Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[Imploding Turtle]

I voted Leave
I have like the other 17.4 million been ignored

...

[Rick_Muller]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... h_2019.pdf

Here’s the unadulterated report for those who don’t like the Twitter commentary. It doesn’t really make any better reading I’m afraid. You can’t just stick your collective Brexit heads in the sand over this.

I fear their heads are so far in the sand they need factor 50 for their feet...

[JohnMcGreal]

I voted Leave
I have like the other 17.4 million been ignored

Democracy is dead

The politicians are all crooks expenses scandal 10 years ago and now this

I am never going to bother voting again and I concede defeat to the establishment who never expected us to vote against them but after 2.5 years I have been worn down by the one sided media the lies about no deal being a disaster which I don’t believe will be.

Mrs May - I actually believed you were going to deliver the Brexit you promised in your Mansion House speech
I actually believed you when you said over 30 times in the House of Commons “we are leaving on 29th March 2019”
I believed that our Civil Service would deliver on the will of the people.

I was wrong

I can’t I believe do anything about it

At least I don’t need to spend any more time reading about BREXIT because I lost even though I won

UTC

Get a hold of yourself man.

[nil_desperandum]

I suggest 1 night time you go into leeds/manchester or any city & peer under bridges or shop doorways basically anywhere where theres cover & you will see people at the rock bottom the poorest in society, i haven't imagined it its there, for some people life cannot get any worse, .

I don't need any lectures about homelessness. it's an absolute stain on our society, but it actually can get worse. Most of these people are largely dependent on charity, and evidence from the past suggests that charities suffer significantly when the economy suffers.
Just as a simplistic example. If my weekly food bill goes up by £5, then one of the first economies I might make may well be to reduce my donations to the foodbank. But it's a far bigger and more complex issue than this. If more people are moving into poverty, how does that help those already below them?

[Lancasterclaret]

A twitter randomer giving biased interpretation of government plans.

I gave up after the first two points which were so pedantic and semantics driven, although it’s a miracle I got past “Now we had a referendum about the EU. You know the advisory NON- BINDING one riddled with breaches of electoral law and foreign interference.”

But aye, you keep posting em.

And no Lancs, no issue. If anything I enjoy the humour of someone not only taking tweets like that seriously but then trying to use it to illustrate a point to others.

Whatever the debacle with brexit, your twitter examples do lift my spirits.

I told you to ignore that bit DarthRingo!

I used to think you were bright. But you don't read government reports that tell you that what you believe isn't actually true.

Give it a couple of days, and you'll be screaming "leave means leave" like the rest of them.

[Lancasterclaret]

Worth mentioning again btw

You know you've won when the attacks get personal.

Whatever Brexit we end up with, the ones who voted for it are going to be the most ****** off when it magically doesn't solve anything.

[Lancasterclaret]

I am never going to bother voting again

Based on your post and the inaccuracies in it, that is probably a good idea all round.

[randomclaret2]

Celebrating people deciding its not worth voting ? How very liberal...

[CrosspoolClarets]

A new poll out by the superb Politico.EU today makes it very clear what the public could tolerate:

1. Very few want us to leave with no deal.
2. Support for an extension is there for 1-3 months but plummets for > 3 months.
3. A majority support May's deal if she can get changes to the backstop, with a big majority of Leave voters too.
4. If a Customs Union were included, there were be less of a net majority for May's deal, and the Leave support plummets to only 29% of leavers.
5. Very few support extending for an election or a referendum.

https://www.politico.eu/article/poll-pu ... hort-deal/

That to me seems like common sense and based on the polling May is right to focus on the backstop, a short 3 month delay, and to leave the Customs Union so she can fully deliver the referendum result. Everything else is just unnecessary noise.

EDIT - Hijacking no deal is one thing, but if the Commons hijacked the revised May deal (e.g. by insisting on a Customs Union or a 2nd Referendum) I suspect the response from voters would be swift and brutal. That's what this tells me.

[Lancasterclaret]

In short, the May deal but its back to the ERG changing their stance.

I've been saying this repeatedly on here, but the ERG are the problem to us leaving with a deal that isn't ideal but at least allows us to plan for the future.

[Lancasterclaret]

Politico

Thats Ian Dunts lot isn't it?

[CrosspoolClarets]

Totally disagree Lancs, I've also long since said that JRM (to use him as an example) would vote for her deal if it wasn't a trap - he said as much at 8:45 today on the BBC. Basically, if Geoffrey Cox says it isn't a trap, the ERG will vote for it. They have been fairly consistent on that all along.

Whereas Labour seem to suggest they will vote against her deal again, even with a revised backstop. Who is it that's risking no deal again?

[Lancasterclaret]

Its not a trap though Crosspool, it really isn't.

