Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:48 am

Seems like a few people marching has really triggered some of our resident Brexiteers.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:03 am

Nigel Farage saying the deal is worse than the current one, and a two minute clip in which he comes out of really, really, really well

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/03/22/ni ... brilliant/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:08 am

How referendums should be conducted - a good thread

https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status ... 4876178432" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:26 am

Well spotted, Lancaster - the most intelligent contribution on this thread so far - after 5,302 attempts we finally got there.
Putting the cart before the horse was never going to work.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:39 am

Yeah, we appear to still be suffering from the inability to learn from any other country.

Yes, we are the mother of all parliaments, but still have so much to learn.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:41 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Yeah, we appear to still be suffering from the inability to learn from any other country.

Yes, we are the mother of all parliaments, but still have so much to learn.

The Mother of Parliaments seems to be having a funny turn.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:45 am

The Mother of Parliaments seems to be having a funny turn.

She's defo smacked of her tits on something at the moment

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:05 am

.....

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:28 am

CombatClaret wrote:The correct answer was not to ask the public a binary question on an incredibly complex, multi-leveled and nuanced situation. One which even the Minister for Brexit can't comprehend (see Dover/Calais).

Hi Combat, catching up on last night's debate. So, no binary quaestion because it was complex? Is that a proposal that the question should have had multiple choices, or required a multipart response? Or, are you suggesting that the electorate should not have been asked?

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:34 am

If our North West LABOUR MPs want us to stay in the customs union and May's deal includes this possibility/probability then why won't they support her withdrawal agreement ?

Surely they can't still be playing party politics games putting the desire for a general election before our extremely fragile national democracy.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:36 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:How referendums should be conducted - a good thread

https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status ... 4876178432" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The funny thing is that people like JRM actually suggested that before the 2016 referendum. They suggested two referendums, one at the start of the process which would see if we even wanted the process to begin in the first place (i suspect the answer would've been more decisively "yes" than "leave") and then a second referendum once the deal had been hashed out. And there's absolutely nothing stopping us from still doing that.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:37 am

Surely a general election with MP’s standing on a platform of what they actually believe in would align Parlaiment with the Public.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:14 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Combat, catching up on last night's debate. So, no binary quaestion because it was complex? Is that a proposal that the question should have had multiple choices, or required a multipart response? Or, are you suggesting that the electorate should not have been asked?

Repost from above:
I'll let someone else more eloquent answer what was wrong and what should have happened.

https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status ... 4876178432" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:16 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:Surely a general election with MP’s standing on a platform of what they actually believe in would align Parlaiment with the Public.

Lol. So cute.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:42 pm

Excellent performance from Steve Barclay on andrew marr this morning. He is learning fast.

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:20 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Nigel Farage saying the deal is worse than the current one, and a two minute clip in which he comes out of really, really, really well

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/03/22/ni ... brilliant/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He didn’t get owned he just told the truth Mays (really the EUs) deal is worse than staying in that’s why it’s gonna be no deal ..

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:22 pm

SmudgetheClaret wrote:He didn’t get owned he just told the truth Mays (really the EUs) deal is worse than staying in that’s why it’s gonna be no deal ..

Got rekt. He made the argument for remaining in the EU instead of accepting May's deal and when that was pointed out to him he was left with just a dumb look on his fish-face.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:29 pm

His inability to even attempt to listen to what others were saying tells you everything you need to know about this moron.
Pig ignorant and only interested in himself. Very Ringo-esque.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:34 pm

I can't remember who it was, but someone once called Farage a bollock-faced foghorn of ignorance, and to this day it's the most accurate description I've ever heard.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:37 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Lol. So cute.

oh..... so condescending.

A referendum is a Representative democratic Government allowing Direct Democracy on exceptional issues.

MP's standing in leave constituencies, after the referendum, openly campaigning to uphold their electorates wishes but knowingly intending to subvert democracy is clearly more of a reasoning for a new GE than there is for a 2nd referendum.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:41 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:oh..... so condescending.

A referendum is a Representative democratic Government allowing Direct Democracy on exceptional issues.

MP's standing in leave constituencies, after the referendum, openly campaigning to uphold their electorates wishes but knowingly intending to subvert democracy is clearly more of a reasoning for a new GE than there is for a 2nd referendum.

It's a shame you misunderstood my post, or took it much more personally than intended. I was just saying it was cute that you think our politicians would stand on a platform they believed in.

But hey, if you want to take it as a personal attack and attack me right back then by all means, you go girl!

