Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:31 pm

martin_p wrote:So with no deal definitely back on the table, and looming large with less than nine days to go, isn’t this the point at which the ‘we just need to hold our nerve’ Brexiteers told us that the EU would be offering a ton of concessions?

No deal isn't back on the table, it was never on the table and May has just lost half of the votes she needed by trying to blame MP's for her mess.
I'm very surprised the more intelligent posters on here can't see through this charade.

May has been given two choices by Brussels, get her deal through - now unlikely after her "Trump" moment, or revoke Article 50 because she herself seems to have ruled out a long extension.

This is unbelievable, I thought it would be a long extension with a general election or second referendum before Brexit got binned but it seems 99% sure now that May will revoke Article 50 sometime in the next 9 days.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:38 pm

The sooner they get to grips with the rusting that sea water produces on machinery the sooner we as a Country can do some really serious wave generation and through turbines around our shores.

Tread Warily · Post by **Tread Warily** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:41 pm

It's the year 2050,and the extension of the extension of the previous extension,prior to the last extension,has been extended.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:56 pm

South West Claret. wrote:So I wonder what the next exciting episode will bring tomorrow, any guesses.

What should be happening is that TM starts warming up the EU to what her contingency plan is should she fail yet again to get her WA through parliament. She should be talking to them about indicative votes, a potential 2nd referendum and a long extension to article 50. She won’t of course. She’s consistently refused to engage with any alternative approach or to define a plan B which is why we are where we are.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:59 pm

martin_p wrote:What should be happening is that TM starts warming up the EU to what her contingency plan is should she fail yet again to get her WA through parliament. She should be talking to them about indicative votes, a potential 2nd referendum and a long extension to article 50. She won’t of course. She’s consistently refused to engage with any alternative approach or to define a plan B which is why we are where we are.

Sounds like the EU isn't entertaining contingency plans. It's the deal as it stands, or goodbye, as far as they're concerned. Revoking Article 50 (God forbid!) would throw the cat among the pigeons; from how they sounded today, especially Macron, I suspect if that happened they would hate us so much that all deals would be off and they would invoke, or create, the little known "chuck them out" clause.

The Euro elections could be fun, if we revoked Article 50.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:09 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:No deal isn't back on the table, it was never on the table and May has just lost half of the votes she needed by trying to blame MP's for her mess.
I'm very surprised the more intelligent posters on here can't see through this charade.

May has been given two choices by Brussels, get her deal through - now unlikely after her "Trump" moment, or revoke Article 50 because she herself seems to have ruled out a long extension.

This is unbelievable, I thought it would be a long extension with a general election or second referendum before Brexit got binned but it seems 99% sure now that May will revoke Article 50 sometime in the next 9 days.

Erm.....

Parliament don't get a choice about no deal, they can't actually stop it unless they stop the whole process but we can actually leave next week with no deal if the EU see fit.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:10 pm

Thats not what is being said in the political circles.

Certainly not on Peston at the moment.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:13 pm

The only sensible thing to do is to revoke Article 50 and bin off Brexit once and for all as I suggested 2 years ago.

The Brexiteers have had ample time to sort themselves out and come up with some form of cohesive view about what Brexit should mean but as the last few years of shown they havent got a scooby between the lot of them

The time has finally arrive for common sense to prevail, put Brexit to bed and realise how great it actually is being part of the EU. Im sure they'll be a bit of kicking and screaming but putting up with the nonsense DSR, Ringo and the rest of their gang spout is a small price to pay and actually its quite amusing in a pitiful way

If one good thing can come out of this it is the rise of Johnny Bercow who has shone brightly amongst his dim parliamentary peers

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:22 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:We live on a windy, rainy island, surrounded by sea. lets dig underground for our energy needs.

It said they are mining for coking coal - yes, deep mine will extract resources from under the sea. I've not heard of a blast furnace being fed by wind turbines and waves. Is that possible? I thought coking coal is part of the steel manufacturing process.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:28 pm

Of course I was being slightly facetious. Though the climate change point is pretty clear and important.

How many more of these coal mines are planned?

is there an export market for this, or is it all for UK use?

Is it realistic that our current shipyards can compete with the ones in places like S Korea and Japan, and even add to them?

We need a reboot for the UK economy, no doubt, but I don't think manufacturing and taking on the world with it is realistic (unless we can become super automation, and then we need seriously re-training of people)

We should be concentrating on changing the emphasis of the Uk economy from London and spreading it more equally around the country.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:35 pm

I'm loving that the Claret on a T-Rex has gone all serious now, after all the childish trolling shite he's put on this thread since its birth.

