good, and too easy. If you could break this cycle we could get a benefit system fit for purpose that would keep everyone happy.

[Colburn_Claret]

So - a bit like racism - you choose to believe that poverty doesn’t exist in this country despite the evidence to the contrary, because you don’t want it to. That’s the fallacy of adverse consequences again.

That approach might make you feel better about yourself for being a Tory with a complete lack of empathy for the poor, but it won’t give you an accurate view on the state of the country.

No, I believe poverty doesn't exist because I live in a community of people on benefits, and none of them are in poverty, none of them. I've already explained that the way poverty is measured is ridiculous. Another few millionaires on the Euro millions and I might be living in poverty , shock horror.
I was on the dole for 18 months under Thatcher, and the only pair of shoes I owned had a bloody great hole in the sole. We grew up on jumble sales and hand me down clothes. I was lucky because my parents worked their socks off to provide for us, but the number of arguments we had to endure about lack of money. Despite all that we were raised to take care of ourselves and look after others. I'm more than happy to help those down on their luck and in genuine need, but you'll have to forgive me if I don't fall over crying at some prick who thinks playing on the x box, or feeding their kids on junk food, is more important than good parenting.

[aggi]

I do enjoy Colburn's view of "if I'm not experiencing it it's not happening and I am very much the person best placed to judge what is happening".

[dsr]

Under this stupid system you could give the top 10% of earners in this country, a 10% pay cut, and suddenly millions of people no longer live in poverty. Bread and milk still cost the same, you haven't given them a single penny more, but they are no longer living in poverty.

As has been pointed out, it's the median income. If you want to reduce poverty it's the middle earners who you need to tax more, not the rich. If you double income tax, even if it's used purely to repay the national debt and none of it goes in social security, you will dramatically reduce poverty by (I agree) stupid definition they have now.

[AndrewJB]

I'd accept that the disabled and the chronically ill need proper care, as do certain other social groups. I just think anyone who is able bodied should be working, and if they were there would be a lot more money in the kitty for those in genuine need. Which comes first the chicken or the egg.
Single mothers is harder. I know some single mothers who do a great job, I also know others who aren't fit to be a parent. But even if the father isn't at home, making them pay, and making them get a job so that they can pay is a no brainer.
I've long said child benefit needs capping at 2 kids, I heard that this was under consideration, but dont know if its in the pipeline yet.
For a very large number of people the biggest holdback for getting a job, is benefits are just too damned good, and too easy. If you could break this cycle we could get a benefit system fit for purpose that would keep everyone happy.

Benefits are already capped at 2 children, because we all know the third child doesn’t need to eat, stay warm, or have a place to sleep. If we are going to be entirely fair about this, then no NHS resources should be set aside for this child, and neither the police nor fire service should be at their disposal. That it’s only public money spent as benefits illustrates how the government loaded austerity on the poor.

[Colburn_Claret]

I do enjoy Colburn's view of "if I'm not experiencing it it's not happening and I am very much the person best placed to judge what is happening".

Maybe you should tip off all these poor unfortunates to move to N.Yorkshire, we seem to have it sussed here.
Or maybe they'd just drag the same excuses with them.

Have you got any figures for these poor people I cant see. It would be helpful to know how little they are living on, and where the money they receive goes to. If I'm wrong I'm happy to be educated, I keep telling you all that there are two sides to everything, so help me understand.

[RingoMcCartney]

https://www.politicshome.com/news/artic ... -in-school

No10 confirms race commission will also examine why working-class white boys are behind in school

Mystic McCartney strikes yet again!

[RingoMcCartney]

I do enjoy Colburn's view of "if I'm not experiencing it it's not happening and I am very much the person best placed to judge what is happening".

It's strikingly similar to yours when it comes white working class boys attainment levels being the lowest of all groups for decades!

[CombatClaret]

Setting up the Race Commission, the author of these:

Mizra.jpg (315.56 KiB) Viewed 4356 times

[nil_desperandum]

https://www.politicshome.com/news/artic ... -in-school

No10 confirms race commission will also examine why working-class white boys are behind in school

Mystic McCartney strikes yet again!

