Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:57 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:An opinion based on years of being initially active in politics and since reading, listening and watching current affairs and drawing my own conclusions

Now.

"Evidence" that leaving the EU will be negative for the UK please.

Another Daily Mail reader!

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:02 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:That's a cheap shot but I'll rise above, the people who voted out most have thought they'd be better off without the excessive need for so much foreign labour especially when they would struggle to maintain a reasonable lifestyle, taking into account it's usually a modest two up two down dwelling without mattresses & bed settees strewn all over the house. Doing things 1 way especially when there's only 1 income just isn't possible on the minimum wage, nothing to do with foreign accents more the dire need for improvement & self preservation I should imagine.

You seem to be struggling to get my point. Maybe I’m not being clear enough - I’ll try again.

Our own govt has the power to implement and enforce a minimum wage which would solve all the problems you attribute to foreign labour, without us having to leave the EU - ie a minimum wage set at a level that allows workers (foreign and British) to live modestly but relatively comfortably without needing bed settees strewn all over the house. Why aren’t you pushing for that instead?

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:02 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:A video has emerged of Jeremy Corbyn describing the EU as a “massive, great Frankenstein” and attacking the idea of second referendums.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-st ... -1-5879503" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

oh Jeremy Corbyn! Oh Jeremy Corbyn!!

More Brexit lies!

biggles · Post by **biggles** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:03 pm

The EU has been happy for others to pay for NATO for many years. does this not say something about them?
The EU wants a European army. no doubt controlled by France and Germany.

you couldn't make this stuff up. sorry for the oft used cliche.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:07 pm

biggles wrote:what? you think france [surrender monkeys] freed europe? spain [neutral]? italy[part of the nazi/facist axis]? talk about facts. you seem to ignore most of them. without us europe would be under nazi rule - fact. i like the way you say i'm living in the past and then talk about over a hundred years etc etc. no irony there. france our allies? that amounts to nothing more than we haven't been at war with them for a while. with friends like france we don't need any enemies. don't try to teach me history, at least not until you know what the fcuk you are talking about. the russians did not do so much as free europe as stopping the nazis wiping them from the face of the earth. look what the ruskies are up to now. they will probably invade one of the baltic states before too long. what will the EU do then? probably come crying to us [NATO] for help, yet again. who basically funds NATO? the US. the UK pays its dues and its more than EU countries do.

Really no point in pursuing this. I suggested that you might do some research, and you come back within a few minutes repeating the same inaccuracies.
Not going to do the work for you but, just for starters, guess which country had heavier losses in each of the World Wars, our allies France or the UK?
And google how many Russian lives were lost in repelling the Nazis and driving them back across Europe?
Then you talk about the current Russian threat without considering that the chief beneficiary of brexit is Putin.
You're right that Spain was neutral though.

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:08 pm

biggles wrote:BREXIT IS HAPPENING GUYS. IT'S A GOOD THING. YOU WILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT. MAYBE YOU WILL HAVE TO SUFFER BECAUSE OF IT. DO I GIVE A SH1T ABOUT YOU? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

LoL - it’s people like you who are going to suffer and you can’t see it coming! If it wasn’t so pathetically sad we could all have a laugh!

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:10 pm

biggles wrote:
you couldn't make this stuff up. sorry for the oft used cliche.

Why? You do it all the time!!

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:12 pm

Greenmile wrote:Ok - let's take a look at what you said

Money used to be important to you due to the situation you were in. Now it isn't. (ie - "I'm alright Jack")

(then there was a load of evidence-free nonsense about how Brexit will be mostly harmless really, which even you can't be that confident about, as you go on to say...)

Sneaky use of the word "one's" there. You've already admitted that you're financially comfortable and money doesn't matter to you. So it's other peoples suffering that you're saying is "worth" some nebulous ideas about sovereignty or whatever. (ie "...so **** you")

I've got two children who are now in the situation I was back then, children and a mortgage to pay. If I didn't give a **** about others then I wouldn't be giving a toss about them either. So that arguments a load of ********.
I'll say again, I don't believe the vast majority of people will notice any difference in their day to day lives.
It would be a lie to say everyone will be better off when we leave, but then it's also a lie to claim everyone will be better off if we remain. There are always winners and losers what ever economic changes we encounter.
I don't know wether Erasmus will be a winner, loser, or one of the majority that feels no difference, but as whatever we do someone is going to pay the price, then I'd rather they paid the price for leaving the EU than staying.
At least, imo, those people will benefit from something even if it does hit them in the pocket. That isn't something I relish, but a sad fact.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:12 pm

biggles wrote:The EU has been happy for others to pay for NATO for many years. does this not say something about them?
The EU wants a European army. no doubt controlled by France and Germany.

you couldn't make this stuff up. sorry for the oft used cliche.

