Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

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dsr
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:30 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I am not sure why people go on about the Norway deal. I spent 6 months working with a great bloke from Norway and we exchanged notes and had many debates.
We did disagree on what the UK should do, he said the UK should stay in, I disagreed then and still do.

However the Norway deal is a bad deal indeed. They have to accept all EU laws, free movement etc. We worked out that they pay the same amount per person to be in . However they get no money back in grants etc.
So we would be better staying in than a Norway deal.
The Norway deal was a stitch-up by their politicians, who wanted to be in the EU but were voted down twice. So they came up with as close a deal as possible to being in, but without technically being in. Which, surprise surprise, is one of the options Remainers are happy with.

Somehow Remainers (at least, some of the more vocal ones on here) have convinced themselves that people who voted to leave didn't really want to leave, they just wanted to appear to leave; and that all Remainer politicians were honest but mistaken while all Brexiter politicians were lying; and that every single Brexit voter believed every word the politicians told us while Remain voters (being, to a man, clever than us) knew they were lying and so voted the other way.

The Remain campaign since the referendum can be summed up in 7 words: "I am right because I am right". They brook no argument. And they are very much in favour of the chaos we have had over the last two years, because they think it is better than actually having to face up to the fact that they have been telling us since day 1: that the EU will not give us a fair deal.
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dsr
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by dsr » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:32 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I also expect the EU will demand a massive amount of money per year for a free trade deal.

What I hope we don’t do is end up still being the second biggest contributor getting little in return. We will have to pay for a free trade deal I just hope we have enough left to replace EU subsidies to Farmers etc.
Why? The EU wants to charge us for a free trade deal because they want to be as nasty as possible, to discourage other countries from leaving. Should we be helping them out?

A free trade deal is mutually beneficial, and no payment either way should be needed. Do we choose to screw the Isle of Man for huge contributions for free trade, just because we can? Were we on course to build a big wall south of Scotland and do them over good and proper on trade, just because we were bigger than them, if they had chosen to leave? No to both.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by aggi » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:50 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:I believe that the NHS is doomed unless we control Brexit related issues, so Brexit must be honoured first IMO.
I'm curious what you mean by this as there's a lot of interpretations.

Is it that we need to stop spending time (and money) on the Brexit process and get back to running the country. Is it the (largely disproved) money that's going to the EU could go to the NHS? Immigration? Something else?

I can't really see what the NHS issues are that couldn't be solved by our own government grasping the nettle and committing to a long-term reform plan (ideally with cross-party consensus so it doesn't get binned after the next election).

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:51 pm

They charge Norway for one, so I expect them to do the same to us.

Not that I agree we should pay, but I expect us to have to.

That’s why they want 39billion now for the withdrawal agreement, as the British public would be in uproar at the cost of a WA and free trade deal at the same time.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Greenmile » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:52 pm

dsr wrote:The Norway deal was a stitch-up by their politicians, who wanted to be in the EU but were voted down twice. So they came up with as close a deal as possible to being in, but without technically being in. Which, surprise surprise, is one of the options Remainers are happy with.

Somehow Remainers (at least, some of the more vocal ones on here) have convinced themselves that people who voted to leave didn't really want to leave, they just wanted to appear to leave; and that all Remainer politicians were honest but mistaken while all Brexiter politicians were lying; and that every single Brexit voter believed every word the politicians told us while Remain voters (being, to a man, clever than us) knew they were lying and so voted the other way.

The Remain campaign since the referendum can be summed up in 7 words: "I am right because I am right". They brook no argument. And they are very much in favour of the chaos we have had over the last two years, because they think it is better than actually having to face up to the fact that they have been telling us since day 1: that the EU will not give us a fair deal.
A whole field full of straw men, there.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:23 pm

Greenmile wrote:A whole field full of straw men, there.
Could be more constructive breaking his points down & countering thereon, it takes effort than just a straw man, or maybe it's a good post & you have nothing of substance to counter with.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:24 pm

An interesting outlook on history over time in the EU.

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.

OUT OF EUROPE we need to be out of it
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by evensteadiereddie » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:28 pm

Indeed, being in the EU caused all those things to happen............... :lol:

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:39 pm

aggi wrote:I'm curious what you mean by this as there's a lot of interpretations.

Is it that we need to stop spending time (and money) on the Brexit process and get back to running the country. Is it the (largely disproved) money that's going to the EU could go to the NHS? Immigration? Something else?

I can't really see what the NHS issues are that couldn't be solved by our own government grasping the nettle and committing to a long-term reform plan (ideally with cross-party consensus so it doesn't get binned after the next election).
Well the Brexit delay isn't helping anything.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:43 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:An interesting outlook on history over time in the EU.

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.

OUT OF EUROPE we need to be out of it
I haven't seen this on our impartial TV Stations

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndyClaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:57 pm

Well, well, well....

https://twitter.com/FullFact/status/1110225621731500032" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by hampsteadclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:05 pm

5407..thats a very good post lowbankclaret..

You sound like a chap that has some good experience of real world business issues.

i hope that plenty on here have a read of your post.

