What about being told that you have two logins (and a page of trying to prove it)? That must be worth way more than some bog-standard copy/pasting.martin_p wrote:Hey, I’m claiming that. Point to me!
Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I think this has just overtaken I've got the ability to adapt & the speed of thought not to be affected by it, that's where we differ as my favourite post on the thread. It's a tough call though.RingoMcCartney wrote:As with most things brexit related, I've been proven correct.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
If you can get him to repeat that you can have a point!aggi wrote:What about being told that you have two logins (and a page of trying to prove it)? That must be worth way more than some bog-standard copy/pasting.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
martin_p wrote:Hey, I’m claiming that. Point to me!
Ringo McCartney "Bercows role will be pivotal"
Martin p- " Ringo, Bercow cannot pick and choose what amendments to submit"
Ringo, Facts, Reality, Hindsight, Inarguable Proof 1. Martin_p 0
You're well on the way to a house of being wrong. Good effort Marty
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
He hasn’t “picked and chosen”, he’s followed due procedure and precedent. Something I believe you claimed he wouldn’t do.RingoMcCartney wrote:
Ringo McCartney "Bercows role will be pivotal"
Martin p- " Ringo, Bercow cannot pick and choose what amendments to submit"
Ringo, Facts, Reality, Hindsight, Inarguable Proof 1. Martin_p 0
You're well on the way to a house of being wrong. Good effort Marty
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Second point for me plus a bonus for the LOL.RingoMcCartney wrote:
Ringo McCartney "Bercows role will be pivotal"
Martin p- " Ringo, Bercow cannot pick and choose what amendments to submit"
Ringo, Facts, Reality, Hindsight, Inarguable Proof 1. Martin_p 0
You're well on the way to a house of being wrong. Good effort Marty
Although he’s saying the opposite of what I actually said, but he’s copied the lie, so it still counts.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
You mention money, but I don't see that as the point.martin_p wrote:Interesting you should use Burnley as an example as you still manage to have the feelings you do about the club without it having complete ‘sovereignty’ over its affairs. We’re a member of a larger organisation with other clubs. That organisation defines how much money we can spend, what we can have in our ground and when we play our games as well as a raft of other things.
It is whether a group of people with things in common, bonding together in a communitarian spirit, have more value to their lives than those who don't. I could take my family to watch the Blades, much closer to home for me, but I would miss the shared history I have with the Clarets and the communitarian element which makes us stick together even when we bump into fellow Clarets away from the town.
Going back to the nation state, I see it as a bit like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. At the bottom, the most crucial needs of all, without which nothing else matters, would be independence, secure borders, peace and international recognition. I see a strong relationship with the countries around us as crucial to achieving that, but the expansion of the EU, freedom of movement and Schengen harm three of those four needs (peace in the UK is threatened by Putin being threatened due to the EU ever expanding). I'd love it if the EU was a loose economic and foreign policy collaboration between nations, not an integrated mess.
You could argue a hierarchy could be:
individual ----> family ---> local area ----> region ----> nation ----> supranational (EU) ----> world (UN)
I would argue family, local area, region and nation have all become more fragile in recent decades with the mobility people are exercising, and we need to find ways of strengthening those aspects while preserving the benefits we have had from that mobility. Otherwise we will end up with hundreds of millions of individuals making decisions just for themselves, sitting under a supranational EU with little in between.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
It is, and in 10 days.Face it lads, it's not happening is it
We are not even remotely ready for a "No Deal", which is something that we can all agree on.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
In January he drove a coach and horses through accepted parliamentary procedural protocol. He went against the advice of his clerks. He's repeatedly refused to publish the advice they gave him.TheFamilyCat wrote:He hasn’t “picked and chosen”, he’s followed due procedure and precedent. Something I believe you claimed he wouldn’t do.
Last week he CHOSE not to table an amendment on stopping a 2nd referendum.
He has indeed took it upon himself to act unilaterally, something else that Marty claimed he couldn't do. He has indeed, pick and choose amendments that clearly favoured Remoaners.
His role, despite being told to step aside, by a QC lead independent parliamentary inquiry into bullying in Westminster, has been pivotal.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Lying about lying !martin_p wrote:Second point for me plus a bonus for the LOL.
