Brexit: The Naked Truth

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# 1
Steve1956
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Re: The Labour Party

Postby Steve1956 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:20 pm

I wouldn't vote for Corbyn if he was the only candidate .....the biggest chancer British politics has ever seen,one day he will fall off that fence he continually sits on

# 2
Imploding Turtle
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Imploding Turtle » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:22 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:How the hell do you compromise on a deal that was utterly shite to begin with...
...


I'm going to cut you off here. I was referring to the string of red lines that we had that made any deal impossible.

No ECJ jurisdiction, no EU regulations, no financial contribution, no free movement. We were not being reasonable and we deserve this embarrassment.
Last edited by Imploding Turtle on Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Greenmile
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Greenmile » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:22 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:...May has painted herself, and Britain into a corner by trying to appease everybody Remainers, Leavers and the EU. That was never going to be possible, never. If she had comprehended from the beginning that some people were going to spit their dummies whatever, she should have been prepared to go ahead anyway and let them spit...


Agree with this 100%.

(The rest of your post, not so much)

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Re: The Labour Party

Postby SammyBoy » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:22 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Labour party is slowly dieing any way.


Have sure heard that a lot over the years.

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CombatClaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby CombatClaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:23 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:There isn't any position in Parliament that would achieve 51% support


Like the leave vote if it was broken down into the mutually exclusive options touted?
Last edited by CombatClaret on Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby ZizkovClaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:23 pm

Honestly i think we now remain.
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Re: The Labour Party

Postby Colburn_Claret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:24 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:So now expressing an opinion is disgraceful. Thank you for that, Adolf.

Have you not yet seen the video of Comrade Corbyn preaching to The Irish, before their second vote on joining the EU, on how undemocratic the EU is and how they should fight tooth and nail to stay out.......... Only if it means scoring points against the Tories what do beliefs matter.
Just one of many reasons I won't vote for the hypocritical *******. Labour strongholds had some of the highest returns for Brexit, but who gives a **** what your supporters want.
If you can't see the irony in that Trevor you are missing something.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Colburn_Claret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:28 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'm going to cut you off here. I was referring to the string of red lines that we had that made any deal impossible.

No ECJ jurisdiction, no EU regulations, no financial contribution, no free movement. We were not being reasonable and we deserve this embarrassment.

I don't see where you are coming from, honestly. Those red lines you state were and still should be, non negotiable. Without those red lines there is no Brexit, just a watered down membership. That isn't compromise but capitulation.

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Lancasterclaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:31 pm

Interesting one

Remain actually suits the DUP

Just possible that the actions of the ERG have finally pushed enough Con MPs to vote against leaving.

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Billy Balfour
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Billy Balfour » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:35 pm

Since when did 52% to 48% become a landslide and mandate for the hardest Brexit possible. No deal should not even be an option under any circumstances.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:36 pm

If the ERG and the DUP vote for the deal, then it might pass. But it will only take 2 or 3 votes and it will fail

NO DEAL has completely gone btw

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Imploding Turtle » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:37 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:Since when did 52% to 48% become a landslide and mandate for the hardest Brexit possible. No deal should not even be an option under any circumstances.



It's ******* ridiculous. But funny too.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby ZizkovClaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:40 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:Since when did 52% to 48% become a landslide and mandate for the hardest Brexit possible. No deal should not even be an option under any circumstances.


52% Voted for a brexit which barely resembles even the "best case" scenario now on the table. We need another vote, this time far more well informed.
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CombatClaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby CombatClaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:46 pm

"ERG MPs starting to indicate they will vote for the deal at MV3"
- BuzzFeed political correspondent

So take with a pinch of salt. But if it's the only Brexit on offer I could see it. They'll know delay to A50 risks it all, GE & 2nd Ref.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:52 pm

Well, if Andy is correct, even their votes + the DUP might not be enough.

17 Conservative MPs voted against the Government tonight. All it takes is one or two and Mays deal is sunk as well.

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Re: The Labour Party

Postby Quickenthetempo » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:54 pm

SammyBoy wrote:Have sure heard that a lot over the years.

That's why I said slowly. Been going on years but it's worse than ever now. Divided about everything.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:56 pm

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/11 ... 6764271622

Cracking speech from Jess Philips btw
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Re: The Labour Party

Postby mkmel » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:57 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Labour party is slowly dieing any way.


Be thankful that the Tories are doing such a great job with Brexit

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Quickenthetempo » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:57 pm

Get a general election going so we can vote more Brexiteer MPs in.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Bacchus » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:58 pm

I still think May's deal has a chance. She'll give it one last go, presented as Deal vs Revoke A50 on the basis that Parliament rejects No Deal and an extension will achieve nothing (if the EU even allows it.)
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bobinho
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Re: The Labour Party

Postby bobinho » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:58 pm

One word......

Diane Abbott.

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Re: The Labour Party

Postby Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:59 pm

Any of you lot bothered to check what Lab MPs and members voted for and have been consistently polled on?

Honestly, the way you lot are kicking off about Labour not representing you is ridiculous.

