Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[RingoMcCartney]

It’s a simple question What is your definition of “evidence, nothing insulting about that but it appears to be one that you are unable to answer

Being a quarterwit , is being a halfwit a status you aspire to reach?

[Greenmile]

I was half way through answering this to another poster and lost the bloody lot . Start again.

I've been in favour for a long time that more decisions should be given to the region's. I don't want Scottish independence, but devolving that power to Holyrood was essential, and although devolving power to the region's isn't seen as important, I think it could go a long way to restoring people's trust in politics. Many people in the North of England feel just as disenfranchised by a Tory led Westminster, as the Scots do.

All over Europe regions want more autonomy. Catalans and Basques in Spain. The Balkans post Tito. The Soviet bloc.
There is nothing wrong and nothing to be ashamed of, for being different.

Putting all the people in a melting pot, and knocking out coffee coloured children might be lead to a peaceful world, but it would be a damn boring one as well.

I love the kaleidoscope that makes Europe. The languages, architectures, food, drinks customs, dress. It's what makes Europe such a wonderful place. I've never been anti Europe, just anti EU.

So I’m getting from that that you think regions should be independent / autonomous if that’s what they want. Fair enough but how far do we stretch that principle?

How about cities or towns (Greater Manchester, say, or Burnley, or Colburn)? How about individual streets or even houses? That would involve even less lost sovereignty. If you live on your own and your house is an independent state, that’s the only way you can have 100% sovereignty, but you’d probably be pretty poor as well.

[Greenmile]

You're single handedly proving, that a lack of intelligence is a real handicap, when your attempting to be insulting.

Probably best not to spell the same word in two different ways in the same sentence when you’re trying to accuse someone else of lacking intelligence Ringo.

(There follows a list of questions, which I’m confident you won’t answer. I’ll probably get one of your copy-pasta responses with LOADS OF BLOCK CAPITALS INSTEAD.)

Remember when you got all upset because you (erroneously) thought I had called you a simpleton? How is the above post any different? Why don’t you answer Burnley Ace’s simple questions instead of throwing insults around? Is it because you can’t?

[Burnley Ace]

"It's "evidence" of an inevitable crushing defeat!!!!!" Scream the Remoaners.

They don’t say that, they say that getting a penalty is an advantage, and the evidence shows that more often than not leads to an opposition goal.

We are all still waiting for your definition of evidence, it’s intriguing why you can’t answer!

[Burnley Ace]

Probably best not to spell the same word in two different ways in the same sentence when you’re trying to accuse someone else of lacking intelligence Ringo

He’s gone all Donald Tusk! “It’s the fear” as Farage would shout! I’ll let him off, he was probably “in drink” and typing too fast

[Greenmile]

He’s gone all Donald Tusk! “It’s the fear” as Farage would shout! I’ll let him off, he was probably “in drink” and typing too fast

If you’re going to let Ringo off the hook because he was drunk, you’ll be forgiving him for practically every post he writes.

[Clarethalffull]

Considering leave 'won' and spent a fair chunk of time gloating and telling everyone to 'get over it' they don't half bang on about it on here. Usually in a fairly angry tone, hurling insults at other users.

Why are you so mad if you won?

Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

[AndrewJB]

With all the anger about Tusk’s.comments yesterday, I’m still waiting for all the leading proponents of Brexit to remind us of their plans.

[Lancasterclaret]

Hi Greenmile, there are parallels in the break up of Yugoslavia after Tito's death.

There are not.

Even in NI the levels of dislike between the some of the Catholics and some of the Protestants is absolutely nothing compared to the Croats and the Serbs. And throw in the Orthodox Christians, Muslims and Catholics into it, then you've got the perfect recipe for a religous and ethnic war which is exactly what happened. Throw in what happened in WWII and its the perfect tinder box.

Not the same here thankfully, it would be a far more peaceful (but still traumatic) break up.

[RingoMcCartney]

I'll use yours-

Evidence is the available body of facts or information indicating whether a proposition is true or valid

Opinion is a view formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. 

Conjecture is an opinion formed on the basis of incomplete information. 

Now you provide definitions of the following-

assumptions,

projections,

scenarios given varying criteria,

predictions,

assumptions

forecasts

belief,

expectation,

speculation

surmising

suspicion,

short termism.