Although he’s saying the opposite of what I actually said, but he’s copied the lie, so it still counts.
You been getting tuition from the north of the county!?
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
But presumably you accept that not all Clarets are from Burnley, and even the ones that are may live a long way away. You accept that new fans will arrive that don’t have a shared history with you. You still welcome into the Clarets family.CrosspoolClarets wrote: It is whether a group of people with things in common, bonding together in a communitarian spirit, have more value to their lives than those who don't. I could take my family to watch the Blades, much closer to home for me, but I would miss the shared history I have with the Clarets and the communitarian element which makes us stick together even when we bump into fellow Clarets away from the town
This user liked this post: CrosspoolClarets
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I assume you have some evidence of me saying that then. As you know Wrongo, evidence is everything!RingoMcCartney wrote:Lying about lying !
You been getting tuition from the north of the county!?
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Point to FamilyCat.RingoMcCartney wrote:In January he drove a coach and horses through accepted parliamentary procedural protocol. He went against the advice of his clerks. He's repeatedly refused to publish the advice they gave him.
Last week he CHOSE not to table an amendment on stopping a 2nd referendum.
He has indeed took it upon himself to act unilaterally, something else that Marty claimed he couldn't do. He has indeed, pick and choose amendments that clearly favoured Remoaners.
His role, despite being told to step aside, by a QC lead independent parliamentary inquiry into bullying in Westminster, has been pivotal.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
It’s going to be a high scoring game. He’s getting more and more irate as the fantasy falls away.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
martin_p wrote:I assume you have some evidence of me saying that then. As you know Wrongo, evidence is everything!
Come on now marty, anybody who's a regular visitor to these pages will know full well that you and I had a long drawn out argument about Bercow and his future role in the Brexit process.
The actual thread has long gone, but you're attempting to back pedal on what you said only makes you look more silly. Were that possible!
Put the spade down marty!
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Order, order !
No, not more pints, Ringo....................
No, not more pints, Ringo....................
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I’m claiming another point for the LOL.RingoMcCartney wrote:
Come on now marty, anybody who's a regular visitor to these pages will know full well that you and I had a long drawn out argument about Bercow and his future role in the Brexit process.
The actual thread has long gone, but you're attempting to back pedal on what you said only makes you look more silly. Were that possible!
Put the spade down marty!
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
The hero of a nation. Brexit should be just put solely in the hands of super Johnny Bercow and once he's sorted it out we should scrap out current parliamentary system and make him president of the United Kingdom
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
martin_p wrote:I’m claiming another point for the LOL.
You went too early Marty!
See the "politics live thread"
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
If I was you (and I'm not), I have a 56 page thread on what "lying" means.You been getting tuition from the north of the county!?
But because I'm not you, and its all been happily explained by other who can read and work it out, I won't bother.
But feel free to keep replying to this if it stops you getting angry about the Brexit process!
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
It would seem rational for the EU to finally accept that the EU/May withdrawal agreement will not be approved by our parliament.
They should now offer us a six month implementation period to prepare for a no deal WTO Brexit.
They should now offer us a six month implementation period to prepare for a no deal WTO Brexit.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
You mean the one they are prepared for, and we are not?They should now offer us a six month implementation period to prepare for a no deal WTO Brexit.
We have to go to them with an actual plan, which is something I'm not convinced that the government have at the moment.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Well done, you’ve pulled out a quote of me saying something entirely different to ‘Bercow cannot pick and chose what amendments to submit’.RingoMcCartney wrote:You went too early Marty!
See the "politics live thread"
You still struggle with what evidence is.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
And if you look at the next quote on that thread!martin_p wrote:Well done, you’ve pulled out a quote of me saying something entirely different to ‘Bercow cannot pick and chose what amendments to submit’.
You still struggle with what evidence is.
Bang to rights Marty!martin_p wrote:He’s done exactly what I said he can do, DECIDE on which amendments to allow. If you can link where I’ve said otherwise then feel free.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Martin p -martin_p wrote:He’s done exactly what I said he can do, DECIDE on which amendments to allow. If you can link where I’ve said otherwise then feel free.
