Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:37 pm

Genuinely can't think of anything that Parliament will get behind at the moment.

Unless its another pay rise of course!

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:42 pm

And if the EU denies an extension? I guess May would revoke A50 then resign. Which would be a doubly good result.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:42 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Genuinely can't think of anything that Parliament will get behind at the moment.

Unless its another pay rise of course!

That depends on whether some common sense breaks out and they decide on some genuine cross party working to sort this out (something that should have happened straight after the last general election). That, plus parties allowing free votes would probably get us to an answer.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:45 pm

Bacchus wrote:And if the EU denies an extension? I guess May would revoke A50 then resign. Which would be a doubly good result.

That is exactly what I think will happen

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:45 pm

Bacchus wrote:And if the EU denies an extension? I guess May would revoke A50 then resign. Which would be a doubly good result.

It’s either that or crash out with no deal on 29th. As many have pointed out, voting against no deal won’t stop it happening as it’s the default position without an extension or revocation of A50. The best quote I heard on the no deal vote today was ‘it’s like the titanic voting against the iceberg’.

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:52 pm

bobinho wrote:Sorry to do this, but....... WHOOSH!

Eh?

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:57 pm

May will practice seppuku on the steps of No.10 before she lets "facilitated no-deal brexit" be the defining point of her legacy. She's a career politician after all and they care for such b0llocks, and she isn't near as interested in entertaining the destructive revolution of no-deal (ahem...excuse me, "managed" no deal) as the purists and ideologues in her party.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:01 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Aggi you and I both know you spent days arguing the toss when Keighley claret attempted to link what happens after a general election to the referendum.

Well, it's pretty simple, this happened in the past so we both agree that there'll be evidence. Link to the post where I said that the losing party is allowed to enact parts of its manifesto through white papers and legislation into law and that will be the end of the matter. If it was a deleted thread you can find it using google and the cached page.

If you can't find the link (which obviously you won't) then we can put this to bed as you having no proof (and obviously posting the post where I was quoting you doesn't count as I know that's your usual ploy) and can get back onto current affairs.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:16 pm

aggi wrote:Anyway, back to the slightly more adult discussion.

I imagine some remaining tories also want to do it but the fact remains that there are a number of EU regulations governing employment (for instance you cannot dismiss a worker because they refuse to transfer from full-time to part-time work). At the moment if you want to get rid of that it would be very difficult involving agreement of multiple member states and then pushing it through in the UK.

Post Brexit the more difficult step is removed. Similarly, current workers rights may be enshrined in UK law but it's a lot easier for a tory to change that than EU law.

Plentyof prominent tories and brexiteers have talked about wanting to get rid of EU regulations relating to employment. Why do you think it is mentioned so often that there are concerns about employment rights post-Brexit.

Usual Tory bashing by Labour luvvies.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:18 pm

martin_p wrote:It’s either that or crash out with no deal on 29th. As many have pointed out, voting against no deal won’t stop it happening as it’s the default position without an extension or revocation of A50. The best quote I heard on the no deal vote today was ‘it’s like the titanic voting against the iceberg’.

Sure, I get that, but in the event of a straight choice between the two options neither May nor Parliament are mad or incompetent enough to leave with no deal while pulling the plug on the whole farce is still an option.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:21 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Is this the bit where you reply back with -

"Greenmile wrote:That's a fair summary as I remember it (although mymemory isn't always great).

The bit in bold is where you lost the argument, because it's incontrovertably and pretty much self-evidently true, irrespective of any political opportunism or anything else you may try to use to argue it away"

But remember to log in as "aggi!"

This was me addressing "aggi" in post 3780.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:23 pm

Greenmile wrote:I'd be happy to go around again if you want, but I think it may annoy the other posters on here, so let's let it drop. I mean, you're basically plagiarising yourself at this point.

This was post 3781

"Greenmile" quoting my question to "aggi" but replying as "Greenmile"

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:24 pm

aggi wrote:Well, it's pretty simple, this happened in the past so we both agree that there'll be evidence. Link to the post where I said that the losing party is allowed to enact parts of its manifesto through white papers and legislation into law and that will be the end of the matter. If it was a deleted thread you can find it using google and the cached page.

