Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:56 pm

I've signed it as J.C Junker
It's all irrelevant anyway. Your leader has spoken
Check out @JewishTelegraph’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/JewishTelegraph/sta ... 52065?s=09" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:57 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:By now, only one vote will have registered, the other four will have been removed.

Its all down in the t & cs

Please explain that. Complete rubbish.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:00 pm

Going of what I've read taio.

They estimate that 95% of all votes on these things are iffy (thats the official petitions website)

I'll try to find a link (looking at it this aft and its long gone!)

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:01 pm

This one

https://twitter.com/HoCpetitions/status ... 1180227584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:01 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Going of what I've read taio.

They estimate that 95% of all votes on these things are iffy (thats the official petitions website)

I'll try to find a link (looking at it this aft and its long gone!)

I'd be interested to know how you think it's not possible to sign the petition four times.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:02 pm

There is literally nothing that says it's anything other than one vote per email.
Anyone saying votes will be deleted is being really silly as per usual.

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:03 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:This one

https://twitter.com/HoCpetitions/status ... 1180227584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vague and meaningless.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:03 pm

Damo, just retweeted this zinger on twitter

"Spend all my life trying to write comedy and I’ll never write anything as funny as “Prime Minister, I predicted your victory when I showed you Winston Churchill’s spoon on my Cadillac, which I asked you to touch”.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:05 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:This one

https://twitter.com/HoCpetitions/status ... 1180227584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That doesn't back up your claim in the slightest sorry

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:06 pm

Vague and meaningless.

****, I only went and found the official twitter feed of the petitions committee but thats "vague and meaningless"

For example, I'd be amazed if five e-mail addresses from the same location wouldn't trigger any simple checking device.

But no, its got to be fixed.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:07 pm

That doesn't back up your claim in the slightest sorry

"in the slightest"

It does actually.

Do I know for sure that CC e-mails have been deleted? No

Can I make a reasonable assumption that they have? Yes

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:08 pm

And the important point is here is that a lot of people have bothered their arse signing it.

You can ignore it if you so wish, but I'm not sure all MPs will, and this could be sorted down to one or two votes.

Which is why I think its important.

Quick question, if it was so easy to game, why is the leave one 3.5 million votes behind?

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:09 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:****, I only went and found the official twitter feed of the petitions committee but thats "vague and meaningless"

For example, I'd be amazed if five e-mail addresses from the same location wouldn't trigger any simple checking device.

But no, its got to be fixed.

The official site is, as I say, meaningless. I've signed three times and had three validation emails. it's naive in the extreme to think someone can sign it just once.

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:10 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:And the important point is here is that a lot of people have bothered their arse signing it.

You can ignore it if you so wish, but I'm not sure all MPs will, and this could be sorted down to one or two votes.

Which is why I think its important.

Quick question, if it was so easy to game, why is the leave one 3.5 million votes behind?

I don't want Brexit. But you'd have to be particularly stupid to think this petition should have a bearing on the outcome.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:12 pm

Ha! Brexit is proper stuffed now.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ?CMP=fb_gu

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:13 pm

On its own, completely agree, even though you are implying that you think I'm stupid!

But its that plus everything else.

It all adds up.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:14 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:And the important point is here is that a lot of people have bothered their arse signing it.

You can ignore it if you so wish, but I'm not sure all MPs will, and this could be sorted down to one or two votes.

Which is why I think its important.

Quick question, if it was so easy to game, why is the leave one 3.5 million votes behind?

Because the leave one was an actual vote, that resulted in what we have now. Not a desperate attempt at a second referendum via the medium of a pointless website

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:15 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Damo, just retweeted this zinger on twitter

"Spend all my life trying to write comedy and I’ll never write anything as funny as “Prime Minister, I predicted your victory when I showed you Winston Churchill’s spoon on my Cadillac, which I asked you to touch”.

Parody is dead mate. Reality is much more amusing, and much more outlandish

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:16 pm

Which leavers have fallen over themselves to discredit

If it was ignored, I'd understand it, but there has been proper hatchet jobs on it today from all the Brexit headbangers.

I 100% get where you are coming from, but I think its bothering those in Brexit more than you are letting on*

*and i suspect a lot of that is from the shock of the reality of what happened in the EU yesterday.

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:19 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:On its own, completely agree, even though you are implying that you think I'm stupid!

But its that plus everything else.

It all adds up.

You've spent the best part of three years of your life saying how messed up this country is because of our political system and democracy. If you seriously think petitions such as this should be at the heart of our governance and decision making and is what should happen then, yes, we are truly ******.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:19 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Which leavers have fallen over themselves to discredit

If it was ignored, I'd understand it, but there has been proper hatchet jobs on it today from all the Brexit headbangers.

I 100% get where you are coming from, but I think its bothering those in Brexit more than you are letting on*

*and i suspect a lot of that is from the shock of the reality of what happened in the EU yesterday.

