Lancasterclaret wrote:Thats a big post telling me to believe in the UK more Paul, with the greatest respect.
Now, which markets can we access that we don't already access in the world? I mean, there isn't a single country that we don't trade with already. Its a massive failure on our part that we don't utilise the networks we already have. To pretend we can get better ones is mis information on an epic scale.
I do look at it from an EU point of view. But only to counter balance those who keep repeating the lies and misinformation of the past two years. I want us to get a good deal out of this, I'm also well aware that it won't be as good as the one we have now.
If you'd like to give me someone within the EU who looks at us differently from what we read, then feel free. All I know is that a 27 nation bloc is more united at the moment on this than we are.
And again, I can make Brexit sound ace by lying and making things up. That is what Crosspool, Jakub, Andy, Ringo are doing. its not hard.
What is hard is to try to explain reality, UK trade, WTO etc etc to an audience who don't want to understand anything that might be a problem.
I like your posts mate, but "do yourself a favour and think about the world beyond the UK" is patronising to the nth degree. Its what I look at when I'm commenting on stuff like this.
This will be bad whatever we do, but it will be a lot worse if we ignore the reality.
Hi Lancs, sorry, no, you've not understood what I said. I'm suggesting that we can all learn more by putting aside any "UK perspective" and, in it's place look at what is going on in the world away from the UK. (Try and forget we were born in the UK, are UK citizens and are living in the UK, if that clarifies my meaning). So, the Irish Inependent editorial is about Ireland and Brussels, try and think of it in those terms only. Similarly, because we were discussing, New Zealand think about what NZ has achieved over the past several years. Similarly, think about what has happened in India since the early 1990s and China from a similar period. And, we can learn stuff by putting ourselves in the place of lots of other countries in the world. Simply put "it's not all about the UK" and equally, "it's not all about the UK and the EU."
When you've tried all that, then try and put aside your current views about brexit and try and put aside your current views about the EU. It's intersting that you chose to state "All I know is that a 27 nation bloc is more united at the moment on this than we are." I'm far from claiming that the UK is united, far from it. As you've said many times, the divisions in this country are a big contributor to why we are where we are more than 30 months after the referendum. But, I think you are only thinking of the EU in terms of how the EU is responding to brexit. What about all the other stuff that is going on in the EU? Are the EU27 united on all those things or are there many, many, splits and divisions?
I saw a report during the week where George Soros is quoted as warning that the EU is heading for collapse just like the Soviet Union. "Europe please wake up" - Soros,
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"Most of us assume that the future will more or less resemble the present, but this is not necessarily so. In a long and eventful life, I have witnessed many periods of what I call radical disequilibrium. We are living in such a period today."
I'm not saying I share Soros's view point - but he may be speaking of another "reality" - and he's lived longer and seen more of life than I have.
Are you with me now?