Say what, exactly? Quelle surprise, a global superpower emerging after WWII acted on its own geopolitical and strategic interests and decided to project its power on the European continent as the dominant player in a mutually beneficial defence pact. The fact the US is the biggest contributor tells you more about the US and its understandable desire to be global peacemaker than it does the EU.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:13 pm

Greenmile wrote:You seem to be struggling to get my point. Maybe I’m not being clear enough - I’ll try again.

Our own govt has the power to implement and enforce a minimum wage which would solve all the problems you attribute to foreign labour, without us having to leave the EU - ie a minimum wage set at a level that allows workers (foreign and British) to live modestly but relatively comfortably without needing bed settees strewn all over the house. Why aren’t you pushing for that instead?

Our government especially the mob in charge now do exactly what the EU want us to do, I've got your point & you are being clear, the government & the EU are intrinsically linked in terms of rule conformity which is at well should be at odds with we want for our nation, quite a substantial amount of people wish for us to become independent & self governing & to be perfectly Frank as little to do with the detestable EU as humanely possible.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:14 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote: Culture - also affected adversely by multiculturalism as well as the liberal agenda.

Says who? How?

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:14 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:I've got two children who are now in the situation I was back then, children and a mortgage to pay. If I didn't give a **** about others then I wouldn't be giving a toss about them either. So that arguments a load of ********.
I'll say again, I don't believe the vast majority of people will notice any difference in their day to day lives.
It would be a lie to say everyone will be better off when we leave, but then it's also a lie to claim everyone will be better off if we remain. There are always winners and losers what ever economic changes we encounter.
I don't know wether Erasmus will be a winner, loser, or one of the majority that feels no difference, but as whatever we do someone is going to pay the price, then I'd rather they paid the price for leaving the EU than staying.
At least, imo, those people will benefit from something even if it does hit them in the pocket. That isn't something I relish, but a sad fact.

Ah ok. So you’re happy for your children to suffer for your ideology too. I suppose that makes you a bit like the Christian god, at least.

Edit - when even Crosspool is admitting there is no economic case for Brexit (but there is one for remain), then your assertion that most people won’t notice any difference doesn’t hold much water. Make no bones about it, your children will suffer financially as a direct result of your vote, unless they are two of a very lucky few.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:16 pm

Jesus Christ!

(literally)

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:16 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:Our government especially the mob in charge now do exactly what the EU want us to do, I've got your point & you are being clear, the government & the EU are intrinsically linked in terms of rule conformity which is at well should be at odds with we want for our nation, quite a substantial amount of people wish for us to become independent & self governing & to be perfectly Frank as little to do with the detestable EU as humanely possible.

Now I don’t get your point. Are you saying the EU won’t let our govt implement a higher minimum wage? Or have you moved onto a new argument against the EU because I’ve pointed out the obvious flaw in your last one?

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:17 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:I've got two children who are now in the situation I was back then, children and a mortgage to pay. If I didn't give a **** about others then I wouldn't be giving a toss about them either. So that arguments a load of ********.
I'll say again, I don't believe the vast majority of people will notice any difference in their day to day lives.
It would be a lie to say everyone will be better off when we leave, but then it's also a lie to claim everyone will be better off if we remain. There are always winners and losers what ever economic changes we encounter.
I don't know wether Erasmus will be a winner, loser, or one of the majority that feels no difference, but as whatever we do someone is going to pay the price, then I'd rather they paid the price for leaving the EU than staying.
At least, imo, those people will benefit from something even if it does hit them in the pocket. That isn't something I relish, but a sad fact.

You just know you're going to be receiving end of a futuristic guilt trip.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:20 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:You just know you're going to be on the receiving end of a futuristic guilt trip.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:42 pm

You've all gone full Farage +++ here guys.

You are really letting us all know that this is based on a fantasy wish list that exists in a certain type of older UK resident.

It was pretty funny at first, but its genuinely concerning that you think this way, and are prepared to say so without any concerns that a lot of people would be horrified at what you are saying.

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:44 pm

summitclaret wrote:Just seen the second of three documentaries on bbc2 from last night. This one was on the euro/Greece crisis. Next Monday's is on migration. It has virtually all of the power brokers being interviewed, but not Juncker. It's essential viewing for anyone that contributes to this thread imo.

What struck me most was that things were sorted from an early stage by Merkel, french Presidents and Greece in behind the scenes. Once germany and france agreed rhe rest of the EU did. Just what I expected.

