Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:41 pm

FT reporting that Mays going for a "No Deal" but that is a couple of hours old.

If the EU grant us a unilateral extension for even a few weeks that kills that though.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:44 pm

This is much more recent

"NEW: updated draft conclusions: 'EUCO agrees to an extension to 22 May, provided WA is approved by the HoC next week. If the WA is not approved by the HoC next week, EUCO agrees to an extension until 12 April, expects UK to indicate a way forward for the consideration of EUCO'

Really, really, really clever to be fair.

EU is united, we are not and it f**king shows.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:45 pm

summitclaret wrote:It's all unravelling now. Chec republic really worried about sales of Skodas. Like I said Leaders are what matters not unelected ***** like Juncker.

To be fair, a lot of Remain voters have been saying that for a long time. It's mainly the Leave voters who seem to think that the EU is some separate entity that isn't answerable to the constituent countries.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:49 pm

martin_p wrote:Political parties have rules, I would imagine the Tory party rules don’t allow that. And even if they did IDS would be about 315th choice with his colleagues.

We were discussing this in the pub last night (exciting I know but I was out with a lib dem party member and a tory party member) and our conclusion was similar, the MPs will magically only end up with one candidate and they'll get ushered straight into the job.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:51 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote: A) May’s deal by April 12th
B) No deal on April 12th
C) Extend A50 until unknown date but will be 2020+

I’ve changed my dates based on the latest news coming out.

Seems like a MV4 will be held in 3 weeks.

I do chastise myself of falling into the same trap that all the reporters have done in calling it “May’s deal”. It is of course the EU28’s deal, including May and I suspect that is the problem.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:54 pm

Bet you £5 that May delays her deal to the last possible moment, and comes up with some parliamentary shenanigans to make sure nothing else is considered?

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:56 pm

aggi wrote:We were discussing this in the pub last night (exciting I know but I was out with a lib dem party member and a tory party member) and our conclusion was similar, the MPs will magically only end up with one candidate and they'll get ushered straight into the job.

Not this time.

I am a Tory member, until conference then I will join the SDP, a better home for my beliefs.

I suspect this time the membership will insist on a true choice. The MP Johnny Mercer is already sounding off about it saying it should be 4 candidates put to members. By stitching it up last time they have blotted their copybook. It’s possible I accept that they will carry on regardless though.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:58 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:This is much more recent

"NEW: updated draft conclusions: 'EUCO agrees to an extension to 22 May, provided WA is approved by the HoC next week. If the WA is not approved by the HoC next week, EUCO agrees to an extension until 12 April, expects UK to indicate a way forward for the consideration of EUCO'

Really, really, really clever to be fair.

EU is united, we are not and it f**king shows.

You can only see it being an extension until May 22nd.

They won't want this dragging on after the EU elections on May 23rd.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:00 pm

Think that is fair

We'll either have agreed to Mays deal or worked out something else by then.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:01 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:This is much more recent

"NEW: updated draft conclusions: 'EUCO agrees to an extension to 22 May, provided WA is approved by the HoC next week. If the WA is not approved by the HoC next week, EUCO agrees to an extension until 12 April, expects UK to indicate a way forward for the consideration of EUCO'

Really, really, really clever to be fair.

EU is united, we are not and it f**king shows.

The carrot of no deal, but delayed a couple of weeks, is dangled again. That’s the end for the WA.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:04 pm

The carrot of no deal, but delayed a couple of weeks, is dangled again. That’s the end for the WA.

Not sure it is to be honest.

Brexit supporters in the H of C must understand that the H of C can take control away here in favour of an alternative Brexit plan.

They won't risk that surely? (again! They got away with it by one vote last time)

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:08 pm

martin_p wrote:The carrot of no deal, but delayed a couple of weeks, is dangled again. That’s the end for the WA.

I read it more as the stick, giving MPs a window to time to force the real business of GE/2nd ref through. Can't see MV4 being tabled. It's MV3 passes or there's a new govt. April 12th gives time to act and inform the EU (request further delay). EU has played its hand rather well.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:25 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Isn't it Ireland that are already in financial trouble?

One of a small group of countries with the acronym P.I.G.S?
Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain that are all on their arses financially??

It was a while ago that I read about that story though I'll admit.