Well done. You've predicted something that has been identified and investigated for at least the last two decades. i.e. yet another "think tank"/ commission / report looking into why white working class boys continue to fail.
A simple google search reveals pages and pages of reports, articles, dissertations etc that have been undertaken over the past few decades on this very topic.
Of course, I 100% agree that the commission should look into this, (and we already know what the commission will find) but as in the past the important question is: will any action be taken to address this. Sadly, I very much doubt it.
Hopefully you agree that it is action to address this problem that is required, (not just words) and yet another report will do nothing unless it comes up with an effective "Action Plan" that is resourced and enacted.

[Erasmus]

There is a problem as many people can't work and many of those who do are on limited hours contracts which means that their income is so low that they can barely survive. As for the idea that benefits are too good, that is just not true. It is more the case that for many people wages are too low. particularly where limited-hours contracts are accepted. And again I see that nobody is denying that the government's policy of making the poorest people pay for the 2008 crisis was right or fair, or that the six weeks delay in Universal Credit was anything but heartless and immoral.

[martin_p]

Well done. You've predicted something that has been identified and investigated for at least the last two decades. i.e. yet another "think tank"/ commission / report looking into why white working class boys continue to fail.
A simple google search reveals pages and pages of reports, articles, dissertations etc that have been undertaken over the past few decades on this very topic.
Of course, I 100% agree that the commission should look into this, (and we already know what the commission will find) but as in the past the important question is: will any action be taken to address this. Sadly, I very much doubt it.
Hopefully you agree that it is action to address this problem that is required, (not just words) and yet another report will do nothing unless it comes up with an effective "Action Plan" that is resourced and enacted.

Wrongo will hate this, but previous studies have found Lambeth have had a successful strategy raising the attainment levels of this group. Maybe the government needs to ask them what they are doing right.

[AndrewJB]

This government is only there to look after the richest 1%. Every action they take will be in line with that, and perpetuating their hold on power.

[Vino blanco]

Keep that red flag flying high, Andrew.

[claretandy]

Setting up the Race Commission, the author of these:

Mizra.jpg

Wrong type of brown person, like Priti Patel, she doesn't know her place.

[RingoMcCartney]

Wrongo will hate this, but previous studies have found Lambeth have had a successful strategy raising the attainment levels of this group. Maybe the government needs to ask them what they are doing right.

Marty hates the fact that the injustice of institutional racism and misandry faced by white working class boys. Which leads to their attainment being the lowest of all groups. Goes back far beyond this government's tenure which only began in December 2019. In fact reports going back decades show that previous governments did nowt. That, inconveniently for Marty includes Labour governments.

What Marty and aggi, unhingededdiebeth and the rest really detest, however, is that once again, the very thing I was highlighting only a matter of days ago , is now government policy!

Where I tread others follow.

Mystic McCartney- ahead of the curve since 2016

[RingoMcCartney]

Well done. You've predicted something that has been identified and investigated for at least the last two decades. i.e. yet another "think tank"/ commission / report looking into why white working class boys continue to fail.
A simple google search reveals pages and pages of reports, articles, dissertations etc that have been undertaken over the past few decades on this very topic.
Of course, I 100% agree that the commission should look into this, (and we already know what the commission will find) but as in the past the important question is: will any action be taken to address this. Sadly, I very much doubt it.
Hopefully you agree that it is action to address this problem that is required, (not just words) and yet another report will do nothing unless it comes up with an effective "Action Plan" that is resourced and enacted.

See above

[AndrewJB]

Keep that red flag flying high, Andrew.

Keep tugging your forelock and begging for more austerity, Vino.

[martin_p]

Marty hates the fact that the injustice of institutional racism and misandry faced by white working class boys. Which leads to their attainment being the lowest of all groups. Goes back far beyond this government's tenure which only began in December 2019. In fact reports going back decades show that previous governments did nowt. That, inconveniently for Marty includes Labour governments.

What Marty and aggi, unhingededdiebeth and the rest really detest, however, is that once again, the very thing I was highlighting only a matter of days ago , is now government policy!

Where I tread others follow.

Mystic McCartney- ahead of the curve since 2016

None of those previous reports find ‘institutional racism’ though do they.