Wait, what? Are Brexiters taking Uri Geller seriously? Do they think Remainers take him seriously, or something?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:20 pm

taio wrote:You've spent the best part of three years of your life saying how messed up this country is because of our political system and democracy. If you seriously think petitions such as this should be at the heart of our governance and decision making and is what should happen then, yes, we are truly ******.

Calm your tits. The petition only sparks a debate, you daft ****. No one's saying that it's going to become the new Magna Carta.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:20 pm

martin_p wrote:Ha! Brexit is proper stuffed now.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ?CMP=fb_gu

If Uri was in Breitbart saying he'd make Brexit happen Smudge would be out dancing in his front street cracking open the Babycham

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:22 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Calm your tits. The petition only sparks a debate, you daft ****. No one's saying that it's going to become the new Magna Carta.

When did I suggest that you daft ****

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:22 pm

You've spent the best part of three years of your life saying how messed up this country is because of our political system and democracy. If you seriously think petitions such as this should be at the heart of our governance and decision making and is what should happen then, yes, we are truly ******.

Yup. Because it has. Are you saying it hasn't?

I've said three times on this page that this doesn't count, but its shows something.

You decided that means

"If you seriously think petitions such as this should be at the heart of our governance and decision making and is what should happen then"

Thats the response I'd expect from the Brexit loon jobs on here, not you.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:24 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:If Uri was in Breitbart saying he'd make Brexit happen Smudge would be out dancing in his front street cracking open the Babycham

If Uri was a Brexiteer he wouldn’t even be close to being one of their biggest fantasists.

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:26 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Yup. Because it has. Are you saying it hasn't?

I've said three times on this page that this doesn't count, but its shows something.

You decided that means

"If you seriously think petitions such as this should be at the heart of our governance and decision making and is what should happen then"

Thats the response I'd expect from the Brexit loon jobs on here, not you.

You're good at searching the media on such matters. Are you saying there aren't plenty of people suggesting the petition shouldn't have an influence on what happens from this point?

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:27 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:If Uri was in Breitbart saying he'd make Brexit happen Smudge would be out dancing in his front street cracking open the Babycham

Babycham horrible stuff if I remember rightly

I wish Uri would stop brexit so we can get the nationalism cracking on ..

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:29 pm

You're good at searching the media on such matters. Are you saying there aren't plenty of people suggesting the petition shouldn't have influence what happens from this point?

Of course they are, but as I've also said the Brexit heavyweights have really gone for this.

The underlying trend is that remain/pv/revocation (which was absolutely nowhere six months ago) is really gaining ground, and the petition is a sign of that.

You get that yeah?

keith1879 · Post by **keith1879** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:32 pm

taio wrote:When did I suggest that you daft ****

In post 5120 (not in so many words ...but I think Turtle's sarcasm was justified)

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:33 pm

taio wrote:When did I suggest that you daft ****

"If you seriously think petitions such as this should be at the heart of our governance and decision making and is what should happen then, yes, we are truly ******."

Literally no one is suggesting it should be the heart of anything. You're arguing against strawmen.

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:35 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Of course they are, but as I've also said the Brexit heavyweights have really gone for this.

The underlying trend is that remain/pv/revocation (which was absolutely nowhere six months ago) is really gaining ground, and the petition is a sign of that.

You get that yeah?

Always going to happen as I've said since day one.

I remember recently a handful of people interoggating someone on here about the reliability of evidence.

Oh yes I get it - I told you months ago A50 would be extended. You said I was talking shite. I get it.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:35 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... IP4GnIDkcI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More bad news

All I'm saying is that all these things have an effect, and if it goes down to a few votes on either side, this stuff could be crucial.

But I do like the idea of these petitions being Magna Carta for 2019!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:38 pm

Always going to happen as I've said since day one.

I remember recently a handful of people interoggating someone on here about the reliability of evidence.

Oh yes I get it - I told you months ago A50 would be extended. You said I was talking shite. I get it.

Don't you think it would be easier just to go "Fair play LC, I overreacted a bit to you mentioning the petitions"?

Quick edit

I remember saying a Norway deal was the most likely destination, and you poo pooing that.

I reckon any option is still perfectly possible.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:39 pm

SmudgetheClaret wrote:Babycham horrible stuff if I remember rightly I wish Uri would stop brexit so we can get the nationalism cracking on ..

He just came right out and said it.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:39 pm

Having a play with the petition data, I see there are 1,714 signatures from Burnley. I wonder how many are from folk on here?

P.s. worth saying, I don’t condone petition fraud, I simply experimented with an immaterial number of votes for a cause opposite to which I believe, to test how robust the technological approach is. As it stands, yes, they could have been removed (though I note the 18 from North Korea haven’t been) but I haven’t had any emails to that effect.

P.p.s. I recall that the similar one in 2016 attracted over 3m signatures too.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:42 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Having a play with the petition data, I see there are 1,714 signatures from Burnley. I wonder how many are from folk on here?

