Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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dsr
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:43 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Definite ruling dsr

I find it surprising that you don't know that.
Can't know everything.

In that case, Parliament can order the revocation of Article 50 and then immediately repeat it, if they so wish. With threats to carry on doing it every few months until they get so sick of us they offer a genuine, fair deal?

(No, I know it won't happen! But the threat to revoke Article 50 would probably be useful threat to hold over the EU when they try and exact a price for an extension to it.)

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:45 pm

dsr wrote:Can't know everything.

In that case, Parliament can order the revocation of Article 50 and then immediately repeat it, if they so wish. With threats to carry on doing it every few months until they get so sick of us they offer a genuine, fair deal?

(No, I know it won't happen! But the threat to revoke Article 50 would probably be useful threat to hold over the EU when they try and exact a price for an extension to it.)
Yep. We’re certainly holding all the cards. Time to make Britain great again.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:47 pm

Not sure thats possible (but thats a legal thing!)

All I know for sure is that I just don't see how "No Deal" happens.

And I've got this awful feeling that Mays shenanigans with amendments and the utter bellends in the ERG have driven enough Conservatives to the other side so that Mays deal doesn't go through at all.

Who knows?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Cubanclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:49 pm

Sorry to go back to basics but I’m yet to hear anyone articulate a convincing argument of what benefits they think people will experience after Brexit. It staggers me that folks have been lured into becoming borderline obsessive about something that is still a notional concept and such an absolute waste of time that must be costing so much money from the public purse in the long term. Moreover, how can anyone trust our contemptuous parliamentarians to ‘take back control’ when they are so clearly demonstrating their collective self-serving ineptitude on a daily basis. At least we’re not living in Venezuela and the lights still turn on. For now.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:51 pm

I don't think it matters now.

There isn't an economic case for it.

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by IanMcL » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:51 pm

The votes tonight demonstrate that there is no way that Parliament will vote us out and no way, it will agree to any short change deal.

Now that we all know more, it is clear that the alleged advantages in leaving are not what was suggested and that the proposed deal is a lot worse than being a full, voting member.

Time for another referendum, followed by a General Election.

Referendum choice:
No Deal versus Continue Membership

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:02 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Not sure thats possible (but thats a legal thing!)

All I know for sure is that I just don't see how "No Deal" happens.

And I've got this awful feeling that Mays shenanigans with amendments and the utter bellends in the ERG have driven enough Conservatives to the other side so that Mays deal doesn't go through at all.

Who knows?
I hope you're right. It's an awful deal.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:03 pm

It is, but its a compromise.

Sometimes soon a lot of people who think like you are going to have to decide - This deal or No Brexit

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:12 pm

I’m on a Remain group on Facebook called 48%, and the mostly LibDem members usually attack Corbyn as “the Tory Brexit enabler” :) The fella can never win (except with elections) :)

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:18 pm

Which election has he won?

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Guppyspotter » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:20 pm

Turkeys voting for Xmas.
Last edited by Guppyspotter on Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Guppyspotter » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:20 pm

52% of Turkeys voting for Xmas.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:25 pm

Listening to Peston and the ERG members on there.

No chance they would vote for Mays deal under any circumstances.

If Parliament doesn't take control of the process asap, I'll be amazed.

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Stayingup » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:26 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Any of you lot bothered to check what Lab MPs and members voted for and have been consistently polled on?

Honestly, the way you lot are kicking off about Labour not representing you is ridiculous.

Does Farage give a **** about Burnley? Or the working man?

Come on lads, think about it
Come in get real. Does Corbyn give a **** about Burnley. No. Not many metropolitan millionaire Labour voters in Burnley. Do you care about Burnley seeing as you appear to be from Lancaster? Corbyn is a Marxit, dim, idiot. Julie is not. Shes just superb? Do you know to whom I am referring?

Corbyn cajoled by Kier Starmer has just let down many Labour voters in the Midlands and North and how on earth you can saý otherwise is beyond belief. Labour will pay the price in the next election. Just hope Julie remains.
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by South West Claret. » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:27 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Which election has he won?
Wasn’t it the one that elected him as leader?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:27 pm

Steve Baker also saying that they won't let the leave date or result be changed by law.

Nice to see that his democratic ideals are actually not that democratic when he's not getting his own way.

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:27 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Which election has he won?
He’s been an MP since the early eighties, so I’d guess around nine.

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:32 pm

[Come in get real. Does Corbyn give a **** about Burnley. No. Not many metropolitan millionaire Labour voters in Burnley. Do you seeing as you appear to be from Lancaster? Corbyn is a Marxit dim idiot. Julie is not. Shes just superb? Do you know to whom I am referring?
No idea, but he gives a **** more about workers than Farage does, which is my point. I don't like him at all, but he's a better bet for Burnley than Farage is.

And of course I care, why wouldn't I?

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:33 pm

He’s been an MP since the early eighties, so I’d guess around nine.
Diane Abbot wins elections in London. A donkey would win elections in london as long as its got a red rosette on it.