"You do know it's not Bercow that will define what the vote is don't you? He's just the the facilitator Wrongo"
Ringo McCartney-
"Bercow is being kept on place to "Stop Brexit". His role will be pivotal"
Martin p -
"You do know it's not Bercow that will define what the vote is don't you? He's just the the facilitator Ringo"
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... rexit-bias
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/01/j" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... or-labour/
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/br" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 22691.html
3 separate sources showing Bercows role to be "pivotal"
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
So this is a new tactic Wrongo. You claim I said something and prove it by supplying a quote where I say the exact opposite (saving me the work, thanks).RingoMcCartney wrote:And if you look at the next quote on that thread!
Bang to rights Marty!
I’m claiming two points for the repetition and LOLs.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Six months should be enough time to work with the EU to 'minimise the mutual disruption' of a WTO Brexit.Lancasterclaret wrote:You mean the one they are prepared for, and we are not?
We have to go to them with an actual plan, which is something I'm not convinced that the government have at the moment.
Complicated - Yes
Difficult - Yes
Doable - Yes
But we will have left the EU and all future discussions/negotiations will have a clear starting point.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Just throwing this in here from Nick Boles MP
"Not sure what all the fuss is about. If the PM thinks she has a majority for a third meaningful vote, she will also have a majority for a motion to set aside the Speaker’s ruling on the Erskine May convention. If she doesn’t, no point making the attempt."
"Not sure what all the fuss is about. If the PM thinks she has a majority for a third meaningful vote, she will also have a majority for a motion to set aside the Speaker’s ruling on the Erskine May convention. If she doesn’t, no point making the attempt."
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Again, made up quotes without evidence. The only actual quote you’ve provided is me saying Bercow’s job is to decide on what amendments to allow, which MPs them vote on whether to make part of the motion.RingoMcCartney wrote:Martin p -
"You do know it's not Bercow that will define what the vote is don't you? He's just the the facilitator Wrongo"
Ringo McCartney-
"Bercow is being kept on place to "Stop Brexit". His role will be pivotal"
Martin p -
"You do know it's not Bercow that will define what the vote is don't you? He's just the the facilitator Ringo"
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... rexit-bias
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/01/j" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... or-labour/
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/br" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 22691.html
3 separate sources showing Bercows role to be "pivotal"
Anyhow, another two points to me. This is like shooting fish in a barrel.
Last edited by martin_p on Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Precisely. The Bercow thing is a sideshow, although he’s just doing his job. If there is a majority for May’s deal it will happen.Lancasterclaret wrote:Just throwing this in here from Nick Boles MP
"Not sure what all the fuss is about. If the PM thinks she has a majority for a third meaningful vote, she will also have a majority for a motion to set aside the Speaker’s ruling on the Erskine May convention. If she doesn’t, no point making the attempt."
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
No point playing this game, Martin has an unassailable lead.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
This is you saying he can't pick and choose.martin_p wrote: You do know it's not Bercow that will define what the vote is don't you? He's just the the facilitator Wrongo
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Of course, of course. New Clarets are always welcome, as long as numbers are controlled (we don't want 30,000 turning up when we have 20,000 capacity), and as long as they are prepared to "buy in" to the Clarets culture (no Rovers shirts allowed). Ideally we would only want them if they were prepared to give their own money to the club (i.e. no continued free tickets).martin_p wrote:But presumably you accept that not all Clarets are from Burnley, and even the ones that are may live a long way away. You accept that new fans will arrive that don’t have a shared history with you. You still welcome into the Clarets family.
It isn't difficult
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
martin_p wrote:He’s done exactly what I said he can do, DECIDE on which amendments to allow. If you can link where I’ve said otherwise then feel free
This is you saying he can actually pick and choose!
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Yesmartin_p wrote:I assume you have some evidence of me saying that then. As you know Wrongo, evidence is everything!
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Nope, that’s you lying again. If you can link the thread where I said it then fine, I’ll apologise for calling you a liar.RingoMcCartney wrote:This is you saying he can't pick and choose.