Up s**t creek neck high still recovering, small mercies the stench of kenco was overpowering.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:28 pm

Taken from The Guardian about May’s meeting with the EU leaders

‘One aide is quoted as saying:

She didn’t even give clarity if she is organising a vote. Asked three times what she would do if she lost the vote, she couldn’t say. It was awful. Dreadful. Evasive even by her standards.

When leaders asked May what she was going to do if her deal was voted down, an official added that the prime minister replied that she was following her ‘Plan A’ of getting it through.

It was then the EU decided that “she didn’t have a plan so they needed to come up with one for her”, the source added.’

Seriously embarrassing.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:33 pm

Unanimous agreement from EU27 on the response to the request. Full details will emerge later, but it sounds as though the brexiteer fantasies - EU27 division, capitulation - won't come to pass. Shocked, I tell you!

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:35 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I was listening to radio 4 on the way to work.
Cannot remember the country who’ MP was on.
But he said after Ireland his country would be the second hardest hit by No Deal.
He was really angry about how parliament had treated the EU,
He felt that the drop n his country GDP and the increased unemployment was a worthwhile price to pay to set the UK adrift.

He wanted it over so the damage would be done and then he could work with the EU to recover.

Our Government is playing a dangerous game.

If the EU really wanted free trade with the UK, they could have agreed it years ago. But what the EU really wanted was to punish the UK for leaving, and make it such an unpleasant process that no-one else would want to leave.

And the result is that for the UK to get free trade with the EU and vice versa, the deal the EU agreed was so abysmally bad for the UK that even the pro-Remain House of Commons wouldn't agree it. So the EU risks losing its free and open access to the UK market, just as we risk losing our free and open access to theirs.

And what hasn't been emphasised enough is that, although the EU as a whole is bigger than the UK and therefore, as a whole, loses out by less (relatively speaking); the 27 constituent parts are not bigger than the UK and so many of them are losing out quite significantly. Ireland especially. It would have been better for Ireland if they had recognised that they were in the front line, and not hitched their wagon quite so firmly to the "EU must be right" bandwagon.

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:39 pm

No extension either if there is not a clear majority to give a mandate on the future relationship,

Hell of a climb down from Macron from his earlier comments. Capitulation indeed, Spiral.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:39 pm

IanMcL wrote:The pound dropped 20+%, is that not enough for starters?
House prices flattened, as folk afraid.
London haemorrhaging companies....that's jobs and income.

It's on it's way....the plug is out of the bath.

House prices flattened? Good. They need to remain stable for years; if they do, then the first time buyers will more easily make a start in the market, the people who already own one house become neither richer nor poorer, and the people who own two or more will get poorer because their asset doesn't go up with inflation. We don't want house prices to fall because that leads to debt problems for people with mortgages; but we don't want them to rise.

At least, that's my view from right of centre. Doesn't the left of centre agree?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:42 pm

Think you are clutching at straws there Darth

Farage and his ilk were reporting as fact yesterday that Macron would block all this.

Its really, really, really important that people report what is actually going on, rather than wishful thinking.

EU are united, and we are not.

We have to become united, and that isn't No deal or even Mays deal I suspect.

Problem we have is that its painfully obvious that we are in deep ****, and more and more people are realising it.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:46 pm

Over 2 million votes in 24 hours for this petition thingy btw

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:49 pm

Not really though Lancs. Surely you have to see that Macron has blinked here?

He’s given it big böllocks and been told by the other 26 to get back in his box.

I’m not suggesting that the EU are about to relent and offer an amazing deal, just that their ultimatums may not be on as solid ground as some individuals within think.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:49 pm

Been out all day think I was on page 94 when I left, did I miss much

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:53 pm

I would normally agree Darth, but I've been reading a lot of Brexit leaning narrative over the last 24 hours that he was going to block it. Not a lot of that was reported by the more mainstream media sites so I suspect it was wishful thinking.

I know France is a lot more sanguine about a "No Deal" but it will take a huge hit, and Macron ain't daft. A deal is better than a "No Deal". Always was, always will be.