If you can't find the link (which obviously you won't) then we can put this to bed as you having no proof (and obviously posting the post where I was quoting you doesn't count as I know that's your usual ploy) and can get back onto current affairs.

Aggi you and I both know you spent days arguing the toss when Keighley claret attempted to link what happens after a general election to the referendum.

He said the opposition don't just pack up and sit in silence.

I said with a binary in/out referendum only the winning sides manifesto can ever be enacted. To try and accommodate remain would like trying to be half pregnant.

I then said in a general election only the winning party is allowed to enact it's manifesto into legislation and law.

You then stepped in and argued for days on end claiming it was. Attempting to say that when the Tories had stolen a libdems idea it was evidence of a losing party having its manifesto pledge enacted.

I pointed out it was nothing of the sort. It was in fact just political opportunistism to gain popularity.

So my memory is clearly better at recalling what was said and by whom.

You're just as wrong then as you are now!

Anyway you carry on arguing with Turtles head. See if you can lose the argument with him. You lost it with me a long time ago. Despite what your dodgy memory tells you!

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:32 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiTwf45cH6M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:34 pm

Ringo claiming victory in every argument he's lost comprehensively on here is peak Brexit.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:20 pm

Foulthrow wrote:Eh?

Ok. Here goes. I referred to Diane Abbott like I did for two reasons.
1. She’s mince. There’s no point trying to dress this up any other way. She is thicker than a dockers butty, and NO political party who employs her could be taken seriously, she is to labour what BoJo is to the tories, and
2. Saying it like I did (one word, when it was actually two) was a nod to her legendary numeracy skills.

Whoosh is the sound something makes when it goes over ones head.

OMG!!! You have inadvertently “whooshed” me! Touché sir.

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:31 pm

Just kill democracy and stamp on all the majority working class and the EU hatred will just evaporate.....never

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:31 pm

SmudgetheClaret wrote:what on gods earth are you banging on about commie? work it out we form a new party and take back control Italy did it Hungary did it we will do it and what's even better is we haven't had our Trump moment yet ! now that will get you running to your safe space

We never had our Hitler moment either, much to your chagrin i'm sure, because other countries got there first and we saw how awful people like him were.
America and Brazil got there before us. We'll be fine.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:43 pm

Crikey. Back to the debate about the growing angry and angrier Brexiteers, Question Time tonight kind of proves the point. The respectable looking guy in the red top totally lost it, yelling at the panel. Every week it’s getting worse. This tonight is from 60% Remain affluent Ealing.

We have gone from Remainers being angry with Brexiteers since 2016 to the reverse situation now the betrayal is nearly complete. This is going to poison the well for decades. Thanks a lot Parliament.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:50 pm

Rolf Harris seemed rather angry when he was demanding a "peoples vote"
He looked like a joint of gammon

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:19 am

I watched Question Time also and I am none the wiser about anything whatsoever..

The excitable bloke in the salmon pink sweater and black specs gets my vote every time - he dealt with fat beardie guy pretty smoothly, who huffed and puffed, and was well off the lunacy scale.

Fiona Bruce is really annoying me now with her 1] too frequent interruptions 2] clear REMAINER credentials on view.

James Cleverley [nice guy for a Tory] didn't want to be there, and looked about to burst into tears at any point.

This Week is not up to it's usual standard tonight...and Portillo thinks that at least one Euro economy will block our request for 'extra time..

- fair enough, who wants one or two more years of this tragic nonsense?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:26 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Ringo claiming victory in every argument he's lost comprehensively on here is peak Brexit.

There was another victory I had Lancasterclaret wasn't there.

I said that money that'd had come from the EU to Burnley through regeneration funds was, given we're a net contributor to the EU, was simply our own taxes coming back.

To which , you replied, "Christ on a bike Ringo it's not that simple!!!!!!!!"

I then provided independently sourced facts. From the Full Fact website and from the ONS website.

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-memb ... 5-million/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"This included £359 million that came back through the European Regional Development Fund and £2.4 billion through the Agricultural Guarantee Fund.

Given these figures, ONS reports that the UK government's net contribution to the EU - that is the difference between the money it paid to the EU and the money it received - was £9.4 billion in 2016 as compared with the £18.9 billion gross contribution.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governme ... 2017-10-31" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The UK gets money back

The government then gets some of that money back, mainly through payments to farmers and for poorer areas of the country such as Wales and Cornwall.