May is still not getting to the right level. She needs to be in with Merkel, Macron and Varadkar and away from the Commission.

Were you not struck by how Britain managed to opt out of contrbuting to the Greek bailout so easily? Brexiteers might wonder how that was possible, as we’ve been told for the past three years that we have no sovereignty and must do what Brussels says.

Alistair Darling pointed out that we weren’t prepared to do it as it was a Euro problem and weren’t party to the single currency. Brexiteers might wonder how it could be that we didn’t join the Euro, as that is what Brussels wanted, and we’ve been told for the past three years that we have no sovereignty and must do what Brussels says

Erasmus · Post by **Erasmus** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:54 pm

Thanks for that reply, Colburn. I am actually quite old and comfortably off, so I am not particularly concerned about my personal finances. It is more about the ability of the government to provide public services if the economy shrinks. That's where the penny becomes important as we all rely on those services to a greater or lesser degree. My worry is that if it is 'bumpy' as a result of Brexit then schools, the NHS, social care, policing etc. will suffer as a result. I know it may or may not be the case that the economy will shrink or growth be inhibited, but we are certainly taking a risk.

So is that risk worth it? The response is that we will have greater freedom. And again I would ask, How will I and others experience that freedom? How will it benefit us? What will I be able to do then that I can't do now? As I said before, freedom is desirable in terms of the tangible benefits it bestows. Where there are no benefits then freedom is simply an ephemeral concept.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:58 pm

Think you will find that we contributed via the IMF. We have also bailed out Ireland.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:59 pm

Utterly staggering the 'I'll be fine, happy to watch people suffer so I can pretend it's the 60s or WWII again attitude" around here.

Retired on a houses that cost pittance compared to today, out of the labour pool and relying on the people who will be hit hardest by Brexit to keep their state pension and NHS topped up with money.
Pretending only a small few will be hit in the most obvious EU linked jobs.

Selling out the future to live in the past.

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:01 pm

In the first episode of that documentary, I was struck by one of the Eurocrats (can’t remeber if it was Juncker or Barnier) saying that Cameron was quite candid in stating that he needed the referendum to shut the Brexiters up and unite his party.

The sad truth is that this whole mess is all about the Tory Party, from the pledge to hold the referendum, to lightweight remainer May turning hardline Brexiteer willing to throw her country under a bus to save her party, pandering to political opportunists like Johnson and Rees-Mogg who have seized upon the issue to raise their own profiles, but savvy enough not to want to get their hands dirty negotiating a deal they have always known couldn’t be done.

Makes you sick when you think about it.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:08 pm

What if the ridiculous euro project brings europe and beyond to its knees like it nearly did recently. Forcing northern Europe's work culture and southern's laid back style into one currency was always going to be hard. It's failed and now they say it needs political control to get it right.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:08 pm

Only works though if people are prepared to ignore that, and pretend that its all the fault of the EU.

It does annoy me that bright people appear to be unable to see that, or more likely, are prepared to ignore it for the reasons we have sadly seen on this thread.

Imagine what they would come out with if they were the type who posted drunk. I reckon a few truths that we all suspect would come flying out.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:10 pm

Erasmus wrote:Thanks for that reply, Colburn. I am actually quite old and comfortably off, so I am not particularly concerned about my personal finances. It is more about the ability of the government to provide public services if the economy shrinks. That's where the penny becomes important as we all rely on those services to a greater or lesser degree. My worry is that if it is 'bumpy' as a result of Brexit then schools, the NHS, social care, policing etc. will suffer as a result. I know it may or may not be the case that the economy will shrink or growth be inhibited, but we are certainly taking a risk.

So is that risk worth it? The response is that we will have greater freedom. And again I would ask, How will I and others experience that freedom? How will it benefit us? What will I be able to do then that I can't do now? As I said before, freedom is desirable in terms of the tangible benefits it bestows. Where there are no benefits then freedom is simply an ephemeral concept.

You won’t get an answer to that, he’s been avoiding ‘tangible’.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:13 pm

Burnley Ace wrote: ... that speech from a King who was more French than English!

Henry V was the first English-speaking king (as a first language) since Edward the Confessor; his ancestors were English kings, plus Dukes of Lancaster, Arundel, Surrey, the Earl of Buchan, Baron Beaumont, etc etc.

He had a French great-grandmother among all the English and Scots, if that helps.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:13 pm

Greenmile wrote:What did you do during the war?

I can answer that, if Biggleswade is unwilling to.