Its only a trap because you are looking at this ideologically ie the EU will never let us go cos they need us too much

If its looked at through the eyes of trade/CU/SM , then the EU want this over as quickly as we do.

I'll show you a link (for the benefit of Darth, this is a Brussells correspondent and a journalist) which explains it better.

https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/sta ... 1514183680" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lancasterclaret]

The ERG are already weakening today on the backstop, as they are starting to understand the dangers for Brexit here.

Mays deal is the only way you lot are getting Brexit and you have to remember that its only a withdrawal agreement.

Once we are out, then we are out, but faffing around now means the very real risk (not for me obviously!) that we end up staying in.

[Darthlaw]

Worth mentioning again btw

You know you've won when the attacks get personal.

Whatever Brexit we end up with, the ones who voted for it are going to be the most ****** off when it magically doesn't solve anything.

Who’s making attacks personal here? You’ll have to make allowances in your explanation as apparently I’m not very bright according to some.

[summitclaret]

So after TIG set we have a massive 17% (up from 9%) supporting a second vote. Very clear from that that there us no real demand for a second vote. Quite right - this needs to end by 30 june this year. Second voters just want to stop Brexit.

[Lancasterclaret]

Hope your Brexit is worth it Darth

[Darthlaw]

Atop your highest of horses, I’m sure whatever Brexit we finish up with will be beneath you.

[Lancasterclaret]

Won't bother me Darth, I just like pointing out the downsides to the er, "sunlit uplands"

But I don't really have to, because everyone is doing it now. Shame that wasn't the case in 2016 but hey ho.

I wouldn't mind if there was loads of stuff out there so I could go "Ah, yeah, you have a point there" with Brexit, but there genuinely isn't.

[Lancasterclaret]

Celebrating people deciding its not worth voting ? How very liberal...

Yup

One less person who will vote for stuff based on Daily Mail editorials. Win/win for us liberals

[Jakubclaret]

I don't need any lectures about homelessness. it's an absolute stain on our society, but it actually can get worse. Most of these people are largely dependent on charity, and evidence from the past suggests that charities suffer significantly when the economy suffers.
Just as a simplistic example. If my weekly food bill goes up by £5, then one of the first economies I might make may well be to reduce my donations to the foodbank. But it's a far bigger and more complex issue than this. If more people are moving into poverty, how does that help those already below them?

If the £5 weekly food bill does go up, I'm sure they'll cope especially if more work opportunities exist, the £5 or £10 is small beer in the grand scheme of things, finding work to enable a lifestyle to enhance is probably the 1st step the rest will naturally follow.

[Jakubclaret]

I suggest you do a bit of research on countries like Haiti, North Korea, or DR Congo, and have a re-think on where “rock bottom” really is.

I know other countries are worse off, doesn't detract from the issue in hand, just because "haiti north korea or DR congo" to name a few are more rock bottom doesn't really assist the situation domestically.

[Greenmile]

I know other countries are worse off, doesn't detract from the issue in hand, just because "haiti north korea or DR congo" to name a few are more rock bottom doesn't really assist the situation domestically.

You can’t have “more rock bottom”, or if you can, your argument that things can’t get any worse for the folk at the bottom falls apart at the seams.

You still seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that Brexit will lead to more jobs and better pay for low skilled Brits - this has been repeatedly debunked, but you’re not listening, are you?

[Lancasterclaret]

Peter Hitchens v good on Brexit yesterday btw

I've got a twitter link, but that doesn't count apparently.

[Jakubclaret]

You can’t have “more rock bottom”, or if you can, your argument that things can’t get any worse for the folk at the bottom falls apart at the seams.

You still seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that Brexit will lead to more jobs and better pay for low skilled Brits - this has been repeatedly debunked, but you’re not listening, are you?

The only thing holding us back is immigration more to the point the inability to control the numbers.

[Greenmile]

The only thing holding us back is immigration more to the point the inability to control the numbers.

...and big business telling the government they aren’t allowed to increase the minimum wage, remember?

The same big business which will tell the government not to cut off their supply of cheap imported labour.

Edit - I don’t know why you don’t just admit you don’t like immigration for cultural reasons (ie xenophobia). It’s a much easier position to defend than this nonsense about sticking up for unskilled British workers.

[nil_desperandum]

If the £5 weekly food bill does go up, I'm sure they'll cope especially if more work opportunities exist, the £5 or £10 is small beer in the grand scheme of things, finding work to enable a lifestyle to enhance is probably the 1st step the rest will naturally follow.

Not sure based on that post that you understand the point.
I didn't refer to a £5 food bill, I was trying to say that a weekly price rise of say £5, which might be small beer to some, could be the difference between eating properly and not in some cases. There are already people who have to rely on food banks, and even a small rise in basic foods will inevitably bring a further group into that category.
It's simply not true to say that things can't get worse for the poorest.
Who will feel it most if the price of an essential food (e.g.bread and milk) rises, someone on the poverty line or Jacob Rees Mogg?