Because not a single one of your examples that brexit will have a negative impact on the uk was "evidence". It was an example of at least one of the above.

This is me using the trolls own definitions of evidence, opinion and conjecture as I cut not paste his own words

However he wants to continue his attention craving trolling and won't accept his own definitions.

[RingoMcCartney]

Probably best not to spell the same word in two different ways in the same sentence when you’re trying to accuse someone else of lacking intelligence Ringo.

(There follows a list of questions, which I’m confident you won’t answer. I’ll probably get one of your copy-pasta responses with LOADS OF BLOCK CAPITALS INSTEAD.)

Remember when you got all upset because you (erroneously) thought I had called you a simpleton? How is the above post any different? Why don’t you answer Burnley Ace’s simple questions instead of throwing insults around? Is it because you can’t?

Thanks for that spelling officer. I'll consider your advice. However , the inference that intelligence and a spelling mistake are linked could suggest you lack the former.

I answered his question as can be seen in the above quote.

Instead of accepting , by his own definitions he has not provided any "evidence " Just opinions or assumptions, projections, scenarios given varying criteria, predictions, assumptions and forecasts and short termism.

He prefers to troll....

[Lancasterclaret]

Got to admit Ringo, Rowls is quite good at deflecting the real issues, but he's a babe in arms compared to you.

[RingoMcCartney]

Got to admit Ringo, Rowls is quite good at deflecting the real issues, but he's a babe in arms compared to you.

To be fair , you and I cross swords on Brexit regularly. But I'd expect that if you asked me to provide you with definitions of 3 words, and I obliged by using your own words. You'd accept them with the maturity of a fair minded adult.

Others however?...........

[Lancasterclaret]

Not getting involved!

I've said my piece on this, it now obvious that Brexit is going to be bad and its now obvious that its going to take years to recover from, both economically and politically.

I still don't understand why we need to do it in such a hurry, and the likes of Summit and andyclaret (previously) agree that as long as we leave, its best to get it right and take our time to get it right.

[RingoMcCartney]

Not getting involved!

I've said my piece on this, it now obvious that Brexit is going to be bad and its now obvious that its going to take years to recover from, both economically and politically.

I still don't understand why we need to do it in such a hurry, and the likes of Summit and andyclaret (previously) agree that as long as we leave, its best to get it right and take our time to get it right.

Fair enough.

[Falcon]

Oh look, Leave.EU found guilty of more dodgy dealings, this time being fines by the Information Commissioners Office for sending political marketing messages to customers of an insurance company closely linked to them.

https://youtalk-insurance.com/broker-ne ... -marketing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Loyalclaret]

Did the big companies who wrote to their employees warning of Brexit get their knuckles rapped?

From someone who voted to Remain.

Edit- thanks Paul & those who answered the question. Must be tired- voted to remain.

[martin_p]

I said-

Clarets concede a penalty within minutes of the game starting.

Before the pen taker even steps up.-

"It's "evidence" of an inevitable crushing defeat!!!!!" Scream the confidence lacking Remoaners.

So I said it was Remoaners claiming that what you're saying as "things aren't going well" as evidence that, because a team as conceded an early penalty the outcome of their defeat is a forgone conclusion. It's not evidence it's a misplaced assumption.

I.e. what may turn out to be just short term business decisions which Remoaners are seizing upon as evidence. Evidence that it's a forgone conclusion that brexit will have a negative impact on the uk, are nothing of the sort. They're. misplaced assumptions

Huddersfield- my opinion is they'll go down. It's an assumption. Only at the end of the season, or if it's mathematically impossible for their survival, before the end of the season. Will you be able to provide actual evidence that they've been relegated. Till then it's an opinion based on an assumption.

We have not left the European Union yet. Until we actually do, whether or not it will turn out to be positive or negative, is just an opinion / assumption.

But your football analogy is fundamentally flawed. It’s only the final score that matters in football, but life isn’t like that. If bad Brexit things are happening now and starting to affect people now then it’s now that matters. The opinion that things might get better at some undefined point in the future don’t matter to the people who are worrying about their future because their company has decided to move abroad.

[Tall Paul]

Did the big companies who wrote to their employees warning of Brexit get the knuckles wrapped?

