I'm not your mate.Lancasterclaret wrote:You don't do evidence
You spent 70 pages showing everyone that you'd argue absolutely anything rather than admit you were wrong.
That all you mate, thats all you are.
Only if the tech doesn't exist dsr. Its certainly possible, but not right now.If we get May's deal, we never get out. If we don't get May's deal, then even if they rescind Article 50, we eventually get out.
I'm not your mate.
That's very reasonable. Rescind, and have a thoughtful and screechy-voice-free debate on the subject, followed by another referendum. I'd like to see some sort of referee in a future debate though. An organisation that quickly busts myths and checks facts on all sides. The media let us down last time, not contesting project fear, and not contesting the lies on the leave side.dsr wrote:Hope not. It's good news that it might mean the tactics of delay and confusion will stop on 29th March. But knowing how much our MPs like delay and confusion, I doubt that. But at least it means May and others will have to come down on one side of the fence or the other - for Brexit, or against Brexit.
If we get May's deal, we never get out. If we don't get May's deal, then even if they rescind Article 50, we eventually get out.
Now that's how you do a link Wrongo.Tall Paul wrote:Here you go Ringo
You haven't taught anyone a lesson.Lancasterclaret wrote:You scream abuse at me when I point out that your dreams are just dreams with nothing to back it up.
Then you get all personal. Telling me what I am, with nothing to back it up.
And I'm supposed to take it without saying anything?
Its not nice is it when you get accused of stuff is it?
Is this little lesson getting through MATE?
martin_p wrote:Now that's how you do a link Wrongo.
Someone's already answered that one for him Wrongo, with a link.RingoMcCartney wrote:You haven't taught anyone a lesson.
Show me a single racist or homophobic post I've ever made.
Your point definitely seemed to be that it was a Remain protest, or else you could have used any protest (as indeed you accidentally did). You could always edit it and leave the original mistake in, problem solved. (I also wasn't outraged, not really sure why you thought I was. I guess it's easier to attack a straw man.)Darthlaw wrote:Aggi, the point was made that another protest caused disruption on the same location. You choose to be outraged because this one is for Leave. I didn’t edit because I don’t hide away from my mistakes. I admit them, as I have done earlier. Humility, try it sometime.
I’m not sure where any of you guys have condemned the use of older leave voters no longer being around as a reason to have another referendum.
Older people are more likely to die, we get that. To use ‘older people have died, who voted the other way, so we want another referendum’ to me is distasteful. If you want to put yourself behind that, it says more about you.
martin_p wrote:Someone's already answered that one for him Wrongo, with a link.
Lancasterclaret wrote:He knows that.
Not really, but he has a blog apparently which goes into more detail, one reason given was rule taker, not rule maker. He gave a good explanation of the famous Farage "we could be like Norway" quote, apparently Norway are very good at not following single market rules and the EU is not happy with this.Lancasterclaret wrote:I was working on and off away from the radio so only heard bits of what he said, but did he go into a bit more detail?
Ah, caught the end of that bit. Yeah, was interesting.Not really, but he has a blog apparently which goes into more detail, one reason given was rule taker, not rule maker. He gave a good explanation of the famous Farage "we could be like Norway" quote, apparently Norway are very good at not following single market rules and the EU is not happy with this.
There were plenty out there last time: Fullfact.org and various Channel 4 and BBC articles for instance. The issue is that if people want to believe then they will and rationalise why they believe. Look at how often the £350m figure was debunked and people still believed it.AndrewJB wrote:An organisation that quickly busts myths and checks facts on all sides. The media let us down last time, not contesting project fear, and not contesting the lies on the leave side.
If you're going to attempt to silence people who happen to have the sheer audacity to have a different world view to you, and express a different opinion , God forbid. By making serious accusations about what they've said.Lancasterclaret wrote:Anyway, if you could all ignore the spamming of sweet and innocent Ringo
Political commentators reckon that absolutely anything could happen next week.
So there you go.
It’ll be weird, being made to follow the wishes of an European beaurocrat, unelected by the UK, for once...JohnMcGreal wrote:Macron ready to reject our extension request?
https://twitter.com/PaulJSweeney/status ... 2138509312" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Like I keep saying the EU does whatever France and Germany say.JohnMcGreal wrote:Macron ready to reject our extension request?
https://twitter.com/PaulJSweeney/status ... 2138509312" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Think whatever you want about me. I know exactly what I think, not necessarily about you personally, but views and opinions expressed by you, on this message board.Lancasterclaret wrote:You've got some front Ringo
You are not reasonable or nice to me when I point out when you wrong.
So I've had it with being reasonable or nice to you when you are don't show me the same courtesy.
It'll be a stretch, even for those that voted Leave, to blame the EU if there's a no deal Brexit. May's deal has been doomed since it was revealed back in November. If she'd have had the vote then and accepted the inevitable defeat, there'd have been four months to come up with an alternative plan.summitclaret wrote:Like I keep saying the EU does whatever France and Germany say.
This may not be a bad thing though. Even labour might vote for May's deal if we can't get an extension. If not the EU will be to blame for no deal. Or as is more likely we are forced to revoke A50 (and immediately evoke again) the EU will be seen for what they are.
Lancasterclaret wrote:MP just been on the radio saying that they could bring down the government if it goes for a "No Deal".
The ERG won't vote for Mays deal, not with "No Deal" looking so close, so we are heading for a GE.