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:58 pm

On the same level I've hardly savaged you with the word condescending.... natural to respond though.

and 'you go girl' is inflammatory too and you know it.

If your Mum's not come back with everything you asked for in the shopping, don't take it out on me.

I'm aware that my post comes across as a little naive & Utopian but maybe it's ridiculous that we accept deceit in politics that would likely lead to legal actions in the real world.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:11 pm

I do genuinely wonder how many people that just think May's deal should be accepted to avoid a No deal actually realise that the EU have refused to do any deals before the withdrawal agreement is accepted and crucially the 39 Billion payment schedule is activated.
So there are no deals with EU that are actually done and the ones with the rest of the world will be much harder to do in the limbo of Mays deal than in a clean break.

By the way Farage has said quite openly that we'd be better off as we were, with MEPs in place, than half in half out with Mays deal.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:31 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:On the same level I've hardly savaged you with the word condescending.... natural to respond though.

and 'you go girl' is inflammatory too and you know it.

If your Mum's not come back with everything you asked for in the shopping, don't take it out on me.

I'm aware that my post comes across as a little naive & Utopian but maybe it's ridiculous that we accept deceit in politics that would likely lead to legal actions in the real world.

Oh, absolutely "you go girl" is intended to be sarcastic. It's a fun saying.

Any btw, you're absolutely right that it's ridiculous that we accept deceit in politics, but for the last two or three years i've been told that it doesn't matter and that a referendum result should be allowed to stand despite the deceit.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:06 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Oh, absolutely "you go girl" is intended to be sarcastic. It's a fun saying.

Any btw, you're absolutely right that it's ridiculous that we accept deceit in politics, but for the last two or three years i've been told that it doesn't matter and that a referendum result should be allowed to stand despite the deceit.

What deceit? A rigged up system specifically targeting 1 side & more or less ignoring the other shortcomings.

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:42 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Got rekt. He made the argument for remaining in the EU instead of accepting May's deal and when that was pointed out to him he was left with just a dumb look on his fish-face.

They are **** scared about him going back to Brussels and they should be! hey going well with Mueller report pal WOOP WOOP

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:46 pm

No one's scared of Farage. Farage is scared that his dream of a isolationist Britain won't come to pass because the public has seen his scam exactly for what it is. And so are you.

As for the Mueller Report. If it exonerates Trump then why are his lackies calling for it to be "burned"? Why has Trump not tweeted in 24 hours? Why is the AG not going to give it to congress? You'd think if it proved Trump's innocence then he'd be crowing about it. But he's not. He's even more frightened than you and your fellow fascists.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:51 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:I do genuinely wonder how many people that just think May's deal should be accepted to avoid a No deal actually realise that the EU have refused to do any deals before the withdrawal agreement is accepted and crucially the 39 Billion payment schedule is activated.
So there are no deals with EU that are actually done and the ones with the rest of the world will be much harder to do in the limbo of Mays deal than in a clean break.

By the way Farage has said quite openly that we'd be better off as we were, with MEPs in place, than half in half out with Mays deal.

Exactly that’s similar to the way I see it, it’s a joke it seriously makes you wonder what they’ve actually been doing going on for nearly 3 years, all this could have easily been completed within 6mths maximum & the deals with the rest of the world should already have been forged & we shouldn’t be tit arsing about with a bodged up plan.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:53 pm

I think after the forthcoming euro elections the EU will lurch to the right so certain things people voted to leave for may well be addressed at source.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politi ... ction/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:16 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:Surely a general election with MP’s standing on a platform of what they actually believe in would align Parlaiment with the Public.

Don't you think that's a bit naive?
General elections aren't fought on single issues.
Supposing your "hard brexit" candidate also favoured (e.g.) privatising the NHS, and a whole series of other policies that you were totally opposed to, whilst the "soft brexit" candidate's other policies matched quite closely with yours, and whilst simultaneously you agreed with virtually everything that the "remain" candidate stood for, (except remaining)?
Not so straightforward is it?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:32 pm

Remember when the demonstrations for the initial referendum had this kind of turnout?

https://streamable.com/sqf5h" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No, me neither.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:02 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Remember when the demonstrations for the initial referendum had this kind of turnout?

https://streamable.com/sqf5h" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No, me neither.

Only a few hundred thousand less people than leave beat remain by

pushpinpussy · Post by **pushpinpussy** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:06 pm

Brexit's been going on so long, even the McCanns are now wondering when the **** it will be over.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:58 pm

Damo wrote:Only a few hundred thousand less people than leave beat remain by

When Man Utd only get 70k attendance figures do you think that means there are only 70k Man Utd fans?