Just to stop you continually repeating yourself here’s what I said. The context was you claiming that Bercow could ‘force a second referendum’ during a discussion on what the first meaningful vote might be. I pointed out to you that Bercow couldn’t define the wording of a meaningful vote and there was no way he could force a second referendum. I went on to explain that the government would define the wording of the main motion, MPs could propose amendments and it was Bercow’s role to decide on which amendments to put to the vote. But it was then down to parliament, through a vote, to decide whether or not those amendments were attached to the main motion.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
This is evidence of you claiming his role wasn't "pivotal"martin_p wrote: No his role wasn’t pivotal. What has it changed? I asked you this once before and you didn’t answer. He acted within his remit, it’s his job to serve parliament not the government. And if you’re going to argue his role is pivotal then something has to ‘pivot’.
Bang to rights Marty!
When it comes to me proving you wrong yet again .
Well I'm afraid there's only Ringo that can shout "House!"
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
It is, and I stand by that statement in the context of the conversation it was part of.RingoMcCartney wrote:This is evidence of you claiming his role wasn't "pivotal"
Bang to rights Marty!
When it comes to me proving you wrong yet again .
Well I'm afraid there's only Ringo that can shout "House!"
I think I’m due another 5 points or so.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
First you say he can't.martin_p wrote: You do know it's NOT Bercow that will define what the vote is don't you? He's just the the facilitator Wrongo
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Then you say he can.martin_p wrote: He’s done exactly what I said he can do, DECIDE on which amendments to allow. If you can link where I’ve said otherwise then feel free .
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Then you ask for evidence.martin_p wrote: I assume you have some evidence of me saying that then. As you know Wrongo, evidence is everything! .
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Then I provide evidencemartin_p wrote: No his role wasn’t pivotal. What has it changed? I asked you this once before and you didn’t answer. He acted within his remit, it’s his job to serve parliament not the government. And if you’re going to argue his role is pivotal then something has to ‘pivot’.
Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
The only thing you're due is a lay down Marty.martin_p wrote:
I think I’m due another 5 points or so.
You're role in proving me right and you wrong has been pivotal!
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
There's no need for them to offer that. We're due to leave with no deal in 10 days' time.Mala591 wrote:They should now offer us a six month implementation period to prepare for a no deal WTO Brexit.
Last edited by JohnMcGreal on Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Here’s you saying you’re wrong about everything. We can all play that game Wrongo, you’ve taken your swivel eyed lunacy to new levels today!RingoMcCartney wrote:I’m pretty much wrong about everything
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
He may well be a hero but not like you think. He might just have forced the EU to do something that they have so far refused to get a deal through.Devils_Advocate wrote:The hero of a nation. Brexit should be just put solely in the hands of super Johnny Bercow and once he's sorted it out we should scrap out current parliamentary system and make him president of the United Kingdom
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Here's the link!-martin_p wrote: He’s done exactly what I said he can do, DECIDE on which amendments to allow. If you can link where I’ve said otherwise then feel free
martin_p wrote: You do know it's not Bercow that will define what the vote is don't you? He's just the the facilitator Wrongo
If Carlsberg did saying otherwise!.......
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
I guess, as you say, it's different mindsets. In the mind of many, particularly younger people who've grown up in a global world, the nation state isn't the thing that binds us together.CrosspoolClarets wrote:The non-economic elements are also clear. Many value the nation state in a similar way to how they view family - the glue that gives comfort to our lives and binds us together. Burnley fans, and the way we feel about the Clarets, should understand that. Some of us believe that nation state sovereignty will give our lives better meaning, others think it won’t. Again, it can’t be argued, it is just different mindsets.
Personally (and I'm not sure if I'd describe myself as the younger generation) I'm more likely to be out in the pub with someone from Budapest rather than Boston on a Friday night. A lot of my colleagues are European, a lot of my friends are; I view the mingling of cultures as a plus, not something to be afraid of.
I've spent a fair bit of time in Japan which is quite insular and I found it a bit weird, I'd prefer to be part of an inclusive rather exclusive society.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
Brexitiers getting more desperate by the day see link
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-ne ... rKFM03epT8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-ne ... rKFM03epT8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth
So you don’t have a link then. Thought not.RingoMcCartney wrote:Here's the link!-
If Carlsberg did saying otherwise!.......