In 2017, the UK's ‘public sector receipts’ are estimated to be £4 billion.

So overall we paid in £8.9 billion more than we got back.

In 2016, the UK received a rebate of £5 billion. This means £13.9 billion was transferred from the UK government to the EU in official payments.

But this only accounts for the money that the UK pays to the EU – some of this £13.9 billion is credited back to the UK public sector, of which a proportion is then paid to the private sector.

ONS reports that £4.4 billion came back to the UK public sector and private sector in credits in 2016.

I Proved you utterly incorrect Lancasterclaret.

What did you do?

Your response was to do the social media equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and go "waaaaaah I can't hear you!!"

No longer attempting to portray yourself as a high minded political heavy weight. No, you threw your Toys other of cot in a tantrum!

You blocked my posts.

More recently I posted a link that explained the reason that Dominic Grieve loyalties were not with the uk but with the EU as his duplicitous, some would say treacherous , parallel meetings with French officials.

Rather than attempt to defend the quisling cock roach, former attorney general, you resorted to playing the man , not the ball. Sneering that it was no surprise that I was using The Sun as a source.

Perhaps it was your previous childish response to being proven wrong that prompted me to use the Sun. After all, when I use Full Fact and the Office of National Statistics, as sources. You spit your dummy out and block me!

Don't change Lancasterclaret, not one bit. You stay utterly deluded.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:28 am

Question time. Full of swivel eyed metropolitan bubble dwelling Remoaners, frothing at the mouth.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:34 am

What a sh*tstorm of a day in Westminster. I think the only person to come out with any credibility today is Bercow who once again appears like a prince among men

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:38 am

The 2016 referendum came about because the winning party the 2015 GE , the Tories, manifesto pledged to hold a eu referendum.

The 2016 referendum, therefore, had a, democratically secured, manifesto based mandate.

Labour did not include such a pledge in its 2015 manifesto.

Neither the Tory nor labour manifestos of 2017 mentioned having a 2nd EU referendum.

If there was to be a 2nd referendum, from where will the democratically secured mandate have been derived.?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:46 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:What a sh*tstorm of a day in Westminster. I think the only person to come out with any credibility today is Bercow who once again appears like a prince among men

A " prince" you say!?

He's widely expected to make history. As the very first House of Commons Speaker , never to have received a peerage.

John Bercow, The "Prince" that never wore a crown.

Good effort Johnny Boy.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:02 am

Reading Ringo's posts tonight...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MFtl2XXnUc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:05 am

Tried to avoid Brexit for a short while before I realised I’m actually addicted to it. Compellingly shambolic.

Yes I’d have voted remain, yes I still think it’s a bad idea and the wrong reasons won the vote, but ultimately I’d rather leave than just prolong this bitter limbo.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:12 am

Spiral wrote:Reading Ringo's posts tonight...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MFtl2XXnUc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Excellent.

It has to be said, the lad's displayed the full gamut of his repertoire : weird crowing about his perceived "victories", his snide retorts to all and sundry, the labelling of "Question Time" participants as "swivel-eyed" and "frothing at the mouth" - ironic,no ? - capital letters, bold, shouty fonts and lots of

. On and on until the early hours.
Classic pi$$ed up Ringo. He won but he hasn't quite got over it.

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:08 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Absolutely top quality squirming, Burnley not so Ace!!!

How is pointing out that the question- "Did the majority of Labour MPs vote to have an eu referendum?" Was straight forward, unambiguous and caveat - free accepting it

The more you squirm. The more I laugh.!!

It’s a historical fact, it’s evidence that Labour MPs didn’t vote to make the the EU Tefetendum Bill into an Act. You can keep repeating the same line but fortunately it’s a fact you cannot disprove.

And as for “squirm” - that’s just repeating my description of you!

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:09 am

His deflection tactics are on point it has to be said.
Plus we all know Friday is extra heavy drinking day so it should be great.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:20 am

**** knows what QT Crosspool and Hampers were watching.

Very shouty though, and that doesn't help but clear the majority of the audience not keen on Brexit but not screaming about "betrayal of the people" whenever anybody else spoke.

