Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:00 pm

I think the point that the Brexit voters on here make is that its all magically going to be ok if we all just believe.

I need slightly more than that, and repeated requests for evidence of the sunlit uplands have gone from its going to be better to its going to be a lot worse, and thats what we voted for, and we can never vote for it again.

The compromise that I've backed since it came about is now dead in the water, and I'm not convinced that whatever happens is going to be good for the UK.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:03 pm

I think the point Sid is making, is that the 17.4 million who placed their tick in the Leave box in 2016 have already ‘marched’. Fair play to all those who went to London today though, they’re welcome to voice their displeasure at the democratic decision. Luckily, it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference if 1.5 % of our population marches on the capital, because of how our democracy works.

Nothing to do with the point that sid was making, which was that we all need to get behind brexit and it magically becomes better.

Thats why I said he doesn't know what he's talking about, because that is clearly untrue.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:04 pm

It's only delivering the Venkys because of the disarray caused in the main by remainers refusing to respect the vote result.

Okay, you said "in the main"

Still needs you to back that up. Which you can't. Because its not true. And if you knew what you were talking about, you would know that.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:05 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:It's only delivering the Venkys because of the disarray caused in the main by remainers refusing to respect the vote result.

What disarray have the remainers caused?

As far as I can see, the leave-focused Tory government alone are stuffing this one up for you.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:09 pm

The only real, undisputable fact that has come from all of this is that if there had been a minimum IQ threshold to vote of say 30-50 then the referendum result would have been 100% remain.

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:11 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm not convinced that whatever happens is going to be good for the UK.

Im convicted whatever happens next is going to be bad for the UK. This is it now, we have two options:

Leave the EU, preserve confidence in the democratic process of the UK whilst damaging the UK economy. The degree of damage dictated by the nature of our exit.

Remain in the EU via revocation of article 50 or a second referendum - destroy confidence in our democracy but mitigate damage done to the economy whilst retaining current EU veto rights. Simultaneously we’ll have shown our dependence on the EU allowing carte Blanche for any future decisions made by them.

Also we set a precedent that future referendums may be ignored.

We’re fecked, either way.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:11 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote: Should we the British take to the streets to complain, German and France troops will suppress us as an EU army.

I don’t thing I will be around when this happens, but it’s what you you want.

"I voted to leave based upon an alternate future science fiction novel I wrote"

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:14 pm

Kinda agree Darth, but to me a ****** economy will result in more damage than people getting even more ****** off with politicians.

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:16 pm

It’s not being ****** off with politicians though, it’s the loss of confidence in the process. 17.4 million people who will have been ignored.

Take the second option and every future referendum can be ignored should parliament decide it’s not in the interests of the country. Essentially referendums become null and void in future. That’s just plain dangerous.

FWIW, there’s no correct answer here.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:19 pm

There won't be any more referendums after the Brexit ones.

There absolutely should never be another one.

They do far too much damage.

To do this level of constitutional change, it has to be absolutely overwhelming and everybody has to vote without fail.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:24 pm

Ones? plural I notice

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:25 pm

I appreciate their shouldn’t be any more but I’ll throw one into the mix - proportional representation.

The UK public vote for it, yet the UK government decide it would not be in our interests and would damage governance of the country. The precedent has been set so they ignore the public.

How about another indyref for Scotland but this time they vote to leave, UK government decide it will irrevocably damage the people of Scotland’s economy and (as they have a duty to UK citizens) ignore the result.

Question is which is the lesser of two evils? Damage to the economy, which we may recover from although most predictions suggest we won’t. Alternatively damage our democracy, at least for this generation, however it would be naive to suggest this won’t be taught in schools in the future.

It seems May’s deal was the least damaging option in all this and she’s nicely stuffed it up on the home stretch.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:26 pm

You are all jumping to conclusions atm. The ERG want May out before trade discussions. If she agrees to go now she can save brexit and stop the tory party from splitting. I think she will go in the next 2 days.