[RingoMcCartney]

Wrong type of brown person, like Priti Patel, she doesn't know her place.

The BBC has sparked a fresh ‘bias’ row after it emerged the former executive hired to review its impartiality on social media has himself been partisan online.!

Richard Sambrook, former director of global news at the BBC, has been brought in to take an ‘internal look’ at the way journalists use their social media accounts amid concerns they might be breaching its impartiality rules by sharing their political views.

So, who is this Richard Sambrook chap they’ve brought in to assess how the BBC should manage left-wing bias on social media? A former Tory MP? An ex-editor of the Telegraph or the Mail? Someone from a right wing thinktank? Or maybe even someone who had worked for another broadcaster, either in the UK or overseas? Of course not. Richard Sambrook is the ‘director of journalism’ at Cardiff University (the academy is, of course, famously a bastion of right-of-centre thinking) who, before he held that role – wait for it – worked for the BBC. And he was astonishingly well paid for doing so, raking in around £300k a year when he was their director of global news in 2009.

Sambrook has not exactly been shy and retiring in expounding his opinion on the issues of Brexit and the government on social media. He has variously described Brexit as “utterly, utterly stupid” and “like a Premier League side wanting to be relegated.” Sambrook has also tweeted that he is “strongly remain,” and has suggested that Brexit wasn’t the will of the British people, as turnout in the referendum was “only 72%.” When not banging on about the EU he has also held forth on Boris Johnson, whom he has described as a “liar,” a “man of zero integrity” and a “post-truth politician.”.


The BBC has proven it is chronically incapable of being unbiased. At every level and in every department, it is staffed by bien-pensant metropolitan liberals at best, and outright Marxists at worse. ‘Newsnight’ has been the best example of this of late; ignoring Emily Maitlis and her continued tirades against wrong-thinking people, current and previous staff include former Labour Party activist Lewis Goodall, professional communist lunatic Paul Mason, failed Change UK MEP candidate Gavin Esler, former Guardian Deputy Editor Ian Katz, and former Guardian Chief Political Reporter Nicholas Watt

[RingoMcCartney]

None of those previous reports find ‘institutional racism’ though do they.

If you're not looking for it you wont find it.

“I think it’s because as we’ve tried to deal with some of the issues around race and women’s agendas, around tackling some of the discrimination that’s there, it has actually had a negative impact on the food chain for white, working [class] boys."
 Angela Rayner Labour MP

Consequently, if the focus has been on girls and the BAME pupils, who does that leave. For decades? Answer- white working class boys. If the forcus is in on everyone else based on their skin colour, and their gender. The discrimination you face is both racial and misandry.

I get it Marty, you will, never in a million years agree. But admit it Marty you hate the idea I was talking about it, and lo and behold it's part of the race commissions investigation. Gutted. Again!

[martin_p]

The BBC has sparked a fresh ‘bias’ row after it emerged the former executive hired to review its impartiality on social media has himself been partisan online.!

Richard Sambrook, former director of global news at the BBC, has been brought in to take an ‘internal look’ at the way journalists use their social media accounts amid concerns they might be breaching its impartiality rules by sharing their political views.

So, who is this Richard Sambrook chap they’ve brought in to assess how the BBC should manage left-wing bias on social media? A former Tory MP? An ex-editor of the Telegraph or the Mail? Someone from a right wing thinktank? Or maybe even someone who had worked for another broadcaster, either in the UK or overseas? Of course not. Richard Sambrook is the ‘director of journalism’ at Cardiff University (the academy is, of course, famously a bastion of right-of-centre thinking) who, before he held that role – wait for it – worked for the BBC. And he was astonishingly well paid for doing so, raking in around £300k a year when he was their director of global news in 2009.

Sambrook has not exactly been shy and retiring in expounding his opinion on the issues of Brexit and the government on social media. He has variously described Brexit as “utterly, utterly stupid” and “like a Premier League side wanting to be relegated.” Sambrook has also tweeted that he is “strongly remain,” and has suggested that Brexit wasn’t the will of the British people, as turnout in the referendum was “only 72%.” When not banging on about the EU he has also held forth on Boris Johnson, whom he has described as a “liar,” a “man of zero integrity” and a “post-truth politician.”.