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:01 pm

Brexit: What's the f**k is going on?

Jonathan Pie

Mar 22, 2019

"By taking back control the UK has shown that it's out of control."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... IL2XwSkFJQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Comments: Worth a browse.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:11 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:When Man Utd only get 70k attendance figures do you think that means there are only 70k Man Utd fans?

That's exactly the kind of nonsensicle analogy I was expecting Charlie

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:21 pm

You won, get over it....

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:28 pm

Damo wrote:That's exactly the kind of nonsensicle analogy I was expecting Charlie

It's a perfectly adequate analogy. You're pretending that those who attend the march are the only ones who support its cause.

It's only "nonsensical" to you because you're dishonest. You actually understand the analogy perfectly well and know you cannot refute it on its merits, so you don't even try.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:30 pm

bfcjg wrote:I think after the forthcoming euro elections the EU will lurch to the right so certain things people voted to leave for may well be addressed at source.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politi ... ction/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course - the EU could very well become more right leaning (or more left leaning - depending on how elections go). A range of parties stand in all countries, but for it to fully go more right wing you’d also need right wing parties to gain voices within the national legislatures (and more preferably for you within national governments). This would ensure more of the legislation put before the EU parliament is right leaning. This is why Poland’s and Hungary’s right wing governments aren’t looking at leaving the EU, but instead trying to reform it from within. And this is also why it’s a complete nonsense to say “the EU is undemocratic”

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:39 pm

bfcjg wrote:I think after the forthcoming euro elections the EU will lurch to the right so certain things people voted to leave for may well be addressed at source.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politi ... ction/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How will that happen? The EU is a dictatorship that the man on the street can’t influence surely!

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:45 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:It's a perfectly adequate analogy. You're pretending that those who attend the march are the only ones who support its cause.

It's only "nonsensical" to you because you're dishonest. You actually understand the analogy perfectly well and know you cannot refute it on its merits, so you don't even try.

I didnt pretend that at all.
I was highlighting that 1 million people is a huge number when it comes to remain support, but a tiny fraction when it comes to the referendum result.
You probably knew that though right?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:52 pm

Damo wrote:I didnt pretend that at all.
I was highlighting that 1 million people is a huge number when it comes to remain support, but a tiny fraction when it comes to the referendum result.
You probably knew that though right?

And 70k is a tiny fraction of Man Utd's support. That doesn't mean there isn't massive support for Man Utd. Just like 1 million people marching for something doesn't mean there isn't massive support for it.

When have 1 million people ever marched for anything in the UK? Fewer people marched for the original referendum and we had a referendum.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:06 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:And 70k is a tiny fraction of Man Utd's support. That doesn't mean there isn't massive support for Man Utd. Just like 1 million people marching for something doesn't mean there isn't massive support for it.

When have 1 million people ever marched for anything in the UK? Fewer people marched for the original referendum and we had a referendum.

Did you post a picture of your slippers on Twitter in support? Is that what you are saying?

virtue signaller

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:10 pm

Damo wrote:Did you post a picture of your slippers on Twitter in support? Is that what you are saying?

virtue signaller

Oh look. Yet another accusation of virtue signalling from someone who can't form a coherent argument against the merits of someone elses argument.

At least try to make this a challenge for me. Please.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:13 pm

This is what it looks like when you play both sides, Damo. First you say that going on the march is irrelevant because, well, you haven't explained why it's irrelevant exactly, it's just the basic argument you've made. And THEN you criticise me for not going on the march.

You can't form an actual argument, can you? You can't stop contradicting your own logic. No wonder you support Leave, you're incapable of thinking critically.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:19 pm

Not sure where I said the March was irrelevant. I'm sure you will point it out though

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:20 pm

Damo wrote:Not sure where I said the March was irrelevant. I'm sure you will point it out though

It was clearly implied by your dismissal of it based on its numbers.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:08 pm

Damo wrote:Did you post a picture of your slippers on Twitter in support? Is that what you are saying?

virtue signaller

Surely it’s a bigger worry that the numbers were so big yet no remainers you know on here went.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:12 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:It was clearly implied by your dismissal of it based on its numbers.

I'm quite happy to admit that the numbers were huge.
I just said they were not as huge as the amount leave won by.
Looking forward to you admitting that an extra 1million people getting off their backsides to March to the polling station was huge too

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:14 pm

martin_p wrote:Surely it’s a bigger worry that the numbers were so big yet no remainers you know on here went.

Not at all. I know most of the remainers on here wouldn't do anything so pro-active about something they are so passionate about