[nil_desperandum]

The only thing holding us back is immigration more to the point the inability to control the numbers.

Something you've been told repeatedly the government has always had the power to do if said immigrants are not contributing positively to the economy. But successive governments have chosen not to. So why would policy change after brexit?. This policy is nothing to do with Brussels or the ECJ.

[Jakubclaret]

...and big business telling the government they aren’t allowed to increase the minimum wage, remember?

The same big business which will tell the government not to cut off their supply of cheap imported labour.

Edit - I don’t know why you don’t just admit you don’t like immigration for cultural reasons (ie xenophobia). It’s a much easier position to defend than this nonsense about sticking up for unskilled British workers.

That's not true, I'm against your kind because all you are interested in doing is exploiting cheap labour & anybody who questions it are xenophobic.

[Greenmile]

Something you've been told repeatedly the government has always had the power to do if said immigrants are not contributing positively to the economy. But successive governments have chosen not to. So why would policy change after brexit?. This policy is nothing to do with Brussels or the ECJ.

Not to mention that any trade deal we strike to replace the ones we already have via the EU are likely to entail us offering work visas to their citizens, so leaving the EU will probably end up increasing immigration into this country, unless it makes us a much less enticing country to immigrate to, which won’t do much for those at the bottom, as you’ve already tried to explain.

[Greenmile]

That's not true, I'm against your kind because all you are interested in doing is exploiting cheap labour & anybody who questions it are xenophobic.

I don’t exploit cheap labour. Why do you think I do?

I’m just trying to explain to you that immigration will continue at current levels (or higher - see my post above) irrespective of Brexit. What part of that don’t you understand?

[Lancasterclaret]

All of it clearly!

[Pstotto]

England was a country of economic growth without immigration till 1945 more or less. We don't need immigration we need repatriation and 10 million less foreigners to think about, feed and imprison and dumb down and destroy our English heritage and culture for, etc.

We don't need diversity. Great Harwood is enough.

[aggi]

Brexiteers ( tory and labour) that voted it down did so because they see it as brexit in name only. Given they stood on a manifesto that pledged to leave the European Union . Voted to trigger article 50 and enshrine leaving the EU on March 29th into law. They are, in my view being consistent and honourable.

Remoaner ( tory and labour) that voted it down, were being opportunistic and doing what they've down throughout the negotiations. Going back on the manifesto pledges on which they were elected. And despite the vast majority of MPs ( tory and labour) voting to trigger article 50, they're clearly wanting to thwart, undermine and in most cases stop the uk ever leaving the EU. They are in my view duplicitous, dishonourable and helping to ferment a deep, long term, even permanent, mistrust of politicians, parliament and democracy itself.

I struggle to understand your position on this still. You've repeatedly said that the referendum was just "Do we leave the EU" with no detail as to how we leave as a justification for no deal. Equally though, May's deal is undeniably leaving the EU and fulfils the referendum question but doesn't count somehow.

As for the politicians who agree with you being honourable and those who don't being dishonourable, it's pretty one-eyed (and isn't consistent with your The referendum was a yes/no question stance) and doesn't explain why you are happy with Brexiteers blocking us leaving the EU.

[Pstotto]

We didn't vote for Remainer May's Brexit we voted to leave the EU No Deal.

[Greenmile]

We didn't vote for Remainer May's Brexit we voted to leave the EU No Deal.

Who’s “we”? You and the voices in your head?

[jrgbfc]

One thing that's bugging me recently is the way all the Brexiteers are talking as though they won with a massive majority so they have the right to hold the country to ransom. Newsflash, you won with a tiny majority and i'd say the country is pretty much split 50-50 now.

[Pstotto]

... And let's Hope Nissan do leave the UK. The Duke is the silliest car ever to be produced in this country.

[aggi]

One thing that's bugging me recently is the way all the Brexiteers are talking as though they won with a massive majority so they have the right to hold the country to ransom. Newsflash, you won with a tiny majority and i'd say the country is pretty much split 50-50 now.

This has been the problem since day one. The Tory Party, and particularly the ERG within it, seem to view this slim majority as the whole country wanting a hard Brexit. Party politics has over-ruled the interests of the country for years.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

One thing that's bugging me recently is the way all the Brexiteers are talking as though they won with a massive majority so they have the right to hold the country to ransom. Newsflash, you won with a tiny majority and i'd say the country is pretty much split 50-50 now.

So it doesn't bug you that since the result was announced various remainers have done everything they can to undermine the result with court cases, tantrums, parliamentary voting, calling brexiteers stupid etc?