Not going to plan.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:36 pm

The problem with Remainer MPs is they typically whip up the hyperbole and thus don’t convince anyone in the middle of the merits of their argument (though I bet it sounds fantastic to their core support).

On Peston we have the two Remainers on the sofa, slagging off Farage, calling him racist, Peston fishing for a sound bite. Lot’s of talk of cliff edges and catastrophe.

I’m not a fan of no deal, but would be close to voting for it nonetheless for reasons long explained on this thread. Certainly I would vote for it instead of a 9 month or more extension. I find it interesting that Braverman (on now), Raab, Davis and other ex-Ministers in DexEU all tend to believe no deal shouldn’t be feared - and they have been closest to the planning for it before they resigned.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:45 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:The only sensible thing to do is to revoke Article 50 and bin off Brexit once and for all as I suggested 2 years ago.

The Brexiteers have had ample time to sort themselves out and come up with some form of cohesive view about what Brexit should mean but as the last few years of shown they havent got a scooby between the lot of them

The time has finally arrive for common sense to prevail, put Brexit to bed and realise how great it actually is being part of the EU. Im sure they'll be a bit of kicking and screaming but putting up with the nonsense DSR, Ringo and the rest of their gang spout is a small price to pay and actually its quite amusing in a pitiful way

If one good thing can come out of this it is the rise of Johnny Bercow who has shone brightly amongst his dim parliamentary peers

You're outing yourself as a Preston North End fan, are you? "We are superior" and all that?

Fortunately, nothing you say is ever to be taken seriously because it's all there just to say "Look at me, I'm different". Unfortunately there are people who genuinely think democracy should only be for people who can be trusted to vote the "right" way.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:47 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:The problem with Remainer MPs is they typically whip up the hyperbole and thus don’t convince anyone in the middle of the merits of their argument (though I bet it sounds fantastic to their core support).

On Peston we have the two Remainers on the sofa, slagging off Farage, calling him racist, Peston fishing for a sound bite. Lot’s of talk of cliff edges and catastrophe.

I’m not a fan of no deal, but would be close to voting for it nonetheless for reasons long explained on this thread. Certainly I would vote for it instead of a 9 month or more extension. I find it interesting that Braverman (on now), Raab, Davis and other ex-Ministers in DexEU all tend to believe no deal shouldn’t be feared - and they have been closest to the planning for it before they resigned.

You think Davis did any significant planning for no deal? Pretty much everything he’s believed since before the referendum has been found to be fantasy anyway!

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:13 am

dsr wrote:You're outing yourself as a Preston North End fan, are you? "We are superior" and all that?

Fortunately, nothing you say is ever to be taken seriously because it's all there just to say "Look at me, I'm different". Unfortunately there are people who genuinely think democracy should only be for people who can be trusted to vote the "right" way.

He's right, though. You and your cohort of idiots are still bickering ,point-scoring and ya-boohing everyone who dare question you and, two yeaars on, you haven't a clue what you want, individually nor collectively. You've offered nothing to even begin to make anybody unsure of Brexit consider it viable. A laughing stock and quite rightly so.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:17 am

Brexiteers have always been quite clear about what they want though, they want out of the EU.

Or have we missed that part?

The Brexit deal isn't down to them to decide upon

As for the points scoring, bickering etc, they've had two years of that from remainers who've refused point blank to accept the result of the referendum

.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:08 am

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:18 am

martin_p wrote:You think Davis did any significant planning for no deal? Pretty much everything he’s believed since before the referendum has been found to be fantasy anyway!

Well, yes, while Davis was there the no deal planning took a while to get going (probably due to No 10 worried about the optics).

But he was right on many things - not least saying A50 should not go ahead until we are closer to a deal. He also said Chequers was a bad deal (proven correct), and also that No 10 should not have moved the negotiatiors to the Cabinet Office under the PM instead of remaining under DexEU.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:28 am

David Davis in all his glory, and showing just how wrong he was

https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status ... 6011900928" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

android · Post by **android** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:57 am

3 years gone, only a week to go and yet, all the main party leaders are tantalisingly close to their dream outcome:

May - Leave EU with her deal
Corbyn - Leave EU with no deal
SNP, Liberals, Tiggers - Revoke Article 50 and stay in EU

I always thought May's deal would pass eventually but I'm less confident in that opinion than at anytime (including when it was announced last year to widespread derision and when it lost by 230 votes). Madness.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:00 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Well, yes, while Davis was there the no deal planning took a while to get going (probably due to No 10 worried about the optics).