How many elections has he won as leader of the Labour party to become Prime Minister?

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by SmudgetheClaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:36 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote::lol:

That's why they are polling at 20% :lol: :lol:

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Jakubclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:37 pm

The first sign of madness is when you talk to yourself.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:38 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Steve Baker also saying that they won't let the leave date or result be changed by law.

Nice to see that his democratic ideals are actually not that democratic when he's not getting his own way.
Did he say how he was going to stop it?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:40 pm

No, he didn't go into detail, which suggests its will be some sort of filibustering.

Or he could just be full of **** again.

And it has to be said, these guys clearly are not that bothered about democracy if its not going their way, so it could be anything.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:41 pm

Other big thing to come out of Peston was Labour clearly not wanting a 2nd ref.

Which does suggest the will for Brexit across the house is there, but can they come to an agreement what that is?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by SmudgetheClaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:47 pm

I've been predicting this for the UK well done remainers..
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:55 pm

Its not exactly news that you are a fan of far right European Parties is it?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:58 pm

SmudgetheClaret wrote:There's no flies on Nigel Farage he's just been interviewed and he's got Italy's Salvini and Hungary's Orbans ear it only takes one member state to veto the A50 extension and that's us out on no deal on the 29th ...
I don't think the EU will allow an extension just because we don't have our act together. They've said they'll agree to an extension if the UK's position has substantially changed (so if we'd like to stay in the customs union and or single market), or if we've set in motion a general election or second referendum. If we've taken one of these steps, I doubt Farage's influence will sway a country to break ranks, as it won't be in either Italy's or Hungary's best interests to "force" a no-deal situation when the UK government and the EU want to take steps to avoid this. Were this to happen the UK government could revoke Article 50 and achieve the same result.

I can't see May's deal being passed if it comes back, and because parliament has come out resoundingly against a no-deal exit, and the time is so nearly up that parliament won't even have time to put through the necessary legislation to bring back EU law into UK law (so we have no choice but to extend) then a general election or second referendum seem to be the only choices open to us. Of those two, I think the government will choose a second referendum.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by SmudgetheClaret » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:58 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its not exactly news that you are a fan of far right European Parties is it?
Nor you of hard left cultural Marxism ..

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:01 am

SmudgetheClaret wrote:Nor you of hard left cultural Marxism ..
He’s always promoting hard left cultural Marxism is Lancaster. He’s got you bang to rights there! :lol:
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by COBBLE » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:02 am

Closer to home. How did the Burnley MP Julie Cooper vote? What are the views of the leader of the Burnley Council who is standing for re-election as a councillor in May?

Leave or Remain?

Time for some openness.

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by South West Claret. » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:03 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Diane Abbot wins elections in London. A donkey would win elections in london as long as its got a red rosette on it.

How many elections has he won as leader of the Labour party to become Prime Minister?
You ask a question then you get the correct answer then you ask another question that you already know the answer too...have you been drinking heavily? :D

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by martin_p » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:05 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Diane Abbot wins elections in London. A donkey would win elections in london as long as its got a red rosette on it.

How many elections has he won as leader of the Labour party to become Prime Minister?
If you define winning an election as getting a majority rather than just the most seats the the answer is the same as the current Prime Minister.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by nil_desperandum » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:05 am

dsr wrote:Will we get an extension? I find it hard to imagine that the EU wants the UK to vote in the Euro elections. Because the 50% or so of the voters who want Brexit, will probably vote for any party that wants Brexit, and will probably turn out in greater numbers than the traditional Tory/Labour voters who have always been indifferent to the EU elections..
But obviously the EU elections will take on massive significance this time (if we are still in), since effectively this will probably be the only "People's Vote" on the EU issue.
Don't forget it's not FPTP and I expect remainers turn out in force if it's the only chance they get.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:33 am

Did we call the referendum the people's vote or did that become the popular term when remain lost?

Honestly can't remember...

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:34 am

nil_desperandum wrote:But obviously the EU elections will take on massive significance this time (if we are still in), since effectively this will probably be the only "People's Vote" on the EU issue.
Don't forget it's not FPTP and I expect remainers turn out in force if it's the only chance they get.
Time may tell. I suspect there are a lot more fanatical Brexiters than fanatical Remainers - after all, there can't be many people left who think the EU is a wonderful organisation that we would love to be in. It might depend whether Brexiters turn out in force for this second "people's vote" (I think perhaps you forgot about the one in 2016?) or whether they have given up in disgust. But unlike future general elections, there will be genuine pro-Brexit parties to vote for, and there will be a golden opportunity to vote for them in an election where (rightly or wrongly) many people see all votes, for whichever party, to be a wasted vote.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:36 am

dsr wrote:Can't know everything.

In that case, Parliament can order the revocation of Article 50 and then immediately repeat it, if they so wish. With threats to carry on doing it every few months until they get so sick of us they offer a genuine, fair deal?

(No, I know it won't happen! But the threat to revoke Article 50 would probably be useful threat to hold over the EU when they try and exact a price for an extension to it.)
I can't remember the exact phrasing but the judgement was phrased to prevent that.