He did f *ck all, of course. That won't stop him from piggybacking on that previous generation, and reflecting in the glory of efforts that he had nothing to do with.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:22 pm

dsr wrote:Henry V was the first English-speaking king (as a first language) since Edward the Confessor; his ancestors were English kings, plus Dukes of Lancaster, Arundel, Surrey, the Earl of Buchan, Baron Beaumont, etc etc.

He had a French great-grandmother among all the English and Scots, if that helps.

More importantly Biggle's original quote was from Henry V Pt3; a piece of historical fiction where facts were changed in order to create a more attractive and 'patriotic' narrative for the masses...

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:24 pm

Greenmile wrote:Ah ok. So you’re happy for your children to suffer for your ideology too. I suppose that makes you a bit like the Christian god, at least.

Edit - when even Crosspool is admitting there is no economic case for Brexit (but there is one for remain), then your assertion that most people won’t notice any difference doesn’t hold much water. Make no bones about it, your children will suffer financially as a direct result of your vote, unless they are two of a very lucky few.

In a nutshell, I don't agree.
I wouldn't dream of causing my kids to suffer, and I don't think they will. You buy into the doom and gloom, fair enough, but I don't. I'm realistic enough to accept that it means changes but also realistic enough to know there is always light at the end of the tunnel. We will come out of this fine, however we go into it. It's just a matter of time.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:28 pm

summitclaret wrote:Think you will find that we contributed via the IMF. We have also bailed out Ireland.

Both correct, but ironically both these points rather defeat your argument.
Re: Greece We were weren't required to contribute a penny to Greece via our EU membership, but did indirectly (as you say) via the IMF. So that won't change if we leave the EU.
Re: Ireland. The decision to bail out Ireland was a result of legislation taken by our sovereign UK Parliament
"The Loans to Ireland Act 2010 (c. 41) is an Act of Parliament of the United Kingdom. The Act allows HM Treasury to loan up to £3,250 million (£3.25 billion; €3,835 million/€3.84 billion)[n 1] to Ireland, as part of an €85 billion European Union bailout package. The final disbursement of the loan was made on 26 September 2013. The final repayment by Ireland is due on 26 March 2021."
Inconvenient truths for those who a) think that we can't make our own laws / decisions and b) seek to blame the EU for everything they don't like.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:28 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:In a nutshell, I don't agree.
I wouldn't dream of causing my kids to suffer, and I don't think they will. You buy into the doom and gloom, fair enough, but I don't. I'm realistic enough to accept that it means changes but also realistic enough to know there is always light at the end of the tunnel. We will come out of this fine, however we go into it. It's just a matter of time.

It’s turned out nice again.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:29 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:Our government especially the mob in charge now do exactly what the EU want us to do, I've got your point & you are being clear, the government & the EU are intrinsically linked in terms of rule conformity which is at well should be at odds with we want for our nation, quite a substantial amount of people wish for us to become independent & self governing & to be perfectly Frank as little to do with the detestable EU as humanely possible.

Exactly what Scotland are saying about the UK.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:30 pm

dsr wrote:Henry V was the first English-speaking king (as a first language) since Edward the Confessor

Nope, that was his dad.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:35 pm

Biggles

I'll put this as nicely as I can

None of us have the right to use the sacrifices made during the war to score cheap political points. None of us.

You have no idea how they would have voted, no idea of how they think. no idea of what they would have done. All you can do is honour their sacrifice and never forget it.

It really is that simple.

biggles · Post by **biggles** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:35 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:LoL - it’s people like you who are going to suffer and you can’t see it coming! If it wasn’t so pathetically sad we could all have a laugh!

i think you'll suffer more than me. your fear is almost palpable. that makes me smile. brexit can't come soon enough.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:38 pm

biggles wrote:you sad sack of sh1. millions of people died in the wars [you know, the wars that germany started] i'm disgusted that morons like you forget the massive debt of gratitude this country and europe owe to those who died. no wonder the EU want to forget about the wars many of them lost and are full of shame. what did you ever do for your country? you must have done something worthwhile if you can stand by your comments trying to put me down about it. yes? no? just more nonsense from remain gobsh1tes.

The people who fought and died in the Second World War, did so to unite Europe, not to divide it. By backing brexit you are taking a massive dump on their memory and the freedoms they fought for. People like you should be ashamed of yourselves. You are literally betraying the legacy they gave to Europe.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:39 pm

How JRM convinced Biggles to support a no deal Brexit
https://youtu.be/V3TT1VE8Jq0

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:43 pm

summitclaret wrote:Think you will find that we contributed via the IMF. We have also bailed out Ireland.