I have long thought that we get less from the EU than we put in...and I just don't mean the financial side of membership...I have looked at it and read about it, and that's my view - better out than in.

The division and disunity that this has caused is almost beyond belief.

it's gonna be an interesting week - just how numbered are her days? - i may open a TBHE book ?

Dumping her or a GE are really not good ideas at this point - for anyone.

Those suggesting a long postponement [if we ask for it] 6 months, 12 months, 2 years ? Well everyone knows what the real aim of that nonsense is, no need to comment. I wish there was more honesty about that one.


** as Eddie suggests...that roll call of bad economic news, isn't ALL the fault of the EU - it is a major player though.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by summitclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:20 pm

I don't normally support the Sun, but its front page editorial available on the bbc website was absolutely spot on today.

In essence May needs to say she will resign on 23 may and she will go down in history for getting the Brexit through despite a remainer HOC.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:25 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
And that's hypocrisy at its finest. James Dyson fully supports Brexit but is quite happy to use EU money to support his own company!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by South West Claret. » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:41 pm

summitclaret wrote:I don't normally support the Sun, but its front page editorial available on the bbc website was absolutely spot on today.

In essence May needs to say she will resign on 23 may and she will go down in history for getting the Brexit through despite a remainer HOC.
Can’t happen because we are staying in the EU.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by hampsteadclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:41 pm

Spijed wrote:And that's hypocrisy at its finest. James Dyson fully supports Brexit but is quite happy to use EU money to support his own company!

Are you sure about that?
I really have no idea.


I would have thought that business operations owned by James Dyson would be pretty successful enterprises and would not need EU support.

He is a very wealthy man also isn't he?

Have you got a source for that?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:13 pm

summitclaret wrote:I don't normally support the Sun, but its front page editorial available on the bbc website was absolutely spot on today.

In essence May needs to say she will resign on 23 may and she will go down in history for getting the Brexit through despite a remainer HOC.
So the backstop isn’t the problem then?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Spijed » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:19 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:Are you sure about that?
I really have no idea.


I would have thought that business operations owned by James Dyson would be pretty successful enterprises and would not need EU support.

He is a very wealthy man also isn't he?

Have you got a source for that?
Was just quoting what Lowbank said.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by AndrewJB » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:29 pm

dsr wrote:Why? The EU wants to charge us for a free trade deal because they want to be as nasty as possible, to discourage other countries from leaving. Should we be helping them out?

A free trade deal is mutually beneficial, and no payment either way should be needed. Do we choose to screw the Isle of Man for huge contributions for free trade, just because we can? Were we on course to build a big wall south of Scotland and do them over good and proper on trade, just because we were bigger than them, if they had chosen to leave? No to both.
The biggest price we’ll pay is in not having a seat at the top table with input on major decisions. Any nominal price we pay - probably to be an associate member to various crime, research, agricultural, medical, etc parts of the EU will be nothing compared with this. This is what taking back control looks like.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by TonbridgeClaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:32 pm

AndyClaret wrote:Well, well, well....

https://twitter.com/FullFact/status/1110225621731500032" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not really surprised. I see that the official figure for the anti-brexit march in October was 250,000, not the 700,000 that was claimed.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Murger » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:44 pm

TonbridgeClaret wrote:Not really surprised. I see that the official figure for the anti-brexit march in October was 250,000, not the 700,000 that was claimed.
Could tell a mile off there wasn't a million there.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:04 pm

TonbridgeClaret wrote:Not really surprised. I see that the official figure for the anti-brexit march in October was 250,000, not the 700,000 that was claimed.
At least we can be sure how many were on Farage’s march to London. No estimating required!
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:07 pm

martin_p wrote:At least we can be sure how many were on Farage’s march to London. No estimating required!
Nearly the same number as the ‘Grand Wizards’ who turned up at Chequers yesterday!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by evensteadiereddie » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:13 pm

I counted them using both hands - twelve ! ;)

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Tall Paul » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:50 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:5407..thats a very good post lowbankclaret..

You sound like a chap that has some good experience of real world business issues.

i hope that plenty on here have a read of your post.
I've read it a few times in various different places. Most if it is ********.

OK, maybe ******** is a little unfair as quite a lot if it is true, apart from the parts about EU grants funding these things.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by hampsteadclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:58 pm

I guess that those walking down from Sunderland have done about 25 times more miles already than those who turned up for the jolly in London on Saturday... a lovely walk round the West End in the Spring sunshine, a few selfies and coffees/snacks and heading for the boozer or Zizzi’s by 2.00 pm. Top Day !

Any good estimates for the ‘Sunderland ‘marcher’s numbers when they get to Greater London and onwards..?

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:03 pm

I think the Gov are going to lose this first vote, maybe by just two votes.

Cabinet minister has resigned apparently to vote against.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:09 pm

Zizzi’s another one on Hampsteads hit list.

Like a cry for help.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by hampsteadclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:11 pm

You’re so limited in a variety of skill-sets.

Any estimates as in my question - it was for you..?