The BBC has proven it is chronically incapable of being unbiased. At every level and in every department, it is staffed by bien-pensant metropolitan liberals at best, and outright Marxists at worse. ‘Newsnight’ has been the best example of this of late; ignoring Emily Maitlis and her continued tirades against wrong-thinking people, current and previous staff include former Labour Party activist Lewis Goodall, professional communist lunatic Paul Mason, failed Change UK MEP candidate Gavin Esler, former Guardian Deputy Editor Ian Katz, and former Guardian Chief Political Reporter Nicholas Watt

Of course you’re going to follow that list up with all the Tories/right wingers the BBC has employed aren’t you? Otherwise it just looks like bias.

[martin_p]

If you're not looking for it you wont find it.

“I think it’s because as we’ve tried to deal with some of the issues around race and women’s agendas, around tackling some of the discrimination that’s there, it has actually had a negative impact on the food chain for white, working [class] boys."
 Angela Rayner Labour MP

Consequently, if the focus has been on girls and the BAME pupils, who does that leave. For decades? Answer- white working class boys. If the forcus is in on everyone else based on their skin colour, and their gender. The discrimination you face is both racial and misandry.

I get it Marty, you will, never in a million years agree. But admit it Marty you hate the idea I was talking about it, and lo and behold it's part of the race commissions investigation. Gutted. Again!

So presumably you’d support Lambeth Council’s strategy being adopted nationwide?

[aggi]

...

The BBC has proven it is chronically incapable of being unbiased. At every level and in every department, it is staffed by bien-pensant metropolitan liberals at best, and outright Marxists at worse. ‘Newsnight’ has been the best example of this of late; ignoring Emily Maitlis and her continued tirades against wrong-thinking people, current and previous staff include former Labour Party activist Lewis Goodall, professional communist lunatic Paul Mason, failed Change UK MEP candidate Gavin Esler, former Guardian Deputy Editor Ian Katz, and former Guardian Chief Political Reporter Nicholas Watt

I like the way Ringo tries to add weight to his arguments by passing off op-eds from Russia Today as his own work

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/491914-bbc-bia ... beral-cnn/

[aggi]

Maybe you should tip off all these poor unfortunates to move to N.Yorkshire, we seem to have it sussed here.
Or maybe they'd just drag the same excuses with them.

Have you got any figures for these poor people I cant see. It would be helpful to know how little they are living on, and where the money they receive goes to. If I'm wrong I'm happy to be educated, I keep telling you all that there are two sides to everything, so help me understand.

Really, maybe you should tell the people of North Yorkshire
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hu ... ng-1115644

[Devils_Advocate]

I like the way Ringo tries to add weight to his arguments by passing off op-eds from Russia Today as his own work

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/491914-bbc-bia ... beral-cnn/

Type in a lot of his rants into google and it takes you to some loony right wing site where he's copied it from. Makes you wonder if he actually reads these websites and believes the tripe they come out with or whether he just looks at them for material to use on here to wind people up and argue.

I hope its the latter and its all just a big game cos if he does actually believes what he writes then he's a pretty sad case

[dsr]

Really, maybe you should tell the people of North Yorkshire
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hu ... ng-1115644

Are they saying that 40% of children in Hull are short of food, can't afford clothes even from the cheap rails at Asda, and are living in homes with no heat? And have no internet, no mobile phone apart from a pay-as-you-go for emergencies, and never go on holiday?

Or if not, what conditions are they living in? What, in actual terms of possessions and lifestyle, is poverty? None of this "he's got more than me so I am poor" - what possessions and lifestyle can you have and still qualify as "poor"?

[martin_p]

Are they saying that 40% of children in Hull are short of food, can't afford clothes even from the cheap rails at Asda, and are living in homes with no heat? And have no internet, no mobile phone apart from a pay-as-you-go for emergencies, and never go on holiday?

Or if not, what conditions are they living in? What, in actual terms of possessions and lifestyle, is poverty? None of this "he's got more than me so I am poor" - what possessions and lifestyle can you have and still qualify as "poor"?

Given you referenced the definition of poverty earlier in this thread you’ll know the answer.