The Government needs to stop the HOC from taking over and the indicative votes. Thr only way to do that is get a deal through this week.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:28 pm

Oh I fully agree that its an idea that will annoy everybody, but we've done **** all else as a country for two years, and even if we leave with a deal, we'll do **** all else for another ten.

Mays deal would have passed if the ERG didn't think they could force a "No Deal" and if Lab didn't think they could force a "GE".

But hey ho, we are so ****** now its untrue.

I;m logging off to watch some C4 box sets and I've been on the bike, football training with the boys and painting fences, and I've had it.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:29 pm

Darthlaw wrote: FWIW, there’s no correct answer here.

The correct answer was not to ask the public a binary question on an incredibly complex, multi-leveled and nuanced situation. One which even the Minister for Brexit can't comprehend (see Dover/Calais).

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:29 pm

summitclaret wrote:You are all jumping to conclusions atm. The ERG want May out before trade discussions. If she agrees to go now she can save brexit and stop the tory party from splitting. I think she will go in the next 2 days.

The Government needs to stop the HOC from taking over and the indicative votes. Thr only way to do that is get a deal through this week.

Well if that’s true I sincerely hope she stays.

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:33 pm

Combat, the Tories were massively voted in on the promise of a referendum. We, the public, played our part in this debacle.

Even in the snap election the Lib Dems, being the only party opposing brexit, lost overall vote share so can we keep totally pointing the finger entirely elsewhere?

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:37 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Nothing to do with the point that sid was making,

You're right, because the silly sausage got the name wrong and was talking about my post and not Sid's.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:50 pm

Darthlaw wrote:Combat, the Tories were massively voted in on the promise of a referendum. We, the public, played our part in this debacle.

People voted for a vote they didn't understand. General election or referendum the point is the same.

When Vote Leave staffers and the Minister for Brexit don't fully understand the situation then something prior has gone horribly wrong.

Burnleybabe · Post by **Burnleybabe** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:56 pm

Cant be arsed reading the thread.
The vote was put to the people
We voted out
Now the people that so called represent us are stopping what the people they represent want
How is that right
Leave with a deal or no deal we managed before the EU, we can do it again.
After all the people you so call represent voted for it.
That shows they think they know better than who they are suppose to represent.
All off then are in it for themselves not for us.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:59 pm

Burnleybabe wrote:Cant be arsed reading the thread.

A perfect example of why such complex questions should not be left to the general public.

How many of us decided to read the Good Friday Agreement before voting..?

Burnleybabe · Post by **Burnleybabe** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:03 pm

I made my decision through reading a lot of information not easily found.
I am a cow not a sheep
work that one out.
My Son and Daughter accepted I would not just take the derision lightly
and understood and accepted my vote.
I actually value their opinion, but not yours.
After all they know me and you do not.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:05 pm

Burnleybabe wrote:I made my decision through reading a lot of information not easily found.
I am a cow not a sheep
work that one out.

I don't doubt you did a lot of reading.
Care to post this information so it can be factually verified, especially if it's so hard to find it should be of great importance?

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:08 pm

Burnleybabe wrote: After all the people you so call represent voted for it.
That shows they think they know better than who they are suppose to represent.

You’d expect that to be true when it came to the EU. I’m fairly confident my MP will have a better idea than me as to the benefits or otherwise of the EU.

Burnleybabe · Post by **Burnleybabe** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:12 pm

CombatClaret wrote:I don't doubt you did a lot of reading.
Care to post this information so it can be factually verified, especially if it's so hard to find it should be of great importance?

No you find it as I did it is out there, if you bother do do your research.

Not usually on page or 2 or Google

Burnleybabe · Post by **Burnleybabe** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:14 pm

martin_p wrote:You’d expect that to be true when it came to the EU. I’m fairly confident my MP will have a better idea than me as to the benefits or otherwise of the EU.

You having a laugh self interest.
Wow what a stupid reply

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:14 pm

Burnleybabe wrote:No you find it as I did it is out there, if you bother do do your research.
Not usually on page or 2 or Google

So you voted to leave based on information you are unwilling to share?