And a GE under first past the post could well solve absolutely nothing.
It might at least give us a reason for a long extension.Lancasterclaret wrote:MP just been on the radio saying that they could bring down the government if it goes for a "No Deal".
The ERG won't vote for Mays deal, not with "No Deal" looking so close, so we are heading for a GE.
And a GE under first past the post could well solve absolutely nothing.
May is toast. As soon as someone thinks the damage is done, she will be forced out.My prediction for what happens next:
1. Labour says they will support May's deal if there is the referendum offering Remain or May's deal.
2. The House of Commons passes it.
3. The EU allows an extension for the referendum. (Unless one of the Presidents vetoes it!)
4. The Electoral Commission rejects the proposed question for the referendum.
5. Everyone sits on their hands saying "what do we do now".
Of course, step 3 may fail - no extension for the referendum. In which case, Parliament will probably pass May's deal and the delay and confusion carries on for another two years.
And hopefully, and hopefully soon, May and Hammond both resign. Clarkson couldn't have made a bigger mess!
And then the question is whether it is a general election under a Tory leader appointed by MPs, or whether there is time for the membership to have a leadership vote.Lancasterclaret wrote:MP just been on the radio saying that they could bring down the government if it goes for a "No Deal".
The ERG won't vote for Mays deal, not with "No Deal" looking so close, so we are heading for a GE.
And a GE under first past the post could well solve absolutely nothing.
It might give the EU a reason for refusing it.martin_p wrote:It might at least give us a reason for a long extension.
As are the remainers who want elderly people to dieLancasterclaret wrote:For some bizarre reason Darth, I think I better mention something.
You know the homophobic and racist leave posters are not just on twitter. They are on here. Posting right now.
There is that!Dopey Corbyn still couldn't win that election. In fact there is more chance of you n ringo agreeing than dangerman winning the election.
Whats Tory membership? 30,000?If the Tories could appoint a competent leader in tune with the membership who is offering a solution, when up against Labour under Corbyn who appears to have no opinion on Brexit, then it could be decisive.
Not on here DamoAs are the remainers who want elderly people to die
Wrong but we do need a “first Informed referendum”.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Why's that then?
A 2nd one has apparently been required since the first one.
Marty,martin_p wrote:It might at least give us a reason for a long extension.
The membership do get to vote on the final two candidates after they've been narrowed down by MPs. They didn't get to vote on May as Andrea Leadsom pulled out of the race having made it to the final two making May the default winner.dsr wrote:And then the question is whether it is a general election under a Tory leader appointed by MPs, or whether there is time for the membership to have a leadership vote.
If the Tories could appoint a competent leader in tune with the membership who is offering a solution, when up against Labour under Corbyn who appears to have no opinion on Brexit, then it could be decisive.
Exactly. If Theresa May resigned today and a general election was called for as soon as possible (6 weeks?), there wouldn't be time for a membership election, so we'd be stuck with whoever the MPs voted for.martin_p wrote:The membership do get to vote on the final two candidates after they've been narrowed down by MPs. They didn't get to vote on May as Andrea Leadsom pulled out of the race having made it to the final two making May the default winner.
dsr wrote:Even if what you wrote is not what you believe, it doesn't make it any less true. If there is a second referendum, it should not exclude the "unpopular" answers.
I'm not sure the Tory party process will allow for that. It may be that they can fast track the process, but I'm not sure they'll be able to circumvent it.dsr wrote:Exactly. If Theresa May resigned today and a general election was called for as soon as possible (6 weeks?), there wouldn't be time for a membership election, so we'd be stuck with whoever the MPs voted for.
124,000 as at March 2018.Lancasterclaret wrote:Whats Tory membership? 30,000?
I dunno about you dsr, but I wouldn't be taking that sort of risk. If they elect IDS Mk II, and Lab keep with Corbyn, there are enough disenfranchised votes for anyone to win.
I hope you're right.martin_p wrote:I'm not sure the Tory party process will allow for that. It may be that they can fast track the process, but I'm not sure they'll be able to circumvent it.
Cheers.124,000 as at March 2018.
The story today is that a good number of Tory MPs will resign if the party appoint a hard Brexit leader. And there's the problem, the Tory party is so split yoy're never goung to get anyone totally committed to either side of the Brexit debate. So you end up with a compramise candidate like May and the whole thing becomes an enormous mess as neither side of the party is really happy.dsr wrote:124,000 as at March 2018.
I think the Tories would win the election if they appoint anyone who appears to be competent. May appeared to be totally unconfident and had no positive message at all and still defeated Corbyn, though not decisively; a confident, competent leader would IMO win.
Let them resign, a good number are facing deselection anyway.martin_p wrote:The story today is that a good number of Tory MPs will resign if the party appoint a hard Brexit leader. And there's the problem, the Tory party is so split yoy're never goung to get anyone totally committed to either side of the Brexit debate. So you end up with a compramise candidate like May and the whole thing becomes an enormous mess as neither side of the party is really happy.
YES! GO ON FRANCE!martin_p wrote:France are saying they will only allow the short extension if the WA is signed-off.....which pretty much guarantees it won't be signed-off.
But that splits the Tory Party, which allows Corbyn in.Let them resign, a good number are facing deselection anyway.
What will bring you out of the woodwork to answer a simple question?martin_p wrote:If there’s anything going to bring Wrongo out of the woodwork that’s it!