Does Farage give a **** about Burnley? Or the working man?

Come on lads, think about it

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CrosspoolClarets
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby CrosspoolClarets » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:59 pm

I suspect the way it will go now is:

1. May deal fails.
2. Extend A50 by 12 months
3. May resigns.
4. New Tory leader, harder line on Brexit
5. General Election with clear Leave / Remain split between Tories and Labour
6. Tories win a landslide
7. Renegotiate WA with EU, this time with a different Parliament(s)
8. We leave, probably with a deal not dissimilar to May’s deal.

That’s my guess.
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Re: The Labour Party

Postby Quickenthetempo » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:59 pm

mkmel wrote:Be thankful that the Tories are doing such a great job with Brexit

Where's the sarcasm smiley?

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Re: The Labour Party

Postby Quickenthetempo » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:02 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Any of you lot bothered to check what Lab MPs and members voted for and have been consistently polled on?

Honestly, the way you lot are kicking off about Labour not representing you is ridiculous.

Does Farage give a **** about Burnley? Or the working man?

Come on lads, think about it

No MP does, they're all career MPs with snouts in the trough.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:02 pm

Why don't we just cut out 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and just vote through 8?

Seems a lot simpler if you want Brexit, and does also mean I don't get to laugh at the idea that their will be a clear remain/leave split and that by definition, leave would win by a landslide.

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Spijed
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Re: The Labour Party

Postby Spijed » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:02 pm

Meanwhile Boris Johnson thinks investigating historical child abuse is a complete waste of time.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47560192

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ClaretAndJew
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby ClaretAndJew » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:04 pm

Bring out yer dead!
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fanzone
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Re: The Labour Party

Postby fanzone » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:08 pm

Spijed wrote:Meanwhile Boris Johnson thinks investigating historical child abuse is a complete waste of time.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47560192


A blind man on a galloping horse can see he's a two hat

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Foulthrow
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Re: The Labour Party

Postby Foulthrow » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:14 pm

bobinho wrote:One word......

Diane Abbott.


That’s two.

Worse maths than Diane ;)

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby AlargeClaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:20 pm

Nobody think there’s will be a “ minute to go”type deal cut with the EU? which eventually satisfies the wavering Tories ? ERG seemed to be making noises that her deal is better than a long hold up

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:21 pm

Steve Baker, the Tory Brexiter and deputy chair of the European Research Group....

"I’ll say to the government now, when meaningful vote three comes back, I will see to it that we keep voting this down however many times it’s brought back, whatever pressure we’re put under and come what may. Please don’t do it. Keep going back to the EU and say, ‘It wont pass.’"

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Re: The Labour Party

Postby Clarets4me » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:31 pm

Spijed wrote:Meanwhile Boris Johnson thinks investigating historical child abuse is a complete waste of time.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47560192


Shocking ! He needs to be brought to account ! In addition, I'd like to see a thorough enquiry, into other historical sex-offences, such as importuning vulnerable young men/boys in public toilets by powerful public figures such as MP's and senior Civil Servants ...

Recently, Peter Morrison, the late MP for City of Chester has again been named, long after his death accused of worse offences, as has my late Politics Tutor at Reading University, Prof. Peter Campbell. Allegedly in the early 1980's, someone called " Charlie Lynton " was fined at Marylebone magistrates court, for a similar offence, and, according to rumour, the full details were made subject to a Govt " D " Notice, prohibiting the reporting of the case.

The Home Office were responsible for many of these historical cover-ups, and perhaps it is now time to have a full enquiry into such matters, allowing retired Police Officers to speak freely, about any incidents they were ordered to conveniently " forget " , and those culprits made to answer for their actions.

I think I'll write to Lancashire's Labour " Police & Crime " Commissioner suggesting it ...

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Damo » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:40 pm

Not sure why anyone thinks no deal is not an option (well I do, but...) the EU have said there are two options. Leave with a deal or without one.
It seems more MP's are against May's deal than no deal as it stands

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby levraiclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:40 pm

On tonight's vote on "no deal brexit" the pound is up by 1.60% against the Euro, 1.80% against the Japanese yen and 1.90% against the dollar which indicates the markets view of the impact of a "no deal brexit" on the British economy.
Why are so many brexiteers promoting it? Do they have no concern for the British population?
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CrosspoolClarets
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby CrosspoolClarets » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:00 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Why don't we just cut out 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and just vote through 8?

Seems a lot simpler if you want Brexit, and does also mean I don't get to laugh at the idea that their will be a clear remain/leave split and that by definition, leave would win by a landslide.


I agree as I have said before. I would vote for her deal though do occasionally change my mind.

My 1-8 list is my prediction, not my choice. I actually think the country would benefit from a dose of Corbynomics. All the vibes I am getting though is extreme anger from people I talk to, and the vast majority of marginal seats voted Leave. It feels the election will happen sometime in the summer.

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Billy Balfour
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Billy Balfour » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:06 pm

I've not seen much anger, apart from those who feel their livelihoods are under threat. What I do find is that most people are bored shitless with the whole shebang.