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:24 pm

Burnleybabe wrote:You having a laugh self interest.
Wow what a stupid reply

So tell me then, what does the average MP get out of us being in the EU?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:50 pm

Burnleybabe wrote: My Son and Daughter accepted I would not just take the derision lightly
.

Quite rightly so too... no matter how daft your post is.
Of course you would expect MPs to be more clued up about the economic, political and international consequences of us leaving the EU than the vast majority of the population. It's their job to study these things.
I wouldn't expect them to know more than me about my specialised subject or to have a better skill set than me in my specialised area, but when it comes to the economy etc. etc. ......
Are you one of those supporters who claims to know far more about running a football club or business than Mike Garlic?

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:12 am

Damo wrote:
Screenshot_20190323-142923_Twitter.jpg
The absolute state of this pregnant man and his foul mouthed offspring

He needs to take a lead from the Brexit side and get some death threats going.

BBC News - 'Cancel Brexit' petition woman receives death threats
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47678275" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:57 am

So after reading the last couple of pages it seems that remainers signing their petitions and going on their marches don't make a jot of difference, but at the same time remainers have managed to put the entire Brexit negotiations into disarray by not accepting the referendum result.

It seems we have a case of 'Schrödinger's remainer' here.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:18 am

Latest cringe-fest available here courtesy of satirical account Titania McGrath:

https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/stat ... 9624146945" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:26 am

If all of the remainers who went sight seeing in London today were allowed to vote twice in the referendum, leave still would have won

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:58 am

It's always a nice idea to indoctrinate children and take them on political marches:

https://twitter.com/AnbAntje/status/1109603479113338880" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brexit apparently an issue not just for children but for Irishchildren (who are also allowed to swear in public):

https://twitter.com/OFOCNI/status/1109538229445947392" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Time for another cringey song from some nice middle class people:

https://twitter.com/footbalIfights/stat ... 9372166145" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Since when did it become acceptable to be so openly profane in public?

https://twitter.com/lgbtvelour/status/1 ... 9360246784" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Haha! Here's our old favourite Brexit girl feeling truly at home with her own kind:

https://twitter.com/search?q=Brexit&src=tren" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And on and on.

There is seemingly a million of these embarrassing images.

But there isn't 17.4 million of them.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:02 am

Can't get enough of these songs...

https://twitter.com/search?q=Brexit&src=tren" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

*****

https://twitter.com/AEHALL1983/status/1 ... 3492658177" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:04 am

Did anyone currently living in Burnley attend the march calling for a new referendum yesterday?

Was there a bus organized from Burnley?

Would love to know how many went down from Burnley, if there was anything organized at all.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:30 am

Darthlaw wrote:Im convicted whatever happens next is going to be bad for the UK. This is it now, we have two options:

Leave the EU, preserve confidence in the democratic process of the UK whilst damaging the UK economy. The degree of damage dictated by the nature of our exit.

Remain in the EU via revocation of article 50 or a second referendum - destroy confidence in our democracy but mitigate damage done to the economy whilst retaining current EU veto rights. Simultaneously we’ll have shown our dependence on the EU allowing carte Blanche for any future decisions made by them.

Also we set a precedent that future referendums may be ignored.

We’re fecked, either way.

Yep, that's the main takeaway from the whole sorry thing and it isn't over yet.

The only sensible option (especially for the Tory party) is to say "sorry, we can't make it work" and revoke article 50 and deal with the mess.

Instead, by continuing to cling onto it we may possibly see the end of May as PM this week and a split in the party over the coming weeks with the final outcome of it being scrapped anyway.

Brexit died weeks ago, you will, at best, get a soft-Brexit where the UK becomes a trading colony of the EU (so much for taking back control) which will only be done to appease the idiots who voted for it.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:38 am

Mala591 wrote:Indicative votes (my) predicted result:

Customs union - Yes
Single market - No
Freedom from ECJ rules/interference - Yes
Independent immigration policy - Yes
Independent agricultural policy - Yes
Independent fisheries policy - Yes

Being the worlds fifth largest economy should allow us a certain amount of cherry picking so why don't we just inform the EU that these are our requirements for leaving.

