JohnMcGreal wrote:Was he wrong when he said that most racists and anti-Semites probably voted to leave?
I gather that yourself and Crosspool found his comments offensive, as Francois did, but is that claim an incorrect one?
I didn't even think it was remotely controversial to say that the majority of racists out there most probably voted to leave.
I did say I was offended, but I suppose I wasn’t. I don’t tend to take offence with former heroin addicts and people like that, I’d be permenantly in offence if I did. It was sad, that’s all.
It was also factually incorrect. He did say “all” before reversing back a bit. There are high profile Labour MPs accused of antisemitism (I won’t name them obviously) who we know voted Remain. We all know Labour is the party with the bigger antisemite problem (Self highlighted racists AND antisemites). We all know Labour mainly voted to stay in the EU as a popular vote (though most Labour constituencies voted to leave). Logic would say that racist and antisemite views are not a factor (though judgement on the impact migrants have on communities and wages IS a legitimate factor but not a racial one).
The disappointing thing is that most on the liberal left cannot see why comments like those are unacceptable, so used are they to bitter sweeping statements about everybody more socially conservative (totally ignoring that most traditional blue collar workers tend to be socially conservative whilst being economically socialist).
CombatClaret wrote:I would argue the logical course of action, as you point out is for fWestminster to properly address it. In this too you accept that it is completely within our power but we chose not to and rather pass the buck.
I also agree that Westminster should do more and some tinkering was possible whilst staying in the EU. I feel that some of the current bunch of Tory Remainers have an ethos which is to drive down the costs of production as much as possible and push up profits (Osborne, Hammond etc). This is very wrong. Leaving the EU is though a necessary first step because the whole political culture needs to change, including the civil service, who are besotted with the EU way of doing things. Replacing our politicians is a necessary second step.
Slow thinkers like Self think this is all about nationalism, but it is actually about patriotism. Take WW2 as an example of one versus the other. Patriots identify with their country and value it. They have love and respect (including for the enemy). Nationalism is about fear and hate. Brexiteers feel our value of this spot of earth beneath our feet is being eroded because we are losing our sense of patriotism and community. That’s why, yes, we can control migration to a point, but that doesn’t solve the issue.
George Orwell wrote a famous essay on this stuff while Hitler was waging war on us, it was called The Lion and The Unicorn : Socialism and the English Genius.