Get this deal done so we can all wait till the zealots on both sides die off and we can go back to being normal again

*edited for Damo

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:30 am

We will not leave the EU, have a look at the odds.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:34 am

South West Claret. wrote:We will not leave the EU, have a look at the odds.

The odds say we're about 75% likely to leave

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:48 am

Aye, if you think we are not going to leave then stick money on it!

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:04 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:**** knows what QT Crosspool and Hampers were watching.

Very shouty though, and that doesn't help but clear the majority of the audience not keen on Brexit but not screaming about "betrayal of the people" whenever anybody else spoke.

Get this deal done so we can all wait till the zealots die off and we can go back to being normal again

Can we stop wishing people dead please, just because they have a different political perspective than you

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:05 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:**** knows what QT Crosspool and Hampers were watching.

Very shouty though, and that doesn't help but clear the majority of the audience not keen on Brexit but not screaming about "betrayal of the people" whenever anybody else spoke.

Get this deal done so we can all wait till the zealots die off and we can go back to being normal again

Some good points were made amongst all the hysterics.

The lad who pointed out that whatever you thought Brexit meant 3 years ago is pretty much irrelevant, because May's deal is the only deal in town was spot on. Brexit means May's deal. We now know exactly what Brexit is, because it's laid out in black and white.

Anything else is a fantasy. If there's to be a vote, it would surely have to be between May's deal and remain.

James Cleverly's face was a picture when the old guy in the audience said he'd never vote again if Brexit didn't happen. He knew right there and then that the Tories main demographic could well retire from the democratic process if they fail to deliver Brexit, consigning them to the political wilderness forever. Hence why they're so keen to deliver it despite all of its obvious flaws.

Once again, they're putting their party ahead of the national interest, just like they've been doing since the beginning of this process, all the way back to Cameron becoming PM in 2010.

The professor of EU law was also excellent, cutting through the noise and the bullshit often to stunned silence from the audience.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:08 am

Can we stop wishing people dead please, just because they have a different political perspective than you

Not wishing anyone dead, and meant the zealots on both sides.

But you'll get lots of likes from those who can never be arsed to read my posts though!

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:25 am

Great to see the smug Greive tied in knots by Nield on TW re the former's view that there should be a second referendum with May's deal v remain.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:08 am

Is it a coincidence that Lancs wasn’t posting for 2-3 hours last night while Question Time was on?

The ramblings of that Rolf Harris lookalike were too similar to be a coincidence, surely?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:17 am

I think we've reached a new low when we start comparing some remainers to Rolf Harris tbh.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:18 am

Posting on Twitter.

And comparing remainers to Rolf Harris?

We need less zealots in the world, and a lot more pragmatic people.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:23 am

nil_desperandum wrote:I think we've reached a new low when we start comparing some remainers to Rolf Harris tbh.

To be fair to Crosspool he did say ‘Rolf Harris lookalike’

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:27 am

martin_p wrote:To be fair to Crosspool he did say ‘Rolf Harris lookalike’

So that's not a comparison?
The guy looked as much like Rolf Harris as anyone else with a beard of of that sort of age. In other words, not very much.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:30 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Ringo claiming victory in every argument he's lost comprehensively on here is peak Brexit.

The refusal to provide evidence definitely resonates.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:32 am

You don't need evidence, you just need to believe that you are right.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:36 am

Just a bit of fun. It was Damo and Hampers who came up with the Rolf Harris joke last night. The guy was ranting even more than the Brexiteer in red was so he opens himself up to a bit of satire (as does Lancs with his comments about zealots without the slightest hint of irony).

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:39 am

Both were ranting, and both were ridiculous.

No problem Crosspool btw, just a bit sensitive this morning (probably due to the horrible news in NZ)

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:41 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Is it a coincidence that Lancs wasn’t posting for 2-3 hours last night while Question Time was on?

The ramblings of that Rolf Harris lookalike were too similar to be a coincidence, surely?

Lancaster was on Twitter taking the p*** out of the angry remainer and the moon bat behind him with me during question time

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:43 am

nil_desperandum wrote:So that's not a comparison?
The guy looked as much like Rolf Harris as anyone else with a beard of of that sort of age. In other words, not very much.

Did he not look like Rolf Harris?
I thought he did anyway. Didnt realise people would be so offended sorry