[Devils_Advocate]

Are they saying that 40% of children in Hull are short of food, can't afford clothes even from the cheap rails at Asda, and are living in homes with no heat? And have no internet, no mobile phone apart from a pay-as-you-go for emergencies, and never go on holiday?

Or if not, what conditions are they living in? What, in actual terms of possessions and lifestyle, is poverty? None of this "he's got more than me so I am poor" - what possessions and lifestyle can you have and still qualify as "poor"?

Just have a look back of some of your posts on the lockdown and its impact on things like mental health and suicide and stuff like that. Then have a think about the difference in todays world of what would be classed as living and what would be classed as merely surviving.

Think how adults and children living with no tv, no mobiles, no holidays, no money to go places, no car to get there etc etc would be impacted by mental health issues and whether a life of sitting at home staring at the walls eating the most basic of food is any kind of life at all in todays world

I don't hold much hope for you managing to equate the two and im not going to argue but seriously away from this messageboard just think about it.

For everyone else I know this is the US but for those on here thinking all these people in poverty are scroungers and have all the mod cons I think this is a really good video which shows how maybe some peoples views and the real world are two entirely different things. People all over the UK will be facing difficult situations like this whilst most of us live in comfort and relative luxury

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WLuuCM6Ej0

[dsr]

Just have a look back of some of your posts on the lockdown and its impact on things like mental health and suicide and stuff like that. Then have a think about the difference in todays world of what would be classed as living and what would be classed as merely surviving.

Think how adults and children living with no tv, no mobiles, no holidays, no money to go places, no car to get there etc etc would be impacted by mental health issues and whether a life of sitting at home staring at the walls eating the most basic of food is any kind of life at all in todays world

I don't hold much hope for you managing to equate the two and im not going to argue but seriously away from this messageboard just think about it.

For everyone else I know this is the US but for those on here thinking all these people in poverty are scroungers and have all the mod cons I think this is a really good video which shows how maybe some peoples views and the real world are two entirely different things. People all over the UK will be facing difficult situations like this whilst most of us live in comfort and relative luxury

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WLuuCM6Ej0

I asked a question. I didn't equate anything. You're reading a whole lot into a question about what poverty looks like.

I think your last paragraph is perhaps why you and I can't see anything eye-to-eye. The quote about "thinking all these people in poverty are scroungers". No-one, so far as I know, has ever suggested that all these people in poverty are scroungers; what has been suggested is that some of these people living in alleged poverty aren't actually all that poor after all. But, rahter like anyone expressing doubts about the Black Lives Matter campaign, anyone expressing doubts about any aspect of the official, PC view, is regarded as being opposed to everytihng the official, PC line comes out with.

What exactly do you mean by "most basic of food"? Bear in mind that you can cook a roast chicken dinner for four for £5, how basic do you think their food must be?

[Devils_Advocate]

I asked a question. I didn't equate anything. You're reading a whole lot into a question about what poverty looks like.

I think your last paragraph is perhaps why you and I can't see anything eye-to-eye. The quote about "thinking all these people in poverty are scroungers". No-one, so far as I know, has ever suggested that all these people in poverty are scroungers; what has been suggested is that some of these people living in alleged poverty aren't actually all that poor after all. But, rahter like anyone expressing doubts about the Black Lives Matter campaign, anyone expressing doubts about any aspect of the official, PC view, is regarded as being opposed to everytihng the official, PC line comes out with.

What exactly do you mean by "most basic of food"? Bear in mind that you can cook a roast chicken dinner for four for £5, how basic do you think their food must be?

Just to clarify the last paragraph wasn't aimed at you and I did try and make that clear.

As I said stop worrying about meaningless words like political correctness and think about the empathy and concern you had with people having to stay in doors for several months compared to the empathy and concern you show for people who face much worse hardships every day of their lives due to poverty and deprivation.

[dsr]

Just to clarify the last paragraph wasn't aimed at you and I did try and make that clear.

As I said stop worrying about meaningless words like political correctness and think about the empathy and concern you had with people having to stay in doors for several months compared to the empathy and concern you show for people who face much worse hardships every day of their lives due to poverty and deprivation.