From someone who voted to Leave

Why would they? What laws were they breaking?

And, perhaps more importantly, what would their knuckles be getting wrapped in?

[Jakubclaret]

With all the anger about Tusk’s.comments yesterday, I’m still waiting for all the leading proponents of Brexit to remind us of their plans.

People have, it's like selling double glazing to people who live in tents, despite people reasoning & logically explaining, people who are ideologically opposed to Brexit will never listen it's embedded in the psyche whatever the merits of the argument, people just give up wasting they time eventually going over & over it again & again repeatedly it's a stone sponge.

[nil_desperandum]

Did the big companies who wrote to their employees warning of Brexit get the knuckles wrapped?

Why?
As a responsible employer it's surely right and proper (when applicable), to remind your employees how dependent their business is in trade with the EU, when their trading history and future planning shows that this is the case.
They didn't do anything illegal by trying to ensure the future profitability of their business and provide job security for their employees.

[RingoMcCartney]

But your football analogy is fundamentally flawed. It’s only the final score that matters.

You were doing so well.

A team may conceded a pen early doors, it's not "evidence" of a tied on defeat. Its the final score that matters.

Business's may currently be making decisions that prove to be reversible or short term. They're not evidence of Brexit being negative for Britain. Time may prove that brexit has been fantastic for Britain.

[Lancasterclaret]

Okay Jakub, enlighten us with this plan that is so obvious its been missed by

- everyone who posts on here
- every journalist
- every politician
- The EU
- everybody else

Cos there is a workable plan in here right?

[TVC15]

Ok - I think we got there
Why do you think Brexit will be good for the UK for jobs and economic growth IN YOUR OPINION ?
Be good if you include in that how you think we will reverse the job and financial losses which have already happened as a direct result of the vote to leave.

Maybe include a few examples of where those jobs will increase so we get that positive impact you are predicting.

It will be great if this positive impact is in this century

[dsr]

Did the big companies who wrote to their employees warning of Brexit get the knuckles wrapped?

From someone who voted to Leave

It's not the fact of sending the message that is the issue here. The illegality is that the two bodies shared databases without permission from their customers. It looks from the report that it was after the referendum, so even the most one-eyed remainer won't be able to argue that is is an issue as far as the validity of the referendum goes.

[Lancasterclaret]

Worth mentioning that the Lab Brexit policy set out last night actually meets the concerns of the Brady amendment.

Course, that would mean May throwing the ERG out to agree with Labour for the benefit of the country (ie avoiding a "No Deal") and would probably split the Tory party.

But it shows there are plans there, but they need balls and interest of the country to be first. It isn't at the moment.

[Burnley Ace]

He prefers to troll....

LOL the hypocrisy!!

Come on Ringo it’s a simple question, what is your definition of evidence? I keep posting what I think it is but you never say what your definition is and the more I ask the more you squirm.

[martin_p]

You were doing so well.

A team may conceded a pen early doors, it's not "evidence" of a tied on defeat. Its the final score that matters.

Business's may currently be making decisions that prove to be reversible or short term. They're not evidence of Brexit being negative for Britain. Time may prove that brexit has been fantastic for Britain.

The evidence proves that Brexit is negative for Britain now, today. I’m not offering an opinion on the future, i’m telling you the impact of Brexit now. As I said, opinion of potential sunlit uplands don’t mean a thing to people being impacted now.

[martin_p]

Duplicate post

[Lancasterclaret]

To be fair, we could all put "duplicate post" on all these replies and we'd all save ourselves the frustrations and the time!

[summitclaret]

So there we have it. Labour comes off the fence and guess what it wants free movement of people and no independent trade policy. Perfect timing to frustrate discussions on the backstop and probably what may asked corbyn to do.

The establishment's plan from its special place in heaven in full flow. MPs overriding brexit.

[android]

This is a strange thread even by Brexit standards.

The posters who would like to stop Brexit, seem to be arguing that the economic growth and hundreds of thousands of jobs created since the referendum are negatives caused by Brexit.

I suppose it's just the BBC house view being expressed - all good economic news is despite Brexit and all bad economic news is caused by Brexit. Sigh.

[Lancasterclaret]

The blokes in the press and in the independent think tanks though think it satisfies the Brady Agreement.