Although I think we would be able to revoke it, have a second referendum, leave win, invoke it again and start afresh with two years. It's got to be a new phase of play.,
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:48 am

Stayingup wrote:Come in get real. Does Corbyn give a **** about Burnley. No. Not many metropolitan millionaire Labour voters in Burnley. Do you care about Burnley seeing as you appear to be from Lancaster? Corbyn is a Marxit, dim, idiot. Julie is not. Shes just superb? Do you know to whom I am referring?

Corbyn cajoled by Kier Starmer has just let down many Labour voters in the Midlands and North and how on earth you can saý otherwise is beyond belief. Labour will pay the price in the next election. Just hope Julie remains.
Is all of this your opinion, or are you just rewriting someone elses opinion?

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Clarets4me » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:52 am

COBBLE wrote:Closer to home. How did the Burnley MP Julie Cooper vote? What are the views of the leader of the Burnley Council who is standing for re-election as a councillor in May? Leave or Remain?
Time for some openness.
Mrs Cooper voted against Mrs May's deal, and then voted twice against " No Deal " .... She has asked more Questions in Parliament about the India/Pakistan partion of the disputed Kashmir region ,than she has about " Brexit, which shows where her core voter base lies ...

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by bobinho » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:20 am

COBBLE wrote:Closer to home. How did the Burnley MP Julie Cooper vote? What are the views of the leader of the Burnley Council who is standing for re-election as a councillor in May?

Leave or Remain?

Time for some openness.
I have been keeping an eye on this. Every vote from cooper is what you’d expect from someone who is a remoaner. Shameful really, when you consider how her constituents voted in the referendum.

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by bobinho » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:53 am

Foulthrow wrote:That’s two.

Worse maths than Diane ;)
Sorry to do this, but....... WHOOSH! ;)

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by box_of_frogs » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:47 am

bobinho wrote:Sorry to do this, but....... WHOOSH! ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by AndyClaret » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:00 am

Spijed wrote:Meanwhile Boris Johnson thinks investigating historical child abuse is a complete waste of time.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47560192" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Stone him.

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by RMutt » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:27 am

Some toff little Englander starts a party because he doesn’t like Europe and wants us out. He manages to get some of the right wing press on his side who tell us stories about the threat of immigration and straight bananas. This populist party becomes a threat to the Tories who normally sweep up this kind of support. To try to deal with this threat the Tories offer the British people a refererendum on leaving Europe that they don’t excpect wiill go the way of leave but will shut up the deessenting voices in their own party and bring the voters back to the fold. Unfortunately it backfires. The various suiters to the leadership of the Tory party muddy the waters with their own sub plot agendas and because of lies and misinformation, the people vote, probably against their own interests, to leave. Oh dear what does the Tory party do now? It continues to argue among itself and makes a right mess of the leave negotiations. So we end up in a fine pickle and who’s fault is it? The Labour Party’s of course.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:23 am

Just for those struggling to keep up

- We've had an advisory referendum, which we have to enact
- No Deal is off the table, but it was only advisory so can ignore it
- Farage is calling on the EU states to interfere with internal UK politics
- Labour have no intention of calling a 2nd ref because it's only the policy of their members and can be ignored, even though it's not advisory
- The PM continues to act like the 2017 GE never happened but that the only thing that counts is what she wants.
- ERG quite happy to stop the UK sovereign parliament from us not leaving, whatever the vote
- MPs now going to have a 3rd vote on exactly the same thing, despite it being a really bad idea to let the people vote more than once.

Think that covers it!

Total mess, and more and more damaging to democracy everyday
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by gtclaret » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:43 am

Tricky Trevor wrote:So now expressing an opinion is disgraceful. Thank you for that, Adolf.
Wrong, parliament voted for a referendum 6-1 that included the vast majority of of those who cheered. What was disgraceful is that the elected representatives want to ignore the result.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:50 am

Nor you of hard left cultural Marxism ..
If you think I'm hard left, god knows just how far right you are!
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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:07 am

*Sigh*

People are fond of going over the old arguments aren't they?

Before the referendum, promises of sunlit uplands

After the referendum, reality

Thats the problem here, and that is why everyone is struggling with it. The only ones who are not struggling with it are those who don't care about the damage or who think that bad stuff just can't happen to us.

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by joey13 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:13 am

Can’t wait for when the second referendum is voted for today and all the thick racists lose their ****

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by dpinsussex » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:13 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:*Sigh*

People are fond of going over the old arguments aren't they?

Before the referendum, promises of sunlit uplands

After the referendum, reality

Thats the problem here, and that is why everyone is struggling with it. The only ones who are not struggling with it are those who don't care about the damage or who think that bad stuff just can't happen to us.
Surely people weren't stupid enough to believe all that bull of "promises of sunlit uplands" where they?

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Re: The Labour Party

Post by Damo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:15 am

South West Claret. wrote:Wasn’t it the one that elected him as leader?
Best £2 I ever spent

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