Thats an interesting interpretation of facts even by brexiteer standards. Any money paid to the IMF was part of an international effort to shore up the global financial system and not to do with our obligations to Europe, as was the assistance to Ireland, where we have a very obvious national interest.

biggles · Post by **biggles** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:44 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Biggles

I'll put this as nicely as I can

None of us have the right to use the sacrifices made during the war to score cheap political points. None of us.

You have no idea how they would have voted, no idea of how they think. no idea of what they would have done. All you can do is honour their sacrifice and never forget it.

It really is that simple.

and i honour their memory. if you haven't served in HM Forces you really wouldn't get it. and i'm pretty sure they would have voted for what they thought was best for the UK and most of them wouldn't have wanted to 'get into bed' with germany no matter the cost. i am not using the war for points like you suggest. but some of your lot seem to conveniently put it out of their minds in support of the EU. if anyone is using the wars for points i would say it's them,

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:45 pm

dsr wrote:Henry V was the first English-speaking king (as a first language) since Edward the Confessor; his ancestors were English kings, plus Dukes of Lancaster, Arundel, Surrey, the Earl of Buchan, Baron Beaumont, etc etc.

He had a French great-grandmother among all the English and Scots, if that helps.

Really? His mum was called Mary de Bohun (a classic English name!) you need to check his family tree - immigrants from Europe!!!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:45 pm

No, you do not have that right.

That is something that you need to understand.

You. Do. Not. Have. that. Right.

Understand

You devalue their sacrifice by dragging them into this. Do not do it.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:46 pm

biggles wrote:and i honour their memory. if you haven't served in HM Forces you really wouldn't get it. and i'm pretty sure they would have voted for what they thought was best for the UK and most of them wouldn't have wanted to 'get into bed' with germany no matter the cost. i am not using the war for points like you suggest. but some of your lot seem to conveniently put it out of their minds in support of the EU. if anyone is using the wars for points i would say it's them,

Don't forget your debt of gratitude to these guys Biggles, you know, the ones who actually won The Battle of Britain...

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:49 pm

biggles wrote:i think you'll suffer more than me. your fear is almost palpable. that makes me smile. brexit can't come soon enough.

There are many things written on these threads that you can’t be sure of but I can guarantee one thing (and the people who know who I am will be laughing) I will not be suffering more than you! Bless you son, you have been making me laugh all night:-)

biggles · Post by **biggles** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:49 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:No, you do not have that right.

That is something that you need to understand.

You. Do. Not. Have. that. Right.

Understand

You devalue their sacrifice by dragging them into this. Do not do it.

more. drivel. from. lancaster. stop. it. now. please.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:51 pm

biggles wrote: [you know, the wars that germany started]

Another historical error I'm afraid.
I'll help you with this one. Germany didn't start WW1, in fact it was 4 days old when they declared war on Russia, and 6 days old before it declared war on France. (This led to the UK declaring war as an ally of France).
In the days leading up to Germany joining the war, incidentally, the Germans tried to persuade the Russians to demobilise, and the French to declare neutrality in the event of a Russo / German War, but their diplomacy failed.

biggles · Post by **biggles** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:51 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:There are many things written on these threads that you can’t be sure of but I can guarantee one thing (and the people who know who I am will be laughing) I will not be suffering more than you! Bless you son, you have been making me laugh all night:-)

that's quite an arrogant statement seeing as you know nothing about me. i am sure those who know you laugh at you all the time. dad

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:52 pm

You don't have the right, unless you fought in the war.

You did not.

So you don't.

Its even more simple than "Brexit means Brexit"

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:54 pm

It is greed which fuels the sandal wearing stompers.

Materialistic, money oriented, I'm okay but if my pension takes a nose dive I may have to give up drinking French wine.... as long as I don't have to live next to them Romanians...... they are thick as pig sh1t in Burnley......

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:54 pm

Evoking the memories of dead heroes from 80 years ago to deflect from your lack of understanding of modern global economics and dislike of people from not round here...

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:55 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:The people who fought and died in the Second World War, did so to unite Europe, not to divide it. By backing brexit you are taking a massive dump on their memory and the freedoms they fought for. People like you should be ashamed of yourselves. You are literally betraying the legacy they gave to Europe.

Our fathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers fought in the trenches to simply stop hitler & the third reich taking over, at no point to my knowledge was the plan to unite europe, the immediate concern was to defeat the enemy & try to stay alive, the hatred was so deep between the countries the last thing on anybody’s mind was a cup of tea & some rich tea biscuits, some of the grandfathers would be spinning in they graves with the implication any future union would be beneficial in any shape or form or from any sane perspective.