But he was right on many things - not least saying A50 should not go ahead until we are closer to a deal. He also said Chequers was a bad deal (proven correct), and also that No 10 should not have moved the negotiatiors to the Cabinet Office under the PM instead of remaining under DexEU.

I’m not sure where you get the article 50 stuff from. Here’s what he was saying just a few weeks after the referendum.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.tele ... be-tr/amp/

Wrong on pretty much every level.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:11 am

David Davis, a man so half arsed his parents could barely be bothered to name him.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:26 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

only another 17 million to go, dry your eyes mate.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:29 am

Bit weird that May is asking the people to trust her on her deal but not actually doing anything that would mean that they could isn't it?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:57 am

AndyClaret wrote:only another 17 million to go, dry your eyes mate.

Interesting that as it was well on the way to its first million signatures in just a few hours the site is now "down for maintenance". (It's been down for about an hour now)
Very interesting. Why do you think that might be?

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:16 am

nil_desperandum wrote:Interesting that as it was well on the way to its first million signatures in just a few hours the site is now "down for maintenance". (It's been down for about an hour now)
Very interesting. Why do you think that might be?

go on, i love a good conspiracy theory.....

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:18 am

Don't think its a conspiracy theory Andy to be fair.

Why do websites crash normally?

Because of the amount of people trying to access it...........

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:22 am

android wrote:3 years gone, only a week to go and yet, all the main party leaders are tantalisingly close to their dream outcome:

May - Leave EU with her deal
Corbyn - Leave EU with no deal
SNP, Liberals, Tiggers - Revoke Article 50 and stay in EU

I always thought May's deal would pass eventually but I'm less confident in that opinion than at anytime (including when it was announced last year to widespread derision and when it lost by 230 votes). Madness.

Tell me more about the Tiggers..

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:25 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Brexiteers have always been quite clear about what they want though, they want out of the EU.

Or have we missed that part?

That's not really true though is it.

Look at all the brexiteers on here who are against May's deal. That is leaving the EU and they don't want it.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:33 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Don't think its a conspiracy theory Andy to be fair.

Why do websites crash normally?

Because of the amount of people trying to access it...........

Ahh, i thought "down for maintenance" meant that it had been deliberately taken down.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:36 am

Hey, it might be, but I think that is fairly unlikely.

Petitions are pointless, but at this moment anything that gets MPs minds on the task in hand is worth a go.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:39 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Hey, it might be, but I think that is fairly unlikely.

Petitions are pointless, but at this moment anything that gets MPs minds on the task in hand is worth a go.

To be honest it’s not worth the paper it isn’t written on. The site was set up to let people imagine they could influence parliament, but if they do have a debate they don’t vote on it so essentially it’s a waste of time.

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:41 am

If May want to get her deal through parliament then she should put it to the house at 7pm on Thursday 28th.

MPs will then have the option of her deal or a no deal exit.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:44 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Hey, it might be, but I think that is fairly unlikely.

Petitions are pointless, but at this moment anything that gets MPs minds on the task in hand is worth a go.

Maybe this was the reason it was taken down, foreign bots taking it over.

https://order-order.com/2019/03/21/fore ... ignatures/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:46 am

Yep.

Advisory referendum to leave v two non binding commons motions to reject a "No Deal" at the end of the day, and its basically down to the competence of the worst PM in history to which way we go.

I think if we'd prepared since Day 1 all over the country for a "No Deal" then it would be bad enough, but as we haven't........

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:48 am

I follow Guido Fawkes cos I like to see how the real Brexit fanatics are doing over their cornflakes.

As a news source, they are up there with Breitbart.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:54 am

: images.jpeg (6.29 KiB) Viewed 936 times

I think these 2 have had enough and are off

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:55 am

Always amazed me with those two on how they have such big rucksacks.

Why? Its not like they need any clothes is it?

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:59 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I follow Guido Fawkes cos I like to see how the real Brexit fanatics are doing over their cornflakes.

As a news source, they are up there with Breitbart.

They are on the same side as you and me though, they support May's deal.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:02 am

Only in the last couple of days Andy

Bang against it, and been reporting how ace all the other various schemes cooked up by the likes of the ERG have been.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:03 am

I keep hearing that no deal is going to be a complete disaster literally the second we leave. Explain to me how this is the case? Does trade just literally stop? Do the planes just stop? Do people just stop? Of course the answer is no. Even the EU have said so and that there will be a grace period. That is the time to sort out future trade relationships bilaterally with other countries. Nothing stops and burns I wish people would stop spouting so much **** about this.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:04 am

Great.