Already tried that 1, Cameron tried to negotiate concessions before all this kicked off, you'd get more flexibility from a steel girder.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:53 am

aggi wrote:He needs to take a lead from the Brexit side and get some death threats going.

BBC News - 'Cancel Brexit' petition woman receives death threats
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47678275" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is that the same woman who was inciting others to "shoot May"?

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:01 am

The remainer march wasn't the only march whilst everyone is being distracted by pointless exercises others in Europe are trying to protect our freedoms that the EU dictatorship are bringing in ..

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/0 ... gulations/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:33 am

And of course we're into the 14th or 15th week of the gilets jaunes / yellow jackets movement in France with no sign of it slowing down.

You get quite used to the smell of tear gas in the air.

Vive la france!

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:56 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:So after reading the last couple of pages it seems that remainers signing their petitions and going on their marches don't make a jot of difference, but at the same time remainers have managed to put the entire Brexit negotiations into disarray by not accepting the referendum result.

It seems we have a case of 'Schrödinger's remainer' here.

You have a case of a polar extreme outlook.

The opposition to any point can sign petitions and voice their opposition but it shouldn’t make a jot of difference to the democratic decision that has been made. If we’re going to start changing decisions made by 75% of the population because 2% March on London or 6% (apparently) sign an online petition, then we’re really in trouble. After all the petition, based on 4m signatures all likely being previous remain voters, has only garnered 1 in four of those who voted remain last time. Arguably that means the other three have accepted the result. In crude figures, approx 29m of those who voted last time do not want a second referendum. So why are we even entertaining the concept?

Equally, if you can’t see that attention placed on these protestations has even slightly undermined negotiations (as a second referendum is in the interests of the EU), then I’d suggest you’re being very naive. It’s not disarray by any means but it’s certainly strengthened those who we are negotiating against. I suppose it doesn’t make your point as well if you don’t push it to the polar extreme though.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:09 am

Brexit backers

Rowls is posting.

Rowls is posting er, "hilarious" stuff

That only means one thing.

Brexit is going really, really, really badly

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:17 am

aggi wrote:He needs to take a lead from the Brexit side and get some death threats going.

BBC News - 'Cancel Brexit' petition woman receives death threats
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47678275" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes but some remainers were swearing in public, in front of children, so it’s swings and roundabouts really.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:18 am

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:Yep, that's the main takeaway from the whole sorry thing and it isn't over yet.

The only sensible option (especially for the Tory party) is to say "sorry, we can't make it work" and revoke article 50 and deal with the mess.

Instead, by continuing to cling onto it we may possibly see the end of May as PM this week and a split in the party over the coming weeks with the final outcome of it being scrapped anyway.

Brexit died weeks ago, you will, at best, get a soft-Brexit where the UK becomes a trading colony of the EU (so much for taking back control) which will only be done to appease the idiots who voted for it.

If it means the end of the Tories then at least they'll have been something positive to come out of the whole, embarrassing mess.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:21 am

OMG. Hammond when shown a list of the 7 options does not rule out a second referendum. We now know why May never had a chance as PM. It's obvious that he wants a very soft brexit if any. Disgraceful performance.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:26 am

I think it's a pretty good if predictable performance.
You won. Are you not enjoying it ?

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:28 am

He seems determined to break up his party.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:40 am

Rowls wrote:It's always a nice idea to indoctrinate children and take them on political marches:

https://twitter.com/AnbAntje/status/1109603479113338880" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brexit apparently an issue not just for children but for Irishchildren (who are also allowed to swear in public):

https://twitter.com/OFOCNI/status/1109538229445947392" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

.

I would have thought that Irish (children) had more to be concerned about with this process than most, and if you think the Irish shouldn't be involved, then what's all this about May being dependent on the DUP to get anything through Parliament?
NI remains an integral part of the UK - for now at least.
Edit:
Substantial majority for remain in NI at the referendum

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:41 am

Remainers' new mantra for (none) democracy.

What do we want
Let the people decide
What do we want
Revoke Article 50 now