Mays agreed to this btw, so the ERG bleating to all their contacts shouldn't make a difference this time*

*shouldn't, but we are talking about the most incompetent PM for decades

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:53 pm

Darthlaw wrote:Hell of a climb down from Macron from his earlier comments. Capitulation indeed, Spiral.

Yep a whole extra two weeks before no deal. Hell of a climb down.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:54 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Think you are clutching at straws there Darth

Farage and his ilk were reporting as fact yesterday that Macron would block all this.

Its really, really, really important that people report what is actually going on, rather than wishful thinking.

EU are united, and we are not.

We have to become united, and that isn't No deal or even Mays deal I suspect.

Problem we have is that its painfully obvious that we are in deep ****, and more and more people are realising it.

“EU are united, and we are not”. This is true & the only reason behind that is that from the 24th June 2016 1 side has not united to the detriment of the current proposals, our hand has been weakened by this, had everybody united we’d be in the driving seat.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:57 pm

If there had been compromise in 2016, this would all be over.

But there wasn't, and we are where we are.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:57 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:“EU are united, and we are not”. This is true & the only reason behind that is that from the 24th June 2016 1 side has not united to the detriment of the current proposals, our hand has been weakened by this, had everybody united we’d be in the driving seat.

Yep, the ERG have really ****ed this up.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:58 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Over 2 million votes in 24 hours for this petition thingy btw

And probably twice that number who are still either currently trying to sign up, or who have signed but haven't received the email reply to confirm yet.
The site only seems to be able to add a few thousand every minute.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:58 pm

Delay agreed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47660019" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:01 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I would normally agree Darth, but I've been reading a lot of Brexit leaning narrative over the last 24 hours that he was going to block it. Not a lot of that was reported by the more mainstream media sites so I suspect it was wishful thinking.

I’m going off his own words (which I quoted) rather than reports though. He’s gone within 6 hours from “May’s deal or no deal” hard talk, to “May’s deal or come back in a few weeks with another idea please, because we don’t want no deal”.

Either way May’s goosed the chances of her deal so we’ll see who’s going to blink next.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:02 pm

martin_p wrote:Yep, the ERG have really ****ed this up.

Why the hell would she compromise any more than her compromise deal. It is obviously one because no one likes it.

Having just seen tweddle dee and tweddle dum at the press conference taking the **** out if us i say **** them.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:06 pm

I’m going off his own words (which I quoted) rather than reports though. He’s gone within 6 hours from “May’s deal or no deal” hard talk, to “May’s deal or come back in a few weeks with another idea please, because we don’t want no deal”.

You are reading too much into them though!

One thing we've all learnt by now is that politicians say one thing to the press, and when it gets down to it, something else.

Macron and the EU know that we have to sort this out ourselves, and can't give the Brexit extremists a chance to derail this into a disaster.

We have to sort this out ourselves, and the EU have pulled us back from the edge.

I hope we have a mature and sensible enough democracy to sort this now.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:08 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote: I hope we have a mature and sensible enough democracy to sort this now.

Oh bugger!

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:14 pm

Greenmile wrote:This is ironic, coming from the guy who believes every word that convicted fraudster “Tommy Robinson” says on YouTube

Could you please substantiate this wild statement with fact?

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:14 pm

We have to sort this out ourselves, and the EU have pulled us back from the edge.

Let’s not pretend the EU have saved us from ourselves here, they stand to be hurt by no deal too (particularly Ireland)and have rightly backed down.

Let’s just hope both sides can start making concessions here for a modicum of progress.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:14 pm

A chest-thumping French president isn't exactly a novel concept, and of course he's climbed down from his earlier ultimatums (there's a French domestic angle which likely informs the image he tries to project), but the narrative of the eleventh-hour capitulation to UK demands that read like little more than political fan-fiction has taken a blow tonight. Rather than bending, the EU, if anything, is now accommodating our desperation.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:16 pm

Let’s not pretend the EU have saved us from ourselves here, they stand to be hurt by no deal too (particularly Ireland)and have rightly backed down.

Let’s just hope both sides can start making concessions here for a modicum of progress.

The journos are reporting that the EU statement is really clever, and can be spun as an EU climbdown, even though it isn't.