We are continually being asked to show empathy and concern for people living in grinding poverty who IMO are not grindingly poor. When will they come up with a sensible number for people who are actually poor, as opposed to people who just have a bit less than the people next door?

https://www.marysmeals.org.uk/?gclid=Cj ... CYQAvD_BwE

[Colburn_Claret]

Really, maybe you should tell the people of North Yorkshire
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hu ... ng-1115644

You don't like listening do you.
The way we calculate poverty is a load of ********. I've already explained why. If you want to keep posting rubbish like that, first explain to me what living in poverty is.

[aggi]

You don't like listening do you.
The way we calculate poverty is a load of ********. I've already explained why. If you want to keep posting rubbish like that, first explain to me what living in poverty is.

I guess that's where we're differing in that you want to define poverty as something along the lines of risk of death without intervention (maybe not exactly that but it reads as if you want there to be severe deprivation to be classed as in poverty, feel free to give your own definition as to how deprived a child would have to be to be classed as in poverty) whereas I'd say that as a civilised, first-world country we shouldn't be letting such a large tranche of people, and in particular children, get so far behind the average (and the associated long term costs that come out of such an issue).

I find comments like "people have never had it so good" a bit weird as if people should be grateful for an inside toilet or access to the internet. Things like a computer and the internet aren't luxuries nowadays, they're essentials for life.

Your comment on foodbanks Posters on this board, who've worked in food banks, say they are open to abuse all the time. People who have no real need for them, using them to save cash for other things. was pretty much the opposite of what happened. Posters who didn't work in foodbanks said they were open to abuse and then those who did actually have first hand experience explained how they were generally referred by schools, DWP, etc, there were limitations on what could be obtained and the rest of it.

[dsr]

I find comments like "people have never had it so good" a bit weird as if people should be grateful for an inside toilet or access to the internet. Things like a computer and the internet aren't luxuries nowadays, they're essentials for life.

In that case, why don't we let families buy their own food and have computer collections at Turf Moor? That way the only need to turn up for their essentials every three or four years (assuming that this year's model isn't an essential for life) rather than every week.

We will have to disagree. Internet access is not an "essential for life".

[martin_p]

You don't like listening do you.
The way we calculate poverty is a load of ********. I've already explained why. If you want to keep posting rubbish like that, first explain to me what living in poverty is.

You’ve already explained how you don’t understand how they calculate poverty, twice!

[randomclaret2]

Hull in North Yorkshire ?

[aggi]

In that case, why don't we let families buy their own food and have computer collections at Turf Moor? That way the only need to turn up for their essentials every three or four years (assuming that this year's model isn't an essential for life) rather than every week.

We will have to disagree. Internet access is not an "essential for life".

Well there are plenty of charities that already do that.

It isn't essential for maintaining life (I'm not sure if that's what you're suggesting) but it is essential for living in the modern world. Think of all of the things that the internet is pretty much required for, finding jobs, school work, information on health, benefits, taxes, etc, making the most of your money in terms of bills (and paying bills), etc

[aggi]

Anyway, this divergence into poverty came as I was looking for half a dozen illustrations on what red tape was going to be cut so that the EU would be frightened to death of the UK. Does anyone have any?

[nil_desperandum]

We will have to disagree. Internet access is not an "essential for life".

Technically that's correct, but if there's one thing that this epidemic has taught us is that it's now almost impossible to live without at least limited internet access.
From personal experience I've had to take over a large proportion of my father's affairs simply because the only way that you have been able to make contact with a lot of companies, and make transactions has been online.
More pertinent to your point however. My daughter is a teacher. She has been starting her day by 7a.m. planning all her work, and sending it out (via the internet) to her various classes by breakfast time in the hope that students will complete it and email it back by lunchtime. (This is what has generally been happening).
So this illustrates really clearly how the internet has become virtually an indispensable part of life and how students with poor or no internet access are severely disadvantaged. In normal times of course these children are encouraged to do homework at after school clubs or in the library, but not even that is available to them at present.
I could make a strong case that internet access is far more important than many other things that most of us take for granted such as TV and having a car.

[RingoMcCartney]

I like the way Ringo tries to add weight to his arguments by passing off op-eds from Russia Today as his own work

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/491914-bbc-bia ... beral-cnn/

Same old tired old pointless distractions about the lack of quotation marks! And BTW Sherlock, the first paragraphs from the Mail. Anyway appointing one of their own bias lefties to mark their own own homework!