P.s. worth saying, I don’t condone petition fraud, I simply experimented with an immaterial number of votes for a cause opposite to which I believe, to test how robust the technological approach is. As it stands, yes, they could have been removed (though I note the 18 from North Korea haven’t been) but I haven’t had any emails to that effect.

P.p.s. I recall that the similar one in 2016 attracted over 3m signatures too.

I believe British citizens around the world are allowed to sign these petitions. And I imagine British citizens in DPRK will likely be working for us and have internet access.
Though i'd be surprised if all 18 were legit.

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:46 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Don't you think it would be easier just to go "Fair play LC, I overreacted a bit to you mentioning the petitions"?

Easier than what? Proving you wrong again couldn't be easier.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:49 pm

Nope, you have massively over reacted to me pointing out that you've drawn an unfair and incorrect assumption from my posts on the petition.

Thought you were a bit bigger than that, but hey ho.

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:54 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Nope, you have massively over reacted to me pointing out that you've drawn an unfair and incorrect assumption from my posts on the petition.

Thought you were a bit bigger than that, but hey ho.

Lancasterclaret wrote:Porn at a guess

OK.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:56 pm

Yeah, clearly serious!

Whatever eh?

You've made stuff up on this thread to claim something that wasn't anything like I said.

Which two other posters have pointed out.

Up to you mate, but its Ringo esq

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:16 pm

Putting my statistician hat on, I’ve had another think about the data.

Burnley has signatures equivalent to 2% of constituents. Brighton is 18%. That is the Leave / Remain pattern across the country in the petition data. My own constituency is 11%.

So if Brighton is 9x Burnley, we would expect 2x given that Brighton had virtually double the portion of Remainers in 2016 (68% vs 34%).

That leaves me with two possibilities. Either Remain areas are getting some kind of extra momentum in heavy Remain areas (unlikely as a local campaign would only be happening in a few constituencies at best), or the voting is dodgy by a factor of 4.5x (meaning the true number would be under 1m).

A third possibility is that Remain voters simply care more in Brighton, and that would suit my long standing hypothesis that many Remainers around the U.K. were reluctant, due to economic fears in 2016, with no love of the EU.

I’m tired, it’s been a long day so I may have it wrong, but my analysis of this petition doesn’t persuade me that Remain has seen a huge swing compared to 2016. I agree with Lancs, MPs will be influenced by it, but only because most of them are too dim to understand the truth.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:19 pm

I'll take that!

Seriously though, its a good boost for remain AND for Mays deal. Its just a shame that Mays attack on the MPs this week was so badly handled.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:23 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:And the important point is here is that a lot of people have bothered their arse signing it.

You can ignore it if you so wish, but I'm not sure all MPs will, and this could be sorted down to one or two votes.

Which is why I think its important.

Quick question, if it was so easy to game, why is the leave one 3.5 million votes behind?

Because leavers want a free trade deal not no deal.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:31 pm

summitclaret wrote:Because leavers want a free trade deal not no deal.

What all 17.4 million of them?
That's the problem. Despite all you will protest there were a wide range of expectations from leavers in 2016.
If they all wanted a free trade deal, (inc. the ERG), then May's deal would have passed by now.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:04 am

nil_desperandum wrote:What all 17.4 million of them?
That's the problem. Despite all you will protest there were a wide range of expectations from leavers in 2016.
If they all wanted a free trade deal, (inc. the ERG), then May's deal would have passed by now.

What!!! I am convinced that the vast majority of leave voters wanted to take back control of our money, borders and laws etc. May's deal does not and a CU or SM arrangement won't either.

Her deal was and is a fudge because the cabinet was split. The civil service will have pushed her as well in particular ths Treasury.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:24 am

Uri Gellar just sounds like your average remoaner.
You lot are beyond parody now

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:15 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:And we've changed our mind, and polling has consistently shown for a long time now. So when you think about it, it's actually your lot who are frightened of a ballot box potentially affirming those polls that show our mind has changed. Such anti-democrats that you are.

Not according to polling expert John Curtis, it depends on the question you ask, and some have been asking the "do you want a public vote" question without explicitly saying remain would be on the ballot paper.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:54 am

They might just edge it, 3 years it's only natural some of the older voters might have passed away, it'd be absolutely disgraceful not honouring there choice whilst alive.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:41 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Having a play with the petition data, I see there are 1,714 signatures from Burnley. I wonder how many are from folk on here?

P.s. worth saying, I don’t condone petition fraud, I simply experimented with an immaterial number of votes for a cause opposite to which I believe, to test how robust the technological approach is. As it stands, yes, they could have been removed (though I note the 18 from North Korea haven’t been) but I haven’t had any emails to that effect.

P.p.s. I recall that the similar one in 2016 attracted over 3m signatures too.

You tried it twice to see if it would let you, then though oh I’ll do it a third time just to check. You then thought I’ll check again a forth time, oh look that’s worked. Just to be absolutely sure I’ll try it a 5th time.

Sounds plausible.