I think its a bit of brilliant political speak, and if it means May can present this as a win, then its even better than that.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:18 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:This is much more recent

"NEW: updated draft conclusions: 'EUCO agrees to an extension to 22 May, provided WA is approved by the HoC next week. If the WA is not approved by the HoC next week, EUCO agrees to an extension until 12 April, expects UK to indicate a way forward for the consideration of EUCO'

Really, really, really clever to be fair.

EU is united, we are not and it f**king shows.

Incredible.

They pulled that out of the bag in a couple of hours, whereas we've had two years and come up with nothing.

We should scrap Parliament and cede all sovereignty to the EU.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:20 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:Incredible.

They pulled that out of the bag in a couple of hours, whereas we've had two years and come up with nothing.

We should scrap Parliament and cede all sovereignty to the EU.

With Johnny Bercow ruling over us as the EU Governor for the UK

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:27 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:With Johnny Bercow ruling over us as the EU Governor for the UK

Gina Miller as proxy Home Secretary with James O’Brien as media spokesman.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:52 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:One thing for certain, whether you agree with her evidence backed argument or not, she is absolutely no "fruitcake". In fact she is better qualified to give a lecture on this than 99.9% of the population.
Fair enough if you don't agree with her, but she can't be dismissed as some kind of bonkers freak-show, she's a top lecturer in economics with degrees at Oxford and Cambridge.
Why did she take he clothes off?, ..... in order to get her lecture on social media of course. Would anyone outside that lecture hall have listened to her otherwise?

If you have to resort to shedding your clothes off before anybody takes you seriously constitutes a shortfall in all other approaches & smacks of indecency.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:59 pm

..."And I would walk 500,000 miles to Kazakhstan to watch Scotland in the Euros rather than vote for Brexit".

Hey, we Remainers are the true patriots of the UK, cede all power, sovereignty and democratic rights to the 4th Reich of Eurasia and see you all in Cuckoo Baku..., you Leavers are all NAZIS!!!!!!

Dazzler · Post by **Dazzler** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:11 am

="CrosspoolClaret"4. The EU "sticking to their red lines" and not humiliating us. How is that explained by Martin Selmayr's overheard comment that losing Northern Ireland would be the price the EU would make Britain pay for Brexit? They have gone out of their way to cause problems and many of our MPs and former MPs have been in cahoots with them, flying over to advise.

Ah yeah,Mr Selmayr.
You remainers have kept quiet about him..

Can't recall where but I've read somewhere that he has big plans for the UK ......none of them to our advantage though.

Any of you remainers care to enlighten us on this chap?

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:39 am

"The EU are sticking together" roughly translates as "Merkel has decided"

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:58 am

Jakubclaret wrote:“EU are united, and we are not”. This is true & the only reason behind that is that from the 24th June 2016 1 side has not united to the detriment of the current proposals, our hand has been weakened by this, had everybody united we’d be in the driving seat.

I DID NOT MEAN TO CLICK ON LIKE!!!!!!!!!!!............how the hell do you edit on here?

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:05 am

Taffy on the wing wrote:I DID NOT MEAN TO CLICK ON LIKE!!!!!!!!!!!............how the hell do you edit on here?

You are really coming around to my way of thinking, better just admitting.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:08 am

Well we’ve certainly taken back control so far haven’t we.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:55 am

Jakubclaret wrote:Could you please substantiate this wild statement with fact?

Took you a while to come up with this.

Here you go, though

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... =2&t=37312" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:02 am

Greenmile wrote:Took you a while to come up with this.

Here you go, though

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... =2&t=37312" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I’m afraid that’s a really poor attempt at answering the question, I’d like to know why I allegedly “believe everything” Tommy Robinson says? The only thing I’ve claimed to believe is Tommy Robinson defence regarding the stuchberry incident with far left wing activists & jihadi lawyers harassing him & his family.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:04 am

Jakubclaret wrote:I’m afraid that’s a really poor attempt at answering the question, I’d like to know why I allegedly “believe everything” Tommy Robinson says? The only thing I’ve claimed to believe is Tommy Robinson defence regarding the stuchberry incident with far left wing activists & jihadi lawyers harassing him & his family.

Find me a post where you state you don’t believe something he’s said and I’ll happily retract my statement.

Edit - here’s another thread where you show your support for him (I could do this all day, but I have a job to go to)

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... 4&p=787424" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;