That counts as a deal that would get through both the UK Parliament and the be acceptable to the EU.

[martin_p]

This is a strange thread even by Brexit standards.

The posters who would like to stop Brexit, seem to be arguing that the economic growth and hundreds of thousands of jobs created since the referendum are negatives caused by Brexit.

I suppose it's just the BBC house view being expressed - all good economic news is despite Brexit and all bad economic news is caused by Brexit. Sigh.

I think it’s difficult to argue that the triggering of Brexit contingency plans has nothing to do with Brexit.

[android]

I think it’s difficult to argue that the triggering of Brexit contingency plans has nothing to do with Brexit.

I don't understand your point. Although I would certainly agree that Brexit uncertainty has been very unhelpful. 3 years of "will we or won't we" has been no good for anyone. A lot of people seem to confuse the effects of Brexit uncertainty with the effects of Brexit.

[martin_p]

I don't understand your point. Although I would certainly agree that Brexit uncertainty has been very unhelpful. 3 years of "will we or won't we" has been no good for anyone. A lot of people seem to confuse the effects of Brexit uncertainty with the effects of Brexit.

Brexit uncertainty doesn’t exist without Brexit, so it’s an effect of Brexit however you look at it.

[summitclaret]

The blokes in the press and in the independent think tanks though think it satisfies the Brady Agreement.

That counts as a deal that would get through both the UK Parliament and the be acceptable to the EU.

Yeah right. If it gets through the HOC the government falls. Maybe that is corbyn's tactic. Not a bad one, but I think he would be in for a shock as there are 420 leave voting constituencies. If anyone thinks the country will accept free movement after all this fuss they are in cc land.

[nil_desperandum]

Yeah right. If it gets through the HOC the government falls. .

Why? Are you assuming that the ERG and DUP will suddenly start voting against May and for Corbyn on every other issue?
That will never happen.

[Lancasterclaret]

Government won't fall, it will just force 50 odd ERG MPs to decide what to do next.

My guess would be even more media coverage than they have already going on about more variations of the unrealistic stuff they haven't changed in about two years.

All meaningless anyway because Theresa May would have to make a decision that she's desperately hoping not to have to make, in the even more foolish hope that the EU are remotely interested in the internal affairs of the Conservative Party.

[summitclaret]

The DUP will pull its c and s agreement.

[summitclaret]

Just watching Neil tie Charabti in absolutely knots on free movement. She is normally composed but was unbelievably incoherent.

[Lancasterclaret]

Neil is too good at this for all the current politicians.

[nil_desperandum]

The DUP will pull its c and s agreement.

Sure it will, and throw in its lot with JC!
This is why May didn't need to bribe them in the first place. The DUP are never going to "get into bed" with Corbyn.
They'll just ask May for more money in order to ensure their continued support and she'll comply.
Leaving brexit aside. We're in a terrible state when we are continually held to ransom by that group of bigots and extremists.

[summitclaret]

It won't be like that. The DUP will just frustrate until a GE is inevitable.

[Lancasterclaret]

And DUP are more concerned with being separated from the UK. They wouldn't be under the Lab plans.

[bfccrazy]

We’re about a month away from Theresa May saying we can have Ireland one weekend a fortnight

[nil_desperandum]

It won't be like that. The DUP will just frustrate until a GE is inevitable.

An election which might (or more than likely) might see them lose power? Why would they do that?
They can continue to pull all the strings whilst May has a minority administration. If there's an election who knows what might happen, but the chances of it resulting in the status quo are not high, and any other scenario sees them losing the power / stranglehold they currently have.
e.g. Gen Election held in a few weeks:
Scenario 1> Labour come to power as a result of some kind of coalition or outright win
Scenario 2 > Tories scrape an outright majority so don't need DUP
There's no way Foster would commit the DUP to some kind of deal with Corbyn in order to put him into No. 10.

[hampsteadclaret]

Just waiting for someone to blame today's Bank of England economic growth forecast on Brexit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47155537" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[nil_desperandum]

Just waiting for someone to blame today's Bank of England economic growth forecast on Brexit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47155537" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for drawing it to my attention.

[summitclaret]

France is recalling its ambassador from Rome. I love it.