Course, if you could just give me some links so that I can be equally as assured as someone who has refused to see any downsides to Brexit since 2016 then there is nothing to worry about is there?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:11 am

I see uber luvvie and fully paid up dweller of the metropolitan London Borough of ivory towers Hugh Grant, has paused his kept in clover lifestyle for a momemt. He's announced he's signed a petition to stop democracy.

How dare the pitchfork weilding plebs threaten his right to cheap house cleaners, Au pairs, tradesmen. What right have those bumpkins to deny his food being brought to his reserved table in his Michelin star restaurants by people on zero hours or minimum wage, for lock tugging staff?

"“And it looks like every sane person in the country is signing too. National emergency.”

Insulting 17.4 million people and being hysterical simultaneously!

Anyway, this petition -

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/229963" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For all those that believe in democracy.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:13 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Great.

Course, if you could just give me some links so that I can be equally as assured as someone who has refused to see any downsides to Brexit since 2016 then there is nothing to worry about is there?

You mean the scaremongering that has infested our national media being managed by those who can’t and won’t accept the referendum result?

This “cliff edge” is scaremongering of the highest order. We aren’t going to grind to a halt far from it. Things inevitably will change but not absolutely immediately as the narrative being pushed suggests.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:16 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:I see uber luvvie and fully paid up dweller of the metropolitan London Borough of ivory towers Hugh Grant, has paused his kept in clover lifestyle for a momemt. He's announced he's signed a petition to stop democracy.

How dare the pitchfork weilding plebs threaten his right to cheap house cleaners, Au pairs, tradesmen. What right have those bumpkins to deny his food being brought to his reserved table in his Michelin star restaurants by people on zero hours or minimum wage, for lock tugging staff?

"“And it looks like every sane person in the country is signing too. National emergency.”

Insulting 17.4 million people and being hysterical simultaneously!

Anyway, this petition -

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/229963" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For all those that believe in democracy.

signed, and retweeted.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:17 am

You mean the scaremongering that has infested our national media being managed by those who can’t and won’t accept the referendum result?

This “cliff edge” is scaremongering of the highest order. We aren’t going to grind to a halt far from it. Things inevitably will change but not absolutely immediately as the narrative being pushed suggests.

Just some links will do.

I mean, you surely aren't just going to trust all the people who are telling you its a great idea? when you won't trust all the people who are telling you that its a bad idea?

There must be something that makes you so sure surely?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:18 am

Greenmile wrote:What does this even mean, if not racism and homophobia, which you've spent half the day denying?

The only other "PC label" I used was misogyny which, besides ending "gyny", is also a pretty outdated and terrible attitude to have.

Tell me Ringo, what are the "pathetic and predictable PC labels that end "phobic" or "ist" or "ism"" that you reckon are ok really, and the PC-police should just let us carry on displaying them?

The disciples of cultural Marxism forget many things. The most important thing they forget is that right minded people have a choice.

Whether or not they want to bend a knee at the alter of political correctness or not.....

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:22 am

Right_winger wrote:I keep hearing that no deal is going to be a complete disaster literally the second we leave. Explain to me how this is the case? Does trade just literally stop? Do the planes just stop? Do people just stop? Of course the answer is no. Even the EU have said so and that there will be a grace period. That is the time to sort out future trade relationships bilaterally with other countries. Nothing stops and burns I wish people would stop spouting so much **** about this.

I was talking to someone who works for the foreign office in the pub last night and this came up. An example he gave was that if a UK ship arrived in Japan on 1st April and we'd left on No Deal the ship wouldn't be allowed to unload its good as they wouldn't be covered by the current trade deal. I didn't enquire too deeply about the mechanics of it, it was part of a larger conversation, but I assume he knows more about it than most of us.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:28 am

aggi wrote:I was talking to someone who works for the foreign office in the pub last night and this came up. An example he gave was that if a UK ship arrived in Japan on 1st April and we'd left on No Deal the ship wouldn't be allowed to unload its good as they wouldn't be covered by the current trade deal. I didn't enquire too deeply about the mechanics of it, it was part of a larger conversation, but I assume he knows more about it than most of us.

Trade between WTO members is carried out under WTO terms unless there is an agreement between them. Japan and the UK are both members of the WTO. Did your foreign office chum explain why the WTO rules wouldn't apply in this case?

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:32 am

Well, that speech really was something else, wasn't it.

I can imagine her today, sat on her own in a dark room in Downing Street, ouija board by her side, trying to make contact with the ghost of Thomas Pride.