It's all led to the country being on the verge of a no deal because we've had to have a GE in the meantime, threats of another, no confidence votes by parliament and the Tory party itself.
Yeah, great, cheers for that one remainers.

[jrgbfc]

So it doesn't bug you that since the result was announced various remainers have done everything they can to undermine the result with court cases, tantrums, parliamentary voting, calling brexiteers stupid etc?

It's all led to the country being on the verge of a no deal because we've had to have a GE in the meantime, threats of another, no confidence votes by parliament and the Tory party itself.
Yeah, great, cheers for that one remainers.

I accept that the result of the referendum has to stand. But if Theresa May and her party had shown a degree of competence then I think it's a situation that could have been sorted. Fact is she's bent over backwards to try and appease a dinosaur like JRM says it all really.

[Greenmile]

So it doesn't bug you that since the result was announced various remainers have done everything they can to undermine the result with court cases, tantrums, parliamentary voting, calling brexiteers stupid etc?

It's all led to the country being on the verge of a no deal because we've had to have a GE in the meantime, threats of another, no confidence votes by parliament and the Tory party itself.
Yeah, great, cheers for that one remainers.

That’s right snowflake, it’s all the remainers’ fault. If we hadn’t called brexiters stupid and hurt their feelings, we’d all have a backyard full of unicorns by now.

[Lancasterclaret]

That utter bilge Sidney.

Its repeating the lowest level of debate about this to put it mildly.

We only move on from this when Brexiteers understand that wanting a Unicorn based deal and not getting it is the fault of the people who promised such a deal, not remainers, not the EU, not anyone else, but them.

[aggi]

So it doesn't bug you that since the result was announced various remainers have done everything they can to undermine the result with court cases, tantrums, parliamentary voting, calling brexiteers stupid etc?

It's all led to the country being on the verge of a no deal because we've had to have a GE in the meantime, threats of another, no confidence votes by parliament and the Tory party itself.
Yeah, great, cheers for that one remainers.

Our representatives having votes in parliament (and court cases to ensure the laws of the land are followed rather than Parliament being ignored). The bastards.

If only we'd let DFDS Liam Fox have his head then the free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history.

(Also, wasn't it Brexiteers who drove the no confidence vote in May?)

[nil_desperandum]

So it doesn't bug you that since the result was announced various remainers have done everything they can to undermine the result with court cases,.

The chief court case that you are referring to (I assume the Miller case), in reality had v little to do with brexit. It was to test out the sovereignty of parliament and uphold our democracy, something for which in the future we might all be v grateful. [Tories, and in fact most of the country, would justifiably be outraged if Corbyn tried to bypass Parliament in the way May was seeking to do].
The ruling was always going to go against the government, otherwise we would have been on the road to a dictatorship, but May chose to fight and appeal it, which in itself set the brexit process back by months.

[aggi]

Anyway, back to actual events. This was pretty amusing from Sajid Javid giving evidence to the Commons Home Affairs re: whether the Government is supporting the Costa amendment

https://twitter.com/Nicholas_Mairs/stat ... 1202666496" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SM: "What’s wrong with the amendment?"
SJ: "Nothing”
SM "So is the Government supporting it then?"
SJ: “Yes, what do you mean now? When was the government not supporting it? Where did you hear that?”
SM: "Yesterday"
SJ: “From who?”
SM: "The Prime Minister"
SJ "Did you…"

[Lowbankclaret]

SNP are also tabling an amendment to stop a No Deal Brexit for ever later today.

That will be interesting!

[Imploding Turtle]

So it doesn't bug you that since the result was announced various remainers have done everything they can to undermine the result with court cases, tantrums, parliamentary voting, calling brexiteers stupid etc?

It's all led to the country being on the verge of a no deal because we've had to have a GE in the meantime, threats of another, no confidence votes by parliament and the Tory party itself.
Yeah, great, cheers for that one remainers.

What court cases have undermined the result?

[Jakubclaret]

I don’t exploit cheap labour. Why do you think I do?

I’m just trying to explain to you that immigration will continue at current levels (or higher - see my post above) irrespective of Brexit. What part of that don’t you understand?

Because when immigration gets mentioned you jump on the xenophobia soapbox, it's a default defensive stance, Q1 answered, even if you don't agree, & immigration has already plummeted post referendum due to the pound, & the trade deals which are likely to be clinched (outside of eu) are more likely to be skilled work which can only be filled by a smaller selective workforce & not just any old EU worker, Q2 answered even if you don't agree, I'm doing it this way to avoid the same repetitive questions & also remembering questions & answers, someone has to!

[JohnMcGreal]

calling brexiteers stupid etc?

Why are so many leave voters so paranoid about being called stupid? I hardly ever hear or see anyone call leave voters stupid, but I constantly hear and see leave voters talking about how everyone else thinks they’re stupid.