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SmudgetheClaret
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby SmudgetheClaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:17 pm

There's no flies on Nigel Farage he's just been interviewed and he's got Italy's Salvini and Hungary's Orbans ear it only takes one member state to veto the A50 extension and that's us out on no deal on the 29th ...

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dsr
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby dsr » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:17 pm

claret_in_exile wrote:Theresa May just spent two years saying (rightfully) that "no deal" would be a catastrophe!

You couldn't make it up.

She spent the last two years saying "No deal is better than a bad deal". I think you did just make it up. :)
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:20 pm

Crosspool, I've asked you this before, but who are you talking to?

Bored shitless is the main thing here as Billy says. "Bored shitless" means they just want it over, which means by definition "remain"

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dsr
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby dsr » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:24 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Ayes 321 No 278 - Govt loses on its own motion, Parliament says we can never leave the EU unless there is a deal

I have no idea what that means legally, but that is the result of that vote.

Back to trying to find out what is going on!

This vote, I believe, doesn't mean any more than if they had voted to make the rain stop.

The law that says we leave the EU on 29th March is still in place. The government has been ordered to either sign a deal or to negotiate an extension, but that is meaningless because Parliament cannot pass a law binding the EU to sign a deal. Even Parliament hasn't (quite) been stupid enough to vote to give the EU literally anything they ask for.

If they want to absolutely prevent no deal, they have to vote to repeal the Article 50 law, or else to pass a counter-law that withdraws the notice to the EU; and then they have to hope that either the EU accepts the withdrawal, or that the UK wins the legal shenanigans that would inevitably follow.

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aggi
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby aggi » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:29 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I agree as I have said before. I would vote for her deal though do occasionally change my mind.

My 1-8 list is my prediction, not my choice. I actually think the country would benefit from a dose of Corbynomics. All the vibes I am getting though is extreme anger from people I talk to, and the vast majority of marginal seats voted Leave. It feels the election will happen sometime in the summer.


The only people I've talked to who are angry are those who voted remain and are worried about No Deal.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:30 pm

Which is the next steps

Govt haven't got any control anymore, so amendments will be passed which at this moment can mean anything.

But to dismiss it as "voting against the rain" is silly. You know as well as I do this means that Parliament will stop a "No Deal".

That doesn't mean they will revoke article 50, but they will certainly look at all the options, which will include that.

No way we leave with "No Deal" now either way
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby aggi » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:31 pm

dsr wrote:This vote, I believe, doesn't mean any more than if they had voted to make the rain stop.

If they want to absolutely prevent no deal, they have to vote to repeal the Article 50 law, or else to pass a counter-law that withdraws the notice to the EU; and then they have to hope that either the EU accepts the withdrawal, or that the UK wins the legal shenanigans that would inevitably follow.


The legal shenanigans have already happened. We can repeal it if we want

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dsr
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby dsr » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:33 pm

Will we get an extension? I find it hard to imagine that the EU wants the UK to vote in the Euro elections. Because the 50% or so of the voters who want Brexit, will probably vote for any party that wants Brexit, and will probably turn out in greater numbers than the traditional Tory/Labour voters who have always been indifferent to the EU elections. Do the EU want to risk a bloc of up to 40 anti-EU members who don't want to be there, disrupting everything? The nationalists (anti-EU parties) in other countries may make gains too. The EU doesn't want to risk too many anti-EU members.

The EU has succeeded in its aim of making leaving the EU look like an impossible task, and I suspect they recognise that relations have soured to the extent that inviting us back in will only store up trouble for the future.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby dsr » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:34 pm

aggi wrote:The legal shenanigans have already happened. We can repeal it if we want

Has the ECJ given a definitive ruling? I thought they wouldn't do that until an actual case was brought?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Rick_Muller » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:35 pm


# 48
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Postby Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:37 pm

Definite ruling dsr

I find it surprising that you don't know that.

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Tricky Trevor
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Re: The Labour Party

Postby Tricky Trevor » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:40 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:Have you not yet seen the video of Comrade Corbyn preaching to The Irish, before their second vote on joining the EU, on how undemocratic the EU is and how they should fight tooth and nail to stay out.......... Only if it means scoring points against the Tories what do beliefs matter.
Just one of many reasons I won't vote for the hypocritical *******. Labour strongholds had some of the highest returns for Brexit, but who gives a **** what your supporters want.
If you can't see the irony in that Trevor you are missing something.

You are totally missing the point. They are elected representatives just because they don't agree with their constituents are they supposed to sit dumb.
I'm no fan of Corbyn, his extreme left wing madness is behind his distaste for the EU. Putin wants to break up the EU so he can claim all the former territories back and Jeremy is in his pocket.
Anyway you’ve jumped straight on Corbyn has anybody said he cheered?

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Pearcey
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Re: The Labour Party

Postby Pearcey » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:41 pm

What I’d give for another series of Spitting Image! They’d have a field day with the berks that sit in the commons today. There are no electable parties for me. Awful!!


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