Or are you worried about looking daft again..?
Last edited by hampsteadclaret on Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:13 pm

AndrewJB wrote:The biggest price we’ll pay is in not having a seat at the top table with input on major decisions. Any nominal price we pay - probably to be an associate member to various crime, research, agricultural, medical, etc parts of the EU will be nothing compared with this. This is what taking back control looks like.
How do those major decisions affect the pound in the pocket of our basic rate taxpayers? Specifically?

As pointed about above, much of our infrastructure and business is now overseas owned, so money must flow overseas by definition and decisions are being made by those without the interests of the U.K. foremost. We have flatlining wages below inflation (until this year). House prices are unaffordable. Many jobs are unattractive, especially zero hours ones.

So, pray tell, how has being involved in those major decisions for the last 10 years helped us?
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Well that was a big defeat.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:16 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:How do those major decisions affect the pound in the pocket of our basic rate taxpayers? Specifically?

As pointed about above, much of our infrastructure and business is now overseas owned, so money must flow overseas by definition and decisions are being made by those without the interests of the U.K. foremost. We have flatlining wages below inflation (until this year). House prices are unaffordable. Many jobs are unattractive, especially zero hours ones.

So, pray tell, how has being involved in those major decisions for the last 10 years helped us?

Good point, I concur.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:16 pm

Few more government resignations or sackings on the way!

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:18 pm

They are going to overturn the will of the people.

Could be GE or a 2nd vote after asking the EU for a long extension.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:22 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Good point, I concur.
I’d love to be “all in” to remain in the EU. I live by the adage that if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it.

But it is broke. Irrefutably. Only the selfish, not thinking of the wider country, can claim it isn’t.

And no, it isn’t all to do with the EU, but much of it is, and changing it will change the mindset and make us more self sufficient in all kinds of ways.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:22 pm

Has to be a General Election you would think.
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:32 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:They are going to overturn the will of the people.

Could be GE or a 2nd vote after asking the EU for a long extension.
I told you weeks ago, Brexit is dead.

By hanging on to it the Tory party is only destroying itself.

Every choice she makes is wrong, they could have adopted that amendment tonight but instead she kept banging on about accepting her deal, a deal she cannot put forward because it doesn't have support.

Theresa May is the worst Prime Minister this country has ever had, thank god she'll be gone by the end of the week, possibly even the end of tonight.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:32 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:Well that was a big defeat.
329 to 302 out of a total of 631 votes Cast
Described yes as a heavy defeat
52% to 48%
Is it just me.............
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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:34 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:I told you weeks ago, Brexit is dead.

By hanging on to it the Tory party is only destroying itself.

Every choice she makes is wrong, they could have adopted that amendment tonight but instead she kept banging on about accepting her deal, a deal she cannot put forward because it doesn't have support.

Theresa May is the worst Prime Minister this country has ever had, thank god she'll be gone by the end of the week, possibly even the end of tonight.
Oh no it isn't

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by hampsteadclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:37 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Has to be a General Election you would think.

You just heard that on Sky News, when several commentators mentioned it !

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:44 pm

Amazingly I can think for myself as my post suggested?? What are the other options no way she will call a 2nd referendum.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by hampsteadclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:00 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Amazingly I can think for myself as my post suggested?? What are the other options no way she will call a 2nd referendum.
I was only jesting - sorry.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Buxtonclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:02 pm

REVOLUTION IN THE HOUSE! :o

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by nil_desperandum » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:03 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:329 to 302 out of a total of 631 votes Cast
Described yes as a heavy defeat
52% to 48%
Is it just me.............
Fair point, but in Parliamentary terms 30 of the governments own MPs voting against the whip is massive.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by BleedingClaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:07 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Fair point, but in Parliamentary terms 30 of the governments own MPs voting against the whip is massive.
1269501 people is quite big too

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:08 pm

*logs in*

reads
And no, it isn’t all to do with the EU, but much of it is, and changing it will change the mindset and make us more self sufficient in all kinds of ways.
Sighs

*logs off*

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:10 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:How do those major decisions affect the pound in the pocket of our basic rate taxpayers? Specifically?

As pointed about above, much of our infrastructure and business is now overseas owned, so money must flow overseas by definition and decisions are being made by those without the interests of the U.K. foremost. We have flatlining wages below inflation (until this year). House prices are unaffordable. Many jobs are unattractive, especially zero hours ones.

So, pray tell, how has being involved in those major decisions for the last 10 years helped us?
Excellent post, it hasn’t helped at all, if anything we are going backwards, not many people anymore feel confident with the idea of the uk being inside of the EU. It’s a suppressed acceptance of a warped notion through fear of change.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by nil_desperandum » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:11 pm

Parliamentary sovereignty eh?
Something remainers have always believed in, and something leavers claimed to be voting for.
We've seen it in action this evening, so hopefully everyone is happy now, but Suella doesn't seem too happy on Newsnight just now.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by nil_desperandum » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:13 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:1269501 people is quite big too
Yes - but not comparable.

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Re: Brexit: The Naked Truth

Post by martin_p » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:21 pm

Finally managed to find something that defines what Brexit is all about. A ‘manifesto’ you might say.



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