No wonder trust in MSM has sunk to record levels.

Anyway great news about the government taking on the plight of white working class boys eh Aggi!? And so soon after I'd highlighted it!

R. M. one step ahead as per!

[evensteadiereddie]

You been in touch with your lad's school to see exactly to what extent the racist and gender discrimination is yet ?

No ?

So you've no details or proof to share with us of this phenomenon ?

The Commission will examine all aspects of racial discrimination in our society, including as you'd expect, our educational system.
All poor performers will be quite rightly looked at to see if, if, if discrimination is responsible for that, underachieving white boys included but not exclusively so.

Rungo, you actually believe that because you claimed that rampant racial and gender discrimination is rife in all our schools meant the government have set up a commission especially to look at it ?

I think your ejaculation is somewhat premature. I suspect the commission will, in fact, show that, as we've seen previously, you're talking crap but we shall see but do let us know how you get on at your kid's school, eh ? If the problem does exist as much as you say it does, for instances would be useful.

Download the relevant bits of the curriculum and let's have a look.

Why wait a year for a commission to confirm/disprove your latest theory ?

I'm sure, you'll agree - being a loving, supportive father - that time is of the essence here and your son cannot be allowed to fall behind even further.

Get in there and do your job !

[jrgbfc]

In that case, why don't we let families buy their own food and have computer collections at Turf Moor? That way the only need to turn up for their essentials every three or four years (assuming that this year's model isn't an essential for life) rather than every week.

We will have to disagree. Internet access is not an "essential for life".

I'd say it would be virtually impossible to find and apply for a job these days without access to the internet or a computer.

[martin_p]

You been in touch with your lad's school to see exactly to what extent the racist and gender discrimination is yet ?

No ?

So you've no details or proof to share with us of this phenomenon ?

The Commission will examine all aspects of racial discrimination in our society, including as you'd expect, our educational system.
All poor performers will be quite rightly looked at to see if, if, if discrimination is responsible for that, underachieving white boys included but not exclusively so.

Rungo, you actually believe that because you claimed that rampant racial and gender discrimination is rife in all our schools meant the government have set up a commission especially to look at it ?

I think your ejaculation is somewhat premature. I suspect the commission will, in fact, show that, as we've seen previously, you're talking crap but we shall see but do let us know how you get on at your kid's school, eh ? If the problem does exist as much as you say it does, for instances would be useful.

Download the relevant bits of the curriculum and let's have a look.

Why wait a year for a commission to confirm/disprove your latest theory ?

I'm sure, you'll agree - being a loving, supportive father - that time is of the essence here and your son cannot be allowed to fall behind even further.

Get in there and do your job !

Lambeth Council have made massive strides with the attainment levels of white working class boys. I’ve mentioned it to Wrongo twice but he doesn’t want to engage on the point for some reason. If he’s that bothered about it perhaps he can point his child’s school in that direction.

[evensteadiereddie]

It's a pity because, for once, he did actually raise a meaningful point about a vital issue. The point could have been discussed in much detail if the bloke actually cared enough about the alleged problems of racism and sexism, so entrenched in our school system apparently, and their alleged effect on his lad and all the other poor white lads. I wonder why he doesn't really care enough to do something?

As we all agree, surely, parental support is especially vital for the strugglers in our school. Being behind is one thing but not having the backing of a parent is disgraceful.

A simple phone or video call, an email, with or to the lad's school would suffice but, no, it's much easier to go on a football message board, make silly personal attacks against folk asking for evidence of his claim and, even sillier, pretend to assume the mantle of unpaid government advisor.

Let's hope he does his parental duty today.

The Commission haven't even been appointed never mind met, investigated, assessed or published. Their findings will not appear for ages..............now's the time to act, fella !

Let us know how you get on

[RingoMcCartney]

You been in touch with your lad's school to see exactly to what extent the racist and gender discrimination is yet ?

No ?

So you've no details or proof to share with us of this phenomenon ?

The Commission will examine all aspects of racial discrimination in our society, including as you'd expect, our educational system.
All poor performers will be quite rightly looked at to see if, if, if discrimination is responsible for that, underachieving white boys included but not exclusively so.

Rungo, you actually believe that because you claimed that rampant racial and gender discrimination is rife in all our schools meant the government have set up a commission especially to look at it ?

I think your ejaculation is somewhat premature. I suspect the commission will, in fact, show that, as we've seen previously, you're talking crap but we shall see but do let us know how you get on at your kid's school, eh ? If the problem does exist as much as you say it does, for instances would be useful.

Download the relevant bits of the curriculum and let's have a look.

Why wait a year for a commission to confirm/disprove your latest theory ?

I'm sure, you'll agree - being a loving, supportive father - that time is of the essence here and your son cannot be allowed to fall behind even further.

Get in there and do your job !

Still trying to press the same highly personal groundless accusations you sad, sad , attention craving man!



Each time you go lower, I'll simply go higher.

Youre clearly full of even more twisted curmudgeonly bitterness. Cos of this.

Mystic McCartneys crystal ball was on form last week.



Thursday 11th /Friday 12th / Saturday 13th June - Ringo highlights the institutional racism and misandry faced by white working class boys, whose attainment levels are the lowest of all groups, fordeaceds

Tuesday 16th June - No10 confirms race commission will also examine why working-class white boys are behind in school. Unbelievably prophetic.

Here's a thought. For years, white working class boys attainment levels would have been better, had crap teachers actually done their jobs!

[martin_p]

Still trying to press the same highly personal groundless accusations you sad, sad , attention craving man!



Each time you go lower, I'll simply go higher.

Youre clearly full of even more twisted curmudgeonly bitterness. Cos of this.

Mystic McCartneys crystal ball was on form last week.



Thursday 11th /Friday 12th / Saturday 13th June - Ringo highlights the institutional racism and misandry faced by white working class boys, whose attainment levels are the lowest of all groups, fordeaceds

Tuesday 16th June - No10 confirms race commission will also examine why working-class white boys are behind in school. Unbelievably prophetic.

Here's a thought. For years, white working class boys attainment levels would have been better, had crap teachers actually done their jobs!

Maybe they should all move to Lambeth, if your boy is struggling Wrongo it may be an idea?

[RingoMcCartney]

Lambeth Council have made massive strides with the attainment levels of white working class boys. I’ve mentioned it to Wrongo twice but he doesn’t want to engage on the point for some reason. If he’s that bothered about it perhaps he can point his child’s school in that direction.

Perhaps the commission that's going to look into why white working class boys attainment levels are the lowest of all groups, will look at Lambeth. Given white boys have been at the bottom of the pile for decades, its better late than never I guess.

Unlike myself who's consistently ahead of the curve.

And doesn't it stick in your craw..

[martin_p]

Perhaps the commission that's going to look into why white working class boys attainment levels are the lowest of all groups, will look at Lambeth. Given white boys have been at the bottom of the pile for decades, its better late than never I guess.

Unlike myself who's consistently ahead of the curve.

And doesn't it stick in your craw..

In what way we’re you ahead of the curve? Lambeth have had their strategy for a few years, probably resulting from one of the previous reports into the subject. You seem to have picked up on it last week.

In fact given you’re so ‘passionate’ about the subject I’m surprised you didn’t mention it when it was debated in the commons in February this year.

[tiger76]

If i may bring this thread back to the original theme and the UK and Australia have begun formal trade talks today.

Australia and UK formally start trade talks
Australia is relying heavily on its international trade to help lift its economy out of recession. And while its relations with China - its largest trading partner - are under severe strain, the big exporter is eagerly seeking markets elsewhere.

Brexit has thrown up the opportunity for a free trade agreement between the UK and Australia. While agreements for certain sectors have already been hammered out, a larger deal still needs to be worked on.

Today, Australia's trade minister announced the nation was formally starting those negotiations with the UK.

"Australia will be looking to secure better market access to goods exports especially in agriculture, and high-standard rules on digital trade and investment," Simon Birmingham said.

Australia's economy has endured the virus far better than many others - partly because the health impact was contained. Australia is also a large exporter - and trade in its commodities has continued during the crisis.